Why the negativity against Ed and the Glazers? Sorry I don't follow

[Christie]

I agree that Jose should have identified the right players and no club is going to throw money around to replace players bought in the past season. Why do we need another CB when Jose just bought two last season? If he thinks they are not good enough then he should not have bought them. The club has supported him to buy players. He has basically messed the whole thing. It is not the fault of the club that the players Jose wanted turned out to be duds.

I agree that Pep should have identified the right players and no club is going to throw money around to replace players bought in the past season. Why do we need another GK when Pep just bought one last season? Why do we need another CB when Pep just bought one last season? Why do we need another LB when Pep just bought one last season? If he thinks they are not good enough then he should not have bought them. The club has supported him to buy players. He has basically messed the whole thing. It is not the fault of the club that the players Pep wanted turned out to be duds.

I agree that Klopp should have identified the right players and no club is going to throw money around to replace players bought in the past season. Why do we need another GK when Klopp just bought one last season? Why do we need another midfielder when Klopp just bought one last season? If he thinks they are not good enough then he should not have bought them. The club has supported him to buy players. He has basically messed the whole thing. It is not the fault of the club that the players Klopp wanted turned out to be duds.

Wait...

We laugh at the scousers boom/bust cycle but we have our own cycle, the blame game.

It’s goes:

Manager - Woodie - Glazers

I don’t get the point about Woodie not understanding the game and the footballing side of things. I think he was right not to sign Maguire or Toby.

Maguire’s never worth 75m, had a decent World Cup against some poor sides, but is he really that much of an upgrade? For me, no.

Toby, great player on his day but has struggled for injuries and at 29, those injuries are going to increase. The last thing we need is another crocked centre half and add to that, his contract expires in 12 months, why would we pay 60m+ for him?

To me that shows Woodie has a good understanding of the game and takes a more hollistic view than the fans, as he does consider the commercials and financial impact of such signings. Reading some of these posts make me wonder if the fans would just rather spend money for the sake of it.[/QUOTE

If you think the manager's plan is wrong then you better have a better plan than he has and suggest and execute the alternative you think is better.

Woodie's suggested plan was to buy Varane which is ridiculous as feck and not surprisingly he has failed miserable in executing that.


That is the major issue. Even if you hate Mourinho and successfully got him out, what other kind of manager do you think will be able to succeed in this bullshit environment? Even Pep will go on meltdown if he has to work like this.

 

[M Bison]

@Christie

I can’t quote because your comment was inside the quote.

The issue I have with what your saying is that it’s all guess work. There were early reports of Varane but we don’t know whether this was just media reports or actually true.

Also, “the bullshit environment” you talk of. What do you mean? The only thing I can think of is that the Board alegedly didn’t support José’s view that Toby or Maguire were the right players to buy this summer.

 

[RedStarUnited]

It's not so much about the Glazers (parasites that they are) as Woodward right now.

He's made himself, Mourinho and the club look stupid by giving him a contract extension and then refusing to properly back him this transfer window.

This has then left us effectively in limbo with an a deeply unhappy manager who doesn't have the team he feels he needs to deliver, while also completely undermining him in the eyes of the players and the footballing world.

To make the situation worse Woodward has briefed the media that he refused Mou's targets based on his superior long term thinking from a football perspective (the ego on the man...) without seeming to realise the absurd irony of saying a manager is incapable of making sound decisions for the team while keeping him on at the club.

There are no half measures with a man like Mourinho, you either back him and let him build the team for success (even it is for the short term and at the expense of attractive football) or you get rid. You don't give him a contract extension and then throw him under the bus after the window closes.

It's also fair to seriously question the wisdom of hiring a man like Van Gaal without any real commitment to a complete change in footballing style (evidenced by replacing him with Mourinho, a manager with a totally different approach). I truly believe it was an appointment based purely on LVG's past achievements as opposed to any understanding of what would change on the pitch and the implications for the medium-term future of the club.

