How good was Paul Scholes?

SirMattBugsby

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paulscholes18 said:
One of those great players along with Xavi & Pirlo that already knew what they were going to do with the ball before they got it, unlike watching us now, don't think they know what to do with the ball when they have it let alone before they get.
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Interesting you mention these three. I saved an article a year back which compared their qualities. It basically said the three of them were very similar in style and level but developed some skills more than others according to the league they played in.

https://m.sportskeeda.com/football/xavi-pirlo-scholes-strangers-birth-brothers-nature
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Sammyjunn said:
Better than Kroos, around Modric' level I think.
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Very honest and probably accurate.

Though I'll qualify that and say I rate Modric as high as Pirlo, Xavi, anyone really.

All of those players all did EXACTLY what was needed for their respective teams. Pirlo perhaps being the most impressive as he played different roles for different clubs.

It's a shame that Alonso 'wasted' so much time at Liverpool. If he hadn't we'd probably put him alongside that calibre of player rather than against Carrick and all those on that rung of the ladder.
 

RamblingRebel

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Some of the best midfielders of the last 20 years (Zidane, Xavi, ect) habe all one time or another said Scholes was/is the best or thier favorite player, or hero.

Dont matter what people on the internet say, but when guys like these are saying it, there must be something in it.
 

cyberman

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The fact nobody today bar Modric and maybe Kross could lace his boots should tell us how good he was.
We really were spoiled with the quality of last generations midfield stars. Now we have Pogba standing out because he isnt a DM or a wannabe number 10.
 

ike

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best midfielder of his generation.

possibly worst pundit as well.
now that I think of it his TV commentary is as bad as his tackling was. Often rash, misdirected and out of now where.
still love him for it though! :D
 

Toad

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Definitely the best midfielder of his generation. Even Xavi and Zidane themselves said so.

Out of curiosity, which player most resembles Scholes in today's game, any thoughts?
 

RedFish

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Well when British teams were crap in Europe there. were only a handful of players that transcended that general perception. Scholes was one of them.
 

johanovic

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Scholes was a genius, there is no doubt about that. His vision and passing was on par with Pirlo and Xavi as they have both stated their admiration for Scholes.
 

jesperjaap

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"The truth of the matter is, scholes was underrated during his playing career & overrated in retirement."

Probably true. Being around so many great players during the majority of his time at the club and being quiet, unassuming and not flashy he probably didnt get the credit or spotlight he deserved until later in his career. Also a travesty Sven Goran Eriksson shifting him over to the left to accomodate Lampard and Gerrard....which never ever worked, leading to his early retirement internationally I think.

I would disagree with somebody earlier in the thread saying he was about Modric level, he was better. However he wasnt quite up there with the likes of Xavi and Zidane
 

Cantona'sCollar

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712 said:
Doesn't get in my best United team post-sixties. Might be on the bench, but not a given. Wasn't first choice for England either.
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Only because England was managed by idiots in that time. He would have started for Spain, Italy, Brasil and Germany.
 

Cantona'sCollar

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712 said:
Maybe, but that's just opinion, you can't prove it. My statement was fact.
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Yeah true, but I think the majority of people will agree that he was totally misused by England. They were playing him left wing, imagine, while people like Pep have said they would sign him over any other player. Plus, it's not like England ever did well in any tournament - the decision to prioritize Gerrard and Lampard over him was never justified because those two never performed well together. They shouldn't be in a midfield 2 together - Gerrard's best games for England came from the right wing, surprisingly, and Lampard was very hot and cold for the national team.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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Cantona'sCollar said:
Yeah true, but I think the majority of people will agree that he was totally misused by England. They were playing him left wing, imagine, while people like Pep have said they would sign him over any other player. Plus, it's not like England ever did well in any tournament - the decision to prioritize Gerrard and Lampard over him was never justified because those two never performed well together. They shouldn't be in a midfield 2 together - Gerrard's best games for England came from the right wing, surprisingly, and Lampard was very hot and cold for the national team.
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Scholes never played well for England. He wasn't put in left wing from the beginning. Owen Hargreaves was the stand out English midfielder in the 02 WC, for example.

Truth is, his renaissance as a bona fide midfield maestro was after the eye surgery. Before that, our midfield was lead by Keane. Scholes was still more of an advanced attacking midfielder with his long range goals at the edge of the box during that period.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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712 said:
Doesn't get in my best United team post-sixties. Might be on the bench, but not a given. Wasn't first choice for England either.
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2 spots to choose from, that doesn't surprise me.

If he's 3rd behind Keane and Robson that's no shame. If you have him behind Butt then that's an issue.
 

Cantona'sCollar

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InfiniteBoredom said:
Scholes never played well for England. He wasn't put in left wing from the beginning. Owen Hargreaves was the stand out English midfielder in the 02 WC, for example.

