Maradona is a case that intrigues me, man. It is arguable that some players played longer at the top level than him (C.Ronaldo himself and Zidane for example) and players that had a better prime than Maradona (Ronaldinho from 2003-early 2006, 1966-69 George Best and 96-97 Ronaldo, for example) but what Maradona did in the 1986 world cup and his achievements with Napoli seems to rank higher among people than what other players have done even though Diego's decline was fast in the 90's and that he failed at Barcelona. I absolutely understand why people place him so high in these talks, but I can see a case for others. i'm never truly sure who to pick as the 5 undisputed greatests but I have to say C.Ronaldo is so ambitious and so ruthless that even if he ain't there now, he will probably end up there after 4 or 5 more years. I'll pick from the ones I saw play: Messi, Zidane, C.Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and the last one may come as a surprise, but what Fernando Torres did on his prime was so incredible that i'd put him at 5 (from my generation) from the distant past, I have to pick Pele, Cruyff, Di Stefano, Best and Garrincha. How to compare generations is a tough question and a challenge.
Ballon d’Or 2017 | Ronaldo wins
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Maradona is a case that intrigues me, man. It is arguable that some players played longer at the top level than him (C.Ronaldo himself and Zidane for example) and players that had a better prime than Maradona (Ronaldinho from 2003-early 2006, 1966-69 George Best and 96-97 Ronaldo, for example) but what Maradona did in the 1986 world cup and his achievements with Napoli seems to rank higher among people than what other players have done even though Diego's decline was fast in the 90's and that he failed at Barcelona. I absolutely understand why people place him so high in these talks, but I can see a case for others. i'm never truly sure who to pick as the 5 undisputed greatests but I have to say C.Ronaldo is so ambitious and so ruthless that even if he ain't there now, he will probably end up there after 4 or 5 more years. I'll pick from the ones I saw play: Messi, Zidane, C.Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and the last one may come as a surprise, but what Fernando Torres did on his prime was so incredible that i'd put him at 5 (from my generation) from the distant past, I have to pick Pele, Cruyff, Di Stefano, Best and Garrincha. How to compare generations is a tough question and a challenge.
He did not failed at Barcelona, it was just that injuries and his own demons prevented him from having a illustrious Barcelona career.
But individually he was excellent in Barcelona.
No way. Maradona was considered a prodigy and was at the top level from at least when he first won South American Footballer of the Year in 1979 to at least 1990 if not longer. Also Zidane back when he played was known for not always showing up for every single league match. I think Maradona definitely has longer at the top level than Zidane. People forget how long Diego was among the best in the world.
Personally I'd also take Zico and Platini over Zidane
Well, it's just that when I compare his Barcelona achievements to these of Messi, Cruyff, Romario or Ronaldinho, he's really a step behind, but sure, he had his moments here and there.
Zico never played for a top team in europe and failed at the national team. Zidane was ruthless at world cups and his masterclass against Brazil in 2006 alone should put him above Zico. Yeah, maybe Maradona's problems outside of the pitch make people forget about some of the things he did inside it.
Neither did Pele, Garrincha, Elias Figueroa and plenty of other South American greats pre-1990s. It simply wasn't relevant in the earlier eras.
And Zico's Flamengo sliced apart one of Europe's best from the 1980s Liverpool and Zico also had a phenomenal 1982 World Cup - it wasn't his fault they lost to Italy.
Fair points
So, getting back to nowadays... I must addmit that I was very surprised with how high Mbappe ranked on the final list and how high people on this forum rank him above Rashford even though the majority are United supporters. Perhaps I just haven't watched enough of his games at Monaco and seem how much progress he has made since arriving at PSG, but if Mbappe is as good as people are saying he is... I could see a scenario with him, Neymar and Hazard winning some of the next awards. Right now, it is arguable that these 3 are playing better than Messi and Ronaldo maybe. In short, which players are most likely to challenge the duopoly ? As much of a Rashford fanboy as I am, i'm probably overestimating his potential...
nah, Messi's may be scoring as frequently as we are accustomed to but his game is still top notch, clearly the best player in the world.
Who said he did?
Are you on drugs? He's got one of the worst converison rates in all of Europe, he's not even the best player on his team this season.
He doesn't have one of the worst conversion rates in Europe or even close to it and that's a terrible stat since he shoots from anywhere, a stat of shots per goal is going to look bad. Harry Kane is the same or Batistuta who was the best striker in the world but I bet his conversion rate was a lot worse than many other strikers.
Salah and Neymar are probably the worst finishers of the list. And who's been better than Ronaldo for Madrid so far this season? Isco is the only candidate since he started the season on fire but he's been slowing down.
Jesus... any SLIGHT criticism of Ronaldo on here is met with some people trying to argue otherwise. The man is not above criticism, especially this season. Let people have their opinion without getting shot down constantly, I don't see Messi fans constantly having to defend him when people criticise him.. it looks so insecure by Ronaldo fanboys that anything slightly negative (even when people post he had a bad game for example) is met with some fanboys feeling they need to defend him and shoot down people's opinions.
