one pointer I found was, if the cross was coming from the left, there was a bank of atleast 3 defenders around the six yards, and Lukaku would be between the furthermost two defenders. So unless first two defenders miss the header, he's not getting on them. This pattern was repeated for crosses from Right side. There was no change of tactics like running into the box late or trying to mix it up. I believe this is the symptom of our attacking. Which others have labelled as predictable. This is really puzzling and shows you the difference between Fergie Era and current systems. Puzzling because We changed 3 managers, no one is telling the strikers to do something different while the attacks are from flanks. Second puzzling point i found was, passing from Pogba to Lukaku. We all know Lukaku's first touch is not something that he can brag about. Yet again and again Pogba would pass along the ground to him at a very fast pace which actually requires some technique to bring it under control.
PL D FA Premier League
Manchester United 2:2 Burnley
Post-match discussion
Tue, 26 December 2017
The general feeling that a draw is good enough is bewildering. Had I not known who we were playing, I would never have guessed that this thread was about Burnley.
Our standards have dropped into the abyss. Fergie must be wondering if this is the same Man Utd he used to manage. We laugh at Liverpool, but is the joke on us. I can see them closing in on us soon
Our standards have dropped into the abyss. Fergie must be wondering if this is the same Man Utd he used to manage. We laugh at Liverpool, but is the joke on us. I can see them closing in on us soon
Hi, Burnley fan. I thought we carried a decent enough threat first half and, but for a few poor passes from Hendrick could have countered more frequently. Our team is lacking so many players at the moment so was expecting a bit of a battering - no Ward, Tarky, Heaton, Brady or Wood. That's three major defensive players for us. I do not think the free kick on JBG for our first was given correctly. It looked like players competing and fairly innocuous. We have had some bad decisions recently i.e. Arsenal penalty, Spurs penalty, Murray attacking Tarky's broken hand and Tarky getting a retrospective ban. So, quite surprised we got that. The free kick prior to your equalizer is very soft. Jones runs into Vokes and he can not really do much about it. We eat crosses for fun, possession is often meaningless and our shot blocking is second to none so, to read a selection of statistics and conclude United were unlucky is wrong.
From an outsider perspective, team selection looked poor. Long is lumbering and an upper Championship defender at best. He can be easily undone by pace even when we sit in our shape. He turns like a tanker. Playing Ibra slightly deeper off Lukaku really helped him. Lingard moves across Long for your first. There is zero anticipation from Long and his positioning is poor. Ibra was a bad choice for this game and Lingard would have been more effective. The second bad choice is Rojo. I've seen him quite a bit and I would not swap him for any of our defenders. He's not as physical as his appearance suggests and he gets outfought constantly. Barnes picked him out all first half and owned him. This gave us our desired outlet. Pogba has a lovely touch and is so powerful. Not sure why he was so deep second half. Jose cost you two points in my opinion.
Our mistakes in the second half were with the time wasting. It was unnecessary, especially now we can actually play a bit. It pissed the referee off and riled your fans (a bit). Bizarrely, we have had worse from West Ham and West Brom at home this season. We got insufficient added time and our opponents were not punished via yellow cards so at least the ref gave you that. I don't like seeing us do it. Taking off Defour meant we lost composure on the ball. It was a bad call.
I hate City and I really dislike the idolatry of Guardiola. I hated his Barca team. Snide fouls, defensive possession, surrounding the ref constantly, the arrogance but, you are not going to catch City this season. He's spent too much, too well to fail.
From an outsider perspective, team selection looked poor. Long is lumbering and an upper Championship defender at best. He can be easily undone by pace even when we sit in our shape. He turns like a tanker. Playing Ibra slightly deeper off Lukaku really helped him. Lingard moves across Long for your first. There is zero anticipation from Long and his positioning is poor. Ibra was a bad choice for this game and Lingard would have been more effective. The second bad choice is Rojo. I've seen him quite a bit and I would not swap him for any of our defenders. He's not as physical as his appearance suggests and he gets outfought constantly. Barnes picked him out all first half and owned him. This gave us our desired outlet. Pogba has a lovely touch and is so powerful. Not sure why he was so deep second half. Jose cost you two points in my opinion.
