Fabinho | Al-Ittihad player

[Kapardin]

Last year, Liverpool finished 4th, Man Utd finished 6th.

If Klopp's transfers are "exceptional" and Mourinho's transfers are only "average", then the only rational explanation for how we managed to finish 2nd is that Mourinho is a much better manager than Klopp!

Liverpool's squad is still thin despite a solid starting XI and do they couldn't juggle the latter stages of CL with league campaign. Plus, they did not have VvD (whose influence has improved even Lovren) till January which meant their defense conceded silly points.

Otherwise, there is truth in that Liverpool's transfers are better (which is more due to Klopp + Transfer Committee rather than Klopp alone of course). Liverpool with greater squad depth could have finished above us, which is why I am on the fence regarding our own progress this season.

Klopp's main weakness is his habit of losing finals. Mourinho is not a finals bottler. Otherwise, I think the credit Jose bought with the EL and LC trophies has just about run its' course. About time he makes some savvy signings and gets us playing better. The state of our attack is particularly terrible in terms of cohesion.

Depends on economics I guess. Liverpool spend less on players in general, to build, whereas Mourinho buys for the now. I guess the proof in the pudding will be where both clubs are 4-5 years down the line, and the positions, net loss, etc st that point.

Mourinho, I suspect is about to enter his last season managing UTD.

You think Klopp spent 70 odd mil on Mane and Salah combined, 75 mil on VvD, 60 odd (I think) for Keita and now close to 50 for Fekir for the "future"?

Like Jose, Klopp is under pressure to win trophies. He is very much signing players for the "now".

 

[TheReligion]

Depends on economics I guess. Liverpool spend less on players in general, to build, whereas Mourinho buys for the now. I guess the proof in the pudding will be where both clubs are 4-5 years down the line, and the positions, net loss, etc st that point.

Mourinho, I suspect is about to enter his last season managing UTD.

Totally disagree.

Klopp has spent a fortune. He's buying for the here and now. Let's have it right.

 

[ThatsGreat]

Klopp's main weakness is his habit of losing finals. Mourinho is not a finals bottler. Otherwise, I think the credit Jose bought with the EL and LC trophies has just about run its' course. About time he makes some savvy signings and gets us playing better. The state of our attack is particularly terrible in terms of cohesion.

I think this is unfair, he lost his best player midway through the match. And like you said he had a threadbare squad. Klopp has never competed with top teams as equals. With their spending now finally he'll be able to match the other managers resource wise. If they fail to win anything this season, then feel free to lay into him.

 

[Obi-Red-Kenobi]

Totally disagree.

Klopp has spent a fortune. He's buying for the here and now. Let's have it right.

We pay miles less in wages, and benefited from good business with Coutinho.

People go on about net spend for a reason. It’s about balancing the books, and not spending for the fun of it. Spending in business is about what you shell out, and what comes in.

He has spent, yes, but the net spend over the past 3.5 years is significantly less than UTD’s or City’s. These are numerical facts.

 

[TheReligion]

He’s spent less than Mourinho,


We pay miles less in wages, and benefited from good business with Coutinho.

People go on about net spend for a reason. It’s about balancing the books, and not spending for the fun of it. Spending in business is about what you shell out, and what comes in.

He has spent, yes, but the net spend over the past 3.5 years is significantly less than UTD’s or City’s. These are numerical facts.

United make more money than Liverpool. There's more to net spend then fees in v fees out you know.

It's ridiculous to say Klopp is bringing in hidden youth gems for the future when he's broke the world record transfer fee on a centre half and spent over 150m already this summer.

 

[haram]

We pay miles less in wages, and benefited from good business with Coutinho.

People go on about net spend for a reason. It’s about balancing the books, and not spending for the fun of it. Spending in business is about what you shell out, and what comes in.

He has spent, yes, but the net spend over the past 3.5 years is significantly less than UTD’s or City’s. These are numerical facts.

No one cares. He has spent big money, the players are in the team now and there can be no excuses next season.

