New York Times stands by 'racist tweets' reporter

Archie Leach

Gooner
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
9,031
Location
Hollywood Upstairs Medical College
Supports
Arsenal
It’s both true that what she’s tweeted is a satirical response to constant racist harassment and also that it’s racist and makes her look like a thick and basic dickhead.

She seems a talented and worthy writer and I don’t think NYT should sack her. But she’s probably a knob too.
 

villain

Hates Beyoncé
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
14,973

Kentonio

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
13,188
Location
Stamford Bridge
Supports
Chelsea
Sure minorities can be racist. But is that comparable to the majority being racist against minorities? No. Also when a member of a minority receives years of racist abuse and responds in kind, is that comparable to a white reporter posting racist slurs against blacks? No, I’d say not.

Racism against minorities can (and often has) led to workplace discrimination, frequent public verbal abuse, discrimination in the justice system and violence, including murder. Sorry if I can’t get excited about a white person getting their feelings hurt.
 

EyeInTheSky

Full Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
9,992
Location
On my sofa enjoying pineapple on its own
Reel it in. A case of a white reporter in the NYC spouting the same shite about someone black or Asian would have a thread and reactions just like this. Only difference would be that the person would be out of a job, so we'd have less controversy to discuss.
This is amusing on a few levels.

Primarily for the reason it was an obvious joke.
 

EyeInTheSky

Full Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
9,992
Location
On my sofa enjoying pineapple on its own
Think that’s the best option :lol:



Would be good to know where somebody said racism is good?



Do I really want to, it’s kinda fun watching you guys
Looks like I rattled some cages with my post. Exactly the type with an axe to grind about how unfair it is that an Asian women lashing out at years of racial abuse is somehow an epidemic and unjust on all the white racists who “cant get away with it” like they used to.
 

villain

Hates Beyoncé
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
14,973
Only you can answer that
I enjoyed your post for what it’s worth, didn’t agree with a whole lot but I appreciated the time taken to formulate your thought process.

The problem is relying on a dictionary definition to define racism. Interestingly it only ever seems to happens with racism, we don’t depend on the dictionary to try to explain other things that that are experienced and felt.
 

Fully Fledged

Full Member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
16,229
Location
Midlands UK
After doing some research, which i probably should've done before i posted it, the context is that she was replying with those tweets as an answer to some racist tweets toward herself.
Still wasn't the smartest idea by her, but it does excuse her a bit.

Many alt-righters are taking advantage of those tweets i can imagine. Also trolls on 4chan are doing what they can to create more drama out of the situation.
No. You can get angry and aggressive without being racist. There is just no justification for abusing somebody else's race.
 

villain

Hates Beyoncé
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
14,973
Looks like I rattled some cages with my post. Exactly the type with an axe to grind about how unfair it is that an Asian women lashing out at years of racial abuse is somehow an epidemic and unjust on all the white racists who “cant get away with it” like they used to.
I love shaking the table a bit
 

Archie Leach

Gooner
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
9,031
Location
Hollywood Upstairs Medical College
Supports
Arsenal
I enjoyed your post for what it’s worth, didn’t agree with a whole lot but I appreciated the time taken to formulate your thought process.

The problem is relying on a dictionary definition to define racism. Interestingly it only ever seems to happens with racism, we don’t depend on the dictionary to try to explain other things that that are experienced and felt.
Really?
 

SwansonsTache

incontinent sexual deviant & German sausage lover
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
15,563
Location
Norway
Exactly the type with an axe to grind about how unfair it is that an Asian women lashing out at years of racial abuse is somehow an epidemic and unjust on all the white racists who “cant get away with it” like they used to.
Yeah, what I mostly took from this story is pure anger at not being able to shout racial abuse on the streets, tweet it or facebook it. Damn white privileges getting reeled in :(
 

villain

Hates Beyoncé
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
14,973
Yep, because the insinuation is that racism only happens when it adheres to the dictionary definition of racism.

If anything the dictionary is reactionary to societal and linguistic changes in society.
 

