A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[ti vu]

Basically what I'm trying to convey is this; If Pochettino is in charge of our current squad and Mourinho is in charge of the current Spurs squad, what position will we be on the table now?

Yes, you're right about man management and top players with big egos. But how would we know whether Poch can or cannot manage big egos? As far as I know, he's managed Espanyol, Southampton and Spurs and I don't see any big stars in those teams. Everyone has to start somewhere so who's to say Poch doesn't have it in him to manage big egos? We wouldn't know because he doesn't have the opportunity to do so yet. With that being said, and with all the uncertainties, even though it's been 'discussed to death', I'm certainly going to keep wondering whether Poch can make it in a big club because I would love to see that happen.

About the spending money part, we will have to agree to disagree on that because I certainly did not interpret it the same way you did.

To answer your question, I'll have to go a bit long. Poch at new club ain't doing exactly much better in the get go. He couldn't make top 4 in his first season despite already having most of current first team players in place. So if he's to manage if us my opinion, we are worse position in this season. We're cursed when it comes to injury, especially the defense. And ego management. Whether he can win some of our big ego over is already a question mark. Mourinho? I doubt he would relish to work for Tottenham in the first place, but to answer the question, they would be in similar position in the table, while they would be within a chance for the smaller cup. Why? Mourinho is proven as winner as well as having an underdog team overachieve. He would require less time a squad well built by Poch, with players fresh and hungry for success.

Poch may turn out well managing big ego, but there is no evidence. Others achieve at lower level or take a sleeping giant back top level then move to more financial buffed club? Or having success at player and well connected. If they can't blow them away with their coaching CV, they can relate with players about time they win thing with a club. Does Poch have anything of those? He had started somewhere but has he broken through the barrier of good coach? Is Tottenham overachieving now or they're reaching their peak where they're trying to manage expectation?

Sure. Agree to disagree. Just point out Poch post Baldini signings ain't exactly great so it's not like giving more money and suddenly his signings would mostly hit the ground running

 

[GlastonSpur]

I feel the odds are heading in the opposite direction to that which you suggest. Should the option of managing Real or Bayern become a genuine possibiility, you can all but guarantee that Poch will leave for either of them without a moments hesitation. There is simply no logical reason for Poch to remain at Spurs if presented with a significanlty more appealing option, which the aforementioned clubs provide in spades.

We're talking about 2 absolute giants of the game, the apex of football, the primary destination for any and all players/managers whom harbour that insatiable ambition for success. History taught us this fact a long ago.

On the contrary, there are several logical reasons why he might turn such job offers down:

* RM is a circus/managerial merry-go round, in contrast to the stability and ongoing project he has at Spurs.

* Bayern is a CL giant, but play domestically in a more-or-less one-horse league, He could win glory with them in the former, but not so in the latter.

* He's still young ... and so wouldn't feel that it's now or never to take up the reins at European giant.

* He might well wish to stay for the opening season (at the very least) in our fantastic new stadium.

* He might well feel that he isn't yet done with uncovering the full potential of the current Spurs squad and the additions he'll have in mind for this summer.

None of the above mean that he definitely would turn down any job offer this summer from RM or Bayern. But they do represent coherent reasons why he might well do so.

 

[Random Task]

On the contrary, there are several logical reasons why he might turn such job offers down:

* RM is a circus/managerial merry-go round, in contrast to the stability and ongoing project he has at Spurs.

* Bayern is a CL giant, but play domestically in a more-or-less one-horse league, He could win glory with them in the former, but not so in the latter.

* He's still young ... and so wouldn't feel that it's now or never to take up the reins at European giant.

* He might well wish to stay for the opening season (at the very least) in our fantastic new stadium.

* He might well feel that he isn't yet done with uncovering the full potential of the current Spurs squad and the additions he'll have in mind for this summer.

None of the above mean that he definitely would turn down any job offer this summer from RM or Bayern. But they do represent coherent reasons why he might well do so.

1) Real Madrid may very well be a circus/merry-go-round as you put it, but they are still the primary destination for a very high percentage of players/managers the world over. No club on earth has stronger pull regards player acquisition. RM are the end game whether we care to admit it or not.

2) If he could achieve relative success with Spurs whilst tied to shoestring budget (turning them in to a consistent top 4 club), why could he not achieve glory in the long-term with Bayern?

3) He is still youngish and he has a bright future within the game should he make the right career choices, but should he refuse the offer of taking over at a huge club like Real, Bayern etc, he may very well find that door permanently shut. The opportunity to reach the very pinnacle of your chosen profession, be that football or any occupation for that matter, doesn't come around every day. Also refusing to manage at the highest level would give off the impression that he lacks ambition, or worse still, he doesn't believe in his ability to be a success outside of the comfort zone he finds himself in at Spurs.

4) You couldn't resist, could you? Of all your reasons for Poch remaining at Spurs, the "fantastic new stadium" will have the absolute least affect on Poch's decision making process. I feel very strongly about this.

5) Possible, a bit fairytale, but possible all the same. If Poch feels his work at Spurs is not yet done and he can indeed take the club up another level, then he may wish to stay a little longer. Remote chance of that happening all things considered.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I like him. Playing attacking, direct and fluid football. And one day i want him here.
But he has one flaw that i don't like. The thing that klopp also has. He does not read game well enough. Juve defeat is on him. 30 mins left, juve need two goals and poch didn't close the game. He allowed two counter attack goals.
For example there is no way that jose would allow that. Sometimes( i repeat sometimes) you need to adapt a little. Sometimes is good to win ugly. He doesn't do that.
But still, great coach with huge potential.

 

[red_devil83]

I hope we're making discrete enquiries as to his availability and preferred career path.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

I hope we're making discrete enquiries as to his availability and preferred career path.

He's shit, hasn't won anything, is crap against the other top teams, is arrogant and ecurages his players to dive and cheat, why would you want him at all?

 

[Andersons Dietician]

He's shit, hasn't won anything, is crap against the other top teams, is arrogant and ecurages his players to dive and cheat, why would you want him at all?

Time for Fergie to call him up and ask him out for “lunch” again.

Jokes aside think he has done a fantastic job and from what I’ve read and the interviews I’ve seen seems like a funny and great guy. Can’t see him leaving this summer with the new stadium but surely unless Spurs start getting titles he himself will wonder about these Europeen super powers surely.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Time for Fergie to call him up and ask him out for “lunch” again.

It was only a chat about football surely? . Can't see Poch wanting to jump ship for at least another season or so, would be more worried about PSG than United or Real.

 

[Florida Man]

He's shit, hasn't won anything, is crap against the other top teams, is arrogant and ecurages his players to dive and cheat, why would you want him at all?

We did save you from Van Gaal being your manager so it would be even Stevens if we nicked Poch off you lot.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

We did save you from Van Gaal being your manager so it would be even Stevens if we nicked Poch off you lot.

Was a bullet dodged with LVG, TBH I was all for having him, hindsight is a funny thing.

 

[Scroto Baggins]

There is certainly a bit of a love in around Pochettino on these forums, and I think he has done amazing considering his budget. But there is a bit of a the grass is greener at play, that swashbuckling attacking football can backfire. As we seen in the Juventus game, I thought Spurs would have been better served bunkering in and closing the game out, maybe look to counter on a break as Juve got more desperate the longer the game dragged on and pushed more players forward.

That aggressive footballing philosophy is great to watch for the neutral, but imagine the Man Utd sub forum on here if that was us that threw away a 2 away goal draw and 1-0 up at home advantage. The site would literally be in meltdown mode.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Poch is not good enough for Man Utd. Man Utd have to stick with manager with the best CV which is Mou. Give Mou another 4 windows and 400 million he will turn things around.

 

[P-Nut]

I want him to move up an extra level before we consider appointing him. If he'd shit that game down against Juve and realised you can play in different ways I'd have said he was ready. Probably the defeat he needed to be able to learn when to change things though.

I think he'll get his hands on a trophy either this season or next and people will want him to take over, but until I see that he has more than one way of playing I'd rather we looked elsewhere.

The manager I expect us to have next would be Zidane to be honest. Don't see him lasting another 12 months at Madrid and if things go tits up for us next season the timing could be spot on. Would be another big gamble by the club though.

 

[roonster09]

Poch is not good enough for Man Utd. Man Utd have to stick with manager with the best CV which is Mou. Give Mou another 4 windows and 400 million he will turn things around.

sell Pogba, Sanchez, Shaw, Martial this summer, give Mou another 200M this summer to build his team. The team he inherited from LVG is too poor. Rumor said he needs 5 new players. If still not good enough then another 100M in January. He will make it right. Just look at how much Pep and Klopp had spent, so Mou needs to spend even more to catch up.

Man Utd must keep Mourinho, just like Arsenal must keep Wenger. It is the only way to reduce the massive global support Man Utd has over other clubs in EPL. I wish Man Utd win the FA cup this season so Mourinho can keep working on his project in Man Utd. Anyway Mou's contract just got renewed so I don't think his job is on the line at all.

Go on boy. You are at least trying.

 

[Trizy]

I like him. Playing attacking, direct and fluid football. And one day i want him here.
But he has one flaw that i don't like. The thing that klopp also has. He does not read game well enough. Juve defeat is on him. 30 mins left, juve need two goals and poch didn't close the game. He allowed two counter attack goals.
For example there is no way that jose would allow that. Sometimes( i repeat sometimes) you need to adapt a little. Sometimes is good to win ugly. He doesn't do that.
But still, great coach with huge potential.

That should come with experience, though. Especially in knock out competitions. The only way to gain that experience is to live through it and learn from it. I'm sure that Juventus game will stick with him in the future.

In his defense of that game, he probably got too cocky because Spurs were spanking them.

 

[Primativ]

Zidane would be a terrible choice for United. United need a progressive coach not just a figurehead like Zidane.

With regards to Poch compared to Mourinho. I do think Mourinho's best days are behind him.

Poch plays better attacking football. Gets the best out of young players. Improves them. His philosophy is modern. He is a better man manager. He's been at Spurs 4 years and no sign of meltdown or losing the dressing room.

What Mourinho has over Poch is he knows what it takes to win trophies but that's really about it nowadays. He's spent an absolute fortune at United, hundreds of millions compared to what Poch is able to spend, yet who is really playing out if their skin at United? Martial. Rashford. Pogba. Sanchez...they've all arguably gone backwards. He plays negative football. I will accept most of the time it's effective winning football Mourinho delivers but I think if you look at the overall package of both..it is Poch who is doing the far better job at his respective club and is now the overall better manager.

The one negative is Poch needs to show he can bring home a trophy.

The narrative at United is that you need to spend more money as the players aren't good enough. Whilst the narrative at Spurs is they have an awesome squad and should be winning things despite spending a pittance compared and pretty much all of the spurs players are playing the best football of their careers. Can the same be said for United players?

That shows to me who is the better manager. Football's a funny old game though and Spurs are currently below United but I'd argue quite strongly if we were still at WHL...that wouldn't be the case.

Go on boy. You are at least trying.

I can't work out if this guy is being serious or not with that post

 

[roonster09]

I can't work out if this guy is being serious or not with that post

He is Arsenal fan, so it's obvious.

 

[haram]

There is no pressure at Spurs to do anything. You cant compare the two jobs.

 

[acnumber9]

that swashbuckling attacking football

That swashbuckling football has mustered one more league goal than Utd despite having the best striker in the league.

 

[Scroto Baggins]

In his defense of that game, he probably got too cocky because Spurs were spanking them.

Yes, Spurs were all over them, but it is still Juve and they demand at least some respect.

There are two sides to this coin representing which philosophy you play by. On one side is the 'go for the jugular and finish them off, we are all over them, we get that next goal then this ends as a contest and we are dominating the run of play." The other side is the "Close down the space between the lines, keep it tight and hit on the counter, they need not one but two goals here. And the more they push players forward the more vulnerable they are for a counter."

Im more for philosophy 'b' verses a team like Juventus.

 

[Scroto Baggins]

That swashbuckling football has mustered one more league goal than Utd despite having the best striker in the league.

Exactly, yet Mou is hounded as being terrible, the football is dire, etc etc. It's a meltdown every time the team has an off day, yet praise is heaped on Pochettino. As Ive stated I think hes done an amazing job on a small budget whilst Spurs built that new swanky stadium.

But Man United sit second not Spurs, I think there is a bit of a case of the grass is greener.

 

[GlastonSpur]

There is no pressure at Spurs to do anything. You cant compare the two jobs.

Not true. These days there is pressure for Spurs to finish in the top 4 at the very least - both for financial reasons (given our huge outlay on the new stadium complex) and to help keep current players on board with the prospect of CL football.

 

[hubbuh]

Go on boy. You are at least trying.

Christ. There's no age this bloke could be that would make his cringe-inducing wet fart posts less cringe-inducing.

 

[Ish]

Exactly, yet Mou is hounded as being terrible, the football is dire, etc etc. It's a meltdown every time the team has an off day, yet praise is heaped on Pochettino. As Ive stated I think hes done an amazing job on a small budget whilst Spurs built that new swanky stadium.

But Man United sit second not Spurs, I think there is a bit of a case of the grass is greener.

Maybe those who'd like to give Poch a shot, puts a lot of weight on the bolded bit - assuming if you gave him 200-300m to build a team, he'd excel even more? I understand the complexities around spending money (money doesn't guarantee success) and the different pressure of being at a massive club - not everyone can handle the expectations/scrutiny, but he's handled the step up from Soton to Spurs well, thus far.