Our mistakes in the second half were with the time wasting. It was unnecessary, especially now we can actually play a bit. It pissed the referee off and riled your fans (a bit). Bizarrely, we have had worse from West Ham and West Brom at home this season. We got insufficient added time and our opponents were not punished via yellow cards so at least the ref gave you that. I don't like seeing us do it. Taking off Defour meant we lost composure on the ball. It was a bad call.
I hate City and I really dislike the idolatry of Guardiola. I hated his Barca team. Snide fouls, defensive possession, surrounding the ref constantly, the arrogance but, you are not going to catch City this season. He's spent too much, too well to fail.
Shocking. Chelsea will finish above us, heck probably even Liverpool now the way things are going.
Barely scraped a draw is how you describe a one sided game where the opposition does a snatch and grab for two goals. Burnley barely got out of their own half.
Lets keep it real, Burnley are seventh because Sean Dyche understands how to get results. They are a bogey team for most of the top 6. We were unlucky not to convert more of our chances.
Pogba+Matic in midfield still not good enough. Martial, Rashford and Big Rom in attack, still need players. People were claiming that we have a solid defense, but we are leaking the goals again. How many more players do we need,and what will be the next excuse? It will be "now they need time to gel" and learn the Mou way of playing, you bet. How about getting the best out of the players we have?
That’s not saying much when Lingard has outplayed both Martial and Rashford this season, the latter who’s shockingly looked lost at times. And you have Lukaku who’s having frequent brain farts. So that leaves José with Pogba and Matic, both who have missed a considerable amount of time due to either injury or suspension.
/it’s the quality (lack there of). We’re one the biggest clubs in the world but don’t have biggest teams like the other clubs do. And he has got the best out of players hence the best start pts wise in United history up until a week or so ago. If it weren’t for Pep+City’s ridiculous start, we’d be comfortably in 1st or just a couple of pts away from them. Asking the manager to get more out of players/a team that just doesn’t have enough quality players is unrealistic. Simply put it’s a misconception people think we have numerous quality players when we really don’t...here, here’s a truck - get it working like a race car and get the “most out” of it...
This! Why isn't Matic our permanent captain? I think he'll be once Carrick retires.
Too little too late.
I wanted to poke my eyes each time Rashford put in one of his lame, brainless crosses.
I wanted to poke my eyes each time Rashford put in one of his lame, brainless crosses.
We are in top 3 when it comes to spending in the world. We are the biggest club in the world, presumably having the best tactician managing us, who has spent 300 million quid on 7 players. I do not think for a second that Mou is doing a good job. I am not sure he will win a CL or EPL during his first three years and I am sure we will have spent close to half a billion before he leaves. Very poor performance by Jose. City's start is well deserved and it is not just luck. You can feel Pep's influence there. Same is to be expected of Mou. Two summer windows gone, one left, and we are still extremely far from the top.
I don't know how much more of this shit I can take. It's no big deal losing to city they are class, to be fair, but the performances have to be better and our effort has to improve at least twice what its been recently and the collective intelligence is pretty much non-existent.
The dealing with Mikes injury was shambolic and any pub team the length and breadth of the country would do it without fuss in every league in the land. Yet at the worlds biggest club its the cause of us dropping 2 points and much merriment amongst our rivals. Yea I know our finishing was shite but we should not have relied on Mike on the back post anybody could have covered the run. So, so disappointing.
Bristol, well while we should have done better that first goal was a thing of beauty and IMO an unstoppable shot. The second one was the sucker punch and yet more shambolic defending and little or no effort in our play.
Today was just more of the same. Sucker punched early and then hit with a cracker and what is it with us and set pieces lately? We are going backwards now and due in no small part to our confidence being low. What hope has the squad got when our most inform player is benched. What message does that send to our squad? Try yer bollox out in training but if so and so's fit he plays! No matter how well you are playing.
Fair play to Lingard only for him lately we could be even worse off. Mata is not doing himself any harm either, nor Shaw. Ibra is not ready yet and we keep trying to turn Lukaku into Cantona instead of playing him to his strengths. Poor Matic is playing on emotions alone he never gets a break or any help and I don't think too much more needs to be said about DDG and Young. The rest need to wake up
It's just not good enough! But then you all know this already.
The dealing with Mikes injury was shambolic and any pub team the length and breadth of the country would do it without fuss in every league in the land. Yet at the worlds biggest club its the cause of us dropping 2 points and much merriment amongst our rivals. Yea I know our finishing was shite but we should not have relied on Mike on the back post anybody could have covered the run. So, so disappointing.
Bristol, well while we should have done better that first goal was a thing of beauty and IMO an unstoppable shot. The second one was the sucker punch and yet more shambolic defending and little or no effort in our play.
Today was just more of the same. Sucker punched early and then hit with a cracker and what is it with us and set pieces lately? We are going backwards now and due in no small part to our confidence being low. What hope has the squad got when our most inform player is benched. What message does that send to our squad? Try yer bollox out in training but if so and so's fit he plays! No matter how well you are playing.
Fair play to Lingard only for him lately we could be even worse off. Mata is not doing himself any harm either, nor Shaw. Ibra is not ready yet and we keep trying to turn Lukaku into Cantona instead of playing him to his strengths. Poor Matic is playing on emotions alone he never gets a break or any help and I don't think too much more needs to be said about DDG and Young. The rest need to wake up
It's just not good enough! But then you all know this already.
And what would be your assessment of our loss against Leicester?
Reading through much of this thread it's apparent to me I'm not watching enough shitty TV talking-head shows. Or is it that whinny YouTube-r that uses emo faces for his post-match reaction YouTube video thumbnails? I'm clearly out of the loop.
All this bitching and complaining about "league is so boring now!", "what will our rivals says about us now??", "how could we go down 2-0 against a team with Burnley's lack of club history?!" just makes me want to smash some peoples' heads together.
The game was damn entertaining -- United were on the attack for nearly the entire game . The players showed grit and heart to overcome a(nother) gifted set-piece goal and a Goal of the Month candidate strike, yet all everyone here is doing is bitching about the fact the game was not a walk in the park and how city are so awesome and we're not. WTF is wrong with you people?
All this bitching and complaining about "league is so boring now!", "what will our rivals says about us now??", "how could we go down 2-0 against a team with Burnley's lack of club history?!" just makes me want to smash some peoples' heads together.
The game was damn entertaining -- United were on the attack for nearly the entire game . The players showed grit and heart to overcome a(nother) gifted set-piece goal and a Goal of the Month candidate strike, yet all everyone here is doing is bitching about the fact the game was not a walk in the park and how city are so awesome and we're not. WTF is wrong with you people?
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I agree with @Ggmu_forever on this one. I saw the same game and came away with the same assessment.
I didnt see that game so cant comment on it.
Don't worry, neither did the guy you're talking to because we didn't lose that match.
ClassWin or lose, that was a fun game.
Yawn...give it a rest with the Jose bashing and your narrowed over generalizing view. You are showing too much Pep idolizing.
What we spent should be compared in a relative manner if you want to pull Pep into this conversation. You can’t just call out the dollar amount. Did you call out what Jose inherited vs Pep inherited? You can feel Pep’s influence because they are having a run of any club’s career. We are second and far from the top because our neighbors are having a season of their players’ lives and club’s history. Your overgeneralization only provides you an ignorant view of our current situation.
The beauty of this game and the premier league is that the dynamics changes every season and throughout the season. Everything is relative. If you bash Jose or our team, you can bash them simply because you don’t like them. If you are trying to bash them based on how we are doing in the league, you have to take into account the relativity to others in the league.
We didn't lose?
1. Zlatan is done. He doesn't cut it at the highest level anymore. His age has finally caught up to him which is clearly evident but he is too proud to admit it.
2. Rojo is unnecessarily very rash. Since he's been back he's conceded a penalty and a freekick in a dangerous area, both resulting in goals. He's never going to change his game by the looks of him which is going to cost the team time and again. He's a liability on the pitch.
3. If you do the same thing over and over again and expect different result then that's plain stupidity. Rashford's corner kicks never make it past the first defender. Why can't he just change the way he takes the corners or not take them at all ?