In short, I don't think the guy knows what he's doing when it comes to running a football club and he would also appear to be a bit of an egotistical knob.

Klopp also suggested that he put him off joining United by trying to sell him this 'Disneyland' idea of the club which I think says a lot about the guy in charge of our club right now.

The man has somehow, against all the odds managed to get Man United to unprecedented commercial levels in a time period when the on pitch success has been minimal. Thats where the ego probably comes from, he is doing an amazing job financially.

 

[Christie]

@Christie

I can’t quote because your comment was inside the quote.

The issue I have with what your saying is that it’s all guess work. There were early reports of Varane but we don’t know whether this was just media reports or actually true.

Also, “the bullshit environment” you talk of. What do you mean? The only thing I can think of is that the Board alegedly didn’t support José’s view that Toby or Maguire were the right players to buy this summer.

So you are saying that Woodie had no fecking plan at all and just want to veto the manager's plan for the sake of it?

Don't need to doubt the Varane reports, those are words from Ed's brief from the man himself. He actually believes buying Varane is a viable strategy superior to going for Toby.

By bullshit environment I meant having a CEO tell you that your plan sucks and the players you want to buy are not good enough. Then offer you nothing else to work with, telling you that is imaginary plan is superior. Then expect you to carry a shower of shit to the championship because 2nd place isn't good enough and the football is so ugly.

Who can work in an environment like that? I wouldn't take it up if I'm given such a job offer. The only guys who will take up the challenges are grafters hoping to steal a wage and wait to get fired.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

What about him?

The general public know such a small amount about what’s actually happens. We might have bid for him, we might not have done so. Was he even on Jose’s list? Who knows. I don’t, no one on here does.

Considering the strength of the reports and the fact they Jose said he'd given a list of people he wanted per position, it's fair to assume we weren't only interested in Maguire and that Toby was someone Jose wanted.

Would you have been happy with us paying £60m+ for him, considering his recent injury record and being in the last year of his contract? I wouldn’t.

Not the point... The point is that if Jose wanted him here then we can't put the idea that Woody didn't want to buy a CB or support the manager (as the post I quoted suggested) to bed...

 

[M Bison]

So you are saying that Woodie had no fecking plan at all and just want to veto the manager's plan for the sake of it?

Don't need to doubt the Varane reports, those are words from Ed's brief from the man himself. He actually believes buying Varane is a viable strategy superior to going for Toby.

By bullshit environment I meant having a CEO tell you that your plan sucks and the players you want to buy are not good enough. Then offer you nothing else to work with, telling you that is imaginary plan is superior. Then expect you to carry a shower of shit to the championship because 2nd place isn't good enough and the football is so ugly.

Who can work in an environment like that? I wouldn't take it up if I'm given such a job offer. The only guys who will take up the challenges are grafters hoping to steal a wage and wait to get fired.

I see what you’re saying but it’s not down the CEO to create the strategy for the team, regardless of whether he disagrees with what the manager proposes, and Ed certainly should challenge and disagree with you whatever proposals are presented if he sees fit.

If you’re the CEO of a business and the commercial director makes a proposal you disagree with, the commercial director would go away and try again, it wouldn’t be down to the CEO to do their job for them. That’s overly simplistic but hopefully you get my point.

 

[M Bison]

Considering the strength of the reports and the fact they Jose said he'd given a list of people he wanted per position, it's fair to assume we weren't only interested in Maguire and that Toby was someone Jose wanted.



Not the point... The point is that if Jose wanted him here then we can't put the idea that Woody didn't want to buy a CB or support the manager (as the post I quoted suggested) to bed...

Of course it’s the point, if Jose wanted Toby here but the numbers don’t stack up, then it’s not the right thing to do.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Because the Glazers are the biggest reason why we are in this situation for half a decade now.
They didn’t invest when the club needed it the most (post-Ronaldo), when so many fantastic players were “overlooked” in favor of Owen, Valencia, Smalling, Hernandez, Young, etc...
No way that was on SAF, he wanted his third CL title more than anything.

