Unbeaten league winning season v 100+ points but with defeats

[Adisa]

Maximum points without doubt. Finishing with 100+ points is something really special.

 

[Adisa]

I also think that Arsenal team is overrated.
You go unbeaten but finish with 90 points. That's poor imo.

 

[James Peril]

Invincible/unbeatable trumps getting beat 3-2 off your biggest rival when you were 2nil up at half time and thinking you were about to win the league.

Not really no, City were resting players and paid a calculated price for doing so. If I remember correctly, they lifted the trophy a couple of days ago didn't they? Only smart to rest players ahead of a Champions League-game no matter the outcome of that battle, something we would have done if we were so lucky to be still part of the tournament.

 

[ivaldo]

Depends how many points and how many losses. If we go unbeaten but end up drawing 17 games 0-0, it wouldn't be as impressive as winning every game but 1. Alternatively if the points difference is small then going unbeaten is the better.

 

[Stocar]

How is this even a question? League is won by having most points. Team with 91 points and a couple of losses would win the league over the team with 90 points and no losses. They would also obviously have more wins, as far as stats go.

There are all kinds of records, but they are of secondary importance. And while going through the season unbeaten is a neat one, I don't see why it's better than, for example, scoring the record number of goals.

 

[Chipper]

For all the people saying maximum points, would you genuinely rather;

A) 37 wins 1 loss for 111 points

Over

B) 36 wins 2 draws for 110 points

Absolutely. 111 is more than 110 and the point of sport is to push yourself to the limit and do the best you can. It's as simple as that for me.

Zehner touched on it, but there's not much discussion about wanting to see as many wins as possible in this thread so far. I find that interesting, the whole focus on the 'L' column at the expense of 'W' one. Wins are great and are better than not losing.

It's not a direct analogy but it reminds me of the prizefighter with one or two, maybe even a handful of losses on his record who took on everybody versus the methodical boxer with carefully picked opponents that retires undefeated - the first is more exciting and has more glory than the other who might even be considered boring or a bit of a coward.Doesn't work great because in a league season everyone has to play everyone and there's no ducking opponents but it's the best I can come up with.

Started to think of how the points system might be affecting my thinking but as far as I can reason the only way you could get less points for winning more and losing once in a sport where draws exist would be if losses actually got you points deducted rather than zero. Maybe then I would value going unbeaten more but I can't think of a sport that has anything like that in place off the top of my head. I don't know if one exists.

 

[No Idea For Nickname]

What about this:
37 wins, 1 draw, and 50 goals scored, 5 goals conceded.
Or, 32 wins 4 draws and 2 losses and 100 goals scored and 15 goals against.
Which one would you take? Of course, winning PL in both cases.

 

[padr81]

Points for me, not just because we're likely to do it, but the Invincibles (only ones so far, dropped 24 points that season the equivalent of losing 8 games). Were a team (this seasons City) to finish with 100, that would be 14 points dropped for the entire season, Arsenal's invincibles dropped nearly twice the amount of points City are likely to over the course of a season, as Sir Alex said "a lot of draws".

Will this seasons Barca be seen as better than at Pep's peak where they were putting up many more points in La Liga despite invincibility now being very likely, I don't think so.

 

[adexkola]

Unbeaten. We would add a gold trophy to our collection.

No one remembers the Arsenal draws when you mention their season. It's just recognized as the ''invincible''. Unless you're nitpicking, of course.

What do you mean "no one remembers"? Their draws have literally been mentioned at least a dozen times in this thread.

 

[Wengerscoat]

Points

Arsenal’s run was impressive, but they had a crap load of draws, which are almost like a loss in my book.

We ended with a mammoth 90 points which has been rarely been bettered in PL history.

 

[Stocar]

I think the unbeaten record appeals to reactionary and tribal sentiments, and maybe also to an opportunist and win-at-all-costs mentality that is an inherent part of the sport, but in my opinion a bit too prevalent to the detriment of the game itself.

Scoring the record number of goals in a season is something I would appreciate much more.

 

[Trizy]

What do you mean "no one remembers"? Their draws have literally been mentioned at least a dozen times in this thread.

Because people are nitpicking. Which I mentioned on the last line of my post.

 

[JPRouve]

Reading the thread, I'm under the impression that the invicibles have a bigger place in people memories than 2011/2012 Real Madrid.

 

[Karel Podolsky]

The label "Invincibles" is far too rare. I will take unbeaten season in a heartbeat than than having 100+ points. The face value of going full season undefeated is quite a feat.

100+ points is also very rare. Has any EPL club ever achieved it?
It doesn't have a label though.

 

[Wiltord02]

It was 12 draws but we easily could have had more wins.

0-0 vs Fulham at home. Van der Sar had a world class performance in goal.
1-1 vs Leicester. We conceded a last minute equaliser.
1-1 vs Bolton. Conceded another late equaliser.
1-1 vs United. If Lauren could made a 2 yard pass to Henry, this could have been a victory.
2-2 vs Spurs. Lehmann going crazy cost us a win here.

 

[adexkola]

Because people are nitpicking. Which I mentioned on the last line of my post.

Their draws were a significant part of their campaign, not some infinitesimal detail. I don't see how mentioning them is nitpicking.

 

[Klopper76]

I should say that as a Liverpool fan it wouldn’t matter to me how we win the league.

I’d actually take an 8-0 humiliation at Old Trafford and a similar defeat against United at Anfield in the same season if that was the price for seeing Liverpool win it.

Going unbeaten is over rated imo.