 

[Obi-Red-Kenobi]

I don’t know why net spend is so easily disregarded to suit a rhetoric. ‘No one cares’ is wrong. No one who supports UTD cares, but it’s hardly an objective viewpoint, nor is mine to be fair.

Time will tell, yes he has spent more on players lately, than the club have in a long time, and yes he should be under pressure to deliver. But no more pressure than Pep, Mourinho or other managers who have similar gross Spends.

When I said he doesn’t always buy for the here and how, I was comparing with Mourinho, and not talking about the cost of individual players.

 

[TheReligion]

I don’t know net spend is so easily disregarded to suit a rhetoric.

Time will tell, yes he has spent more on players lately, than the club have in a long time, and yes he should be under pressure to deliver. But no more pressure than Pep, Mourinho or other managers who have similar spends.

When I said he doesn’t always buy for the here and how, I was comparing with Mourinho, and not talking about the cost of individual players.

Mourinho has just signed a 19 yo full back..

The narrative is nonsense. I think most United fans are sick of the free pass Klopp seems to get in the media. Mourinho is under pressure constantly, as is Guardiola. Rightly so. Klopp has also spent a truckload and should be under the same pressure and focus. He's made silly comments about spending and now he's throwing about 50-60m at every Tom, Dick and Harry.

 

[Halds]

Mourinho has just signed a 19 yo full back..

The narrative is nonsense. I think most United fans are sick of the free pass Klopp seems to get in the media. Mourinho is under pressure constantly, as is Guardiola. Rightly so. Klopp has also spent a truckload and should be under the same pressure and focus. He's made silly comments about spending and now he's throwing about 50-60m at every Tom, Dick and Harry.

Klopp is not under the same pressure for a reason. When have United or City lost a player they wanted to keep? Anyone since Ronaldo ten years ago? You don't sell your best players. That's a pretty huge advantage. Do you agree?

The two Manchesters pay the highest wages in PL, where Liverpool pay the 5th highest behind Chelsea and Arsenal as well. Your players average wage are around £100.000 a week, compared to Liverpools £70.000 a week. I assume it's easier to attract and keep players, when you pay 40% more in wages. Do you agree?

Klopp is under no pressure to win the PL, not from the media, and not from the fans.

I want progress though. I expect to get closer to the top, and I want to be entertained. A cup would be really nice, but progress in PL is what matters to me.

 

[Kapardin]

I think this is unfair, he lost his best player midway through the match. And like you said he had a threadbare squad. Klopp has never competed with top teams as equals. With their spending now finally he'll be able to match the other managers resource wise. If they fail to win anything this season, then feel free to lay into him.

Nope, a good manager finds a way to finish the job that he completed to 90%. Klopp still had his defenders on the pitch and also had Mane and Firmino, two legitimate goal-scorers. This was the weakest Real team to win the CL, so they were there for the taking.

Klopp is a bit tactically naive and inflexible, and I hope he continues to be, because that will prevent them from achieving great success.

 

[DonnieDarko]

You guys refuse to acknowledge the market has changed. 50-60 now is what was 30 when Klopp made that comments. You're talking like he spends crazy money, but remember how much did Dembele, Coutinho, Mbappe and Neymar cost. Anything half-decent costs 50+ now, but we still manage to sign gems for 35.
It's a decisive period for us, we have a chance to elevate a club one tier up, while we have a good manager, momentum and young capable team. Hope we spend enough to do so.

 

[Kapardin]

Klopp is not under the same pressure for a reason. When have United or City lost a player they wanted to keep? Anyone since Ronaldo ten years ago? You don't sell your best players. That's a pretty huge advantage. Do you agree?

The two Manchesters pay the highest wages in PL, where Liverpool pay the 5th highest behind Chelsea and Arsenal as well. Your players average wage are around £100.000 a week, compared to Liverpools £70.000 a week. I assume it's easier to attract and keep players, when you pay 40% more in wages. Do you agree?

