Yeah, I never got that too at the time. It was a real opportunity missed.
Mousa Dembele
- Thread starter SCP
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A midfielder like him is what we should be looking for to partner Pogba and Matic.
He was fantastic last night. Reminded me of how he used to boss our midfield when he was back at fulham.
Dembele is worldclass at shielding the ball and moving it ahead. But sadly, thats the only thing he's good at. To be ranked among the greats one has to have some semblance of end product, Dembele is very poor at that, which is part of the reason why he's at Spurs at 30. I remember last year against Arsenal he carried the ball from half way line, but couldn't find a pass and didn't even get a shot off. He ended up reaching the box where he was fouled(while trying to get the ball off him) and he earned a penalty for Spurs. Thats about the only way he can contribute to the offensive side of things.
His skills are being put at their best use at Spurs because there he's surrounded by players that he can immediately lay the ball off to and who'll put it to good use. He wins the midfield battle allowing the likes of Eriksen, and Alli a platform to go ahead and do their thing. But to be ranked as a world class CM you need to have a long distance shot or a telling pass in you. If you compare him to Wilshere, both of them play a similar role at CM(wilshere's even bulked up a bit and resembles dembele physically) and while Dembele might be better than Wilshere at holding the ball, Wilshere is miles better when it comes to making a goal or an assist. Unfortunately for Dembele its productivity in the attacking third that truly sets apart the worlds best from the rest and he falls short in that vital metric.
I've also got a suspicion a lot of his form(and that of the rest of the spurs players with the exception of Kane) is in a large part due to being a part of a well oiled system which makes the best use of their abilities. I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop a level if taken out of that team. A lot of credit goes to Pochettino for getting them playing the way they are.
His skills are being put at their best use at Spurs because there he's surrounded by players that he can immediately lay the ball off to and who'll put it to good use. He wins the midfield battle allowing the likes of Eriksen, and Alli a platform to go ahead and do their thing. But to be ranked as a world class CM you need to have a long distance shot or a telling pass in you. If you compare him to Wilshere, both of them play a similar role at CM(wilshere's even bulked up a bit and resembles dembele physically) and while Dembele might be better than Wilshere at holding the ball, Wilshere is miles better when it comes to making a goal or an assist. Unfortunately for Dembele its productivity in the attacking third that truly sets apart the worlds best from the rest and he falls short in that vital metric.
I've also got a suspicion a lot of his form(and that of the rest of the spurs players with the exception of Kane) is in a large part due to being a part of a well oiled system which makes the best use of their abilities. I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop a level if taken out of that team. A lot of credit goes to Pochettino for getting them playing the way they are.
Sadly, this is the minimum I thought Pogba would do for us, but it turns out he is not a CM at all.
Every time I have seen Dembele, I have never understood how people don't rave about him. He bosses the midfield all by himself. Just needs a little help, that is all.
Every time I have seen Dembele, I have never understood how people don't rave about him. He bosses the midfield all by himself. Just needs a little help, that is all.
He was brilliant at Fulham too, so it’s not the ‘system’. Also he plays deep enough to negate the need to really provide goals and assists. Take last night for example - he had Eriksen, Alli, Lamela and Kane in front of him. 4 pure attacking players. His job was not to score and create, theirs was. He did what was required of him and was arguably MOTM.
He's closer to Yaya Toure in his pomp (except passing ability).
And impact in final third, basically nothing like Yaya except physical strength.
I think you severely underestimate the value of having a player who can break through the first line of defence when facing a balanced opposition, and use his strength on the ball to effectively transition from defence to attack during counter opportunities. We're so poor at both aspects of the game, Dembele would have strengthened us immensely.
Other than that, I agree that his limited end product means that he's not necessarily a "great", but he's still a perfect fit for a Spurs side that's otherwise brimming with goals and assist.
Not denying he's very good, but he's a step down from the very top level of CM's in his mould Viera,Toure, Pogba(not there yet, but has got the potential). These cms do everything, provide stability, goals, assists everything.
