Yes
Have we significantly improved since we got rid of LVG?
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
It really wasn't due to tactic at the exception of Di Maria the players you mentioned and I will add Rooney were all on their last legs at this level. Di Maria still put good numbers while Rashford and Martial were very good.
We deserve an lvg third season,where he would have brought in more average players and tell us we can't understand his philosophy because of his genius...
We have improved but we are in bad form at the moment,doesnt help that our players keep dropping like flies and we have lost important players during different stages of the season... Leicester was a case of bad finishing,burnley was shit defending +listless attack,today was the same...
We have improved but we are in bad form at the moment,doesnt help that our players keep dropping like flies and we have lost important players during different stages of the season... Leicester was a case of bad finishing,burnley was shit defending +listless attack,today was the same...
I’ve hated most of the last few years tbh.
/thread on post 6
At this particular moment in time i wouldn't say the improvement has been significant. LVG got us back in the Champions League for one season and one the FA cup.
Last season Jose won the Carling Cup and got us back in the Champions League though the Europa League. Depending on how you rate the Europa League, you could say that it's better than the FA cup we won under LVG. I would probably say so, but i don't think it's night and day.
The football under LVG was absolutely mind numbing at times, although it was littered with some great performances. Certainly not enough to erase the tumescent football we were served for most of his tenure, but there were some highlights. Under Jose i would say that the football has improved generally, but it's not exactly blown me away. We really struggle in attack in a lot of our games. There's no real cohesive plan. Our attack is disjointed and muddled, and there's no real pattern or shape to it.
This can be attributed to the particular players we have, but the manager must also take huge responsibility. What i really worry about is the seeming lack of direction or identity. Liverpool have an identity, Spurs have an identity and City definitely do at the moment. That's not me blowing smoke up their arses, but they do have a distinct style that is easily noticeable. I don't see that with us.
I genuinely can't see what we're trying to do, and that's a real concern.
Last season Jose won the Carling Cup and got us back in the Champions League though the Europa League. Depending on how you rate the Europa League, you could say that it's better than the FA cup we won under LVG. I would probably say so, but i don't think it's night and day.
The football under LVG was absolutely mind numbing at times, although it was littered with some great performances. Certainly not enough to erase the tumescent football we were served for most of his tenure, but there were some highlights. Under Jose i would say that the football has improved generally, but it's not exactly blown me away. We really struggle in attack in a lot of our games. There's no real cohesive plan. Our attack is disjointed and muddled, and there's no real pattern or shape to it.
This can be attributed to the particular players we have, but the manager must also take huge responsibility. What i really worry about is the seeming lack of direction or identity. Liverpool have an identity, Spurs have an identity and City definitely do at the moment. That's not me blowing smoke up their arses, but they do have a distinct style that is easily noticeable. I don't see that with us.
I genuinely can't see what we're trying to do, and that's a real concern.
Glad you agree. It’s honestly become so poor. They can barely string any passes together and it’s like the ball is a bomb and they don’t want it anywhere near them.
Yes*
Not as much as we should have. The slide seems to have stopped, but there's a little bit of a plateau at the moment that seems hard to get through.
Not as much as we should have. The slide seems to have stopped, but there's a little bit of a plateau at the moment that seems hard to get through.
We have, but is it a normal Mourinho short term boost for then falling apart in third season or in this case maybe even earlier than that. Mourinho has never been good at building something for long term as he normally put focus on short term results over everything else.
Have we improved? Without a shadow of a doubt. Have we improved enough for it to be classed significant? Hmmm
3 games ago I would probably argue "Yes" based on results and league position, if not performances.
In the last 3 games we've looked very LVG-esque unfortunately.
I'd say we're still just about there though. We need a good run of results in the new year to maintain that though
3 games ago I would probably argue "Yes" based on results and league position, if not performances.
In the last 3 games we've looked very LVG-esque unfortunately.
I'd say we're still just about there though. We need a good run of results in the new year to maintain that though
The first third of both seasons I’d say we were infinitely better than LVG.
But turn into the Xmas period of both and we undo the hard work of the good start.
Jose has mentally and physically exhausted two of our best players in Matic and Lukaku. Pogba is fantastic, but really looks like he doesn’t know what he has to do and the defence has become a bit of a shambles. The supplementary attackers in Mkhitaryan, Mata, Lingard, Martial and Rashford in both seasons have faded in an out.
There is a real style of play issue, because we don’t actually have one.
But turn into the Xmas period of both and we undo the hard work of the good start.
Jose has mentally and physically exhausted two of our best players in Matic and Lukaku. Pogba is fantastic, but really looks like he doesn’t know what he has to do and the defence has become a bit of a shambles. The supplementary attackers in Mkhitaryan, Mata, Lingard, Martial and Rashford in both seasons have faded in an out.
There is a real style of play issue, because we don’t actually have one.
Marginally. Today was as bad as anything under LVG though.
LVG’s main failing was that he seemed utterly unable to identify and sign players who suited his style of play. Jose’s signings have been better, but we now don’t appear to have any style of play at all.
LVG’s main failing was that he seemed utterly unable to identify and sign players who suited his style of play. Jose’s signings have been better, but we now don’t appear to have any style of play at all.
We looked brilliant before injuries to Fellaini and Bailly occurred. We look spineless without them and Pogba plays deeper without Fellaini which all but ruins him really. If Jose can get a dynamic right winger in January such as Malcom or Moura and we go injury free for a while then we'll go on another good run soon for sure.
Yes we have improved.
But no more than you would reasonably expect given the additional £300m spend, regardless of who happened to be in charge. Put another way, there are tons of managers that could have produced similar results.
But no more than you would reasonably expect given the additional £300m spend, regardless of who happened to be in charge. Put another way, there are tons of managers that could have produced similar results.
Well we are in the CL so technically yes, but to me the evolution of our squad and style of play is far more important than the financial benefits of being in the CL. So in that regards i'd say no.
I believe we have improved significantly, the standard of the premier league has improved significantly in the last 3 years to the extent where I think that pretty much any of the top 6 would win the league comfortably in the 2015/16 season. Every team has improved significantly in addition to us and yet we still have way more goals and 10 more points than the last season before Jose came. The main concern for me is our over-reliance on a few select players, namely, De Gea, Valencia, Matic, Pogba and Lukaku. If any 1 of them are out we are so much worse as a team, against southampton we were missing 2 and it really showed. Rashford has been dire lately. Nevertheless I am still very happy with the progress, you can't expect any manager to win the title in his first two seasons at a club unless the club is already at the top, but when its a rebuild then you need to give them at least 3 seasons, provided good progress is shown in each season. I do think Jose should be a bit more ruthless following this season, I don't believe Carrick, Mkhitaryan, Darmian and Blind playing for United next season. Either way I do think Jose is doing a very good job at setting up our squad for long term success, just like he did in his time at real madrid, the real fruits of his labour didn't really end up showing until after he left. The core of the recent real madrid was built by him of course.
The big problem with the team right now is Rashford and Mkhitaryan. Mkhitaryan hasn't panned out. For whatever reason, the guy who looked like a sure thing at Dortmund hasn't replicated it here. Rashford simply isn't ready to have the level of influence he has right now. He's inconsistent and overly reliant on athleticism atm.
We fix those two issues, and the attack will be transformed. Mourinho should really try to get Ozil this winter.
The secondary problem with the club right now is the midfield. Our midfield is thin, we've got Pogba and Matic, but that isn't enough. Herrera is a good squad player, but we need to upgrade him so that Pogba and Matic have some more support and help when our midfield starts getting overrun. Our defense is solid, and the issues we've been having are primarily to the secondary issue, our midfield gets overrun.
We need 2 signings right now to plug those two big issues. A replacement for Mkhitaryan and an upgrade on Herrera. Rashford can wait, he is less of a pressing issue, and he may improve with better service from a more consistent number 10.
Tertiary concerns are to upgrade our wingers/full backs. Frankly, Shaw has looked good since his return, I think he might actually come good if the relationship between him the team and Mourinho hasn't been damaged. On the other side we have Valencia, and I am a huge Valencia fanboy. However, he's the brick shithouse we play when we need to be tight at the back and dominate a wing defensively. He is limited in his service going forward and we could certainly use a better attacking option there.
Lastly, we need to stop trying to shoehorn Rashford, Martial and Lukaku into the same team together. Pick two, play them more centrally side by side, and replace whichever is not playing as well as the other around 55-60 min. None of them are suited to play wide imo, although I think Rashford could develop into a solid right sided forward/winger due to his pace and his actually pretty reasonable crossing. Martial has to stop being played wide left to accommodate Lukaku as the lone striker. He's too talented to languish out wide, and its too easy for him to be isolated (I think that's on his mentality). He needs to be put more centrally so he is more involved and can't be isolated.
That's the Nucks breakdown on how to bandaid our issues right now! If you agree with me, you're obviously intelligent and insightful. If you don't you're obviously a dumdum and probably secretly support Liverpool and therefore want to sabotage the team!
We fix those two issues, and the attack will be transformed. Mourinho should really try to get Ozil this winter.
The secondary problem with the club right now is the midfield. Our midfield is thin, we've got Pogba and Matic, but that isn't enough. Herrera is a good squad player, but we need to upgrade him so that Pogba and Matic have some more support and help when our midfield starts getting overrun. Our defense is solid, and the issues we've been having are primarily to the secondary issue, our midfield gets overrun.
We need 2 signings right now to plug those two big issues. A replacement for Mkhitaryan and an upgrade on Herrera. Rashford can wait, he is less of a pressing issue, and he may improve with better service from a more consistent number 10.
Tertiary concerns are to upgrade our wingers/full backs. Frankly, Shaw has looked good since his return, I think he might actually come good if the relationship between him the team and Mourinho hasn't been damaged. On the other side we have Valencia, and I am a huge Valencia fanboy. However, he's the brick shithouse we play when we need to be tight at the back and dominate a wing defensively. He is limited in his service going forward and we could certainly use a better attacking option there.
Lastly, we need to stop trying to shoehorn Rashford, Martial and Lukaku into the same team together. Pick two, play them more centrally side by side, and replace whichever is not playing as well as the other around 55-60 min. None of them are suited to play wide imo, although I think Rashford could develop into a solid right sided forward/winger due to his pace and his actually pretty reasonable crossing. Martial has to stop being played wide left to accommodate Lukaku as the lone striker. He's too talented to languish out wide, and its too easy for him to be isolated (I think that's on his mentality). He needs to be put more centrally so he is more involved and can't be isolated.
That's the Nucks breakdown on how to bandaid our issues right now! If you agree with me, you're obviously intelligent and insightful. If you don't you're obviously a dumdum and probably secretly support Liverpool and therefore want to sabotage the team!
What really worries me there's no significant improvement after all we spent we lack that spark that spirit of Manchester United, most of our players are passengers negative and weak, although think Jose did a good job so far and after all if we finish this season runners up or even third it would still be an improvement but not like we all hoped for really, and that will leave us to a very important question IMO what next? Sack him or keep him buy him what he needs or the board won't afford it, it's not going to be pretty.
We have improved a Little bit - but considering how much money we have spent, not enough. So when I read about people claiming that Mourinho has done a good job - I am somewhat puzzled. I still think our win in the Europa League was mostly down to luck. If we had met ONE really good side, we would never have won. But we didn't!
Last season we could not convert our chances. This season we are not creating much either. Rashford does not know how to play as a striker. His movement is terrible. He should give and move into space instead of trying to take on the entire opposing team. This team needs to be taught the basics.
Yes, we have higher standards now that’s why we’re disappointed, granted the last few games been terrible, but still we’re much better now, had city been like they were the past couple of years, we’d be first now.
It’s no coincidence we started played real shitty after we lost the city game, and the lead got even bigger. It’s clear the team is deflated at the moment, we should patient.
It’s no coincidence we started played real shitty after we lost the city game, and the lead got even bigger. It’s clear the team is deflated at the moment, we should patient.
As a team Yes, individually No.
At least now we actually create a good amount of chances to win the game. Under LvG we’d keep the ball, do nothing with it and then get hit on the counter or if we were lucky get a draw.
Individually I think we got worse. Of the players both managers had in common, only Lingard, Rojo and possibly Valencia have gotten better. There’s an argument to be made for Young but LvG favoured him over Di Maria towards the end and he did quite well at times. Other than that everyone’s been worse particularly Herrera, Martial, Blind and Rashford.
At least now we actually create a good amount of chances to win the game. Under LvG we’d keep the ball, do nothing with it and then get hit on the counter or if we were lucky get a draw.
Individually I think we got worse. Of the players both managers had in common, only Lingard, Rojo and possibly Valencia have gotten better. There’s an argument to be made for Young but LvG favoured him over Di Maria towards the end and he did quite well at times. Other than that everyone’s been worse particularly Herrera, Martial, Blind and Rashford.
But surely that loss shouldn’t have deflated us that much. How mentally fragile are we?
Yes we have improved a lot. The defeat to City has floored this team. I believe they were working and hoping to beat them and open up the title race. Instead they lost and the wind has gone completely from their sails. Now it up to Mourinho to pick them up and dust them off, but it won't happen until after the Everton game.
I feel like we have improved because we have better players I don’t really feel like we have been improved much by the manger.
You could argue we have improved defensively but I’m fairly sure had a pretty great defensive record under LVG to.
Our tactics still arnt perticualry exciting. we still do a lot of side ways passing side ways passing, now we though in some long allardyce like balls as well.
So we’ve improved we’ve spend 300 million on quite a few good players.
You could argue we have improved defensively but I’m fairly sure had a pretty great defensive record under LVG to.
Our tactics still arnt perticualry exciting. we still do a lot of side ways passing side ways passing, now we though in some long allardyce like balls as well.
So we’ve improved we’ve spend 300 million on quite a few good players.
LvG and Mourinho actually have very similar philosophies. They both set their teams up the be organised and compact, whilst making as few mistakes as possible and trying to force the opposition into making some of their own. Where they differ, obviously, is in how they approach the play. Van Gaal would recycle possession endlessly, while Jose's team sits off before hitting direct balls.
The broader point is that both managers emphasise individual magic rather than cohesive teamplay to open up the opposition. The problem we had, and still have, is that there is nobody in the advanced positions that has that magic. So in that sense, we've not really progressed. But in every other sense, we're fecking miles better.
The broader point is that both managers emphasise individual magic rather than cohesive teamplay to open up the opposition. The problem we had, and still have, is that there is nobody in the advanced positions that has that magic. So in that sense, we've not really progressed. But in every other sense, we're fecking miles better.
Mourinho is much better at putting fodder teams to the sword, but LVG was better in big games IMO.
Always think of this thread when I want a laugh.
Anyway, two-thirds into the season and we've equaled our goal tally from 15/16 - GF 49 GA 35 with 66 points. And, at 53 points, we're 13 points from equaling our points tally.
With Sanchez on the way, I can see us attaining around 85 points and scoring at least 75 goals. Massive improvements.
Anyway, two-thirds into the season and we've equaled our goal tally from 15/16 - GF 49 GA 35 with 66 points. And, at 53 points, we're 13 points from equaling our points tally.
With Sanchez on the way, I can see us attaining around 85 points and scoring at least 75 goals. Massive improvements.
And we only missed out on top 4 due to GD. fecking hell that was a pathetic season for the top teams. It makes LVG look even more of a failure.
Erm yes.
Massive improvement. Massive. We are hard to beat, teams are genuinely afraid of us, especially at OT, and at times we play attractive attacking football. We do have bad spells, but I m not worried, every team will have bad games in a season, the question is whether you win, draw or lose them. And so far I m happy with the progress we are making. I am confident we will become a powerhouse by next season. I m also predicting City to drop points and us going on a winning streak that will get us close to the top. I also predict a good run in CL, with final being a good prospect since the addition of Sanchez.
Yes but more required to reach the very top.
Yes we have improved but there’s room for much more..thinking back to the game plan v citeh , the Huddersfield game and the points dropped over Xmas .I think we’ve had a good season the points tally this time against 2 seasons ago prove that unfortunate the noisy neighbours have significantly improved which is taking away a bit from some of the good performances this season.
Yes. Yes, we have.
Of course we have, and a couple of meh results doesn't change that. Just like a couple of great results under LVG didn't mean we'd replaced Fergie with someone just as good.
The history books will look back on Van Gaal as one of those guys who hadn't the first clue how to manage a team yet somehow constantly found themselves in big jobs similar to Steve McClaren. Van Gaals success at Ajax and the Dutch national team had far more to do with outrageously talented personnel than managment ability.
Mourinho has brought a winning mentality back and saved us turning into new liverpool. Downside of course is his desperation to win at all costs meaning crazy talented kids get ignored and ready made superstars get bought instead at any cost. Lindelof being bought when we had Tuanzebe right now looks unneccesary. But at least he's developing Martial and he gives us a great chance of winning CL again
Mourinho has brought a winning mentality back and saved us turning into new liverpool. Downside of course is his desperation to win at all costs meaning crazy talented kids get ignored and ready made superstars get bought instead at any cost. Lindelof being bought when we had Tuanzebe right now looks unneccesary. But at least he's developing Martial and he gives us a great chance of winning CL again
Stupid question. We were utter wank under Van Gaal.
Interesting to read all those pessimistic comments back in Dec, all you need is couple of bad games and the world is over.
I think we have improved significantly. Firstly the recruitment strategy is right after a few years (in fact, a decade if you include Fergi's share of poor signing).
Secondly, we are much better on Plan B. LVG never have Plan B. Mourinho is also famous to issue change as early as 46th min, if necessary.
Thirdly, urgency is restored when things go south. I recall a game (under LVG) we were behind, well into extra time, we still played short corner. Perhaps it was LVG's instruction to play short corner regardless of situation?
We dropped a few points because of poor defending, which coincided with a few injury at the back. If we cut this out and improve our attacking options, things will be much improved.
I think we have improved significantly. Firstly the recruitment strategy is right after a few years (in fact, a decade if you include Fergi's share of poor signing).
Secondly, we are much better on Plan B. LVG never have Plan B. Mourinho is also famous to issue change as early as 46th min, if necessary.
Thirdly, urgency is restored when things go south. I recall a game (under LVG) we were behind, well into extra time, we still played short corner. Perhaps it was LVG's instruction to play short corner regardless of situation?
We dropped a few points because of poor defending, which coincided with a few injury at the back. If we cut this out and improve our attacking options, things will be much improved.
Unquestionably yes!What have we improved?Our spine is much much stronger now,our full backs have the freedom to bomb forward,we have 2 terrific midfielders(still short of at least 1 more quality CM),we score more goals and we look more solid while playing a more enterprising brand of football.Plus we have been far more decisive and prudent in the transfer market...out of the 7 players that we have signed under Jose,5 have been unqualified successes(Pogba,Bailly,Ibra,Lukaku,Matic),the jury is still out on 1(Lindelof) and Mikhitaryan has unfortunately failed.
So 5 out of 7 is much much better,we were atrocious under LVG.Even the signings who did reasonably well weren't top class "Man United" type of players.Plus we have more speed and power in the team,so it's clear that we are streets ahead of where we were under LVG.What are we struggling with?Lack of depth in midfield,and lack of cutting edge in the final third and figuring out a system that will consistently get the best out of our best player.I think the signing of Sanchez solves the 2nd problem,but we still need at least 2 quality CM's in the summer and we need to find a way to bring the best out of a Pogba week in,week out...
But all in all,I"m very satisfied with the progress that we have made and the progress that we continue to make under Jose.I think some supporters have probably forgotten how bad we were under LVG,they need to cut Jose some slack...
This is another myth attached to Jose. It's so funny how not many mention the way he has made Lingard twice the player. Martial at this rate may have better goal scoring record than his first season. Shaw is slowly coming back to the groove. Rahsford has featured in every game and apart from last 1 month has always been in top form. And you say he buys ready made superstar and then mention Lindelof. Our squad is filled with many young, inexperienced players so we need ready made superstars which is what Jose is doing.