 

[Sultan]

What about Alderwiereld?

I don't have a clue mate like most journalists.

 

[Sultan]

Showing interest in a player and actively pursuing your target are two different things entirely. Football clubs consistently state that their players are unavailable to buy, only to see them sold at a later date for an exorbitant amount of money. It's all part of an ongoing process.

Is there any evidence suggesting that United placed a concrete bid for Maguire at any point over the summer, rather than a typically generic enquiry?

I'm also clueless.

However, reading between the lines Maguire admitted he was called into the office and was told he was not for sale by the owners or their representatives, which suggests there was genuine interest. How, why, when, how much, I don't have a clue or want to confuse my mind over the matter.

We have a squad, the transfer window has shut and what's important now is the players, manager, coaches, fans, and those looking after the financials should just get on with the job of trying to make the best of the situation and try their best to remedy any shortcomings in the future. If the results don't go our way, that's sport. Pointing fingers of blame will not improve our position.

 

[sunama]

So you are saying that Woodie had no fecking plan at all and just want to veto the manager's plan for the sake of it?

Not for the sake of it.
He did so, to reduce expenditure, to increase profit.

Regarding the plan: that was the plan; get through the transfer window, spending as little as possible.
The long term plan is top 4, while spending as little as possible. From a business angle, this is a terrific strategy to use, to make as much money as possible, from a football club.
I would even argue that during SAF's reign, this strategy was in play.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Because the Glazers are the biggest reason why we are in this situation for half a decade now.
They didn’t invest when the club needed it the most (post-Ronaldo), when so many fantastic players were “overlooked” in favor of Owen, Valencia, Smalling, Hernandez, Young, etc...
No way that was on SAF, he wanted his third CL title more than anything.

Totally agree.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Not for the sake of it.
He did so, to reduce expenditure, to increase profit.

Regarding the plan: that was the plan; get through the transfer window, spending as little as possible.
The long term plan is top 4, while spending as little as possible. From a business angle, this is a terrific strategy to use, to make as much money as possible, from a football club.
I would even argue that during SAF's reign, this strategy was in play.

Yep. Seems obvious to me too. Not obvious to all by the looks of some of the comments. .

 

[FootyGirl88]

Because the Glazers are the biggest reason why we are in this situation for half a decade now.
They didn’t invest when the club needed it the most (post-Ronaldo), when so many fantastic players were “overlooked” in favor of Owen, Valencia, Smalling, Hernandez, Young, etc...
No way that was on SAF, he wanted his third CL title more than anything.

I agree - Fergie would of loved to have Augero etc if he was given the money to spend on them.

 

[sugar_kane]

The man has somehow, against all the odds managed to get Man United to unprecedented commercial levels in a time period when the on pitch success has been minimal. Thats where the ego probably comes from, he is doing an amazing job financially.

Not sure what that has to do with the points I made but I guarantee that if we continue to falter on the pitch over a long enough period then commercial success will also start to dwindle.

There is only so long we can trade on past success and style before sponsors start to abandon us.

The reason we’re so attractive commercially right now is because of our international fan base. That won’t last forever in these fickle times without style and success feeding it

 

[Foxbatt]

I agree that Pep should have identified the right players and no club is going to throw money around to replace players bought in the past season. Why do we need another GK when Pep just bought one last season? Why do we need another CB when Pep just bought one last season? Why do we need another LB when Pep just bought one last season? If he thinks they are not good enough then he should not have bought them. The club has supported him to buy players. He has basically messed the whole thing. It is not the fault of the club that the players Pep wanted turned out to be duds.

