They're top of their league. It's not outlandish.
It's only November, but who are your top 8 sides in Europe up to this point in time?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
City
P.S.G.
Napoli
Barca
Tottenham
Bayern
Valencia
United
P.S.G.
Napoli
Barca
Tottenham
Bayern
Valencia
United
In no particular order:
Napoli
Manchester City
Valencia
Barcelona
Roma
Tottenham
PSG
Bayern Munchen
Shakhtar Donetsk
Napoli
Manchester City
Valencia
Barcelona
Roma
Tottenham
PSG
Bayern Munchen
Shakhtar Donetsk
I thought we all agreed that Real have been shit? I'm sure there have been 8 teams better than them in Europe. Valencia for example.
FORM FAVOURITES THAT WILL TRY WIN EVERYTHING
City and PSG the form teams both domestic and CL, favourites for league and will definitely get into the last 8 in CL - do they have the pedigree thereafter?
Barca and Bayern not far behind, will probably win their leagues and have pedigree, but don't see them dominating in knockouts
FORM FLASH IN THE PAN
Spurs doing great but will win nothing
Napoli the form team in Serie A but the CL performer will be Juve, maybe at the cost of not catching them up
DARK HORSES (PARTICULARLY IF THE LEAGUE GETS FURTHER OUT OF REACH)
United not at their best level, defensive solidity probably a stronger platform for the CL dynamics than to chase a league leader grinding out results
Real doing poorly but bound to kick on as we get into the knockout stages. I'd expect them to lose the league but still favourites for the CL IMO
Overall, the only team that I think could pull off a double is PSG but it is more likely the CL winner won't win their domestic league.
City and PSG the form teams both domestic and CL, favourites for league and will definitely get into the last 8 in CL - do they have the pedigree thereafter?
Barca and Bayern not far behind, will probably win their leagues and have pedigree, but don't see them dominating in knockouts
FORM FLASH IN THE PAN
Spurs doing great but will win nothing
Napoli the form team in Serie A but the CL performer will be Juve, maybe at the cost of not catching them up
DARK HORSES (PARTICULARLY IF THE LEAGUE GETS FURTHER OUT OF REACH)
United not at their best level, defensive solidity probably a stronger platform for the CL dynamics than to chase a league leader grinding out results
Real doing poorly but bound to kick on as we get into the knockout stages. I'd expect them to lose the league but still favourites for the CL IMO
Overall, the only team that I think could pull off a double is PSG but it is more likely the CL winner won't win their domestic league.
Celtic are top of their league, shall we stick them ahead of us as well?
Right now :
1. City
2. Barca
3. PSG
4. United
5. Spurs
6. Bayern
7. Real
8. Chelsea
In 2018 :
1. Real
2. Barca
3. PSG
4. Bayern
5. United
6. Juventus
7. City
8. Chelsea
1. City
2. Barca
3. PSG
4. United
5. Spurs
6. Bayern
7. Real
8. Chelsea
In 2018 :
1. Real
2. Barca
3. PSG
4. Bayern
5. United
6. Juventus
7. City
8. Chelsea
Some are assessing form so far, others "topness" and projecting their trajectory. Yes, Valencia have done better than Real, but come the end of the season nobody expects Valencia to have done better.
It is impressive how Manchester United just suddenly become one of top 8 strongest sides in just a year after Mourinho took over United as a manager and United is in transition at the moment!!
Lots of close games against mediocre teams, but they always seem to pull through. Attack heavily reliant on Messi. Might not last.
On the other hand Real did that until May last season...
What do you want me to say groundreaking? This is a d*ck waving exercise. More interested in teams that are overperforming, though. So take the 8 teams from all the posters and have a look at which is the poorest, relatively speaking, that could be my contribution to this topic. So? Napoli, Shakthar, Spurs.
1. Barca - This is one of their strongest defensive sides this decade. No Dembele back from injury, Iniesta injured, out of form Suarez, new manager, and yet despite having so much room for improvement they are running away with the league. They have conceded the least amount of goals in Europe (!) thanks to Ter Stegen and Umtiti who I'd say is a worst case top 2-3 CB in the world right now.
2. PSG - Lethal attack, blowing teams out of the water. Neymar is the second best player in the world after Messi and their form is ridiculous right now.
