There's evidence from South America, China and Egypt that people were playing a sport by kicking a ball (or equivalent around) ages in the past. It was formalised by England but the actual sport has existed all over the world for thousands of years.
Football myths
- Thread starter El cangrejo
- Start date
I'll kick your head around if you carry on with this propaganda. Bloody troublemaker.
1. Vidal and Pirlo made Pogba look good. His best season was without them ( 15/16 ).
2. Netherlands and Spain produced more great player than France.
Platini, Zidane, Ben Barek, Kopa, Fontaine, Henry, Cantona, Giresse, Makelele, Ginola, Tigana, Papin, Desailly, Tresor, Vieira, Deschamps, Trezeguet, Pires, Lizarazu, Petit, Roger Piantoni, Djorkaeff, Ribery , Rocheteau, Angloma, Leboeuf, Evra, Bats, Bossis, Henri Michel, Luis Fernandez, Blanc, Abidal, Barthez, Sagnol, Lama , Benzema and soon Pogba, Varane, Mbappe, Dembele, Martial, Umtiti, Mendy, Rabiot, Tolisso etc
2. Netherlands and Spain produced more great player than France.
Platini, Zidane, Ben Barek, Kopa, Fontaine, Henry, Cantona, Giresse, Makelele, Ginola, Tigana, Papin, Desailly, Tresor, Vieira, Deschamps, Trezeguet, Pires, Lizarazu, Petit, Roger Piantoni, Djorkaeff, Ribery , Rocheteau, Angloma, Leboeuf, Evra, Bats, Bossis, Henri Michel, Luis Fernandez, Blanc, Abidal, Barthez, Sagnol, Lama , Benzema and soon Pogba, Varane, Mbappe, Dembele, Martial, Umtiti, Mendy, Rabiot, Tolisso etc
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Why are you dragging India into this convo? Completely unnecessary jab. And the reasons why India can't field a decent team have already been discussed on this forum.
Pirlo was hugely underrated outside of Italy until his Juve spell. The guy was world class for ths best part of a decade.
Agreed absolutely brilliant footballer for a long time
Spain has only one Ballon d'or for instance. Camacho and Gordillo seem to be considered by some as their greatest left-backs...1. Vidal and Pirlo made Pogba look good. His best season was without them ( 15/16 ).
2. Netherlands and Spain produced more great player than France.
Platini, Zidane, Ben Barek, Kopa, Fontaine, Henry, Cantona, Giresse, Makelele, Ginola, Tigana, Papin, Desailly, Tresor, Vieira, Deschamps, Trezeguet, Pires, Lizarazu, Petit, Roger Piantoni, Djorkaeff, Ribery , Rocheteau, Angloma, Leboeuf, Evra, Bats, Bossis, Henri Michel, Luis Fernandez, Blanc, Abidal, Barthez, Sagnol, Lama , Benzema and soon Pogba, Varane, Mbappe, Dembele, Martial, Umtiti, Mendy, Rabiot, Tolisso etc
We may add some of the following players:
- Def: Thuram, Amoros, evra, candela, joncquet, karembeu, battiston
- Off: Griezmann, Anelka, piantoni, wiltord, giuly
That is crazy revisionism. He was always known as the best deep lying playmaker in the world and there were frequent debates whether he or Xavi were the best midfielder in the game during his Milan days.
Another myth: Ronaldo was the best player at the 2002 world cup.
Nope, that would be Rivaldo.
Nope, that would be Rivaldo.
Could it be a myth that Mourinho has one of the best injury records in managment? With 2 cruciates last season, Shaw, Pogba 3 month hamstring tear supposedly - perhaps this issue needs to be relooked at. In the Lampard days of Chelsea under Jose, he tended go play the same fisrt XI in practically every game of the season. Against Basle you wondered when you saw the first XI why he wasn't resting one or two key players as Fergie usually would have done. I'd say going on past 18 month Jose must have one of the highest records of players getting injured in the game.
Amongst knowledgeable people, yes. In the mainstream neither Pirlo or Xavi got the credit they deserved until the late 2000s and early 2010s.