That's what annoys me most by Ronaldo fanboys, there is no point discussing with them because they can never admit Ronaldo is wrong or is poor.
It is like when Ronaldo scores a tap-in, his performance thread on here gets bumped everytime he scores any crappy goal, yet Messi fans don't bump his thread after every goal only if he does something special.. same way people are starting to call Ronaldo "Cristiano" on here in the same way the Spanish press affectionately call him like he's their mate.. do you know him personally!? it's toe curling cringe-worthy.
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Your meltdowns have been the best thing about this thread. It's his name, plenty of people call him that
He's not immune from criticism, obviously. I just disagree with what he was criticized about there and argued his point. I honestly don't even know how to reply to that comment
If you disagree with what I'm saying just make your point instead of whatever just happenedModric Modric Modric
Ronaldo looks finished out there, as he's extremely reliant on his teammates making him look good. When they don't play well he suffers a lot.
This is the worst Ronaldo has looked in a long long time.
Apart from scoring goals, he is actually playing well.
Modric has picked it up recently and he's looking like the Modric of last season now but he started the season is very bad form, he just doesn't get the same level of scrutiny.
As for the Ronaldo looking finished comment, I know you're a Barça fan but come on... worse than he's looked in a long time is fair but finished?
What makes you think that any of those had a better prime than Maradona?
Diego actually had a lot of world class years, certainly more than Zidane. Kinda surprising given his 'type' of personality usually burns out quick.
A king who has to say Im the king is no king at all.
I try to be objective when viewing Ronaldo I really do, but he's just such a whiny cnut. D'uuuuuh I'm the best player evurrrr. Even if he were (e's not even the best of his generation) just feck off.
Ignoring Messi, the like of Maradona and Cruijff had so mich more talent and impct in en era where the competition was much fiercer. Back then there were more than 3 world class teams hogging all the good players. What Maradona did at Napoli or Cruijff winningthe double at Feyenoord just to piss off Ajax. No way Ronaldo could have auch an impact singlehandedly. No way no how.
Great player, shite personality.
I try to be objective when viewing Ronaldo I really do, but he's just such a whiny cnut. D'uuuuuh I'm the best player evurrrr. Even if he were (e's not even the best of his generation) just feck off.
Ignoring Messi, the like of Maradona and Cruijff had so mich more talent and impct in en era where the competition was much fiercer. Back then there were more than 3 world class teams hogging all the good players. What Maradona did at Napoli or Cruijff winningthe double at Feyenoord just to piss off Ajax. No way Ronaldo could have auch an impact singlehandedly. No way no how.
Great player, shite personality.
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Aye, Zico's legacy is a notch below where it should be. His 1982 World Cup compares favourably to what the top players aren't doing at major tournaments today. He really ripped apart the best European opposition whenever he had the chance and was even the star of Serie A along with Platini when he made the move in his 30s.
I won't justify that post with a comment.
I've defended Ronnie many times but this bit about him beiong the best in history is stupid.
No, it’s always been the other way around and just stop, you’re trying too hard to make something from nothing.
...don’t you remember? Ronaldo wins something or achieves a great accomplishment and it’s all “good for him but can we not just appreciate BOTH his AND Messi’s talents without having to pick or choose?” And when Messi wins or achieves something, it’s “he’s the greatest, Ronaldo no where near him doesn’t deserve to be talked about”.
And again, myself and others have shown how the Barca/Messi fan boys are so sensitive that they’ve always let Messi be immune to any sort of criticism and don’t even acknowledge or bother believing such thing exists. Why on earth you’re trying to flip that logic on Ronaldo makes absolutely no sense as it’s never been the case but whatever floats your boat and makes you sleep at night. It’s all about fitting a certain narrative I guess, even if it means making one up
And fluent in French, too!
Well, many people agree that 96/97 Ronaldo had one of the best seasons ever in football history and that his explosion and dribbling skills were something never seen before. Don't think it's so weird to think his prime was better, even if it was really just that one season. Now, I can see why you would find strange my mentions of dinho and Best, there's a perception about dinho that after the 2006 world cup he was never the same and that before barcelona he was not THAT dinho yet (even though there's alot of footage available with dazzling displays for PSG, Gremio and Brazil before the move) but I mentioned 2003 to early 2006, so, I'd argue that some of the skills and tricks dinho had at that time and the incredible quickness of his thinking in a fast paced game were ahead of prime Diego. As for Best, I just picked him based on the fact in his absolute prime he was literally hummiliating defenders even though his goal record was not great, and Diego probably had better vision and passing, but some of the things Best used to pull off I never seen anyone do, ever. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand why people talk about Maradona or Pele as the greatests.
As I said back in post #430 -
The remarks he has made since about being 'the best player in history' just backs up what I'm saying. Sorry Ronaldo, you just don't have the skill set.
^ This is the real point here.
The remarks he has made since about being 'the best player in history' just backs up what I'm saying. Sorry Ronaldo, you just don't have the skill set.
^ This is the real point here.
you need to watch Maradona videos more tbh, Ronaldinho has nothing over him, nor Ronaldo nor Bestie.