3. Man City - Their defense is fairly suspect but that attack my goodness. Pep has built a machine.
4. Bayern - I think this is one of the weaker Bayern teams but they have looked better since firing Ancelotti.
5. Spurs - Great win yesterday but despite playing wonderful football for quite some time they have no trophies to show for it. They are a dangerous team but also prone to not showing up at all. They could get knocked out in R16 and the Madrid match will have just been a nice footnote, or they could go to the semis or even finals and that match could be seen as the catapult for Spurs finally arriving in CL.
6. Man United - These tournaments tend to favor the ultra defensive teams (like it did with Atletico normally) so United could be a dark hors. They have had a very easy group for Cl so it'll be easier to judge them once they face more proper competition in the tournament.
7. Real Madrid - Only because of their current form, but they can only get better and I'm sure no team wants to face them during this tourney. They'll improve once Verane and Carvajal and Bale return.
8. Juventus - Like Bayern, this is probably their weakest team in years but if they can qualify into the round of 16 they'll be a nuisance to deal with.
2. PSG - Lethal attack, blowing teams out of the water. Neymar is the second best player in the world after Messi and their form is ridiculous right now.
3. Man City - Their defense is fairly suspect but that attack my goodness. Pep has built a machine.
4. Bayern - I think this is one of the weaker Bayern teams but they have looked better since firing Ancelotti.
5. Spurs - Great win yesterday but despite playing wonderful football for quite some time they have no trophies to show for it. They are a dangerous team but also prone to not showing up at all. They could get knocked out in R16 and the Madrid match will have just been a nice footnote, or they could go to the semis or even finals and that match could be seen as the catapult for Spurs finally arriving in CL.
6. Man United - These tournaments tend to favor the ultra defensive teams (like it did with Atletico normally) so United could be a dark hors. They have had a very easy group for Cl so it'll be easier to judge them once they face more proper competition in the tournament.
7. Real Madrid - Only because of their current form, but they can only get better and I'm sure no team wants to face them during this tourney. They'll improve once Verane and Carvajal and Bale return.
8. Juventus - Like Bayern, this is probably their weakest team in years but if they can qualify into the round of 16 they'll be a nuisance to deal with.
They are reliant on Messi but this is a team with some changover, a new manager, and dealing with several injuries and out of form players. If they were playing at a level that isn't sustainable. I'd say of all the major teams in Europe outside of Real Madrid they have the greatest room for improvement. Dembele returning will be huge, and if Sergi Roberto and Dennis Suarez get more playing time they will be very dangerous. I think they'll be a MUCH better team in February onward in CL than what we've seen. The new manager has barely been with the team and while their attack could use some work, their defense has been incredible which is something you'll need to go far in this tourney.
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So this is all absolutely pointless then, if we aren't using universal criteria.
PSG
City
Barcelona
Napoli
United
Spurs
Juve
Inter or Roma.
City
Barcelona
Napoli
United
Spurs
Juve
Inter or Roma.
PSG and United defensively are much better than Barcelona, they are average in attacking if Messi is out of form. I don't think they are favourite for titles
Judging by these ratings, I think that Spurs and PSG are going to disappoint a lot of you in the knockout stages.
Bayern and Juventus will surprise and be better than we all think.
Bayern and Juventus will surprise and be better than we all think.
Maybe. But then again, Iniesta and Dembele are injured and will be back by the time May comes. They might actually be better by the time the squeaky bum time comes.
Celtic don't have to compete against Juventus
Napoli have easily been the 3rd best team in Europe. Not sure how people are putting us above them.
PSG no, they are better offensively, but not defensively. United I could say yes defensively, but absolutely no way are United better than Barca overall. United's attack is quite limp at times, and they've had some very poor games in the EPL. Barca are reliant on Messi, but I think they are definitely better than United. United also have played in an extremely easy group in CL, I'd say Barca's win over Juventus (3-0) is more impressive than anything United have done in CL.
Napoli have been very impressive. They are top of a strong league and playing excellent football.
They have played 11 games, won 10 and drawn 1. Including wins against Roma and Lazio, and an unlucky draw against Inter Milan where the keeper Handanovic was in fine form.
You didn't get the memo ? playing well is the new winning. \s
They've been very good in the league, and awful in the CL. In term of form they're nowhere near us.
They're also crashing out of a CL group where they should be confortable second.
The only teams i would put above us are Barça, PSG and City. Maybe Spurs but it's debatable.