 

[GuyfromAustria]

How is this even a question? League is won by having most points. Team with 91 points and a couple of losses would win the league over the team with 90 points and no losses. They would also obviously have more wins, as far as stats go.

Again, the question of the poll is "Would you rather WIN AN UNBEATEN LEAGUE TITLE or ....".
Of course no one wants to finish way down the league table after an unprecedented run of draws.

 

[ninjaskill]

Mathematically, it is possible. BUt I dont think it will ever happen in real life.

Galatasary actually finished second in the Turkish league in 1985-86 but lost out on goal difference to Besiktas so it actually has happened.

To answer the question in the OP unbeaten with the league title for sure

 

[whatwha]

Depends on the point totals.
80 points and unbeaten is not as good as 100+ points.

 

[Theonas]

It's another case of prestige/narrative yada yada vs a more reliable measure of quality. It's a bit like the CL vs the league. The former sounds better and carry with it much more prestige but is not necessarily the best measure of quality. This is why even if this City team is better than Arsenal's, the latter will always carry with them a better, more memorable narrative.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

How is this even a question? League is won by having most points. Team with 91 points and a couple of losses would win the league over the team with 90 points and no losses. They would also obviously have more wins, as far as stats go.

There are all kinds of records, but they are of secondary importance. And while going through the season unbeaten is a neat one, I don't see why it's better than, for example, scoring the record number of goals.

Think of it as a start of season objective. Manager and his team sit down and say to the players do you want to go the whole season unbeaten and win the league or do you want to take a few defeats and still win the league, but by more points. A lot of players fear losing more than they get excited about winning, its just such an amazing thing to be able to say that you won the league and noone could beat you.

The same mentality is why floyd mayweather gets chucked into the discussion for GOAT boxer by a lot of people. Sugar Ray Robinson was a far better fighter and at one point his record was 128 wins, 1 loss and 2 draws from 131 fights, but you put that 50-0 up against it and it becomes a valid argument.

 

[Trizy]

Their draws were a significant part of their campaign, not some infinitesimal detail. I don't see how mentioning them is nitpicking.

On this forum I've seen people mention it as a way to discredit their achievement. I think as United fans we tend to be jealous and try down play it because we're the PL heroes since it's started. An unbeaten season is something we should be known for, not Arsenal.

 

[Peyroteo]

Reading the thread, I'm under the impression that the invicibles have a bigger place in people memories than 2011/2012 Real Madrid.

Yes, but it's because of the media and all of the marketing around it. Not because it's a bigger achievement.

 

[Camilo]

Unbeaten is far more impressive imo. Even Arsenal with their one draw in 3 season managed 90 points. Go unbeaten and you'll almost certainly get more than 90 points, so there's not much in it points wise.

 

[Tommy]

Unbeaten is the bigger achievement, but I'd pick whatever gave us the more entertaining football, and I'd have to think that'd be the points total.

 

[James Peril]

It was 12 draws but we easily could have had more wins.

0-0 vs Fulham at home. Van der Sar had a world class performance in goal.
1-1 vs Leicester. We conceded a last minute equaliser.
1-1 vs Bolton. Conceded another late equaliser.
1-1 vs United. If Lauren could made a 2 yard pass to Henry, this could have been a victory.
2-2 vs Spurs. Lehmann going crazy cost us a win here.

You really can't list a few games and forget about the ones that went in your favor, just doesn't make any sense. All teams struggle against lesser teams a few times over 38 games, and you can't mention a Lauren-pass when United missed that penalty in one of those games.

 

[JPRouve]

Yes, but it's because of the media and all of the marketing around it. Not because it's a bigger achievement.

That's your opinion. Both achievements are as rare as the other and again +100+ only means something in a league with 38 games.

 

[bosnian_red]

Unbeaten is something to be more "proud" of, and you can say undefeated and all that, requires a lot more luck though. Getting over 100 points just means you were head and shoulders above any other side in the league, but if you don't go undefeated then you probably just had a random feck up or stopped caring at the end.

 

[Swift Football]

100+ points is also very rare. Has any EPL club ever achieved it?
It doesn't have a label though.

It's rare but like I told the face value of going undefeated whole season is higher.

 

[Andy_Cole]

Unbeaten but hoping City drop points and don’t get 100.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Unbeaten.

Look at how we celebrated when we ended Arsenals invincible run, thats how much it annoys the opposition

 

[Judge Red]

We went on a lengthy unbeaten run last season. It was pretty bad and we made up no ground on the top four.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

We went on a lengthy unbeaten run last season. It was pretty bad and we made up no ground on the top four.

So? The question at hand specifically mentions it’s a title winning unbeaten season we are considering here.

 

[JPRouve]

So? The question at hand specifically mentions it’s a title winning unbeaten season we are considering here.

You should change the title, people seem to not understand the question and if I'm being honest the title is redundant, if you have the maximum amount of points, you are unbeaten.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

You should change the title, people seem to not understand the question and if I'm being honest the title is redundant, if you have the maximum amount of points, you are unbeaten.

It requires a very minimal amount of common sense to extrapolate from that title, but sure.

 

[JPRouve]

It requires a very minimal amount of common sense to extrapolate from that title, but sure.

I know but you have had to make the point several times already.

 

[el3mel]

+100 points for me.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Theoretical speaking it is possible to go whole season unbeaten and drawing 38 matches, with 38 points though

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Theoretical speaking it is possible to go whole season unbeaten and drawing 38 matches, with 38 points though

Please read words 2 and 3 of the thread title.