Klopp is under no pressure to win the PL, not from the media, and not from the fans.

I want progress though. I expect to get closer to the top, and I want to be entertained. A cup would be really nice, but progress in PL is what matters to me.

Its' not like the loss of Coutinho has made your team suddenly morph into Southampton () or some relegation battling team. You still had one of the best attacks in Europe. And with the midfield additions you made, if you are not aiming for the title, that's setting the bar pretty low. It is enough quality for the league.

FYI, we nearly did lose de Gea and it was an incredible slice of luck he stayed, something that won't be repeated likely at any club ever. And losing him or even Pogba (if he leaves next season) doesn't mean we won't aim for the title.

City are a different beast. I strongly suspect the Arab owners are keeping the Spanish clubs at an arm's length from City with other deals in Spain. Incredible that Real are not even interested in the likes of KDB otherwise, its' quite silly to think about it.

Klopp is a media darling, so expect no criticism or expectation whatsover.

 

[Schweigaard]

I'll never understand why Klopp needs to overperform to not be a failure? For me if he can get us into regular CL again (with deep runs) like Benitez did, that's huge. It's been almost 10 years since we were a force in Europe, that's where we want to be. Man City and Man Utd should both do better than us in the league based on squad value, wages, and transfer fees spent the last years. People ridiculing net spend are clueless, of course it matters.

 

[Halds]

Its' not like the loss of Coutinho has made your team suddenly morph into Southampton () or some relegation battling team. You still had one of the best attacks in Europe. And with the midfield additions you made, if you are not aiming for the title, that's setting the bar pretty low. It is enough quality for the league.

FYI, we nearly did lose de Gea and it was an incredible slice of luck he stayed, something that won't be repeated likely at any club ever. And losing him or even Pogba (if he leaves next season) doesn't mean we won't aim for the title.

City are a different beast. I strongly suspect the Arab owners are keeping the Spanish clubs at an arm's length from City with other deals in Spain. Incredible that Real are not even interested in the likes of KDB otherwise, its' quite silly to think about it.

Klopp is a media darling, so expect no criticism or expectation whatsover.

Of course we didn't suddenly turn to relegation mode, but the departure of Coutinho was a straight kick in the balls for us. When has it not been a disadvantage losing your best players? Who knows how the season had ended, if he had been there?

Aims and pressure is not the same thing. Make no mistakes.. We want to win the PL. But no one expects it, and rightly so, given the financial advantages the two Manchesters have. Plus the fact, that we were 25 pts behind City last season.

I know de Gea nearly went to Real. Lucky for you, he stayed. I guess wages played a part in that. And quite frankly, I liked it. And I want City to keep their players too. I hate that every player around the world comes running, when Real or Barca whistles. I want the best players in PL

 

[golden_blunder]

Net spend debate again? All that means is that you spend within your means. In Liverpool’s case they’ve become a selling club, they can only spend if they sell. As soon as one of their players hits good form a big club swoops in.
United also spend within their means because they are a well run club who bring in lots of money through business deals & merchandise. We don’t have to rely on selling but we don’t overspend

 

[Kapardin]

And

Lol, had Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia on pause when I was typing online in this forum and the system froze. Good thing I saved my game progress atleast. Kick ass game, beat Dracula just now.

Of course we didn't suddenly turn to relegation mode, but the departure of Coutinho was a straight kick in the balls for us. When has it not been a disadvantage losing your best players? Who knows how the season had ended, if he had been there?

Aims and pressure is not the same thing. Make no mistakes.. We want to win the PL. But no one expects it, and rightly so, given the financial advantages the two Manchesters have. Plus the fact, that we were 25 pts behind City last season.

Arguably became better system wise once Coutinho left. Definitely Klopp and his team knew that.

We finished 19 points below City as well. You finished a few odd points below us. Doesn't matter, important thing is, you are spending well enough and buying players of the caliber to mount a title challenge, so it should definitely be expected of Klopp, though it won't. I suppose if he wins any trophy it might help at first though.

