Have we significantly improved since we got rid of LVG?

[Champagne Football]

That's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard someone say about LvG.

It's ridiculous that you thought I was talking about Van Gaal in that bit when I was clearly referring to Di Matteo

 

[Class of 63]

Nah. Bullshit. Results are similar in the big matches to Van Gaal’s second season and we’re certainly not getting the arse-kickings we occasionally got against big teams under Van Gaal. We’ve only lost one big away game this season and Lukaku missed a sitter which would have left us all square.

The big and really obvious difference between this season and life under Van Gaal (when fecking Leicester won the league) is that City, Liverpool and Chelsea have improved massively. Spurs have improved a bit. Arsenal are Arsenal. Always the same.

Well that's probably got more to do with how the two Managers set us up than any great improvement, LvG was at least prepared to play football against the bigger teams either home or away, so more likely to get 'done' occasionally, whereas Jose just shuts up shop and hopes for a moment of individualism to nick results.

We might have passed for the sake of passing at times under LvG, but at least the players were all comfortable in possession, now we regularly struggle to string 3 or 4 passes together whoever we're playing.

Progress, slow if at all, and considering the money spent.....

 

[RC89]

I'm not bored to feckin tears watching our games, which is a good start for me. Apart form Jose shitting it in some big games think we are a pretty open team if slightly ineffective at times. I would the occasional lack of ambition to the general entertainment malaise under Louis.

Agree with this. While we're not playing breath taking football, it's still a mile away from the shit we played under LVG. Atleast we're taking shots on goal these days. I remember specifically at the time there were some shocking stats with regards to our shots on goal. Jose is gonna get a lot of stick still because our performances against big teams have been underwhelming, maybe even cowardly and we aren't leading the table. Despite that, I'm not bored to death every game AND we weren't winning many games either.

Results are a lot better, football is a lot better. Plenty of room for improvement though.

 

[Bojan11]

Well that's probably got more to do with how the two Managers set us up than any great improvement, LvG was at least prepared to play football against the bigger teams either home or away, so more likely to get 'done' occasionally, whereas Jose just shuts up shop and hopes for a moment of individualism to nick results.

We might have passed for the sake of passing at times under LvG, but at least the players were all comfortable in possession, now we regularly struggle to string 3 or 4 passes together whoever we're playing.

Progress, slow if at all, and considering the money spent.....

LVG was up against Brenton and Pellegrini. Big difference between them and Klopp/Pep.

 

[Tarrou]

We're steadily improving I'd say. Sanchez is a world class player coming into one of our weaker positions too, assuming he replaced Mata.

 

[Nakhon Phanom]

Van Gaal was a good manager in his day but certainly that day had passed when he was sacked from Bayern Munich.
His tactics and thinking were well outdated by the time he joined United.That second season was absolutely abysmal.He took all the enjoyment out of watching the game and it was a miracle if we had more than two efforts on goal in the whole 90 minutes.
OK,he did well getting the Dutch to the semi finals of the 2014 World Cup but they were a dour physical side who could grind out the results.
How people can say we haven't improved since he left is crazy.We are not the finished article but we are getting there and signing Sanchez is a great coup,no matter what the cost.

 

[AR87]

The City loss and 3 poor results in the holiday period had people way over the top negative. We're clearly better in our play style, results and long term potential. IMO this summer Mourinho will put the finishing touches on a squad that should be pushing for the title all the way next season and be a force in Europe. After that we will be in a position to spend money on bidding for elite young talents to develop and eventually take over for some of the older star performers in the squad like Matic, Sanchez (still can't believe this!!) and Valencia.

He has yet to really prove that he can spot a rough diamond bargain and turn them into a superstar like some other managers have.

He bought Azpi for 7m at Chelsea and he's widely considered one of, if not the best, defender in the Prem. And honestly how many top managers at top clubs are spotting rough diamond bargins and shaping them into stars nowadays? Few and far between if not entirely non-existent at this point.

Edit: I checked and actually Azpi was bought a year before Mourinho's return. My bad!

 

[quethenoo]

Agree with this. While we're not playing breath taking football, it's still a mile away from the shit we played under LVG. Atleast we're taking shots on goal these days. I remember specifically at the time there were some shocking stats with regards to our shots on goal. Jose is gonna get a lot of stick still because our performances against big teams have been underwhelming, maybe even cowardly and we aren't leading the table. Despite that, I'm not bored to death every game AND we weren't winning many games either.

Results are a lot better, football is a lot better. Plenty of room for improvement though.

Yeah that's it in a nutshell for me mate.

 

[meamth]

We came a long way since we had Tevez - Ronaldo - Rooney for our attack.

Now we have one of the best attack (on paper) at least.

Martial - Lukaku - Sanchez - Pogba.

Immense progress.

 

[peridigm]

Does a bear shit in the woods?



We’re scoring more
We’ve won more

 

[Kapardin]

I think we need to stop comparing Mourinho to mediocre managers like LvG and Moyes. The latter two set the bar so low that anyone can be considered an improvement over them.

I rate Mourinho as slightly above average (quantifying it as 6.5/10 score, so to speak) so far in his tenure. He's won trophies and is signing mostly quality players as opposed to dross. Considering the squad he inherited, that's fine. There's clear room for improvement in both tactics and personnel, but we are headed in the right direction.

 

[Drawfull]

Well that's probably got more to do with how the two Managers set us up than any great improvement, LvG was at least prepared to play football against the bigger teams either home or away, so more likely to get 'done' occasionally, whereas Jose just shuts up shop and hopes for a moment of individualism to nick results.

We might have passed for the sake of passing at times under LvG, but at least the players were all comfortable in possession, now we regularly struggle to string 3 or 4 passes together whoever we're playing.

Progress, slow if at all, and considering the money spent.....

That's ridiculous regarding players being more comfortable in possession. Once teams figured out that all we were going to do under LVG was pass sideways and backwards, offering little penetration in the vast majority of games, they let us have the ball. Any player can pass and look composed when under no pressure whatsoever.

In fact, wasn't one of Jose's first comments along the lines of, "I can pass perfectly when no one is on me."?

We've improved markedly as a team. Under LVG I actually ended up buying a season ticket for my local, 3rd division Spanish team as I wasn't that bothered about missing our games on a Sunday, and knew I'd be more entertained watching amateur players in meaningless (to me) matches rather than tuning in to another LVG borefest. I didn't renew it once he was gone.

We're more creative, more positive, faster, more pleasing to watch and much more of a 'team' than we ever were under LVG. It's night and day.

 

[midnightmare]

Amazing that this is even a question. Should we look at goals scored, games won, points on the board, league position, trophies won or just at CL status? We're better all over the pitch and it's amusing in a way that people can question this. Also, we can only improve. Even now, with where we are, there are still clear improvement areas that the management and the team are working on. We're on the upswing, have a midfield that's not Carrick-dependent (at last), a defence that's keeping things tight without needing 2 or 3 midfielders to shield them at all times, an attack that doesn't look like it's wading through cement and still have attackers who are all (barring Sanchez) under 25. Martial, Rashford, Lukaku will all improve further with time and Sanchez is ready-made class. All said and done, comparing with the LvG days is absolutely bizarre.

 

[gorky_utd]

What really impresses me about jose is his transfer dealings. He is miles above lvg in that respect. Just compare the signings made by both managers.

 

[sammsky1]

We have improved but not enough.

Why not? How can we have done any better?

 

[midnightmare]

What really impresses me about jose is his transfer dealings. He is miles above lvg in that respect. Just compare the signings made by both managers.

Absolutely. We're back to being top dogs in the transfer market and are winning battles. We're also clearly working with a much tighter ship! There are barely any leaks and no embarrassment ensuing in the aftermath. Another thing is that the buying is clearly targeted; we know where and what we need and get it. Hence the sole failure being Mkhi. All others have been successful. Lindelof needs time, but I'm convinced he's got what it takes based on his recent showings. His on-the-ball skills are far ahead of all our other CBs!

Why not? How can we have done any better?

Some will just crib because we've not won every single game and stayed ahead of City - conveniently ignoring that we have a far "younger" squad in terms of playing together - specially in the attacking third, where the difference has really come from - and where players need time to gel! City's forwards and midfield have been playing together all of last season too (and looked a lot more disjointed then, like we do now), but most will paper over this, if they have the "I don't like Jose" agenda that the Press would like to inculcate.

 

[Lentwood]

I know I am in a minority but I actually think Van Gaal-ball could have worked

Especially against the big clubs it was incredibly effective. City 4-2, Juanfield and Tottenham 3-0 spring immediately to mind

LvGs problem was his signings imo. In this respect Jose is miles ahead

 

[antohan]

We never ever looked worthy of being second or hopeful of mounting any sort of challenge under LvG. We were basically where Arsenal is now, chasing the pack and hoping others slipped to fluke a CL qualification. Only difference is LvG did manage to get some good results against the top sides.

We have room for improvement, but are moving in the right direction. And no, I'm not even factoring in the Sanchez optimism that has engulfed the caf. My only expectation there is that over the next few months we integrate him and hopefully the attack starts clicking and knowing what they are playing at 80% of the time.

 

[Ish]

IMO, we weren't that much better with possession of the ball under LvG. Teams just allowed us to have the ball as we were fairly non threatening. When we were pressed, we also gave away possession quite a bit.

What I will say though, is that the most comfortable few times I've seen us counter the press, was when LvG used Fellaini quite effectively and played balls over to him, to chest and bring down.

 

[Revaulx]

LVG needed a different set of players to succeed. He thought that he can get his philosophy working but for that to work he needed players with technical ability and vision. He had none and that is the main reason why he got so boring and failed.
Look at the players he had at Ajax. Blind and Rijkaard. One of the best pair of defenders in the world. VDS in goal. Seedorf and Davids in midfield. Litmanen as the playmaker. Kluivert and Kanu up on top. Overmars on the wing. All of these players would get into a european best 11 including subs.
With us he had an over the hill Rooney, Mike Smalling etc. While only DeGea can be equal to anyone in that team.

Mike Smalling was great for LvG.

He was given vast amounts of cash to spend on players that would be able to fulfil his philosophy but, other than Blind and Martial, utterly failed to do so. He has only himself to blame for this.

 

[Grande]

Knee jerk thread From a short term memory.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Drastically in my opinion. LVG achieved an awful lot in the game and was a pioneer in some ways but his tactics just didn't take with us.

I personally think this team would have won the league the year Leicester won it. I also think Van Gaal's team would be a lot further behind this season.

 

[Class of 63]

LVG was up against Brenton and Pellegrini. Big difference between them and Klopp/Pep.

Not sure what who the respective Managers were up against has to do with how we currently play, but i'll give you Klopp and Pep probably are ungrades, but Liverpool were one famous slip away from winning the League under BR, and Pellegrini's City romped to the League regularly scoring 5's, 6's and 7's, and if it hadn't been for the occasional brainfart away from home would've been as good if not better on the eye than Pep's current side.

 

[Ikon]

What really impresses me about jose is his transfer dealings. He is miles above lvg in that respect. Just compare the signings made by both managers.

Not just the players coming into the club either.
Getting almost £50M on the sales of Depay & Schneiderlin was outstandingly good negotiation, and effectively we've also got £35M for Mkhi in a swap for Sanchez..!!

Then you think about how we stunned everyone by landing Pogba, Lukaku & Sanchez..!!
MUFC under Jose have been fantastic in the market.

 

[Womp]

I know I am in a minority but I actually think Van Gaal-ball could have worked

Especially against the big clubs it was incredibly effective. City 4-2, Juanfield and Tottenham 3-0 spring immediately to mind

LvGs problem was his signings imo. In this respect Jose is miles ahead

Don't think so. We were largely shite, those teams were just shite too. Had the teams been as strong as they are now, we'd of gotten fecked imo

 

[sunama]

Does a bear shit in the woods?



We’re scoring more
We’ve won more

I think this answers the question.

 

[superdry]

Definitely yes, even though we're not playing anywhere near our potential yet.
The addition of Sanchez is going to crank us up another level.

 

[Wumminator]

Definitely yes, even though we're not playing anywhere near our potential yet.
The addition of Sanchez is going to crank us up another level.

I don't think it has. I think we've gone backwards.

This thread is certainly very thought provoking. Been reading it on my break.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't think it has. I think we've gone backwards.

This thread is certainly very thought provoking. Been reading it on my break.

Despite fecking oodles of evidence to the contrary. You lost touch with reality a long time ago, mind you. The whole Van Gaal thing broke something inside you which may never grow back.

 

[Wumminator]

Despite fecking oodles of evidence to the contrary. You lost touch with reality a long time ago, mind you. The whole Van Gaal thing broke something inside you which may never grow back.

We've gone backwards since Sanchez come in that post means Pogue.

 

[Hitchez]

I know watching us is painful these days but fecking hell, LVG was ten times worse.

We're absolutely miles better in ever sense. Performance, players, entertainment, tactics and league position.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We've gone backwards since Sanchez come in that post means Pogue.

Ah. Good point. Still far too early (and too many other variables) to decide that signing Sanchez won't "crank us up another level". I've been really impressed by his creativity. The longer he plays in this team the more he'll create. Just needs the other players around him to start returning the favour, as well as those behind him to get their shit together and build a better platform to create.

 

[witchtrials]

LVG was ten times worse.

We're absolutely miles better in ever sense. Performance, players, entertainment, tactics and league position.

Well this isn't literally true, since van Gaal's average league finish was 4.5th and in Mourinho's only complete season we were 6th. Maybe it has some kind of poetic truth though.

 

[Gareth williams]

You've obviously improved a lot since Moyes and VG but I'm really not sure you've improved beyond the fact you've pumped vast sums in terms of transfers. Won't be overly popular on here but i think very little of the improvement is down to mourinho over VG or Moyes and really just down to a continued massive spend.

I'm not convinced mourinho is a top manager anymore.

 

[shamans]

We're utter crap but yeah we're better than LVG. That was another level of being crap.

 

[shamans]

You've obviously improved a lot since Moyes and VG but I'm really not sure you've improved beyond the fact you've pumped vast sums in terms of transfers. Won't be overly popular on here but i think very little of the improvement is down to mourinho over VG or Moyes and really just down to a continued massive spend.

I'm not convinced mourinho is a top manager anymore.

After Moyes we regressed. LVG further pushed us down a terrible style of football. Mourinho has had to recover us from that. Not sure if he really has. We are certainly better but not "significantly"

 

[Keeps It tidy]

We're utter crap but yeah we're better than LVG. That was another level of being crap.

Exactly.

 

[Hitchez]

Well this isn't literally true, since van Gaal's average league finish was 4.5th and in Mourinho's only complete season we were 6th. Maybe it has some kind of poetic truth though.

What about the two trophies not to mention qualification for the knock out rounds?

 

[LawCharltonBest]

On paper it's a good season.

Fa Cup quarters, CL KO's, 2nd in the league.

Football has been boring though and we aren't getting enough out of our best players

 

[shamans]

On paper it's a good season.

Fa Cup quarters, CL KO's, 2nd in the league.

Football has been boring though and we aren't getting enough out of our best players

The thing is it could VERY easily turn into 4th/5th place finish, out of CL and out of FA cup.