Pirlo and Xavi got the credit they deserved in their own countries since 2003(pirlo) and 2004(xavi)
Not necessary disagreeing, but I think you've missed to make a list for Netherlands and Spain.2. Netherlands and Spain produced more great player than France.
Platini, Zidane, Ben Barek, Kopa, Fontaine, Henry, Cantona, Giresse, Makelele, Ginola, Tigana, Papin, Desailly, Tresor, Vieira, Deschamps, Trezeguet, Pires, Lizarazu, Petit, Roger Piantoni, Djorkaeff, Ribery , Rocheteau, Angloma, Leboeuf, Evra, Bats, Bossis, Henri Michel, Luis Fernandez, Blanc, Abidal, Barthez, Sagnol, Lama , Benzema and soon Pogba, Varane, Mbappe, Dembele, Martial, Umtiti, Mendy, Rabiot, Tolisso etc
https://www.football-bible.com/soccer-info/who-invented-football.html
gets ready for head kicking.
Back on topic, that Denis Law's goal relegated United. Unfortunately i watched this but i think the Birmingham result was what actually relegated us.
Brazilian have short careers. Using a small group of players to generalize all Brazilians.
Aye, some of them like Donato, Ze Roberto, Roberto Carlos and Rivaldo have had exceptionally long careers.
Has anyone ever proved whether left footers are actually more likely to miss a penalty? Definitely seems like they do miss more often
Allow me to respond in a completely biased way.1. Vidal and Pirlo made Pogba look good. His best season was without them ( 15/16 ).
2. Netherlands and Spain produced more great player than France.
Platini, Zidane, Ben Barek, Kopa, Fontaine, Henry, Cantona, Giresse, Makelele, Ginola, Tigana, Papin, Desailly, Tresor, Vieira, Deschamps, Trezeguet, Pires, Lizarazu, Petit, Roger Piantoni, Djorkaeff, Ribery , Rocheteau, Angloma, Leboeuf, Evra, Bats, Bossis, Henri Michel, Luis Fernandez, Blanc, Abidal, Barthez, Sagnol, Lama , Benzema and soon Pogba, Varane, Mbappe, Dembele, Martial, Umtiti, Mendy, Rabiot, Tolisso etc
Seeing as you put a player like Martial, who has the talent but isnt a "great" player yet imo, in your list. I make the following list:
Ronaldo de Boer, Frank de Boer, Ronald Koeman, Dennis Bergkamp, Marco van Basten, Johan Cruyff, Kik Smits, Johnny Rep, Coen Moulijn, Willem van Hanegem, Arie Haan, Rob Rensebrink, Willy van de Kerkhof, Rene van de Kerkhof, Ruud Gullit, Jaap Stam, Edwin van der Sar, Hans van Breukelen, Piet Kiezer, Arjen Robben, Wesley Sneijder, Robin van Persie, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Virgil van Dijk, Edgar Davids, Clarence Seedorf, Patrick Kluivert, Frank Rijkaard, Johan Neeskens, Rinus Israel, Wim Suurbier, Ruud Krol, Adri van Tiggelen, Wim Kieft, Brian Roy, Aron Winter, Wim Jonk, Gerald Vanenburg, Wim Kieft, Jan Wouters, Barry van Aerle, John van 't Schip, Marc Overmars, Philip Cocu, Giovanni van Bronckhorst, Roy Maakay, Mark van Bommel, Nigel de Jong, Faas Wilkes, Abe Lenstra, Jan van Beveren
I'm sure there are more (more french players too), but I couldnt resist. Dunno about Spain, but I'm not from Spain so I don't care.
Go Holland:
Ginola = "great" player....1. Vidal and Pirlo made Pogba look good. His best season was without them ( 15/16 ).
2. Netherlands and Spain produced more great player than France.
Platini, Zidane, Ben Barek, Kopa, Fontaine, Henry, Cantona, Giresse, Makelele, Ginola, Tigana, Papin, Desailly, Tresor, Vieira, Deschamps, Trezeguet, Pires, Lizarazu, Petit, Roger Piantoni, Djorkaeff, Ribery , Rocheteau, Angloma, Leboeuf, Evra, Bats, Bossis, Henri Michel, Luis Fernandez, Blanc, Abidal, Barthez, Sagnol, Lama , Benzema and soon Pogba, Varane, Mbappe, Dembele, Martial, Umtiti, Mendy, Rabiot, Tolisso etc
There were rumours that Dalglish had developed a bit of a thirst before Hillsborough and that attending all the funerals had a very bad impact on him and he self medicated quite heavily in the aftermath. So maybe some of the "going off the rails" can be attributed to that. He had earned a grudging respect from me until he dived off the deep end with the Suarez saga though.