Oh yeah they've been poor in Europe. I would have United above them in my list. I was just explaining why some would have them so high in the rankings, and it'd be because of their dominant league form.
Feel free to do so if you wish.
In a much harder group.
Cup competitions are poor indicators of quality.
Nonsense, we've only conceded 3 goals in 10 league games, which is less less than either United or PSG. We kept a clean sheet against Juventus too. We have statistically the best defense in Europe.
I can see Atletico or some defensively astute team, like us, Spurs, Barca seem to have a good defense atm too.
Based on nothing but gut feel and in no particular order.
Real, Barca, PSG, Bayern, United, City, Spurs & Napoli.
Real, Barca, PSG, Bayern, United, City, Spurs & Napoli.
Atlético aren’t even going to get throuvh their group! But yeah maybe you’re right.
Tricky to tell. PSG look very impressive at the moment, but it is very early in the season. City as well.
Right now I guess you can say City, but hopefully that form goes away soon.
Could be us soon
or maybe I am too optimistic.
Real and Bayern might turn things around though so will not rule them out. Still I do think they both have worse squads than last season when I had those 2 as the favorites to win it. Barcelona will always be fantastic with Messi in fantastic form, but they feel like a one man attack right now with a solid defense.
Right now I guess you can say City, but hopefully that form goes away soon.
Could be us soon
or maybe I am too optimistic. Real and Bayern might turn things around though so will not rule them out. Still I do think they both have worse squads than last season when I had those 2 as the favorites to win it. Barcelona will always be fantastic with Messi in fantastic form, but they feel like a one man attack right now with a solid defense.
Oh shit you’re right. I’ll add PSG to the list then, they have by far a better defense than City.
Defense isn't isolated from attack. If a team keeps possession of the ball for a whole game, they won't concede goals.
United have conceded 4 goals in the league and average 54.0% possession. Barcelona have conceded 3 while averaging 61.4% possession (stats according to whoscored.com)
I think the argument is that when the opponent has the ball, United are better defensively than Barcelona. In my opinion it's hard to say either way, but I think United have better defensive organisation.
Nope. it has been over 2 months. You conceded 5 goals to Real Madrid over two legs in Supercopa
I'm talking about 2017 in a league and all competitions and 2016-17 league season which United and PSG are much better than Barcelona.
What happened last season doesn’t matter, we can start saying barca beat united in preseason but it doesn’t really matter.
United are better than Barca defensively but Barca are the better team overall and would rightfully be favorites if the two meet up in CL.
Manchester United is a kind of mystery at the moment. We don't know for sure how strong they are, with Pogba or not. I mean United almost stopped Spurs from creating a chance, they only managed to create one big chance which United created like 4 or more chances like woodwork, Lukaku's chance, Lingard's chance and so on, it could've ended up 3-0 if United were more clinical. Spurs have beaten Real Madrid and scored 3 goals against them, they couldn't even score against us, and we sit back and allowed Liverpool to attack but they couldn't even score against us. If our attacking are average and our defences are much stronger, I think as long as we score which is okay for us but they won't score against us easily, we are a very hard team to beat.
Why does possession matter? If I keep the ball away from you for the vast majority of the game, I am limiting the probability you will score. That is as good of a defense as is placing numbers behind the ball.
Yeah, maybe. I'm not talking about overall, I just challenged someone that said Barcelona is one of best defensively just because league started just like 3 months ago which is too early to say and ignore United and PSG XD
Even if Barcelona ended up conceding extra 2 goals this weekend, that means United are a best defensive team in Europe? No, it is early to say which defence is much better and stronger.
Don't care much about form, as that's temporary.
Tier 1:
Real Madrid & PSG
Tier 2:
Barcelona, City, United, Chelsea, Atletico, Bayern
Tier 3:
Spurs, Napoli, Liverpool, Monaco and other "play nice football for feck all" teams.
If everyone could pull anyone, I'd prefer to stay clear of real and psg if the focus as a fan was only on getting further.
Tier 1:
Real Madrid & PSG
Tier 2:
Barcelona, City, United, Chelsea, Atletico, Bayern
Tier 3:
Spurs, Napoli, Liverpool, Monaco and other "play nice football for feck all" teams.
If everyone could pull anyone, I'd prefer to stay clear of real and psg if the focus as a fan was only on getting further.
To be honest, I'd put Spurs in Tier 2 and move Atletico Madrid to Tier 3