We'll see how much game time Lingard and Shaw get next season when we sign the likes of Danny Rose and Jean Seri
Have we significantly improved since we got rid of LVG?
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
How is this a question? Won domestic and European trophies, in the CL, 2nd in the Premier league and now have 3 world class players. Only thing worse is we're being stalked by a bitter ex manager.
I heard in yesterday's game the commentator saying United reaching 50 points in 23 games would've had them top of the table the year before as even Chelsea didn't have that much..
We've done great this year, but still trailing by 12 points.. City have done very well and in certain ways this points total could be an outlier than the norm..
Had those 3 draws in Christmas period were even narrow wins, the gap would've been 6 points and no one would say the league is done..
City at home in certain ways was a weird game.. Two Lukaku mistakes, two goals.. And he missed at the other end to equalize. Stoke draw and Huddersfield loss could've been avoided..
All in all I think we're definitely moving in the right direction and I think a few results, had it been favorable to us, we could still be talking about a title race..
I'm convinced we finally have a manager who has the know how and the gravitas to lead us back to a title after SAF retired.
We've done great this year, but still trailing by 12 points.. City have done very well and in certain ways this points total could be an outlier than the norm..
Had those 3 draws in Christmas period were even narrow wins, the gap would've been 6 points and no one would say the league is done..
City at home in certain ways was a weird game.. Two Lukaku mistakes, two goals.. And he missed at the other end to equalize. Stoke draw and Huddersfield loss could've been avoided..
All in all I think we're definitely moving in the right direction and I think a few results, had it been favorable to us, we could still be talking about a title race..
I'm convinced we finally have a manager who has the know how and the gravitas to lead us back to a title after SAF retired.
How anyone could think we haven’t improved under Jose from Van Gaal’s disasterous reign is certifiably insane, City have broken records this season and much like the Leicester league winning season we're seeing City have a freakish season so far that isn’t likely to be replicated any time soon.
We’re second in the league despite missing our best player (Pogba) for a long period of time, have Sanchez coming in who’s a top 5 in the league player, in the Champions League with a very winnable draw, in the FA Cup and grinding out results even when not playing well so I’d say we’ve improved on last season and last season was an improvement from Van Gaal’s last season.
We’re second in the league despite missing our best player (Pogba) for a long period of time, have Sanchez coming in who’s a top 5 in the league player, in the Champions League with a very winnable draw, in the FA Cup and grinding out results even when not playing well so I’d say we’ve improved on last season and last season was an improvement from Van Gaal’s last season.
That's wrong. We'd be top in 15/16 after 24 games. Every season in and around (going as far as 2012), we'd be second, a maximum of 6 points behind ourselves in 12/13 and Chelsea last season.
You're right. I should've checked it was right. I thought the commentator would've got these type of things right. My bad.
So, LVG left us scrapping for 4th and 5th, with a squad whose best players are 2 youngsters, and Rooney was still starting and formation got changed to suit him.
Now we're second, didn't fall of top 3 except once in the first 24 games. Our squad now has Pogba, Matic, Lukaku and Sanchez.
And after this should I take such a question seriously ?!
Now we're second, didn't fall of top 3 except once in the first 24 games. Our squad now has Pogba, Matic, Lukaku and Sanchez.
And after this should I take such a question seriously ?!
Weren't we supposed to sign Rose in the summer and then in this window? We didn't, we haven't and we won't. Seems like you're trying really hard to prove a point that just doesn't hold up given the evidence. At the end of the day Jose has shown that he picks players who perform, including the younger ones. I mean he stuck with Lingard over Mki. He stuck with Shaw when he could have used Darmian or Blind. So I don't really know if that Jose angle holds up.
According to Jose THIS Shaw is the best left back so why should he sign Danny Rose if THIS Shaw is around?
Look come back to me when we sign a left back in the summer. Probably won't be Rose but someone similar. Herrera and Carrick performed last season but didn't see too much action once we bought Matic. Mata has done a job on the right but now we have Sanchez.
LVG was a bad for United, but your being ludicrously harsh. His 1995 Ajax was amazing, a talented bunch, but the hand of louis very vicible. He won the league with AZ (almost twice in a row) which was a great achievement. He took Bayern to the CL final and started their new dominant era (not saying that’s all on him). And the Dutch national team was shite in 2014 not outrageously talented, your talking rubbish. He’s not Steve fecking McClaren.
He was a bad fit for the prem, but you’re being silly.
Yep. Agree with this.
He was brutal for us and we're miles better off now, that's not even a question.
But to say he was lucky to get top jobs is so wrong.
We won’t sign either. One is an injury croc the other quite frankly not good enough nor what we need. We need a ball winner to play alongside Matic.
We've won more trophies, and the style of play is a little different, but arguably we are still just as boring to watch and lacking of any real thrust 90% of the time. LVG wanted slow and methodical possession-based play with maximum economy of chances. Jose is happy to not have the ball quite as much, and hit on the counter. With the ball, we do sometimes click (as evidenced in the 4-0's we were getting early on in the season) but overall Jose does want us to play a tighter, more disciplined game.
I think the difference between us and say City or Liverpool at the moment is that those sides aren't afraid to take risks as much as we seem to be, and also the managers are more trusting that the quality of the attacking players will mitigate those risks. That said, I think the attackers of those teams are all full of confidence, whereas we only really have maybe Martial and Lingard at the moment who are consistently scoring goals.
I think the difference between us and say City or Liverpool at the moment is that those sides aren't afraid to take risks as much as we seem to be, and also the managers are more trusting that the quality of the attacking players will mitigate those risks. That said, I think the attackers of those teams are all full of confidence, whereas we only really have maybe Martial and Lingard at the moment who are consistently scoring goals.
Steve McClaren won the dutch league.
Van Gaal was despised by Bayern fans and chased out of Munich in the end although his signing of Robben proved to be their best ever signing.
Raymond Domenech is a joke of a manager who got to a WC final because of Zidane and no other reason. Van Gaals success at Bayern and Holland was heavily down to Robben who was simply unstoppable when fit. Di Matteo won a champions league but was never seen or heard of in managment again. It can be argued that his success was more down to embarrasment of riches in his squad and a rub of the green than anything else.
Steve McClaren possibly could have won a champions league if he had replaced Fergie and over time thst would have been more down to personnel than McClaren.
We have picked up a few more points, players are allowed to shoot on goal, football is sleep inducing rather than coma inducing, that's about it.
Are you serious that we are just as boring to watch? Football under LVG was the worst I've ever seen especially his second season. We used to take only 2-3 shots on target. He sucked all the enjoyment out of the game. We've already equalled our goals tally of 2015-16 with 14 matches left to play. If that is not significant improvement, then I don't know what is. Sure, we are not as attacking as City or Liverpool but we are definitely much better than LVG's United.
I don't think he was even bad fit for the league. I feel the leicester loss had a huge impact on him that he spent most of the time in organizing his defense. We were doing pretty fine with 3 in the back and only if the ref didn't screw us over in that leicester game, things might have different. His second season was atrocious considering we never looked like scoring goals. I thought he was over complicating simple things and that had a huge impact on his time here.
I am sorry but I don't think you watched us play under LvG then.
Definitely have.The confidence in the players,the self-belief,the realization in the players of the demands at Man United(you have to win games).
This is contrary to the indifference during LVG & Moyes' reign.
Back then the players could just get on the pitch and not have any expectations on them.It was totally crazy,how lackluster the performances were.I was averse to watching some games
then not because I didn't care but because my enthusiasm waned.The team was completely directionless.
These days I look forward to our games and know we most likely will have positive results. Mourinho is certainly leading us in the right direction.
This is contrary to the indifference during LVG & Moyes' reign.
Back then the players could just get on the pitch and not have any expectations on them.It was totally crazy,how lackluster the performances were.I was averse to watching some games
then not because I didn't care but because my enthusiasm waned.The team was completely directionless.
These days I look forward to our games and know we most likely will have positive results. Mourinho is certainly leading us in the right direction.
Steve McClaren won the Dutch league.
Van Gaal won the Dutch league, the Bundesliga, the Primera division, the copa del rey, the dfb pokal, the FA cup, the Champions league, the Uefa cup the world cup for club teams, the european super cup and a third place at the world cup with the same team that his successors failed to even qualify with for the next 2 tournaments.
As I said, you’re being silly. Either that or you’re hatred of Van Gaal cut off the oxygin to your brain.
Don’t get me wrong, Louis van Gaal is the most narcissistic psychos in the game, but he’s not the wolly with the brolly.
I think people are slowly forgetting LVG's reign as time passes and how truly poor we were. We have improved as a whole but there are still small signs of LVG's football in our team at points, but under Jose we are slowly getting back the ability to have an average game but still come away with the 3 points.
LVG just didn't understand the PL. Mourinho does and that's the difference.
LVG needed a different set of players to succeed. He thought that he can get his philosophy working but for that to work he needed players with technical ability and vision. He had none and that is the main reason why he got so boring and failed.
Look at the players he had at Ajax. Blind and Rijkaard. One of the best pair of defenders in the world. VDS in goal. Seedorf and Davids in midfield. Litmanen as the playmaker. Kluivert and Kanu up on top. Overmars on the wing. All of these players would get into a european best 11 including subs.