Quite happy for Souness to take the blame, hated him as a player, a manager and as a pundit so anytime he gets grief is good for me
I'm starting to notice a lot of football becomes myth.
I saw the other day a tweet saying how Fergie was a genius beating Milan 7-2 on agg with the team he had (Carrick, Fletcher, Rooney, Nani) vs. the Milan team they had at the time (Seedorf, Ronaldinho, Pirlo) - when actually at the time everybody expected United to win convincingly. Darren Fletcher was performing better than any Milan midfielder and Rooney was the best striker in the world. The Milan team had done nothing in Europe for a couple of years.
It's become some sort of myth that Ferguson was working miracles with utter shite in his final years, just because they all went on to play shite under Moyes and LVG. The likes of Anderson have been given the status of a laughing stock when actually his first season with United was extremely impressive, and he had many more good spells after that where he was class. I honestly think he's performed better than most Liverpool midfielders over the past decade. Johnny Evans also gets laughed at as though he was shite for United and stole a career at a top club- in 2013 he was our best defender when we won the league.
Another myth is Berbatov at United. People seem to have forgotten how useless he could be and how he was pretty mutch an outcast in his final 18 months with us, having been very frustrating for his first 2 years as well. He only really had a 6 month spell in 2010/11 where he hit the heights expected. I saw some people on Twitter putting him above Rooney and Ruud when ranking United strikers and there is a strange consensus that he is a legend. I suppose the odd moments of genius are what people remember.
There's a lot of myths in relation to World Cups such as Spain being boring when they won it in 2010. Spain were boring in the 2012 Euros when they played without a striker and people seem to remember that, notice that they won every knockout 1-0 at the World Cup and proclaim that during that whole Spanish domination period they always played boring football. At the 2010 World Cup they were far from boring and were miles better than anyone at that tournament.
I saw the other day a tweet saying how Fergie was a genius beating Milan 7-2 on agg with the team he had (Carrick, Fletcher, Rooney, Nani) vs. the Milan team they had at the time (Seedorf, Ronaldinho, Pirlo) - when actually at the time everybody expected United to win convincingly. Darren Fletcher was performing better than any Milan midfielder and Rooney was the best striker in the world. The Milan team had done nothing in Europe for a couple of years.
It's become some sort of myth that Ferguson was working miracles with utter shite in his final years, just because they all went on to play shite under Moyes and LVG. The likes of Anderson have been given the status of a laughing stock when actually his first season with United was extremely impressive, and he had many more good spells after that where he was class. I honestly think he's performed better than most Liverpool midfielders over the past decade. Johnny Evans also gets laughed at as though he was shite for United and stole a career at a top club- in 2013 he was our best defender when we won the league.
Another myth is Berbatov at United. People seem to have forgotten how useless he could be and how he was pretty mutch an outcast in his final 18 months with us, having been very frustrating for his first 2 years as well. He only really had a 6 month spell in 2010/11 where he hit the heights expected. I saw some people on Twitter putting him above Rooney and Ruud when ranking United strikers and there is a strange consensus that he is a legend. I suppose the odd moments of genius are what people remember.
There's a lot of myths in relation to World Cups such as Spain being boring when they won it in 2010. Spain were boring in the 2012 Euros when they played without a striker and people seem to remember that, notice that they won every knockout 1-0 at the World Cup and proclaim that during that whole Spanish domination period they always played boring football. At the 2010 World Cup they were far from boring and were miles better than anyone at that tournament.
Yes, pretty sure this was researched and @Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber and I were proven right.
Were you of the opinion left footers did indeed miss more often?
Rooney 'sacrificed' himself for Ronaldo, and played the majority of his games as a left winger during Ronaldo's time here.
Doubt it could have been more than 10 games in reality. Ronaldo just scored more from out wide than Rooney did upfront.