Redlambs

Creator of the Caftards comics
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
42,260
Location
Officially the best poker player on RAWK.
Oh good, the dictionary argument people use on twitter all the time in these cases and the general discussion about whether or not you can be racist to a white person. Ironically whilst using a whole lot of other words to their dictionary definitions.

Racism is racism and shouldn't be tolerated full stop, imo that's the only way to really push the fight further. It's unsettling to say the least that people want to try to justify it in any form (and before knickers are twisted, I'm not referencing anyone on here).
 

Archie Leach

Gooner
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
9,031
Location
Hollywood Upstairs Medical College
Supports
Arsenal
Yep, because the insinuation is that racism only happens when it adheres to the dictionary definition of racism.

If anything the dictionary is reactionary to societal and linguistic changes in society.
But the dictionary definition is incredibly broad and the only thing it seems to exclude is anti-white racism?

Edit: it doesn’t exclude anti-white racism. But it does cover all racism in its broadness, no?
 

MadMike

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
11,619
Location
London
Yep, because the insinuation is that racism only happens when it adheres to the dictionary definition of racism.

If anything the dictionary is reactionary to societal and linguistic changes in society.
Sure, but for any definition of a word to change a new definition must have reached a certain critical mass with the populace. I don't think we're there in this case, I haven't seen an alternative definition of the word that better fits the description or is more widely accepted.

I don't believe term invocation is a privilege of the racism word alone. It happens farily regularly when we talk about social or political concepts which inherently tend to be misused far more than the factual words like "table" for example. I see people very often have to explain or correct others in the definition of various "isms" like fascism, socialism, libertarianism, feminism etc. etc.

As an irrelevant footnote, I refer to the dictionary very often. I believe that's my 3rd or 4th time this week on this week alone for entirely different words. That's a trait of mine, I'm a bit of stickler for definition and I'm fairly consistent in that regard. :p
 

Halftrack

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
3,953
Location
Chair
Some of her tweets seem bad, but I'm not going to pass judgement without context. I've no trouble believing it was an ill-advised attempt to get back at harassers, and I don't think those are her actual views.

Her tweets about cultural appropriation are hilarious, though. Thing is, a lot of easily offended white people react to accusations of cultural appropriation by going "but then you guys can use our stuff", and proceed to list things that white people didn't invent. Like houses, or windows, or doors, or locks, or furniture, or certain sports, or musical genres, or clothes. In that light, I can't help thinking her tweets or spot on.

Also, Breaking Bad and Battlestar Galactica are just white people being miserable? I fail to see the issue with pointing that out. And as a white man, I agree that white men are bullshit.
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
33,004
Some of her tweets seem bad, but I'm not going to pass judgement without context. I've no trouble believing it was an ill-advised attempt to get back at harassers, and I don't think those are her actual views.

Her tweets about cultural appropriation are hilarious, though. Thing is, a lot of easily offended white people react to accusations of cultural appropriation by going "but then you guys can use our stuff", and proceed to list things that white people didn't invent. Like houses, or windows, or doors, or locks, or furniture, or certain sports, or musical genres, or clothes. In that light, I can't help thinking her tweets or spot on.

Also, Breaking Bad and Battlestar Galactica are just white people being miserable? I fail to see the issue with pointing that out. And as a white man, I agree that white men are bullshit.
What do you mean by the bolded part?
 

villain

Hates Beyoncé
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
14,973
But the dictionary definition is incredibly broad and the only thing it seems to exclude is anti-white racism?
Im not sure what anti-white racism is, surely racism is just racism right? In the same way things like ‘reverse racism’ don’t make sense to me.
I wouldn’t say the dictionary definition is broad at all.

Sure, but for any definition of a word to change a new definition must have reached a certain critical mass with the populace. I don't think we're there in this case, I haven't seen an alternative definition of the word that better fits the description or is more widely accepted.

I don't believe term invocation is a privilege of the racism word alone. It's pretty often invoked when we talk about social or political concepts which inherently tend to be misused far more than the factual words like "table" for example. I see people very often have to explain or correct others in the definition of various "isms" like fascism, socialism, libertarianism etc. etc.