 

[Halds]

Net spend debate again? All that means is that you spend within your means. In Liverpool’s case they’ve become a selling club, they can only spend if they sell. As soon as one of their players hits good form a big club swoops in.
United also spend within their means because they are a well run club who bring in lots of money through business deals & merchandise. We don’t have to rely on selling but we don’t overspend

No netspend debate. Not from me atleast. I have never moaned because you, or other clubs, spend the money you have. I really don't care. And I don't care either, how you got them, whether it's your way, or the City way.

But having the better financial opportunities, adds to the expectations and the pressure.

 

[Halds]

Arguably became better system wise once Coutinho left. Definitely Klopp and his team knew that.

We finished 19 points below City as well. You finished a few odd points below us. Doesn't matter, important thing is, you are spending well enough and buying players of the caliber to mount a title challenge, so it should definitely be expected of Klopp, though it won't. I suppose if he wins any trophy it might help at first though.

I wouldn't know anything about Castlevania, but my post did look pretty strange

van Dijk came in when Coutinho went, which stabilized the defence. Given the choice, I would have prefered Coutinho over any of our other midfielders. Everyone would, I guess. It's true, the system was good, and arguably better since january, but it COULD have been better with Coutinho in it. Who knows?

I agree, we're spending now. And I'm pretty excited the way things are going. But I've learned the hard way to control the optimism. Next year never turns out to actually be our year

 

[tenpoless]

Which meltdown exactly?

 

[giorno]

Has this turned into another "Klopp is bad, net spend, Mourinho, United, expectations!!!" thing?

Look, far as Klopp and Liverpool are concerned, look at it this way: when Klopp took over Liverpool, nobody outside their own fans and british media considered Liverpool among the elite football clubs. Now, everybody outside Manchester United fans do

I'd say Klopp's been doing a terrific job and they seem to be on the right track. Let's face it: would they have managed to sign a highly sought-after player like Fabinho two years ago?

 

[Finn MacCool]

Has this turned into another "Klopp is bad, net spend, Mourinho, United, expectations!!!" thing?

Look, far as Klopp and Liverpool are concerned, look at it this way: when Klopp took over Liverpool, nobody outside their own fans and british media considered Liverpool among the elite football clubs. Now, everybody outside Manchester United fans do

I'd say Klopp's been doing a terrific job and they seem to be on the right track. Let's face it: would they have managed to sign a highly sought-after player like Fabinho two years ago?

Wtf are you doing coming into this of all threads and talking complete and utter sense. There is no room for rational analysis when it comes to Liverpool

 

[tenpoless]

Has this turned into another "Klopp is bad, net spend, Mourinho, United, expectations!!!" thing?

Look, far as Klopp and Liverpool are concerned, look at it this way: when Klopp took over Liverpool, nobody outside their own fans and british media considered Liverpool among the elite football clubs. Now, everybody outside Manchester United fans do

I'd say Klopp's been doing a terrific job and they seem to be on the right track. Let's face it: would they have managed to sign a highly sought-after player like Fabinho two years ago?

No, not really, Liverpool have always been among the elite football clubs: Five times, heavy metal football, great tradition and all that.

Although so far, They haven't shown trophies for it. I'd say We need to wait and see before considering them to be one of the top clubs in the world(I don't even consider United to be one of them at the moment because We have little to show for it, while City is getting closer). Liverpool almost won the league with the combination of Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling and played really exciting football, everyone thought it was finally their time to be finally back on top, guess what happened next?

"They seem to be on the right track" is purely an opinion. Had They won the CL I would have agreed but let's wait and see because They're a weird bunch. One day looking like a team that's capable of beating Barcelona while playing beautiful football, the next day They lose to fecking West Brom at home.

 

[TsuWave]

I'd say Klopp's been doing a terrific job and they seem to be on the right track. Let's face it: would they have managed to sign a highly sought-after player like Fabinho two years ago?

uh, yes they would. It’s not like there was an intense tug of war for Fabinho, despite him being a good player, or that he’s coming from a hard to buy from European giant, no disrespect to Monaco. They have made these signings time and time again, Torres, Suarez etc.