Doubt it could have been more than 10 games in reality. Ronaldo just scored more from out wide than Rooney did upfront.
I remembering reading that Chief vs the world thread
His reasoning as I remember was that left footers are easier to read... Which just seems logically absurd.
Football in the 1930s was better than football in the 1920s. It wasn't.
It was more than 10 games to be fair. And its more to do with the fact about what happened during the games rather than the position they started the game at. Rooney would often drop deeper and Ronaldo would move in to exploit the space and thus be in a better position to reap the glory. In those days Rooney was brilliant at being able to drop deep or go wide and being able to exploit the space and the ball, its something Ronaldo wasn't good at and couldn't have done. But at the same time Ronaldo was a much more clinical and ruthless figure in and around the box and did that job better than Rooney. They both complimented each other perfectly and it worked wonders for the team.
I've always wanted to be bothered to actually check the stats, but I don't remember it being more than 10 games. Few big CL away games where Ronnie played upfront and Rooney played left.
And Rooney playing left-wing or right back had little to do with Ronaldo, except for the actual games he was played on the wing and Ronnie played upfront.
Well it's what happened in the season following Ronaldo's departure that reinforced the idea that Rooney had to tune his game to suit Ronaldo's strengths. Because once Ronaldo left and Rooney played up top he had that blinder of a season before that injury in Munich cut it short. And then again in 11/12 when he played up top he scored a bucket load of goals. So it's easy to come to the conclusion that the only reason he didn't play up top and score more goals than he did in the 07-09 period was because Ronaldo refused to track back and preferred to be near the box so someone had to drop back and do the defensive work for him.
It couldn't be that left footed penalty takers are easier to read though or it would be a lower percentage both in game and in shootouts, unless left footed players who lack experience taking penalties are far easier to read than right footed players who rarely take penalties
Nah, he did play upfront before Ronaldo left though. That was his position, unless you are implying he was a winger. The compensation for Ronaldo, if anything, was Ji Sung Park or Owen Hargreaves playing in the opposite wing. We also had Tevez running around and tracking back. There were actual games where Fergie played Ronaldo at centre forward, and Rooney on the wing. From my recollection, those were no more than 10. The other games, Rooney played upfront, and Ronaldo played left for a reason.
Besides, Ronaldo was pretty much replaced by Nani anyway, who was no defensive stalwart.
I agree he was great after Ronaldo left. He naturally moved up the pecking order in terms of our best forward players because the one ahead of him left.
Nah mate I'm not saying he didn't play upfront or played as a winger when Ronaldo was here. But Ronaldo never did as much defensive work as a traditional winger does, so yes as you say other players had to compensate for it, including Rooney and Tevez, who ideally as CFs shouldn't have to do that much defensive work.
Nani didn't play like an inside forward as Ronaldo did so positionally at least no one had to cover for him on a consistent basis even though he was poor defensively. And as you say once Rooney moved up the pecking order he had to focus less on defensive duties and hence his attacking output in terms of numbers was better.
Totally disagree. Not being from England, I can tell you Pirlo was always one of the "top" footballing names around, someone always had a Pirlo shirt on for games and events. He was always considered one of the best midfielders around. He was maybe, just a little tad overrated too but no doubt world class
Sorry but I think you didn't watch those seasons in detail. It's not just about his position. The work rate of that Rooney really did help Ronaldo and he sacrificed a lot of his prime opportunities for Ronnie. Of course, rightly so as Ronaldo was/is the better player but you can't deny it.
It may just be variance through a relatively small sample size? Data was probably thousands, rather than millions.
My main issue is the exaggeration I've seen in the caf on how many times Rooney played on the left wing. It was really just a few times. I'm not talking about how many runs he made in 6 years. That was his game, he ran around, but not for Ronaldo.
You have to ask yourself why Fergie would specifically play Rooney on the left and Ronaldo upfront against Barcelona in the Nou Camp, if the instructions were for Rooney to do Ronaldo's running anyway even as a striker.
That David Beckham was not one of the best footballers of all time. Easily in the top 100, should have won a ballon d'or as well.
Think a 2nd place in the Ballon in 1999 is a generous enough reflection of his performance level.