I agree that Klopp should have identified the right players and no club is going to throw money around to replace players bought in the past season. Why do we need another GK when Klopp just bought one last season? Why do we need another midfielder when Klopp just bought one last season? If he thinks they are not good enough then he should not have bought them. The club has supported him to buy players. He has basically messed the whole thing. It is not the fault of the club that the players Klopp wanted turned out to be duds.

Wait...

What has Liverpool or City got to do with United? Jose had a team of players when he came. He had 6 months to do nothing but look at potential players for his new club that he only took over in June. He knew he was going to take over end of the season after he got sacked from Chelsea. He found players and he bought them. He had now enough of transfer windows to source the players he wanted.
If the club had rejected the players he wanted then it is another issue. They did not reject him but got him two CBs he wanted. He got the striker he wanted. They got him the most expensive midfield player in the world. He already had the best keeper in the World. They got him Zlatan too.
He simply cannot expect that they will buy him whatever he wants? He has to justify his purchases just as anyone else has to.
Just back to Pep, how many keepers did he buy to play as the number 1? I do not think he bought more than two keepers. Jose bought two CBs, while there are two International CBs already in the club as a back up. So that theory of Pep or Klopp buying players after rejecting players they already bought does not hold water.

 

[Sultan]

Kids can't have everything when visiting a toy shop. Unfortunately, Jose cannot have everything he desires and neither can the fans. The world of finance does not work that way. A quick glance at the likes of Leeds and other major clubs who have struggled due to wrong decisions by managers and execs suggests we spend within our means.

 

[Foxbatt]

Because the Glazers are the biggest reason why we are in this situation for half a decade now.
They didn’t invest when the club needed it the most (post-Ronaldo), when so many fantastic players were “overlooked” in favor of Owen, Valencia, Smalling, Hernandez, Young, etc...
No way that was on SAF, he wanted his third CL title more than anything.

It has got nothing to do with the money that he did not get his third title. He simply messed it up tactically in the 1st Final against Barca. Surely he got have got a better midfield duo or trio for something not expensive. I mean compared to what we had then.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Not sure what that has to do with the points I made but I guarantee that if we continue to falter on the pitch over a long enough period then commercial success will also start to dwindle.

There is only so long we can trade on past success and style before sponsors start to abandon us.

The reason we’re so attractive commercially right now is because of our international fan base. That won’t last forever in these fickle times without style and success feeding it

You said he doesn't know how to run a football club and he has an ego. I then told you why he has that ego and that he clearly knows how to run a football, in the financial sense.

 

[M Bison]

Not for the sake of it.
He did so, to reduce expenditure, to increase profit.

Regarding the plan: that was the plan; get through the transfer window, spending as little as possible.
The long term plan is top 4, while spending as little as possible. From a business angle, this is a terrific strategy to use, to make as much money as possible, from a football club.
I would even argue that during SAF's reign, this strategy was in play.

I don’t think that was the strategy, if a player was available at the right price and it improved the team, the transfer window may have been different.

However neither of us or anyone on this forum truly knows either way.

 

[M Bison]

Kids can't have everything when visiting a toy shop. Unfortunately, Jose cannot have everything he desires and neither can the fans. The world of finance does not work that way. A quick glance at the likes of Leeds and other major clubs who have struggled due to wrong decisions by managers and execs suggests we spend within our means.

Precisely.

Reading this forum, it seems our fans would only be happy if we’d spent another £100m as that would show a “strategy”.

Maybe the Execs of one of the biggest businesses in the world know what they’re doing, and understand the business and its product (on-field performances) better than the members of Redcafe.

 

[Revan]

Not for the sake of it.
He did so, to reduce expenditure, to increase profit.

Regarding the plan: that was the plan; get through the transfer window, spending as little as possible.
The long term plan is top 4, while spending as little as possible. From a business angle, this is a terrific strategy to use, to make as much money as possible, from a football club.
I would even argue that during SAF's reign, this strategy was in play.

Repeating this a million times doesn't make it necessarily true. Considering that since Sir Alex left we have spent on transfer more than any other club than city, we have the highest wage bill in EPL, and we have hired proven winners like LVG and Mourinho, I really doubt that the long term plan is top 4. You don't spend like champions in order to get fourth place, it just makes no sense.

Reducing expenditure to increase profit is a very simplistic approach which typically is not used in big companies. What they instead do, is to invest all the money they had in order to generate bigger revenues and so bigger profit. And typically, when you get bigger revenues and bigger profits, then also the stock value increases, which is the end goal of Glazers.

 

[Revan]

I agree - Fergie would of loved to have Augero etc if he was given the money to spend on them.

On the same transfer window, he spent around that amount of money (that Aguero cost) on Young and Jones, neither of which was priority considering that we had Nani and Valencia as wingers, and Rio, Vidic, Smalling and Evans as CBs. We also had on attack Rooney, Hernandez, Welbeck and Berbatov, with whom we won the league and reached UCL final. If Fergie wanted Kun Aguero (even assuming that Glazers were not willing to give more money to him), all he had to do was to delay the signing of those two I mentioned, and get Kun instead.

Fergie was never much into spending big money in players coming from outside of EPL, probably because of the failure of Veron, which essentially meant that we went for lesser EPL players whom cost as much as foreign imports (like signing Young instead of Mata, or getting Jones instead of Varane). And to be fair to him, it was a strategy that worked extremely well for him.

 

[Rory 7]

Precisely.

Reading this forum, it seems our fans would only be happy if we’d spent another £100m as that would show a “strategy”.

Maybe the Execs of one of the biggest businesses in the world know what they’re doing, and understand the business and its product (on-field performances) better than the members of Redcafe.

Repeating this a million times doesn't make it necessarily true. Considering that since Sir Alex left we have spent on transfer more than any other club than city, we have the highest wage bill in EPL, and we have hired proven winners like LVG and Mourinho, I really doubt that the long term plan is top 4. You don't spend like champions in order to get fourth place, it just makes no sense.

Reducing expenditure to increase profit is a very simplistic approach which typically is not used in big companies. What they instead do, is to invest all the money they had in order to generate bigger revenues and so bigger profit. And typically, when you get bigger revenues and bigger profits, then also the stock value increases, which is the end goal of Glazers.

Why does a thread like this always degenerate into a debate a transfer spending? When I talk about the lack of vision, planning or 'strategy' for the football side of things at the club I'm talking about much more than transfer spend.

 

[Revan]

Why does a thread like this always degenerate into a debate a transfer spending? When I talk about the lack of vision, planning or 'strategy' for the football side of things at the club I'm talking about much more than transfer spend.

I actually agree with you that there doesn't seem to be a long-term strategy, or a good long-term strategy, already said to you. What I don't agree, is that we are aiming for top 4, because in fact we are spending like real challengers.

The criticism should be addressed towards what seems to be incompetency (Woody ain't Gill and Mourinho isn't Fergie, they should have known it and hire extra people), rather than the lack of spending, which is an imaginary thing.

 

[JPRouve]

Why does a thread like this always degenerate into a debate a transfer spending? When I talk about the lack of vision, planning or 'strategy' for the football side of things at the club I'm talking about much more than transfer spend.

It's very difficult to discuss about something that doesn't exist or at least is invisible from the outside. Personally, I try to use clues like manager hirings and the only common denominator is experience which for me leads to only two conclusions they either think that it's the most important attribute or it's the only attribute that they are able to evaluate. What is your opinion about it?

 

[Rory 7]

I actually agree with you that there doesn't seem to be a long-term strategy, or a good long-term strategy, already said to you. What I don't agree, is that we are aiming for top 4, because in fact we are spending like real challengers.

The criticism should be addressed towards what seems to be incompetency (Woody ain't Gill and Mourinho isn't Fergie, they should have known it and hire extra people), rather than the lack of spending, which is an imaginary thing.

Agree. Lack of spending can't be levelled at them. Incompetence this summer and other summers can. All linked to their lack for long-term focus or strategy. To me thats the most obvious evidence of their mis-managment. They see a quick buck. So much so that even with years of a 'head start' they couldn't plan effectively for SAFs retirement. Its all about the quick buck. These owners are opportunists. Have been from the outset.

 

[Rory 7]

It's very difficult to discuss about something that doesn't exist or at least is invisible from the outside. Personally, I try to use clues like manager hirings and the only common denominator is experience which for me leads to only two conclusions they either think that it's the most important attribute or it's the only attribute that they are able to evaluate. What is your opinion about it?

I honestly don't think they have a clue about the sporting side of things. I think this is driven by their short-termism fast buck driven outlook. They've ballsed up the post-Fergie transition royally. Thats all they evidence I need to convince me the Glazers and Ed are totally clueless on the football side of things. And whats worse they keep chopping and changing the people that might help them.

 

[Christie]

I see what you’re saying but it’s not down the CEO to create the strategy for the team, regardless of whether he disagrees with what the manager proposes, and Ed certainly should challenge and disagree with you whatever proposals are presented if he sees fit.

If you’re the CEO of a business and the commercial director makes a proposal you disagree with, the commercial director would go away and try again, it wouldn’t be down to the CEO to do their job for them. That’s overly simplistic but hopefully you get my point.

LOL how about you make a proposal as a commercial director and your CEO tells you your proposal suck right at the project deadline (transfer window deadline) so you can't do anything about it?

Besides, Mourinho has a list of several players so that's several plans the commercial director has presented to the CEO. If you don't like spending so much money on a 29 year old defender you can go for the 24 year old Maguire instead, that's Plan B.

Of course the CEO is will just come down and tell you that all your plans suck and his plan is the best, which is to sign Varane for 100 million. Any other plans are inferior in his mind. In that case why hire a commercial director? Why not just let the CEO do the coaching instead?

Of course it’s the point, if Jose wanted Toby here but the numbers don’t stack up, then it’s not the right thing to do.

So basically we're skint. That's not Mourinho's fault. We must learn to accept out new targets as a club.

What has Liverpool or City got to do with United? Jose had a team of players when he came. He had 6 months to do nothing but look at potential players for his new club that he only took over in June. He knew he was going to take over end of the season after he got sacked from Chelsea. He found players and he bought them. He had now enough of transfer windows to source the players he wanted.
If the club had rejected the players he wanted then it is another issue. They did not reject him but got him two CBs he wanted. He got the striker he wanted. They got him the most expensive midfield player in the world. He already had the best keeper in the World. They got him Zlatan too.
He simply cannot expect that they will buy him whatever he wants? He has to justify his purchases just as anyone else has to.
Just back to Pep, how many keepers did he buy to play as the number 1? I do not think he bought more than two keepers. Jose bought two CBs, while there are two International CBs already in the club as a back up. So that theory of Pep or Klopp buying players after rejecting players they already bought does not hold water.

"Blah blah blah blah what has other teams got to do with us? So what if they spend millions upon millions? We should be able to win doing the exact opposite of what other winning teams are doing! Because we are Manchester United!"

"Pep and Klopp has a system that plays 2 keepers on the pitch, so they bought two keepers! That is great planning! Mourinho's system plays two CBs on the pitch and has got 2 CBs, so that is exactly like Pep and Klopp who wants to play with 2 keepers! Hell yeah buying players after rejecting players they already bought does not hold water!"

I actually agree with you that there doesn't seem to be a long-term strategy, or a good long-term strategy, already said to you. What I don't agree, is that we are aiming for top 4, because in fact we are spending like real challengers.

The criticism should be addressed towards what seems to be incompetency (Woody ain't Gill and Mourinho isn't Fergie, they should have known it and hire extra people), rather than the lack of spending, which is an imaginary thing.

Look this guy still doesn't get it, he still thinks we have spent and are aiming to be title challengers.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Until this summer i was very pleased with them. Moyes year was disaster. After that they did everything right. They hired 2 world class managers( lvg was world class and at that moment was everything what we needed). They bought all players what managers wanted.

This year they fecked it up. And they fecked it up big. Ed didn't sell deadwood and didn't bought what manager wanted. They clearly decided that top4 is good enough. Which is unacceptable for this club

 

[JPRouve]

I honestly don't think they have a clue about the sporting side of things. I think this is driven by their short-termism fast buck driven outlook. They've ballsed up the post-Fergie transition royally. Thats all they evidence I need to convince me the Glazers and Ed are totally clueless on the football side of things. And whats worse they keep chopping and changing the people that might help them.

There is one thing though, if I'm not mistaken Woodward has mentioned United's tradition a lot in the last five year particularly when it comes to the manager and reporters like Mitten have also mentioned United's way of doing things when the club felt the need to justify their decisions. I don't think that the Glazer are clueless when it comes to sport management but I think that they are mistakenly trying to stay too close to a mancunian ideal, they are already seen as outsiders and if they openly or quickly break that ideal some fans won't like it at all. You just have to look at threads where the DOF model is mentioned or how some reporters reacted when it was first mentioned.

 

[M Bison]

LOL how about you make a proposal as a commercial director and your CEO tells you your proposal suck right at the project deadline (transfer window deadline) so you can't do anything about it?

Besides, Mourinho has a list of several players so that's several plans the commercial director has presented to the CEO. If you don't like spending so much money on a 29 year old defender you can go for the 24 year old Maguire instead, that's Plan B.

Of course the CEO is will just come down and tell you that all your plans suck and his plan is the best, which is to sign Varane for 100 million. Any other plans are inferior in his mind. In that case why hire a commercial director? Why not just let the CEO do the coaching instead?



So basically we're skint. That's not Mourinho's fault. We must learn to accept out new targets as a club.

.

Again you’re guessing without knowing any of the facts and basing what you’re saying on media reports that have very little substance. All we know is Ed didn’t agree with Jose on his targets and the prices quoted, which is a perfectly reasonable approach from Ed. If Ed did pull the plug on Toby and Maguire at the prices reported in the media, I think he made the right call.

In regards the final point, at no point did I say we’re skint, I said the numbers didn’t work which is something completely different!

 

[roseguy64]

There is one thing though, if I'm not mistaken Woodward has mentioned United's tradition a lot in the last five year particularly when it comes to the manager and reporters like Mitten have also mentioned United's way of doing things when the club felt the need to justify their decisions. I don't think that the Glazer are clueless when it comes to sport management but I think that they are mistakenly trying to stay too close to a mancunian ideal, they are already seen as outsiders and if they openly or quickly break that ideal some fans won't like it at all. You just have to look at threads where the DOF model is mentioned or how some reporters reacted when it was first mentioned.

This is my view on why they didn't want a DoF. Following the model that was successful. It wasn't incompetence. They were just following through on success.

 

[tjb]

Kids can't have everything when visiting a toy shop. Unfortunately, Jose cannot have everything he desires and neither can the fans. The world of finance does not work that way. A quick glance at the likes of Leeds and other major clubs who have struggled due to wrong decisions by managers and execs suggests we spend within our means.

The issue isn't that. Somehow, we have a squad in which our defenders cannot play football and our wingers cannot dribble. We have not been able to sell players either. In fact, our squad was so bad when mourinho came in, that de gea was the only guy that one could say should have been in the starting 11. Now we have reinforced and plugged a few gaps. However Woodward should have been able to decipher this, as any football person who knew the predicament of the squad under LVG would know. For me, since his role also includes selling players at value, woodward has done a poor job on the football side of things. His buys have been overpriced, with the ones under Moyes and Van Gaal being complete flops, his sales have been well below value, and the contracts handed have been shockingly high. He needs to focus on the finance side, and leave the negotiations to a new person.

 

[Random Task]

Repeating this a million times doesn't make it necessarily true. Considering that since Sir Alex left we have spent on transfer more than any other club than city, we have the highest wage bill in EPL, and we have hired proven winners like LVG and Mourinho, I really doubt that the long term plan is top 4. You don't spend like champions in order to get fourth place, it just makes no sense.

Reducing expenditure to increase profit is a very simplistic approach which typically is not used in big companies. What they instead do, is to invest all the money they had in order to generate bigger revenues and so bigger profit. And typically, when you get bigger revenues and bigger profits, then also the stock value increases, which is the end goal of Glazers.

Can people please stop ignoring this glaringly obvious point?

The Glazers have been anything but tightfisted when it comes to transfer market expenditure, this point has been made on numerous occasions throughout this thread yet people insist on suggesting otherwise. So annoying.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I honestly don't think they have a clue about the sporting side of things. I think this is driven by their short-termism fast buck driven outlook. They've ballsed up the post-Fergie transition royally. Thats all they evidence I need to convince me the Glazers and Ed are totally clueless on the football side of things. And whats worse they keep chopping and changing the people that might help them.

They have been here 13 years and no sign of going anywhere - you can cause the Glazers of many things (a lot I would probably disagree with), but you can’t say they are in this for the short term.

 

[M Bison]

I honestly don't think they have a clue about the sporting side of things. I think this is driven by their short-termism fast buck driven outlook. They've ballsed up the post-Fergie transition royally. Thats all they evidence I need to convince me the Glazers and Ed are totally clueless on the football side of things. And whats worse they keep chopping and changing the people that might help them.

I can’t believe people persist with this point, what you’re essentially saying is that’s Ed is too thick to do his job. He’s in charge of one of the biggest brands in the world, do you honestly think he doesn’t understand its product and the impact it has on the businesses commercial success?

 

[Rory 7]

They have been here 13 years and no sign of going anywhere - you can cause the Glazers of many things (a lot I would probably disagree with), but you can’t say they are in this for the short term.

I didn’t say they are ‘in it for the short term’. I said the way they manage the football side of things is too short term in focus, they haven’t demonstrated any sense of long term planning on the sporting side of things since SAF retired. Re-read what I’m saying.

 

[Rory 7]

I can’t believe people persist with this point, what you’re essentially saying is that’s Ed is too thick to do his job. He’s in charge of one of the biggest brands in the world, do you honestly think he doesn’t understand its product and the impact it has on the businesses commercial success?

What the feck has being good with brands got to do with managing the sporting plans for a football club? I work in marketing. I know all about brands. I wouldn’t claim to be able to plan or develop a strategy for the success of any sporting team or football club. Ed, like me, is great with ‘brands’. And, also like me, he’s crap at sport! Brand management, commercial management is not the same as sports management. Our owners have NO long term plan for United as a sporting entity. If you want to applaud their brand management fair play to you. But I’m taking them to task as so called ‘benefactors’ of a great FOOTBALL club.

 

[M Bison]

What the feck has being good with brands got to do with managing the sporting plans for a football club? I work in marketing. I know all about brands. I wouldn’t claim to be able to plan or develop a strategy for the success of any sporting team or football club. Ed, like me, is great with ‘brands’. And, also like me, he’s crap at sport! Brand management, commercial management is not the same as sports management. Our owners have NO long term plan for United as a sporting entity. If you want to applaud their brand management fair play to you. But I’m taking them to task as so called ‘benefactors’ of a great FOOTBALL club.

Because having a good product (ie performing well and winning things) will enhance the brand and improve the revenue the business generates.

I’m sure Ed as someone who has worked in senior positions all his career realises that and doesn’t operate on a short term/all about profit approach - or to coin your phrase “fast buck driven outlook”