Truth is, his renaissance as a bona fide midfield maestro was after the eye surgery. Before that, our midfield was lead by Keane. Scholes was still more of an advanced attacking midfielder with his long range goals at the edge of the box during that period.
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He didn't do a lot in an England shirt, but neither did Gerrard and Lampard (relatively) considering they were always started when fit, in their preferred positions. Also, England' style of football was not suited to a player like Paul Scholes - I don't think anyone in the world would argue Hargreaves was even close to Scholes, but he still played better for England than Scholes did. I'm not saying Scholes delivered when he was given the chance, i'm saying that a player of his quality should have been afforded more opportunities and freedom - I believe he would have done so at many other international teams that are better than England.
 

Striker10

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Sammyjunn said:
Better than Kroos, around Modric' level I think.
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I would never swap Scholes for Modric. For me Scholes is underrated. Scholes probably could have been a 15-20 a season goalscorer if he played in the hole all the time. As it was there are few better but personally I think his kind is irreplaceable.

The problem with England is that they were not defined. Managed by people who if you have a name you get in to the detriment of any system. England lacked in key areas also. Never any great winger so they had to put their best midfielder on the left side. Scholes of course was also hampered by missing out on that European Final in 99. A shame really.
 
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RooneyLegend

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Imo he was misused for plenty of his career hence he didn't get his just dues. As a box to box he was great, but not as good as the likes of Keane and Viera who had far bigger engines and could do more particularly defensively. As a sitting mid, controlling games (something we only saw at the latter end of his career) he was pretty damn good, pirlo/xaviesque levels. England though didn't have that kind of midfielder, and even when they did they tended to turn him into an up and down footballer(ask Jamie Redknapp). One of the greatest midfielders we've seen in English football in the past decade. Not ever superstar levels like a Zidane or Gascoigne who captured the imagination, but a hell of a player none the less.
 

Solver

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Sammyjunn said:
Better than Kroos, around Modric' level I think.
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Not so sure about Modric- I personally think Modric blossomed a bit later than the ginger one. Don't get me wrong- Modric is extremely good but LATELY. For sure I am biased but Scholesy was well ahead of his time and the while the word 'legend' is unfairly cast on some, for Scholesy there's no more deserving fella
 

Solver

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Toad said:
But what about Henderson?
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Lallana is skilful and is perhaps a better bet but to compare Henderson to Scholes in desperation on Liverpool supporters' part. Henderson is afraid of receiving the ball in tight spaces and berates players who pass to him there, is afraid of making a mistake and hardly ever plays the ball forward or takes risks with anything. Ridiculous comparison if you ask me
 

Trigg

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The fact that he reinvented himself from a second striker to controlling playmaker says a lot about Scholes.

He was magnificent. Best player for United since I began following them, with the exception of Ronaldo and possibly Giggs.

Shit pundit though ;)
 

mark_a

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Scholes was my favourite player and my later father's. World class. Midfield magician.
 

Toad

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Solver said:
Lallana is skilful and is perhaps a better bet but to compare Henderson to Scholes in desperation on Liverpool supporters' part. Henderson is afraid of receiving the ball in tight spaces and berates players who pass to him there, is afraid of making a mistake and hardly ever plays the ball forward or takes risks with anything. Ridiculous comparison if you ask me
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I was being sarcastic Jesus Christ
 

B20

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RikRuud said:
Ask Zidane.
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He probably would have picked Gerrard ahead of him

"Is he the best in the world? He might not get the attention of [Lionel] Messi and Ronaldo but, yes, I think he just might be," Zidane said. "If you don't have a player like Steven Gerrard, who is the engine room, it can affect the whole team.

"When we were winning league titles and European Cups at Real, I always said Claude Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself, [Luis] Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard.

"He has great passing ability, can tackle and scores goals, but most importantly he gives the players around him confidence and belief. You can't learn that – players like him are just born with that presence."​

Always when it comes to Scholes, the quotes get wheeled out. Far more than any other player. I don't get why united fans feel such a great need to have opinions on this player alone validated by what fecking footballers say. By and large, footballer opinions are worth nothing.
 

2cents

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Love the man but feel he's a bit overrated on this forum. He was never someone Fergie built the team around (Cantona, Keane, RVN, Ronaldo), Barca semi aside he never truly shone in the CL (often a substitute during the 1999 run and taken off during the 2008 final - his best CL showing might have been against Madrid in 2000 or 2003, can't remember which), never really dominated a top CL team. His peak was 2003 (@Eboue by that time it was a few years since he'd been getting dropped for the likes of Butt and Johnsen) playing off RVN. His move back to the deep-lying role helped cement his legendary status but he only had one truly great season in that position (06/07).

He was, however, an absolute joy to watch, the type of technical footballer that the PL really hasn't seen much of over the years.
 
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