You’re talking as if Liverpool was West Brom status out here and Klopp suddenly made them a decent club. weird.

 

[Klopper76]

No, not really, Liverpool have always been among the elite football clubs: Five times, heavy metal football, great tradition and all that.

Although so far, They haven't shown trophies for it. I'd say We need to wait and see before considering them to be one of the top clubs in the world(I don't even consider United to be one of them at the moment because We have little to show for it, while City is getting closer). Liverpool almost won the league with the combination of Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling and played really exciting football, everyone thought it was finally their time to be finally back on top, guess what happened next?

"They seem to be on the right track" is purely an opinion. Had They won the CL I would have agreed but let's wait and see because They're a weird bunch. One day looking like a team that's capable of beating Barcelona while playing beautiful football, the next day They lose to fecking West Brom at home.

We all have our bad days at home against West Brom.

 

[giorno]

uh, yes they would. It’s not like there was an intense tug of war for Fabinho, despite him being a good player, or that he’s coming from a hard to buy from European giant, no disrespect to Monaco. They have made these signings time and time again, Torres, Suarez etc.

You’re talking as if Liverpool was West Brom status out here and Klopp suddenly made them a decent club. weird.

Fabinho was an example, you can substitute him for Ox, or Van Dijk. Point is a highly sought-after player(and make no mistake, liverpool did beat at least Atletico Madrid to him) would not jump at the chance to sign for liverpool like that.

Btw, Torres was signed in 2007, they had just played in their second CL final in 3 years. And they beat noone to Suarez

Liverpool were the english inter or milan before Klopp

 

[Smores]

Liverpool fans seem to want it both ways claiming they're on the rise, they've brought in top players and they can challenge but put those expectations on the manager and suddenly they'll do a 180.

Same with Spurs to be fair, they'll find every reason why they're as good us and why their manager is better...as soon as that turns into expectation the excuses come out

 

[haram]

Liverpool fans acting like they have lost a top player every year Klopp has been manager. They literally sold Coutinho for £140 million. He isn’t really worth that much and that’s a lot of money to invest into the team.

The fact that he has had to sell players like Sakho and Benteke means feck all. He has spent a lot of money and people want to hide behind 'net spend'.

 

[prath92]

Fabinho was an example, you can substitute him for Ox, or Van Dijk. Point is a highly sought-after player(and make no mistake, liverpool did beat at least Atletico Madrid to him) would not jump at the chance to sign for liverpool like that.

Btw, Torres was signed in 2007, they had just played in their second CL final in 3 years. And they beat noone to Suarez

Liverpool were the english inter or milan before Klopp

Ox and VvD wasn’t highly sought after (VvD at that price). Conte wanted Ox as a wing back and that put him off a move to that club as he wanted to play as a CM. City wanted VvD but the price reportedly put them off and they bought Laporte for a lower price.

 

[Zoo]

Fabinho was an example, you can substitute him for Ox, or Van Dijk. Point is a highly sought-after player(and make no mistake, liverpool did beat at least Atletico Madrid to him) would not jump at the chance to sign for liverpool like that.

Btw, Torres was signed in 2007, they had just played in their second CL final in 3 years. And they beat noone to Suarez

Liverpool were the english inter or milan before Klopp

Ox and Van Dijk were hardly sought after. And they offered a lot more money for Fabinho then Atleti.

 

[Magnus]

GK
Arnold VvD Louvren Robertson
Salah Fabinho Keita Mane
Fekir
Firmino

I don't like this at all. Infact I feel ill. They are progressing in a very high speed and I fecking hate it.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Ox sought after?

VVD had one desperate club that was willing to pay the ridiculous £75m fee.

 

[Himannv]

I think if they're all set to challenge for the title if they sign a top keeper and a top CB in addition to Fabinho and Fekir. I think they might be satisfied with Louvren and overlook CB and that might leave them slightly incomplete.

 

[StillPlayingFooty]

Look, far as Klopp and Liverpool are concerned, look at it this way: when Klopp took over Liverpool, nobody outside their own fans and british media considered Liverpool among the elite football clubs. Now, everybody outside Manchester United fans do

I'd say Klopp's been doing a terrific job and they seem to be on the right track. Let's face it: would they have managed to sign a highly sought-after player like Fabinho two years ago?

I agree with you.

Liverpool has been on the rise in the media at least. It's not hype generated by Liverpool based media but the European journos too. It's much easier to sell papers/clicks with a team that does things sometimes out of the norm. Liverpool have won some amazing games and bottled some spectacularly. Twists sell things.

Audience always loves the under-dogs but Liverpool have spent A LOT of money on new players so the under-dog narrative will not fly much longer anymore.

Last season made Liverpool a destination to where players seriously consider going. Latest is Mario Götze speaking about how he would love to play for Klopp.

I suspect that Klopp's system of playing attacking football has a pull to any player if you contrast it having to play from the defense first angle.

What I feel that players want to play for Klopp and not Liverpool club foremost ( although every new player always says about rich history etc.....) I mean currently Klopp is a bigger pull than the Liverpool club.

On the contrary I feel vice versa what is the situation at United. The club is a bigger pull than playing for Mourinho. Even though many fans here like to think that players love to come and play for him. Of the current squad did anyone give a interview where they professed that? Sure you have to compliment your boss but really the reason they love things at United is Mou? Players and fans like the fact that he has been known to win things but United and Mourinho are also desperate to win something soon or they face the problem of losing their pulls respectively. Preferably in the next two seasons. Give it 5 more years more post Fergie hangover and United will join Liverpool in the ranks of has beens waiting for a new cycle. So like it or not you are on the clock here too. Currently the best tool United has is the fact that they are indeed one of the absolutely richest clubs there are. But pretty soon they have to show something for the money too.

The glory days are more distant for both clubs further and further away. And both have spent stupendous money to climb back up to the spotlight. So in that sense they are in a very similar situation. And I mean both United and Pool have to do well in UCL. Nobody comes or should come to play United or Pool for the domestic titles. No use to kid ourselves here. That's a fact the bluemoon should very well keep in mind. That's why arab money came and Pep came to do. They couldn't give a rats ass about EPL. That is the sole reason the City winning by a record is so subdued no matter how much noise the fans make.

The future is in the UCL or other European super league.

What I feel the next two seasons will be make it or break it for us in Liverpool and will define how Liverpool fares the next decade. And they are crucial how Klopp will be seen as a manager.

 

[Buchan]

He’s fecking gash! How many balls into touch has he played? His passing is atrocious.

 

[F1D]

He’s fecking gash! How many balls into touch has he played? His passing is atrocious.

My Liverpool supporting friends are pretty disappointed in him, they expected Matic kind performances from him.

 

[breakout67]

Pre-season shouldn't be used as a barometer, but feck me he has been gash in both games I watched. Looks nothing like what he was for Monaco.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Pre-season shouldn't be used as a barometer, but feck me he has been gash in both games I watched. Looks nothing like what he was for Monaco.

I thought he was meant to be the second coming of Christ according to many posters when they believed he turned us down (even though we were never in for him).

 

[Xeno]

He’s fecking gash! How many balls into touch has he played? His passing is atrocious.

He's a RB. He'll be good at the gegenpress, and then give the ball to someone decent.

 

[Klopper76]

Hasn't looked amazing in pre-season but then it is pre-season. I'll judge him when I've seen him play a few games in the Premier League/Champions League.

 

[breakout67]

I thought he was meant to be the second coming of Christ according to many posters when they believed he turned us down (even though we were never in for him).

I don't ever judge players on pre-season and Fabinho is the same for me. But his level is really low during it. Jorginho has looked much more like his Napoli self playing for Chelsea but then it might be because Sarri knows him inside out.