As an irrelevant footnote, I refer to the dictionary very often. I believe that's my 3rd or 4th time this week on this week alone for entirely different words. That's a trait of mine, I'm a bit of stickler for definition and I'm fairly consistent in that regard. :p
What I’m trying to say is that depending on the dictionary to only try and understand what racism is, is a very narrow minded perspective.
Based on the dictionary, if I’m the victim of racism then the only thing that it will result in is my feelings being hurt, or being offended. Because they believe their race is superior to mine - which is what (I presume) happened in the case of this NYT journalist’s tweets.

The dictionary doesn’t begin to describe systemic or institutionalised racism. And it barely distinguishes the differences between racism, prejudice or racial prejudice. Nor does it explain societal differences or historical context which is what you were talking about in your post. You see what I’m saying? Sure, it identifies racism at the most basic level, but you can’t really understand racism by using the dictionary. Therefore using the dictionary to only identify racism is flawed.
 

Halftrack

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
3,953
Location
Chair
What do you mean by the bolded part?
As a group, us white men are pretty bullshit?
He must really have an awful lot of self hate running through his body.
You're wrong, I happen to love myself. A lot.

But seriously, I have no problem with a woman of colour making a general statement that white men are bullshit, especially not in the US, a country run by a bucnh of bullshit white men. You have to actually want to be offended by that statement to be offended by it.
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
33,004
As a group, us white men are pretty bullshit?

You're wrong, I happen to love myself. A lot.

But seriously, I have no problem with a woman of colour making a general statement that white men are bullshit, especially not in the US, a country run by a bucnh of bullshit white men. You have to actually want to be offended by that statement to be offended by it.
Why are white men bullshit?
 

Halftrack

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
3,953
Location
Chair
Why are white men bullshit?
Look at the fecking state of the western world, and you should have your answer. Yes, it's unfair to just write off all white men as bullshit, but who's to blame for the recent rise of sexism, xenophobia and outright racism? It's white men. So I'll forgive a woman of colour for making a general (and probably not 100% serious) twitter post about white men being bullshit.
 

VeevaVee

The worst "V"
Scout
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
46,262
Location
Manchester
Sure minorities can be racist. But is that comparable to the majority being racist against minorities? No. Also when a member of a minority receives years of racist abuse and responds in kind, is that comparable to a white reporter posting racist slurs against blacks? No, I’d say not.

Racism against minorities can (and often has) led to workplace discrimination, frequent public verbal abuse, discrimination in the justice system and violence, including murder. Sorry if I can’t get excited about a white person getting their feelings hurt.
There's a difference between institutional racism and being a racist. Being racist is certainly comparable imo.
It's still spreading hatred into the world, which just causes divide. That's where the two link up - the more of a divide the longer it takes for the institutional side to die. Even if you don't agree with that, it's still just being a dick.
Why should an individual person who's never done anything wrong be made to feel like they have by being grouped like that? It's not the same as years of systematic prejudice, of course, but in its own context away from that it's still not right.
 

VeevaVee

The worst "V"
Scout
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
46,262
Location
Manchester
Look at the fecking state of the western world, and you should have your answer. Yes, it's unfair to just write off all white men as bullshit, but who's to blame for the recent rise of sexism, xenophobia and outright racism? It's white men.
Mainly racists, sexists, and xenophobes, I would have thought.

Also, what recent rise?
 

Halftrack

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
3,953
Location
Chair
Racists, sexists, and xenophobes.
And what do they have in common? Whiteness. So yeah, you'll have to forgive me for not condemning someone on the receiving end of that kind of shit for making a general statement about us as a group.
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
33,004
Look at the fecking state of the western world, and you should have your answer. Yes, it's unfair to just write off all white men as bullshit, but who's to blame for the recent rise of sexism, xenophobia and outright racism? It's white men. So I'll forgive a woman of colour for making a general (and probably not 100% serious) twitter post about white men being bullshit.
Maybe you don't realise it yet but human rights are respected more in Western countries than probably anywhere else in the world. White men contributed to that. We're not there yet, but we're doing much better than other cultures and societies.

Sexism and xenophobia are hardly white-only problems. And they'll never go away because humans are cnuts. But like I said, it's not a white-only problem.
 

the unknown one.