With us he had an over the hill Rooney, Mike Smalling etc. While only DeGea can be equal to anyone in that team.
Look at the players he had at Ajax. Blind and Rijkaard. One of the best pair of defenders in the world. VDS in goal. Seedorf and Davids in midfield. Litmanen as the playmaker. Kluivert and Kanu up on top. Overmars on the wing. All of these players would get into a european best 11 including subs.
With us he had an over the hill Rooney, Mike Smalling etc. While only DeGea can be equal to anyone in that team.
Well Carrick's been injured and Herrera has had poor form. Either ways we're
Carrick's had a heart problem and Herrera's form has dipped this season. Let's not try to be revisionist here. Anyway this discussion is about his treatment of the young talent in our squad. He certainly has not ignored our young talent like you said in your op. Don't know why you're inserting players like Herrera, Carrick and Mata in the discussion.
And we're not going to sign a left back if Shaw remains injury free. Mourinho pretty much said that in his last press conference.
Is this still a question? During the Christmas period there was a pretty big undercurrent on the Caf and I was quite keen on seeing a poll on Jose's future. Thought maybe 25-50% of posters wanted him out or only till the end of the season. Pretty sure that's changing rapidly, but a poll would still be interesting just for people to put their cards on the table...
I'm a big fan of Jose. Don't get me wrong. He's saved this club and we're gonna be awesome with Sanchez. But there has been many times in his career where he's demanded money fir a ready made superstar when he already had the best kid around who just needed developing. He has yet to really prove that he can spot a rough diamond bargain and turn them into a superstar like some other managers have. Rashfords influence and game time looks like it might decline with the form of Martial. He played Young over Shaw yesterday wgen everyone thought finally Shaw had nailed a spot in the team. There's been talk pf signing a new right back when we potentially have the best kid around in Tuanzebe. So we'll see how it pans out
We have more goals with Mourinho than we he shots on goal with LVG. Nothing comes close to the shit served by LVG.
He's better than McClaren for sure but he's overrated. He's practically been chased out of town by an angry mob almost everywhere he's been. His performance while managing utd shows he's miles and miles out of touch with the modern game. Steve McClaren would easily win the bundesliga if he managed bayern. Van Gaal is probably about Sam Allardyce/ Pulis level as a manager. He scouted Dele Alli and decided he wasn't good enough. His methods are suited to International football. He'd be well suited to Scotland/Ireland/Wales
Of course we have improved. I think we hit 4 goals in a match twice in LVG’s tenure, We are much more free scoring under Jose and although I have no stats to hand I’d guess we concede less too.
The squad is better, the results are better, the football is better except for poor chance conversion. If we scored 5 against Leicester and 5 against Burnley, like we should have, then perception would be different.
Against the smaller teams at home, yes, against the bigger teams away, no we've gone backwards, literally
Yes of course we have. Saying that I think United should have given him another season. He needed as much to be fully allowed to complete his own project. No wonder he's bitter towards United these days. All that aside, we're going in the right direction under Mourinho.
Nah. Bullshit. Results are similar in the big matches to Van Gaal’s second season and we’re certainly not getting the arse-kickings we occasionally got against big teams under Van Gaal. We’ve only lost one big away game this season and Lukaku missed a sitter which would have left us all square.
The big and really obvious difference between this season and life under Van Gaal (when fecking Leicester won the league) is that City, Liverpool and Chelsea have improved massively. Spurs have improved a bit. Arsenal are Arsenal. Always the same.
That sideways rubbish where the team only creates 1 shot per game? He was so bad at Man Utd that he may go down as the worst ever manager here when you consider how much he was given to spend.Let’s agree to disagree, disagree a lot
You sure you’re not on the wum?
I just feel his stock was so high after Ajax won that he's been given so many jobs based on that success but when you see the players in that team....it's arguably the greatest collection of young talent in one team of all time. I think a few managers would have won the CL with that team.
We've conceded joint fewest in the league so far this season, 16 in 24 games (others being Chelsea). Last season Spurs conceded fewest with 26, we second fewest with 29. And we've had a problematic left back spot through out that time and constant changes in central partnership (injury forced).
I seriously considered to stop watching football under lvg. Now I don’t. That’s improvement . Oh, and we win more things, like cups and games.
That's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard someone say about LvG.
I'm not bored to feckin tears watching our games, which is a good start for me. Apart from Jose shitting it in some big games think we are a pretty open team if slightly ineffective at times. I prefer the occasional lack of ambition to the general entertainment malaise under Louis.
Last edited: