Off-ball movement

[Skills]

It kills us again, and again and again. Repeated theme for years now, when are we finally going to realise that we need to start moving off the ball to make space for some passing. We're especially exposed against teams who press well, because it's so easy to cut off static lanes.

Why are we so passive in possession? All of our players just wait for the ball to be passed to feet, hardly anyone makes runs off the ball or make themselves available for a pass. Are they all just lazy feckers who can't be arsed to move for it unless they're sure they'll get the ball? Any decent team I've watched recently constantly move, and players dip in and out making runs/dummy runs to make space for their team mates. Why can't we do that?

 

[kouroux]

Sanchez is gonna get a harsh reality check pretty soon. He's used to football with movement at Arsenal - Chile (let's not even talk about Barca years ago).

 

[Igor Drefljak]

Edit: Ignore me

 

[Kag]

Coaching. Or lack of.

Been the same for years and it won't change no matter who we buy. Again, been saying it for years.

 

[Drainy]

Martial and Lukaku are the worst. Straight line runs 90% of the time.

 

[Judas]

We're badly coached, simple as that, it needs properly investigating. Our attack should be a lot better with the talent we have. It's a troubling issue.

 

[pascell]

Lukaku the main culprit, if he doesn't move and stays deep, everything else breaks down.

When you look at the energy levels and movement of Spurs, we were absolutely nowhere near the same level.

 

[Minimalist]

Sanchez is gonna get a harsh reality check pretty soon. He's used to football with movement at Arsenal - Chile (let's not even talk about Barca years ago).

This is similar to what I thought whenever people spoke of Griezmann last summer - like him coming in would change everything.

Bar Sanchez's individual brilliance, I fear you're going to see much of the same in future. Disjointed attacking with players looking like they do feck all in training to address it.

 

[Catt]

Coaching. Or lack of.

Been the same for years and it won't change no matter who we buy. Again, been saying it for years.

Do you think it would help to change manager?

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Thinking exactly this while watching. Even when we pressed Spurs (which was little and airy fairy), they had an out ball?

Each of their players (without the ball) just edged into a gap so as soon as their teammates got the ball, they had one, two, three options.

We get the ball and you can see four, five United players standing still facing but NOT MOVING.

Poor.

 

[Yagami]

Sanchez is gonna get a harsh reality check pretty soon. He's used to football with movement at Arsenal - Chile (let's not even talk about Barca years ago).

Yep. You could see he was already getting frustrated against Yeovil. We are so poorly coached.

Coaching. Or lack of.

Been the same for years and it won't change no matter who we buy. Again, been saying it for years.

Again, I agree. No idea what José's playing at.

 

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

It was the same back in the days of SAF's zombie passing and got worse with LVG. I don't understand why people don't adress this. The good and old argentinean "toco y me voy" (a simple one-two) could do wonders for us.


EDIT: And I also don't understand the overuse of the fecking long balls. Play with the ball on the ground, bunch of motherfeckers! Retain possession, recycle the ball!

 

[kouroux]

This is similar to what I thought whenever people spoke of Griezmann last summer - like him coming in would change everything.

Bar Sanchez's individual brilliance, I fear you're going to see much of the same in future. Disjointed attacking with players looking like they do feck all in training to address it.

Yup. Our entire season is based on individual performances, many of our goals have been brilliant shots from long range. You're not gonna many resulting from a sequence of passing and interchaning. Alexis excels at that but we don't as a team in general, instead of him elevating us, I'm afraid we're about to lower his best level.

 

[Kag]

Do you think it would help to change manager?

Could another manager get Lukaku, Pogba, Martial and now Sanchez scoring lots of goals in a fantastic attacking team? Absolutely.

So if Mourinho can't, then yes, that's right.

This isn't kneejerk either. I've been criticising this for over twelve months of Mourinho's tenure now. So I'm consistent at least.

 

[Skills]

Yup. Our entire season is based on individual performances, many of our goals have been brilliant shots from long range. You're not gonna many resulting from a sequence of passing and interchaning. Alexis excels at that but we don't as a team in general, instead of him elevating us, I'm afraid we're about to lower his best level.

Alexis Sanchez - dead wood. Coming to you soon

 

[Catt]

Could another manager get Lukaku, Pogba, Martial and now Sanchez scoring lots of goals in a fantastic attacking team? Absolutely.

So if Mourinho can't, then yes, that's right.

This isn't kneejerk either. I've been criticising this for over twelve months of Mourinho's tenure now. So I'm consistent at least.

I'm not having a go as I have thought so myself. We should absolutely get more from our attacking players.

 

[BluesJr]

We need to start pressing like a modern team also.

 

[kouroux]

Even if there is a terrible game here and there where is working for you, the team should have some sort of safety net in terms of playing style/mentality. Like something you can revert to in order to create something. As soon as there is a bit of difficult, we completely collapse (even if the response was good for conceding the 1st goal).

 

[Minimalist]

Do you think it would help to change manager?

I think it's really worrying that a lot of posters on here seem to think it's unthinkable that a manager other than Mourinho could get more out of the team in an attacking sense.

I expected much better attacking from Mourinho. I didn't really buy into this idea that he ruins attackers. I don't think he does but I have no idea what he trains them to do and what he expects in the final third.

 

[Catt]

I think it's really worrying that a lot of posters on here seem to think it's unthinkable that a manager other than Mourinho could get more out of the team in an attacking sense.

I expected much better attacking from Mourinho. I didn't really buy into this idea that he ruins attackers. I don't think he does but I have no idea what he trains them to do and what he expects in the final third.

I'm in two minds about this. Undecided if Mourinho is the right man going forward.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Nothing new.

Our problems go deeper than just needing the best players.

Even Messi in the team would have struggled today to impose himself.

Our attacking patterns and structure are so bad most of the time. Too much reliance on individual brilliance. It's all nice and well, but if said players can't provide that, you've nothing to fall back on and you get a disjointed mess like we've seen so many times in the big games.

Even our build-up from the back is terrible. We get pressed to ease by just 1 player initiating to press(seen it happen so many times). When there's a coordinated press(like today), we completely shit the bed from the back.

And our reliance to hoof the ball constantly. We might be the worst aerial team I've ever seen despite our size.

 

[kouroux]

I'm in two minds about this. Undecided if Mourinho is the right man going forward.

Personally I'm not. I don't see Mourinho as the right man going forward, I'm willing to support his team while he's here. I have never rated him that highly before and seeing him managing United has made my opinion of him worse.

 

[Skills]

I'm in two minds about this. Undecided if Mourinho is the right man going forward.

Well he better be, we just gave him a new contract with a payrise.

 

[Catt]

Well he better be, we just gave him a new contract with a payrise.

I know. I think we have looked good at times this season, but we do struggle against decent opposition away in particular.

 

[The Nani]

Yet again of late we have been so static. No movement or urgency off the ball and no options for the player in possession. Seemed to improve briefly when Ole was hired, but we have reverted to the mean. And today was peak LvG.

To his credit, Mata changed the match today when Ole moved him central. Was the only player making himself available consistently. Then we went back to the same tumescent crap when he came off.

When is this gonna get sorted? So frustrating.

 

[pocco]

Could another manager get Lukaku, Pogba, Martial and now Sanchez scoring lots of goals in a fantastic attacking team? Absolutely.

So if Mourinho can't, then yes, that's right.

This isn't kneejerk either. I've been criticising this for over twelve months of Mourinho's tenure now. So I'm consistent at least.

New manager, same issues. Do you still think the first paragraph is true?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

After a bright start under OGS, this issue has massively crept in again.

 

[TwoSheds]

Yet again of late we have been so static. No movement or urgency off the ball and no options for the player in possession. Seemed to improve briefly when Ole was hired, but we have reverted to the mean. And today was peak LvG.

To his credit, Mata changed the match today when Ole moved him central. Was the only player making himself available consistently. Then we went back to the same tumescent crap when he came off.

When is this gonna get sorted? So frustrating.

Be fair, Rashford's movement was top drawer today. Martial, Pogba and to a lesser extent Herrera and Mata were shocking at times though. The number of times the ball went in the box and no United player was anywhere close to being available...same dumb mistakes from the same players who don't look like they want it enough. Luckily the rest of their games have improved a lot post Mourinho otherwise we'd be in real trouble, but attacking movement is a real fundamental, if they can't do it we'll never get back to the top.

 

[ValenciaRocks]

Agreed here for the majority of the game there was a lack of dynamic runs to pull their defensive shape out of position.

There was a spell after rashfords goal in the first half where we pushed forward and boxed them in. We had some great play down the wings, cutting back and laying off passes through into the box. It was neat first touch football.

Then came the second half, we looked like we were managed by Mourinho (sorry ole but it's true). I understand that we needed to be careful with only a 1 goal cushion, but, had it not been for an absolutely fanstastic display from Jones and Smalling (Shaw at times too) - we would of conceded more goals for sure.

Mata looked much better in the middle - I've been saying this for years - he is not a wide player. He has to play central otherwise he is ineffective.

Anyway, I'm sure Ole and Phelan will be aware of all this. But yesterday's game in my opinion was the worst we've played since Ole took charge. Thank god for the Pirloesque ball from Shaw and Rashfords cool finishing. We won't get away with it every time.

 

[Canagel]

It kills us again, and again and again. Repeated theme for years now, when are we finally going to realise that we need to start moving off the ball to make space for some passing. We're especially exposed against teams who press well, because it's so easy to cut off static lanes.

Why are we so passive in possession? All of our players just wait for the ball to be passed to feet, hardly anyone makes runs off the ball or make themselves available for a pass. Are they all just lazy feckers who can't be arsed to move for it unless they're sure they'll get the ball? Any decent team I've watched recently constantly move, and players dip in and out making runs/dummy runs to make space for their team mates. Why can't we do that?

It's also the responsibility of the coaching staff to work on it with the players. Off the ball moving doesn't suddenly come come from nowhere.
I thought we was on track after oles first game. Movement, interchanges, one touch fluid football but lately we've gone back to our old ways again.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I thought Rashfords movement today was probably the best I’ve ever seen from him.

The midfield looked so unfit though, Herrera and Matic were running in sand and couldn’t get close to Watford’s midfield which was weird.

we just never really controlled the game or had enough of the ball to sit them back and start interchanging. It was a poor game from us.

If we play Matic / Herrera again against wolves I think we will struggle.

 

[Hoof the ball]

It's been pointed out before, but automation is a massive issue for United, and has been for a number of years. The only time in the last game where there was anything resembling an off-ball move was when Shaw followed on an overlap and the ball was incisively played inside the full-back for him to run onto.
Channels are where it's at these days. Pre-planned, drilled moves where players occupy channels in the box for an easy pull-back across goal. It's effectively every single goal City score.

Full-backs, forwards, advanced midfielders all should be interchanging runs into channels in the 18 yard box. Runs not only vertically, but horizontally along the opposition defensive line. As has been pointed out, these things simply don't happen on instinct. Not in any consistent and coordinated fashion, anyhow. Far be it from me, a football fan, to critique professional coaches and the like, but, even professional coaching needs to regularly grow, develop and implement new and dynamic approaches to games. We are a giant of this game; an institution and we should be on the forefront of such things, and never playing catchup.

That's what happened with Sir Alex and Carlos Queiroz. He saw that there was a tactical shift and he needed the right delegation to oversee the transition. Queiroz helped us in that regard. We're now at the precipice of that need, once more, and if Ole is anything like Sir Alex inasmuch as he has learned from him, then it'll be interesting to see how he accomplishes this moving forward.

 

[Kag]

New manager, same issues. Do you still think the first paragraph is true?

Yes, I do - Sanchez aside (he looks like a lost cause). Have you been in a coma for the past four months or have you wilfully waited for your moment to justify your earlier point of view? It seems like the latter.

We’ve been shite against Watford and Wolves but injuries haven’t been kind to us. I also think that other sides have begun to figure out our diamond, so Ole will have to deal with that and adapt.

 

[pocco]

Yes, I do - Sanchez aside (he looks like a lost cause). Have you been in a coma for the past four months or have you wilfully waited for your moment to justify your earlier point of view? It seems like the latter.

We’ve been shite against Watford and Wolves but injuries haven’t been kind to us. I also think that other sides have begun to figure out our diamond, so Ole will have to deal with that and adapt.

We haven't looked a 'fantastic attacking team' in ages. I think you're idea of this is very different from mine. Just look through the threads on here and most of the players you listed are getting pelters. I'd hardly day Ole has got those players functioning anywhere near the level you predicted, but i don't blame the manager for that.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

It's been pointed out before, but automation is a massive issue for United, and has been for a number of years. The only time in the last game where there was anything resembling an off-ball move was when Shaw followed on an overlap and the ball was incisively played inside the full-back for him to run onto.
Channels are where it's at these days. Pre-planned, drilled moves where players occupy channels in the box for an easy pull-back across goal. It's effectively every single goal City score.

Full-backs, forwards, advanced midfielders all should be interchanging runs into channels in the 18 yard box. Runs not only vertically, but horizontally along the opposition defensive line. As has been pointed out, these things simply don't happen on instinct. Not in any consistent and coordinated fashion, anyhow. Far be it from me, a football fan, to critique professional coaches and the like, but, even professional coaching needs to regularly grow, develop and implement new and dynamic approaches to games. We are a giant of this game; an institution and we should be on the forefront of such things, and never playing catchup.

That's what happened with Sir Alex and Carlos Queiroz. He saw that there was a tactical shift and he needed the right delegation to oversee the transition. Queiroz helped us in that regard. We're now at the precipice of that need, once more, and if Ole is anything like Sir Alex inasmuch as he has learned from him, then it'll be interesting to see how he accomplishes this moving forward.

Great post.

We showed good signs of this against Cardiff, but it's progressively gotten worse and worse until it's fully disappeared.

We need a huge summer in terms of tactical prep from Ole and the coaching staff.

 

[passing-wind]

100% a coaching issue, and it has been a problem even with Ole at the helm. The only consistent period I remember us playing with adequate movement persistently was when Queiroz was our assistant.

Far too long ago, unfortunately don't think it's a simple case of better players coming in and suddenly we are able to adopt a more imposing possession system.

Klopp managed to get to the UCL final with Milner and Henderson occupying midfield because of the clear instructive coaching. Between Matic, Herrera and Pogba Solskjaer needs to get them passing between one another, it's embarrassing at times.

There's no way we are going to challenge for top honours without having an identity when in possession, some of the sessions of play has been championship pedigree.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

May not be 100% the issue but If we had Scholes we would have a reason to make runs.

Having Herrera play a ball to feet every pass needs a different type of running resembling stagnation whilst Pogba seems to only have a level of creativity that occurs in some of the free spaced matches.

Get a Scholes in & then we can talk about the lack of movement in my opinion.

 

[ash_86]

May not be 100% the issue but If we had Scholes we would have a reason to make runs.

Having Herrera play a ball to feet every pass needs a different type of running resembling stagnation whilst Pogba seems to only have a level of creativity that occurs in some of the free spaced matches.

Get a Scholes in & then we can talk about the lack of movement in my opinion.

This is true. How many times i have seen our forwards try to make a run and our mids/defense decide to go sideways. Herrera and Young defiantly fall under that category. All 3 liverpool forwards make runs as soon as their defenders get the ball. That's how they made the first goal against Bayern at allianz arena. Trust and confidence between forwards and players in other position is very important.

 

[Water Melon]

It is really frustrating to see us ignoring our most important chronic problem for years. I can not even figure out why we have not addressed this issue. Passing between the lines, off the ball movement, link-up play have been out of our playing regime for years. It really is inexplainable and baffling.

 

[The Nani]

This is true. How many times i have seen our forwards try to make a run and our mids/defense decide to go sideways. Herrera and Young defiantly fall under that category. All 3 liverpool forwards make runs as soon as their defenders get the ball. That's how they made the first goal against Bayern at allianz arena. Trust and confidence between forwards and players in other position is very important.

Are you really lauding Liverpool’s central midfield’s passing range? We’re talking about Jordan Henderson and James Milner. Wijnaldum is quite decent but no better than Herrera and nowhere near Pogba in that aspect.

Quite simply, Liverpool’s front three and overall movement is a million times better than ours. Thus, they get away with playing two grafters in midfield.