Clearly some of the players in the team are quite delusional which is directly hurting the team.
2. Rojo is unnecessarily very rash. Since he's been back he's conceded a penalty and a freekick in a dangerous area, both resulting in goals. He's never going to change his game by the looks of him which is going to cost the team time and again. He's a liability on the pitch.
3. If you do the same thing over and over again and expect different result then that's plain stupidity. Rashford's corner kicks never make it past the first defender. Why can't he just change the way he takes the corners or not take them at all ?
Clearly some of the players in the team are quite delusional which is directly hurting the team.
I prefer that FB combination to any I've seen in years. More Shaw please José.
Spurs beat them 3-0, at home, last Saturday.
Say what you want about Lingard, but at least the kid has heart and looks like he actually cares and wants it out there.
Lukaku is out to sea, has been for weeks.
Lukaku is out to sea, has been for weeks.
I stand corrected
I have banged on about our lack of full backs and pace for ages. Rojo is a red card walking, Young is a winger. Shaw had a decent game given our patched up defence. We are like a much slower Liverpool, we can score given a break on the luck front (another save with a keeper’s face), but the defence has made too many mistakes.
Keep Lukaku out of the area for pity’s sake will help. Missing Bailly and two quality full backs.
Keep Lukaku out of the area for pity’s sake will help. Missing Bailly and two quality full backs.
You are entitled to your opinion, but this has got nothing to do with relativity. The cold truth are the results. And managers are based on performances and results of their teams and nothing else. Jose is considered to be one of the best in the world and he needs to prove it. The proof would be winning EPL or CL in his first three seasons for me. With two summer transfer windows gone, just one left and so many question marks over the squad, players positions and playing style, despite having spent 300 million quid on 7 players, we are not getting closer to the title. I could not care less about how are other teams are doing, I am interested in winning a major trophy, which is an ultimate indication of a team's quality. Ours is 14-15 points behind City before New Year.
what on Earth did you say before your post was edited, ya foul-mouthed yank I assume you're American from your phrasing and mention of Talking Heads. In any case, I have to agree with you. We went down two goals, one brilliant fk and one terrible set piece (Lukaku failed clearance again..how many goals has he caused directly? Needs to get the same flak that Fellaini did after giving away a late pen). At that point you can only expect and clamor for a good team response. And indeed that's what we got. It's a stark difference from a few years ago. So all said, we should be content.
The Leicester game is another matter. That was shambolic at the end, the number of chances missed and last minute goal when up a man. Unprofessional. Immature. That game worries me much more than Burnley.
Nothing to do with relativity? I see.
I'm on hols now, staying up late and posting can sometimes lead to nonsense like my previous post
I was a bit hungover at the match, though not too bad, until I watched that first half. I have to say the free kick for their second was perfect, and not even the great de Gea could keep it out.
Third game within a few days in which not taking our chances cost us. Lukaku, Rashford and Martial all like Peter Davenport in his pomp in front of goal. I was going to say like Gary Birtles, but let's not get carried away. At least it was our turn to score at the death, after conceding one in each of the previous two matches. It's all just a bit disjointed. It feels like we're almost there but can't quite put it all together. When we start being more clinical, someone is going to take a hiding: hopefully Southampton on Saturday.
Oh, and Lingard continues to prove me wrong, which I'm glad about.
Third game within a few days in which not taking our chances cost us. Lukaku, Rashford and Martial all like Peter Davenport in his pomp in front of goal. I was going to say like Gary Birtles, but let's not get carried away. At least it was our turn to score at the death, after conceding one in each of the previous two matches. It's all just a bit disjointed. It feels like we're almost there but can't quite put it all together. When we start being more clinical, someone is going to take a hiding: hopefully Southampton on Saturday.
Oh, and Lingard continues to prove me wrong, which I'm glad about.
I'm old enough to remember seeing us draw 2-2 at home with Burnley in the 1960's, when we scored twice in the last four minutes to equalise. I looked up the year and it was early in the 1967/8 season. City went on to win the league, as United finished 2nd and won the European Cup. An omen for this season perhaps
Ohh i like the sound of that!!I'm old enough to remember seeing us draw 2-2 at home with Burnley in the 1960's, when we scored twice in the last four minutes to equalise. I looked up the year and it was early in the 1967/8 season. City went on to win the league, as United finished 2nd and won the European Cup. An omen for this season perhaps
This is kind of ridiculous. You don't care how other teams are doing... Yet only winning a major trophy is an indicator of success. You realise we don't play in a vacuum right? And city having the greatest start to a season in memory kind of makes it hard to keep up?
LOL competition is literally about how you do relative to someone/something else.
No it is not ridiculous at all. Of course I expect us to challenge for the title. Same expectation as in any other top club. None of Bayern, Barca, Real, PSG, Juve, City etc exist in a vacuum. I expect us to win one of the toughest challenges in modern sport. We were supposed to have hired one of the best tacticians out there, we provided him with huge resources, he signed a 3-year contract and has lost both of his league title challenges before New Year. I am talking about Man Utd and Mou, not about Poch or Klopp or Wenger. Unless, you consider Jose to be at the same level as these managers of course. Luis Enrique was sacked, Mou was sacked twice, Carlo Ancelotti was sacked several times as well. Feck, Zizu can be sacked soon if he does not deliver despite achieving something which is considered a miracle. Ranieri was kicked after completing a mission impossible. There is absolutely nothing wrong to believe that Jose should win something major having spent 3 years and half a billion quid. As I said he has one season left. In his first two we were left behind in November.
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I assume you're American from your phrasing and mention of Talking Heads. In any case, I have to agree with you. We went down two goals, one brilliant fk and one terrible set piece (Lukaku failed clearance again..how many goals has he caused directly? Needs to get the same flak that Fellaini did after giving away a late pen). At that point you can only expect and clamor for a good team response. And indeed that's what we got. It's a stark difference from a few years ago. So all said, we should be content.
The Leicester game is another matter. That was shambolic at the end, the number of chances missed and last minute goal when up a man. Unprofessional. Immature. That game worries me much more than Burnley.
I completely agree with you on all points. Lukaku needs to sort that shit out and quickly, or Mourinho needs to rip that responsibility from his hands. I think Mourinho is leaving him in that situation to help him learn how to deal with it better, but it's costing United points. Same with Rashford and his lapses in judgment.
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The ridiculous part is that you don't care how other teams are doing. So, in a normal year, we're well in the hunt for the title with this many points. This is a freak year due to city output. It's all well and good to claim we should be winning things, but to claim it doesn't matter how other teams are doing is just absurd.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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4%
Ashley Young
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3%
Nemanja Matic
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2%
Luke Shaw
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1%
Paul Pogba
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1%
David de Gea
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1%
Juan Mata
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 384 ratings.
Score Predictions
355,26,32
- Man Utd win
- Burnley win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 29% Man Utd 2:0 Burnley
- 18% Man Utd 3:0 Burnley
- 15% Man Utd 1:0 Burnley
- 8% Man Utd 4:0 Burnley
- 7% Man Utd 2:1 Burnley
- 4% Man Utd 1:1 Burnley
- 4% Man Utd 5:0 Burnley
- 4% Man Utd 3:1 Burnley
- 3% Man Utd 0:0 Burnley
- 3% Man Utd 0:5 Burnley
- 1% Man Utd 4:1 Burnley
- 1% Man Utd 1:2 Burnley
- 1% Man Utd 0:1 Burnley
- 1% Man Utd 0:2 Burnley
- 0% Man Utd 5:1 Burnley
- 0% Man Utd 2:3 Burnley
- 0% Man Utd 1:3 Burnley
- 0% Man Utd 0:3 Burnley
- 0% Man Utd 3:2 Burnley
- 0% Man Utd 0:4 Burnley
- 0% Man Utd 2:2 Burnley
Match Stats
- Man Utd
- Burnley
- Possession
- 71% 29%
- Shots
- 24 3
- Shots on Target
- 6 2
- Corners
- 12 2
- Fouls
- 10 14
Referee
Martin Atkinson
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Henrikh Mkhitaryan
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replaced by Jesse Lingard
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