For the record, I'm not one yearning for Poch to take over at United, though I do rate him and what he's doing at Spurs, obviously. As I'm sure most of us do.

 

[RedCurry]

He's shit, hasn't won anything, is crap against the other top teams, is arrogant and ecurages his players to dive and cheat, why would you want him at all?

The only thing out of that list that matters really is the lack of trophies. Maybe he can change that at a big club.

 

[AP88]

I’d actually like to see them swap jobs - I think it’d be beneficial for both clubs and help close the gap on Guardiola’s City.

Spurs have a load of players in their early to mid-twenties who’ve been developed individually as far as possible now, and require a coach who can instill a winning mentality - Mourinho would be perfect for that.

United have a raft of unpolished diamonds like Rashford, Martial, Shaw and Pogba who aren’t being developed accordingly under Jose - Pochettino would be the man to do it and save the club millions. Plus there’s the incredible u18s who are going to require an adovocate of Youth to integrate them within the next few years....

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

I’d actually like to see them swap jobs - I think it’d be beneficial for both clubs and help close the gap on Guardiola’s City.

Spurs have a load of players in their early to mid-twenties who’ve been developed individually as far as possible now, and require a coach who can instill a winning mentality - Mourinho would be perfect for that.

United have a raft of unpolished diamonds like Rashford, Martial, Shaw and Pogba who aren’t being developed accordingly under Jose - Pochettino would be the man to do it and save the club millions. Plus there’s the incredible u18s who are going to require an adovocate of Youth to integrate them within the next few years....

I wouldn't want Jose anywhere near Tottenham, and I am pretty sure the vast majority of spurs fans would feel the same.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

The only thing out of that list that matters really is the lack of trophies. Maybe he can change that at a big club.

 

[AP88]

I wouldn't want Jose anywhere near Tottenham, and I am pretty sure the vast majority of spurs fans would feel the same.

Even if he could oversee the quantum leap of putting the first trophies in the cabinet at the new stadium and instilling a winning identity that would change the course of the clubs history moving forward?

Pochettino has done a good job, but Levy has given him a platform upon which to perform in the past 5 years with some shrewd recruitment - Eriksen, Lloris, Vertonghen and Dembele were incredible signings when you look at it subjectively, and would have prospered under most managers. Pochettino has an ‘expensive’ squad, because the collective ‘value’ of it is more than every other one in the league barring City. Mourinho’s issue at United is that he currently doesn’t have that depth of quality, but if he did, he’d do some serious damage both domestically and in Europe.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Even if he could oversee the quantum leap of putting the first trophies in the cabinet at the new stadium and instilling a winning identity that would change the course of the clubs history moving forward?

Pochettino has done a good job, but Levy has given him a platform upon which to perform in the past 5 years with some shrewd recruitment - Eriksen, Lloris, Vertonghen and Dembele were incredible signings when you look at it subjectively, and would have prospered under most managers. Pochettino has an ‘expensive’ squad, because the collective ‘value’ of it is more than every other one in the league barring City. Mourinho’s issue at United is that he currently doesn’t have that depth of quality, but if he did, he’d do some serious damage both domestically and in Europe.

While I respect Jose and what he's won, I can't stand him or the football he plays. I don't like how he handles the dressing room or his stupid mind games in the media. So basically yes I respect him but can't stand the sight of him, also his ties with Chelsea wouldn't go down well.

 

[charlenefan]

I wouldn't want Jose anywhere near Tottenham, and I am pretty sure the vast majority of spurs fans would feel the same.

Out of interest who do Spurs fans want to replace Poch when he inevitably goes?

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Out of interest who do Spurs fans want to replace Poch when he inevitably goes?

Not thinking about it tbh, I don't think he will go anywhere unless he is sacked in the next few seasons. But I like Howe or Tuchel, I think both would be a good fit and be willing to work within the resources of what we have.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Not thinking about it tbh, I don't think he will go anywhere unless he is sacked in the next few seasons. But I like Howe or Tuchel, I think both would be a good fit and be willing to work within the resources of what we have.

Howe? Troy Tempest you mean!

You will sink with him. He has no idea of a budget beyond 15 million. He’d have a heart attack

 

[bond19821982]

I don't want to make this a Poch vs Jose but cant help it. Spurs fans saying don't want Jose is as good as the old blonde comparison who is still at large for that normal guy who has no chance of scoring her yet saying - well, i dont like her.

59 goals scored and 25 conceded with having a superior defence, midfield and striker .

 

[Primativ]

Even if he could oversee the quantum leap of putting the first trophies in the cabinet at the new stadium and instilling a winning identity that would change the course of the clubs history moving forward?

Pochettino has done a good job, but Levy has given him a platform upon which to perform in the past 5 years with some shrewd recruitment - Eriksen, Lloris, Vertonghen and Dembele were incredible signings when you look at it subjectively, and would have prospered under most managers. Pochettino has an ‘expensive’ squad, because the collective ‘value’ of it is more than every other one in the league barring City. Mourinho’s issue at United is that he currently doesn’t have that depth of quality, but if he did, he’d do some serious damage both domestically and in Europe.

Well a lot of those players have played under other managers and weren't all that, Dembele especially. Eriksen went missing all the time under previous manager. You could argue it's Eriksen maturing naturally as a footballer but the point is, with a couple of exceptions like Janssen and M'Koudo who were just duds not cut out for this league, every single Spurs player that plays under Poch moves up several levels in performances. That is the sign of an outstanding manager. It's what Pep is doing at City, look at the improvement Sterling and the like have made under him. Under Poch, even players like Sissoko who are terrible actually start to contribute and look semi decent. Not to mention making the likes of Rose and Walker first choice in their positions for England when before he came along they were lucky to even get in the squad. Poch just makes players better and teams better than their sum of their parts.

I don't think there are many Spurs fans in the land who would swap Mourinho for Poch. No way Mourinho does a better job with this group of players than Poch has. Not to mention the negative football, the dressing room would fall apart and we'd be in meltdown within 24 months. Not to mention he way he slates his players in public, some of the things he's said in press conferences recently are cringeworthy. Poch carries himself with a lot more class.

As I said, the only thing Mourinho has over Poch nowadays is his proven pedigree at winning trophies, which admittedly is quite an important issue. If Poch does win a trophy though in the near future, then there's no longer any areas for me where Mourinho excels over Poch.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Howe? Troy Tempest you mean!

You will sink with him. He has no idea of a budget beyond 15 million. He’d have a heart attack

I dunno he's ever really had the opportunity. I like the football he tries to play, when you look at what's he's done at Bournemouth it's simply amazing.

I don't want to make this a Poch vs Jose but cant help it. Spurs fans saying don't want Jose is as good as the old blonde comparison who is still at large for that normal guy who has no chance of scoring her yet saying - well, i dont like her.

59 goals scored and 25 conceded with having a superior defence, midfield and striker .

Honestly no, I know he wouldn't ever be intrested, we don't have the resoursces he needs to be successful, he's a chequebook manager. Why is it so hard to believe I wouldn't want him at Tottenham? It would be an absolute disaster . Nothing at all like scoring a hotter blonde, can you honestly not see why people don't like Jose?

 

[RedSky]

Not thinking about it tbh, I don't think he will go anywhere unless he is sacked in the next few seasons. But I like Howe or Tuchel, I think both would be a good fit and be willing to work within the resources of what we have.

I'd be after Jardim. Plays the same formation, the same tactics, used to a low budget, gives youth a chance and yet gets his teams playing nice football with a good defense and scoring lots of goals. Pretty similar to Pochettino.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

I'd be after Jardim. Plays the same formation, the same tactics, used to a low budget, gives youth a chance and yet gets his teams playing nice football with a good defense and scoring lots of goals. Pretty similar to Pochettino.

Certainly done the bussiness for Monaco would be happy if we could pull it off.

 

[africanspur]

Out of interest who do Spurs fans want to replace Poch when he inevitably goes?

I think this is such a difficult question to answer. And actually for exactly the reason we have Poch.

I remember at the time feeling pretty happy that it looked like we were going to LVG. Such a successful manager, superb WC performance with the Netherlands. Then Moyes was Moyes and you moved to get LVG instead. I felt like we'd missed a huge opportunity.

I remember the next question most people had (and the general media) was De Boer vs Poch. There was certainly a sizable group of fans who preferred De Boer, citing, amongst other things, his trophy record vs Poch's!

Now of course, we don't know what would have happened otherwise. Maybe De Boer would have been great at Spurs. Maybe LVG would have won us the title. Who knows? But it certainly does seem like we dodged 2 bullets that summer and I don't think most people would have had Poch as odds on favourite to last longer than LVG at his next job.

Maybe that will be Howe? Maybe Jardim as Redsky says? Who knows, I think its so difficult to predict these things.

I acknowledge that there is a very good chance Poch will eventually move on but I've got a small bit of hope that he could become our Ferguson/Wenger. We'll see.

 

[GlastonSpur]

... I don't think there are many Spurs fans in the land who would swap Mourinho for Poch. ...

I'd be surprised if there was even one such Spurs fan.