Think he’s got a bit of a gammy hip. Not sure how much longer he can injury free.
Obvious signing we should have made from Fulham most of the cafe agreed at the time but for some reason SAF decided against it. I don’t think he’s the complete midfielder as he lacks wing mirrors when receiving from his defence but his strength and technique is a joy to watch. Would have been a very good signing for us.
By that do you mean he doesn't see wide men in good positions?
Their was lots of people saying we should sign him before he went to spurs, and lots of rumours in the press say we were intrested, I dunno if their was anything ever in it, but considering all the problems we've had in midfield over the last 6 years he would have been a great signing as he has out performed every single midfielder we have had in that time.
You suggest he's a step down from 'these'... and list three with a caveat about Pogba. So essentially a step down from two great players at the top level. Being, by your own admission better than Pogba ( whose incredible talent remains latent apparently) he may indeed be not only better than Pogba but almost a ' top level' player in that position.
ImI struck by the number of posters who wish United had bought him ( and Erikson, Kane,Alli, Alderweireld, Rose, Vertonghen and dream of tempting Poch to OT).
A pattern emerges, albeit reluctantly and piecemeal.
Shame his fitness is probably the only thing stopping him being world class. The strength, defensive and ball carrying part of his game in CM is absolutely different gear.
I can only hope he stays injury free and is available for the World Cup. We could have a midfield three of Dembele, Nainggolan and De Bruyne. Knowing Martinez though, we'll probably end up with a midfield two of Witsel and De Bruyne. Just let that sink in.
He's come so far from the blind dribbler he was when playing for AZ. Always saw the talent, but his decision making was very poor and he always seemed to have blinders on. Far cry from the midfield force he is today. A lot of ex Eredivisie gems in this Spurs team; Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Eriksen, Sanchez and Dembele.
They're like Ajax if they had enough money to keep their star players.
They're like Ajax if they had enough money to keep their star players.
Damn you guys are so far ahead of us.
Couldn't agree more. I've been harping on about him for years since he was at Fulham and can't believe no one else has come in for him, especially us, who are crying out for someone like him.
Would love him at United, but don't think it will happen now sadly.
Flaming ell', not all players (midfielders, forwards etc) are the same. Gerrard and Lampard were different players in many ways.
Dembele is a terrific player, I recall him dominating a game at OT whilst at Fulham a few seasons back. He was the main reason Tottenham turned the game around yesterday... he allowed Erikson to find those areas to pick those killer passes from (not sure what Buffong was doing for the second goal...).
Dembele has all the talent to play for any of the top sides, as he now does of course. Seems like he is hitting some consistency, which is what he has been accused of lacking.
That Tottenham side is pretty, pretty impressive. Think they will get better too.
That's just on paper, it's not going to happen. Still, it would be fascinating to see those three at the top of their game in the same midfield.
And Fellaini up front?
A top level midfielder is expected to do everything himself without relying on others. Theoretically you should be able to build a team around him. Dembele will work brilliantly in a Utd midfield, but thats only because Utd already have a Pogba and Matic.
Dembele was always class and is consistently showing it now, always wanted him from Fulham days but always told by other fans though he was not Man Utd quality. That old chestnut.
No something Fergie said about when he receives the ball of deeper players (defenders especially) he is not aware of what is around him. I’ve watched him and SAF is spot on his body shape is poor in these positions but his overall game is more than enough to merit a game here.
Fergie said this about Dembele specifically?
I feel the issue with Dembele in relation to MUFC of the time when he was at Fulham is that we were accustomed to Scholes and Carrick as well as the beast version of Fletcher, so a lot of players with deficiencies were dismissed because they weren't the ready-made equals of the aforementioned names. It happened with a lot of players at the time we were in need of replacements - any minor holes in their game and they were not deemed successors to the likes of Scholes and the Holy Grail search of the next Keane.
It wasn't just Dembele that suffered because of the standard of player we regarded then. Modric was seen as a joke on here when he was coming up at Spurs, too, with only the poster Scholesy and a handful of others championing him and believing he could go all the way as a player.
When you're setting your sights on the technical acumen of a Thiago or the all-round brilliance of a prime Vidal, it makes sense why a midfielder whose passing was average and shooting atrocious, was dismissed as below par.
My take on Dembele was that we could have worked on his weaknesses whilst benefitting greatly from the strengths he already had in his game. He was always top percentile as a dribbler through midfield and was always a nightmare to dispossess, so even if he couldn't shoot nor pass very well, there would have been nothing wrong in having someone like him getting the ball to other players that could.
Unfortunately, there isn't a youngster coming through with the same skilset as Dembele, but if there was, we should pounce on him because the ability to retain possession and go past players completely changes the way you can approach the game. It forces opposing midfields to plan and accommodate those runs and break rank from their positions to go and double up on the dribbler, in turn, that free up others in the midfield to do their thing. It's not a coincidence Eriksen's level of expression shoots through the roof when Dembele is in the team, and I'd hazard a guess and say that type of player would do wonders for Pogba, too.
It wasn't just Dembele that suffered because of the standard of player we regarded then. Modric was seen as a joke on here when he was coming up at Spurs, too, with only the poster Scholesy and a handful of others championing him and believing he could go all the way as a player.
When you're setting your sights on the technical acumen of a Thiago or the all-round brilliance of a prime Vidal, it makes sense why a midfielder whose passing was average and shooting atrocious, was dismissed as below par.
My take on Dembele was that we could have worked on his weaknesses whilst benefitting greatly from the strengths he already had in his game. He was always top percentile as a dribbler through midfield and was always a nightmare to dispossess, so even if he couldn't shoot nor pass very well, there would have been nothing wrong in having someone like him getting the ball to other players that could.
Unfortunately, there isn't a youngster coming through with the same skilset as Dembele, but if there was, we should pounce on him because the ability to retain possession and go past players completely changes the way you can approach the game. It forces opposing midfields to plan and accommodate those runs and break rank from their positions to go and double up on the dribbler, in turn, that free up others in the midfield to do their thing. It's not a coincidence Eriksen's level of expression shoots through the roof when Dembele is in the team, and I'd hazard a guess and say that type of player would do wonders for Pogba, too.
his performances v us and then last night were absolutely top class, an absolute beast of a midfielder.
Les Ferdinand said something about him wishing Dembele would join Bale at Real.
Can't figure out whether he is wishing Dembele well or cursing him
Can't figure out whether he is wishing Dembele well or cursing him
That was supposed to be Renato Sanches, but I guess we dodged a bullet there.
The rumor was that back when Real bought Modric, Dembele was their second option if they could not get ModricLes Ferdinand said something about him wishing Dembele would join Bale at Real.
Can't figure out whether he is wishing Dembele well or cursing him
So what happened with him being pulled back into a deeper role then? What manager did it and what was the reaction? How come he was pulled back when he made a good start in the AM position scoring and assisting lots of goals?
Not often you see an AM pulled back into a DM. That’s like Coutinho going back into a DM.
Absolute beast now
Not often you see an AM pulled back into a DM. That’s like Coutinho going back into a DM.
Absolute beast now
He has never scored lots of goals at a top level, his best return was 10 in a season at AZ.
Don't rate Belgium but if Dembele and KDB could take this form into the world cup, that midfield is going to be mouthwateringly good.
So what do you mean you don't rate them?
Mertens and Hazard are playing well too. And they have super Lukaku!
Mertens and Hazard are playing well too. And they have super Lukaku!
He didn't play under Roy. Hughes signed him and played him as a second striker or attacking midfielder mostly. But he wasn't even a regular starter then, I think. Jol came in after a season and played him as a CM now and again but he was still mostly an attacking mid. He transitioned permanently to a deeper role in Spurs, under AVB / Sherwood.
Said this before on here. Great press resistance but needs someone that can play between the lines next to him. Essentially a stronger Modric. Both allergic to through balls.