They may be same level, but better? nope. Maradona was a much superior playmaker than either of them, while he was no slouch when it came to either dribbling or goal scoring.
Yeah, you could be right, I will look at more footage and perhaps come back here later with a new insight. I have seen mainly Barcelona and Argentina footage, not so much of Napoli and Boca Juniors..
Ronaldo fans and Messi fans calling each other out on stuff is a bit silly too. Both sidesarethe exact same. We're all football fans, we're all biased and we're all whiny little humans. Nothing wrong with blindlt defending your favourite, it's the beauty of the game.
Sorry but what are you on mate? If that helps you go to bed any easier at night then yea I guess it make sense.
Sorry that CR7 has the self confidence to talk the talk and walk it to push himself to such great feats. I’m sure he’s such a terrible person for having such willpower and ambition. I mean if it’s so easy everyone would yap away wouldn’t they? Exactly, cuz it’s harder said than done and only very few have the balls to put themselves in the fire and prove their abilities.
...and yes, the greatest goal scoring machine in football history doesn’t have a skill set - you heard that right folks! The one who’s evened the Ballon d’Or count from 1-4 vs Messi to 5-5 despite supposedly entering decline a few years ago. And let’s be completely honest here if you can put aside whatever homer glasses and be real from a neutral POV. For sure 1 and arguably 2 of Messi’s Ballon d’Ors, Iniesta deserved. Even the most hardcore of Barca fans acknowledge that so feck outta with the salty and bitter “this puts to notion this award isn’t for the best player” because Iniesta was the best player that year certainly, and arguably 2.
Are you 12 years old?
...15 at most.
I said he doesn't have THE skill set to be the best player in history. I didn't say he doesn't have A skill set.
Instead of just reacting to other posts, you should engage your brain first and then reply.
I'll refer you back to my original post.
Finished may be harsh and he was good against Sevilla today but in terms of impact so far I don’t think you can say he’s a top ten player right now, however it’s still early in the season.
Iniesta was never the best player in the world, that is just revisionism bullshit and a very hipster thing to say.
and than you cry when some Messi fans bite you.
Messi has clearly been better in several of CR7s wins for my money. The winner always seem to be either 'The World Cup Winner' or 'The Champions League Winner'. Canavaro and Owen were never the best players in the world.
Maradona had a better range of passing and vision than all of them bar maybe Ronaldinho. He was as good if not a better dribbler than all of them with closer ball control. He was a better set piece taker than all of them bar maybe Ronaldinho. His centre of balance was better than any of them. His touch was better than the lot too. In terms of turns, dummies, improvising, outsmarting oppossition he's better than all bar maybe Ronaldinho and still. Ronaldo and Ronaldinho were quicker though but Maradona was quick enough to beat 5-6 players. His movement off the ball too is top class.
Back then the best teams weren't necessarily in Europe. Zico's team beat then European Champions Liverpool in a World Club Cup IIRC. Zidane also only won one La Liga at Real
Maradona had a better range of passing and vision than all of them bar maybe Ronaldinho. He was as good if not a better dribbler than all of them with closer ball control. He was a better set piece taker than all of them bar maybe Ronaldinho. His centre of balance was better than any of them. His touch was better than the lot too. In terms of turns, dummies, improvising, outsmarting oppossition he's better than all bar maybe Ronaldinho and still. Ronaldo and Ronaldinho were quicker though but Maradona was quick enough to beat 5-6 players. His movement off the ball too is top class.
Back then the best teams weren't necessarily in Europe. Zico's team beat then European Champions Liverpool in a World Club Cup IIRC. Zidane also only won one La Liga at Real
You could maybe argue that 2010 should have gone to Sneijder (or even Xavi if in hindsight voters would have known that was his best shot for Ballon) and 2013 to Ribery. But, that would still put them on 4-4.
But, in the end, the crazy truth is that their individual level of performance was/is so high that they deserve to share it among themselves for the past 10 years. Amazing players, one pushing the other to elevate his game every season.
But, in the end, the crazy truth is that their individual level of performance was/is so high that they deserve to share it among themselves for the past 10 years. Amazing players, one pushing the other to elevate his game every season.
Best arguably played in way worse pitches than Maradona and the defenders were much more meaner, there weren't as many cameras back then and they could get away with more dirty stuff. Still he always had the ball glued to his feet, his centre of balance was great too. Well, they were kind of similar players, there's not really too much difference.
Maradona was also butchered tbh, out of these three, Messi is the most protected one as defenders today are cautioned for much less than what defenders did earlier.
One funny thing was Best hardly went down easily from what I saw of him. Despite being a relatively thin dude, he was tough as nail, never afraid of thug defenders. Even saw him swinging elbows at times lol.
Maradona was also tough but he used to dive much more than either Best or Messi.
But there is a very thin margin between them, dunno how good Best would have been in today's conditions given he shined even on those circumstances.
Yeah, Best was almost mocking the defenders ability to stop him haha. Do you think Messi has already got a better career than Pele and is just below Maradona (for you) or not yet ?
I consider Pele the greatest tbh, so Messi needs a great WC for me to be better than Pele.
Maradona also same, a world cup and he is ahead of both.