Full Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
1,198
Location
The raven sits ever watchful above my chamber door
Look at the fecking state of the western world, and you should have your answer. Yes, it's unfair to just write off all white men as bullshit, but who's to blame for the recent rise of sexism, xenophobia and outright racism? It's white men. So I'll forgive a woman of colour for making a general (and probably not 100% serious) twitter post about white men being bullshit.
Oh dear.

The rest of the world is in fine order is it?

:lol:

Idiot!
 

VeevaVee

The worst "V"
Scout
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
46,262
Location
Manchester
And what do they have in common? Whiteness. So yeah, you'll have to forgive me for not condemning someone on the receiving end of that kind of shit for making a general statement about us as a group.
Give over. Sexism is rife amongst most cultures. As is racism.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,319
Location
Hollywood CA
What I’m trying to say is that depending on the dictionary to only try and understand what racism is, is a very narrow minded perspective.
Based on the dictionary, if I’m the victim of racism then the only thing that it will result in is my feelings being hurt, or being offended. Because they believe their race is superior to mine - which is what (I presume) happened in the case of this NYT journalist’s tweets.

The dictionary doesn’t begin to describe systemic or institutionalised racism. And it barely distinguishes the differences between racism, prejudice or racial prejudice. Nor does it explain societal differences or historical context which is what you were talking about in your post. You see what I’m saying? Sure, it identifies racism at the most basic level, but you can’t really understand racism by using the dictionary. Therefore using the dictionary to only identify racism is flawed.
I'm not so sure its flawed as the term was never intended to be flexible so that it might one day be redefined beyond its actual meaning.
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
33,004
And what do they have in common? Whiteness. So yeah, you'll have to forgive me for not condemning someone on the receiving end of that kind of shit for making a general statement about us as a group.
My goodness. :lol:
Where do you think a woman would rather live? The West, or Saudi Arabia?
 

SwansonsTache

incontinent sexual deviant & German sausage lover
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
15,563
Location
Norway
And what do they have in common? Whiteness. So yeah, you'll have to forgive me for not condemning someone on the receiving end of that kind of shit for making a general statement about us as a group.
Yeah, women are fleeing in droves from the West to Asia, Africa and the Middle-East where there is nothing of the sort.
 

Archie Leach

Gooner
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
9,031
Location
Hollywood Upstairs Medical College
Supports
Arsenal
Im not sure what anti-white racism is, surely racism is just racism right? In the same way things like ‘reverse racism’ don’t make sense to me.
I wouldn’t say the dictionary definition is broad at all.



What I’m trying to say is that depending on the dictionary to only try and understand what racism is, is a very narrow minded perspective.
Based on the dictionary, if I’m the victim of racism then the only thing that it will result in is my feelings being hurt, or being offended. Because they believe their race is superior to mine - which is what (I presume) happened in the case of this NYT journalist’s tweets.

The dictionary doesn’t begin to describe systemic or institutionalised racism. And it barely distinguishes the differences between racism, prejudice or racial prejudice. Nor does it explain societal differences or historical context which is what you were talking about in your post. You see what I’m saying? Sure, it identifies racism at the most basic level, but you can’t really understand racism by using the dictionary. Therefore using the dictionary to only identify racism is flawed.
This seems incredibly wrong.
 

villain

Hates Beyoncé
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
14,973
I'm not so sure its flawed as the term was never intended to be flexible so that it might one day be redefined beyond its actual meaning.
Which goes back to my original point. Because of the inflexibility, you then have people who deny something racist occurred because it doesn’t line up with the dictionary definition, or believe racism only exists according to the dictionary definition.
 

Redlambs

Creator of the Caftards comics
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
42,260
Location
Officially the best poker player on RAWK.
Which goes back to my original point. Because of the inflexibility, you then have people who deny something racist occurred because it doesn’t line up with the dictionary definition, or believe racism only exists according to the dictionary definition.
This I fully agree with you on. I'm not sure it's the dictionary definition that is at fault though, more their education. I'm not sure what you want it changed to either, do you have an example?


Ironically, it seems Halftrack lives in a Western bubble.
Big time :lol: