[Berba's_Flick]

Absolutely right. Ive decided especially this season to free myself from that shit and make my own informed choice about this club as I seem to be able to do a lot better as a 10 year old child who never read a newspaper or the internet than as a 50 year on adult being spoon fed by their lies and bullshit.

Unfortunately we are a minority. I fully expect Jose to be sacked this season. I will be sad not because I like Jose, but because it will put us back 3 years and start the next witch hunt for the new fall guy

 

[bucky]

What the hell sort of stats are those?

https://www.optasports.com/services/analytics/advanced-metrics/

 

[Trizy]

I guess this puts the ''would you be happy not winning if we played well'' question to bed.

I wasn't angry or sad over yesterdays loss. Playing well and pressing was actually a breath of fresh air. Also it's damning how our (fans) expectations have fallen, massively.

 

[space]

I didn't even think we were that good in the first half..

 

[Danillaco]

Ouch...

Shaw was good though

I think it's one of the only positives. He was very good.

 

[Canagel]

I've just seen a replay of the 2nd goal. Jones getting caught out and Herrera bottling the tackle and then Jones running into Herrera is just comical. gets worse every time you watch it.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I didn't even think we were that good in the first half..

We weren't...

Apparently running around a bit more whilst creating a couple of half decent chances and looking shoddy at the back = a really good performance.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Erm... have you seen our defence?

They already looked shaky in the first half... the idea that they would stand up well to a Spurs side going on the attack and trying to get back into the game can be easily disputed.

We played okay in the first half and created some half chances, but we were hardly great, and then in the second half we were just poor... so yeah I'd say we were bad overall.

The big difference for me is that Spurs looked organised and we didn't... at all.

Yes our defence was shocking against Brighton but we didn’t really look bad against Spurs.

Until Kane scored from their first corner I thought we were marginally the more dominant team & I really don’t think we would have lost that game if we actually starred taking easy chances.

I disagree. Against Brighton I thought we were a shambles & rightfully criticised. But last night I just felt sorry for them as they didn’t deserve that at all in my eyes.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

We have now lost the same number of games this season that City lost ALL of last season.

 

[Water Melon]

Some desire and urgency does not mean top football. Spurs deserved their win, we were toothless and conceded three, not one but three. Did not look like fighting back at all. Jose needs to go. We did play better than against Brighton should never be an indicator of a progress. We played 3 games, lost 2. We are into third season and still look clueless. Chelsea look like a proper team after one month. Enough is enough.

 

[endless_wheelies]

We might have a different manager by then.

Plus it's harder to pull off with a direct rival.

Spurs won't sell mid-season. You had the chance this summer, but United refused to include Martial in the deal … and so not surprisingly Levy refused to sell Toby in return.

Depends, Tottenham are about to lose him for £25m next summer, if they can get a direct replacement in January also (De Ligt if Ajax go out the CL?) and enough cash to make Levy look good there's no doubt they'd do it.

Yeah his relationship with the players was so broken he won 3 CLs on the bounce. If his league campaign was a horror show what was Mourinho's in 15/16? And did that deter you from wanting him at the club? Or did Mourinho leaving nearly every job in his 3rd year?

Right so Mourinho sort of developed one player. That's incredible I guess. No manager has ever done that.

I'm not deterred from Zidane, I wouldn't mind him but I absolutely want to keep Mourinho first and foremost. I'm curious as to your reasoning though... you specifically say you don't like Mourinho's short-termism and that we shouldn't go for the next manager just for the allure of their past glories, yet how has Zidane proven himself to be any different?

If you watched much of Real Madrid's Champions League run last season very little of it had to do with genius management, and he very specifically said that his issues with Bale and Ronaldo were big factors in having to leave after just three seasons.

 

[Member 5225]

@James Peril - what do you think of Pogba rating?

 

[GlastonSpur]

Depends, Tottenham are about to lose him for £25m next summer, if they can get a direct replacement in January also (De Ligt if Ajax go out the CL?) and enough cash to make Levy look good there's no doubt they'd do it ...

In that event De Light would be CL cup-tied, so not the greatest time to sign him. Moreover, assuming we're still in the CL at that stage I strongly doubt Spurs would be willing to lose a top-class CB like Toby mid-campaign.

Also, we're not necessarily going to lose him for £25m next summer. For starters he may choose to sign a new contract, and even if he doesn't, even if several clubs bid £25m Toby might not want to go to any of them.

 

[Borden]

I didn't even think we were that good in the first half..

We weren't, but at least it looked like the player tried this time, as opposed to the Brighton game, at least in the first half.

I don't think I've ever felt so dejected this early in a season before. Considering Shaw and Pogba's comments after the game last night it doesn't seem like Mourinho has lost the players either, which I have no idea whether should count as a positive or a negative. Desperately need a good performance and a win against Burnley, or this season could go completely off the rails.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Three games played, 7 goals against - I wonder if Mourinho has averaged >2 goals against per game across 3 games (or more) ever before.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Three games played, 7 goals against - I wonder if Mourinho has averaged >2 goals against per game across 3 games (or more) ever before.

Probably happened during his last season at Chelsea.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Probably happened during his last season at Chelsea.

You're right, they started with 9 goals against after 4 games. And even had 14 GA after 7.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

We have now lost the same number of games this season that City lost ALL of last season.

You get these kinds of stats when you compare a work in progress against a well oiled machine.

 

[GledTheRed]

 

[GledTheRed]

 

[GledTheRed]

 

[Havak]

This was one of the strangest games in my watching of United ever. I've been watching United when possible for as long as I can remember, probably 25 years or so of actually being old enough to know what's going on. It's such an odd feeling to think we played really well, or at least a much more attractive style of football since the Sir Alex days and come away with one of our heaviest home defeats. I think we lost two home games 0-3 when Moyes was in charge, but this is the biggest defeat I can remember us taking at home without having a player sent off (and not counting the disaster that was David Moyes).

The game itself is strange because I think if we played it another nine times, we wouldn't lose again, and we'd probably win about seven of them. That first half was like Gary said in the studio, the fastest we've played for quite some time. It wasn't just a higher tempo either, it was everything. Everything but the goals we probably deserved. Maybe if Lukaku is 10 games into the season we take a 2- or 3-0 lead in at the break and it's a comfortable home win. However, our defensive woes hurt us again as once we let the first goal in, we crumbled slightly, again missing a big chance to get back into it. However, I think there are quite a few positives (as well as some negatives) to take from it:

Pros:

- Luke Shaw was excellent and had been pretty good in the first two games as well. Assuming he avoids injury, not signing a Left Back like most of us wanted could be the right call. This is the best he's played since the ankle break so long may it continue! Even more telling was when Luke was the first player Jose went to speak to at the end of the game. I'm sure his words were something along the line of "You deserved better than this, you played really well".

- Valencia, Smalling, Herrera, Matic, and Lingard all looked very good in what was pretty much their first competitive minutes of the season. Just getting all of them on the pitch for so long is good. Hopefully, they can do the same against Burnley and build fitness over the International Break before kicking on for the rest of the campaign. Smalling was particularly good and should start every game at CB - we need to build a partnership with him for the rest of the season.

- We played a great first half for sure and at 0-2 down we looked OK at least. It's easy to play when you're losing, so we can't look into that too much, but if we can play more like the first half a lot, then I'm sure we will win a lot of football matches this season. I'm actually a bit more optimistic than I thought I'd be after that defeat.

Cons:

- Defensive issues again, mostly Phil Jones this time. We played much more offensively and pressed more than usual this time, so some of the defensive issues can be combatted with that. If you attack more and press high, you're going to be more susceptible at the back. However, Phil Jones was lucky to not give away a penalty, lost Kane for the opening goal, was out of position for the second goal and then to top it off got injured. Again. I think his time here is done, it was a miserable return to the side for him. He's injured too much and isn't good enough when he's fit. I thought Valencia, Smalling, and Shaw were all very good, bar Smalling getting done at the end by a very good Lucas Moura on the day for their third goal (when let's be honest, it was already over anyway).

- Poor finishing. On another day we probably score more than two goals in the first half alone. Fact is we did not and it has cost us dearly. Lukaku needs to get his shooting boots on quickly or we're not going very far this season. Slight benefit of the doubt as it's early season and he's been thrust into a starting role after a long World Cup and no pre-season with the team. However, if he's not up to speed after the Burnley game then we're in trouble.

- Lack of fitness. Again, I believe if this game came late September or October time, we'd have not lost. It isn't an excuse, just an unfortunate turn of events. Half of our starting XI and a couple of subs had a lack of playing time and most of them due to injury. The former mostly all put in an excellent first 45 minutes and worked hard (bar Jones). Come the second half and conceding the first goal, the tiredness clearly crept in with some players. This can only be fixed with playing more, so we just have to crack on.

I don't think we deserved to lose 0-3, but you don't always get what you deserve in football. I don't think we should be worrying too much just yet, but if we don't beat Burnley then we could be in for a tough season for sure. The problem could be that all of Man City, Liverpool, Spurs, and Chelsea could and probably should very well be on 13-15/15 points come mid-September. We play Burnley and Watford away which sound like tough old games for us. If we don't win at least one of them we could easily be 8-10 points behind all of our main rivals after just five games which would indeed be worrying to say the least. Are we 10 points better than those teams over 33 games? I'm not so sure...

 

[ash_86]

The above graphic shows average positions and look at how many players we had in opposition half. Make no mistake , spurs were pushed back. Much much improvement over Brighton. I would like Lukaku to be even further up and inturn for the defense to be along the midway line.

 

[endless_wheelies]

In that event De Light would be CL cup-tied, so not the greatest time to sign him. Moreover, assuming we're still in the CL at that stage I strongly doubt Spurs would be willing to lose a top-class CB like Toby mid-campaign.

Also, we're not necessarily going to lose him for £25m next summer. For starters he may choose to sign a new contract, and even if he doesn't, even if several clubs bid £25m Toby might not want to go to any of them.

I'd say it all depends on how likely Alderweireld is looking to sign a new contract when January comes around, if he's still adamant on not doing so (he hasn't so far so why would he now?) then the extra £30m for a 6 month loan would be too much. Besides, De Ligt is 19, there's no bad time to sign him in the next 10 years and January might actually be the best time considering the competition for him you'd likely face in summer. You'll still have Vertonghen, Sanchez, Foyth and Dier, with De Ligt filling in during Premier League games so that's hardly a paucity.

 

[Gordon S]

Losing 3-0 at home is of course pretty brutal, and some of the mistakes we made were slapstick comedy, but i really enjoyed our energy and desire to attack. Can't remember the last time we had that drive and desire to go forward. That's what i want to see, makes me look forward to next game.
If we could erase some of the errors and still keep the energy and aggression for Burnley then i think we will win.

 

[Reiver]

I was happy with the approach in the first half. Attitude was good, we pressed more than we usually do and genuinely tried to take the game to them. Maybe a problem was that the players just aren't used to trying to play this way ie on the front foot. I felt entertained and that hasn't happened much recently.
Obviously our finishing was poor, but I felt a big difference was that their CBs were a lot better.

 

[James Peril]

24 hours to calm down... quite happy with the game until that «something» happened. Tottenham didn’t really play well, it was a case of us giving it to them by not scoring first and then just panicing. The last part due to absolutely no confidence in the team... I could feel it coming at the interval. You have to score first against good teams, because if you don’t.... well. I will not say more about Lukaku, this game didn’t show me anything more than I’ve already mentioned (too many times before).

The game could have gone both ways though. Very little has been said about Lucas’ high boot to the face of Jones, he could/should have walked. And what about Kane using too much force to tackle Valencia was it? Incredibly reckless challenge and a clear red when watching live, perhaps not on the replay since he pulled his foot back - so referee got it right most likely. No chance Kane gets a red for a tackle by an English referee though.

Lucas could/should also have had a penalty from Jones, he was ahead and Jones put his weight on him once through for a possible shot. We sure as hell would have called penalty if it happened to Lingard from Dier’s challenge.

Not exactly Mane-ugly, but that high challenge from Lucas and a red would have changed the game completely.

Mourinho should stick to what worked last season. Smalling, Jones and Bailly are good enough defenders, Lindelof clearly isn’t at all. We kept a lot of clean sheets last year and let’s just keep the same people in the team to get them going. No excuse for letting bloody Kane score from a header..

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm not deterred from Zidane, I wouldn't mind him but I absolutely want to keep Mourinho first and foremost. I'm curious as to your reasoning though... you specifically say you don't like Mourinho's short-termism and that we shouldn't go for the next manager just for the allure of their past glories, yet how has Zidane proven himself to be any different?

If you watched much of Real Madrid's Champions League run last season very little of it had to do with genius management, and he very specifically said that his issues with Bale and Ronaldo were big factors in having to leave after just three seasons.

Fair enough if you want us to stick with Mourinho. No problems with anyone holding that view.

As for my reasoning for Zidane, it's pretty clear. I think Mourinho is not up to scratch and should be replaced. Among the potential replacements, Zidane is clearly the most accomplished in recent times and possibly in the prime of his career.

Note that with regards to past glories, it can't be disregarded. Especially when it's not really past past glories but more like yesterday/present glories. Previous success has to be considered as does other factors and his ideas based on the interview we hold.

That's it. Otherwise I have no qualms with us going for Pochettino (someone who develops well) or whoever else is deemed the right fit.

As for Zidane and his management not being the stuff of genius. At the end of the day he's won a league title and 3 CLs. That's an incredible achievement no matter what anyone thinks about one league or relationship with Ronaldo (who Jose also had issues with).

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Someone's noticed how much money the Arsenal Fan TV guys made then bruv

 

[Bastian]

I forgot about it afterwards, but that Kane challenge on Valencia, I actually thought that was a red card offence. If that had been the other way around, with Valencia flying in on Kane's standing leg, potentially leg-breaking challenge, he'd have been off.

Off topic: Why do so many posters think, when they speculate about a United team today under SAF that it would feature Kane? Would Spurs be any likelier to make the most stupid decision they could make just because Fergie was managing us?

 

[MV12]

Just remembering their 1st goal from the corner... Why was there nobody on the front post? If there had of been that was an easy stop!!
In fact does any team put defenders on the posts for corners anymore?

 

[Roons111]

I'd say it all depends on how likely Alderweireld is looking to sign a new contract when January comes around, if he's still adamant on not doing so (he hasn't so far so why would he now?) then the extra £30m for a 6 month loan would be too much. Besides, De Ligt is 19, there's no bad time to sign him in the next 10 years and January might actually be the best time considering the competition for him you'd likely face in summer. You'll still have Vertonghen, Sanchez, Foyth and Dier, with De Ligt filling in during Premier League games so that's hardly a paucity.

No CL Cup tied this year

 

[Bobski]

Erm... have you seen our defence?

They already looked shaky in the first half... the idea that they would stand up well to a Spurs side going on the attack and trying to get back into the game can be easily disputed.

We played okay in the first half and created some half chances, but we were hardly great, and then in the second half we were just poor... so yeah I'd say we were bad overall.

The big difference for me is that Spurs looked organised and we didn't... at all.

Final line is the key. Even playing well in the first half was really about chaotic energy and effort over any true structure. Spurs were rubbish for the first 35 mins as well, for all the portrayals of them as some form of elite team they were allowing some very basic football to cause them a lot of problems.

It was a poor quality half, but at least Utd had a go and committed numbers forward.

 

[Wotspur]

They weren't good as they weren't allowed to be. Football is not as simplistic as you make out.

Lukaku cost United tonight and it's clear there are issues with the CBs but 0-3 flattered Spurs and it could have quite easily been 3-0 United before half time. That's football. Don't try and make it more of a drama than it is.

How could it be 3-0 to Man Utd If / could / should ......apart from Lukakau effort set up by Rose, you didn’t create another major effort on goal , Spurs had two great goal scoring opportunities , well we SHOULD have had a penalty , as agreed with by Neville and CARRAGHER , but for the second home game you’ve got away with no penalty given , And Deli SHOULd have passed thru to HK when we had a 2 on 1 .
In the second half we blew you away with 3 goals , and HK unusually missed a headed sitter ......and yeah Hugo made a reasonable save just after we scored but sorry that’s his job , so let’s be reasonable and say 2-5 could have been more likely

 

[TheReligion]

How could it be 3-0 to Man Utd If / could / should ......apart from Lukakau effort set up by Rose, you didn’t create another major effort on goal , Spurs had two great goal scoring opportunities , well we SHOULD have had a penalty , as agreed with by Neville and CARRAGHER , but for the second home game you’ve got away with no penalty given , And Deli SHOULd have passed thru to HK when we had a 2 on 1 .
In the second half we blew you away with 3 goals , and HK unusually missed a headed sitter ......and yeah Hugo made a reasonable save just after we scored but sorry that’s his job , so let’s be reasonable and say 2-5 could have been more likely

You won the game. Well done.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

How could it be 3-0 to Man Utd If / could / should ......apart from Lukakau effort set up by Rose, you didn’t create another major effort on goal , Spurs had two great goal scoring opportunities , well we SHOULD have had a penalty , as agreed with by Neville and CARRAGHER , but for the second home game you’ve got away with no penalty given , And Deli SHOULd have passed thru to HK when we had a 2 on 1 .
In the second half we blew you away with 3 goals , and HK unusually missed a headed sitter ......and yeah Hugo made a reasonable save just after we scored but sorry that’s his job , so let’s be reasonable and say 2-5 could have been more likely

Random CAPITALS. Loud NOISES.

 

[Liver_bird]

Spurs weren't poor first 30, United's pressing made them look poor however you aren't trained to press so eventually you gassed out and not creating enough chances to score meant you were exposed later on.

It's a theme with United the more you open up the poorer the centre halves look. It's why I've never believed any of them were superior to their counterparts at other clubs, yet if you voiced that opinion on here you'd be met with with a bunch of greens.
None of them are sufficiently comfortable on the ball or in a high line and whilst it's an extremely effective way of defending ( See ours and City's chance prevention stats ) it's also the most difficult.

It's why the likes of Stones and Lovren can come across as error prone sometimes despite being pretty good defenders. It just leaves no margin for error and you're massively exposed defending wide spaces.
Wouldn't be surprised to see you guys revert back to dropping deep again. The defenders just won't be able to handle playing that way.
We were playing a high line with Mignolet Skrtel Lovren at one stage and it was error after error game after game.

Point being you can't put square pegs in round holes.
You play differently than any other top 6 side the majority of the time and that's fine there's more than one way to skin a cat but there's little point changing the system now unless the manager is fully convinced in the plan and the board are prepared to back him.
A sense of direction is needed either way.

 

[haram]

Spurs weren't poor first 30, United's pressing made them look poor however you aren't trained to press so eventually you gassed out and not creating enough chances to score meant you were exposed later on.

It's a theme with United the more you open up the poorer the centre halves look. It's why I've never believed any of them were superior to their counterparts at other clubs, yet if you voiced that opinion on here you'd be met with with a bunch of greens.
None of them are sufficiently comfortable on the ball or in a high line and whilst it's an extremely effective way of defending ( See ours and City's chance prevention stats ) it's also the most difficult.

It's why the likes of Stones and Lovren can come across as error prone sometimes despite being pretty good defenders. It just leaves no margin for error and you're massively exposed defending wide spaces.
Wouldn't be surprised to see you guys revert back to dropping deep again. The defenders just won't be able to handle playing that way.
We were playing a high line with Mignolet Skrtel Lovren at one stage and it was error after error game after game.

Point being you can't put square pegs in round holes.
You play differently than any other top 6 side the majority of the time and that's fine there's more than one way to skin a cat but there's little point changing the system now unless the manager is fully convinced in the plan and the board are prepared to back him.
A sense of direction is needed either way.

People think we can just play a high line and outscore the opposition. Or that the defenders can just be trained to be comfortable higher up the pitch. Or that it doesn’t matter that they are poor on the ball.

 

[Liver_bird]

People think we can just play a high line and outscore the opposition. Or that the defenders can just be trained to be comfortable higher up the pitch. Or that it doesn’t matter that they are poor on the ball.

When Rodgers was sacked we went with Klopp over Ancelotti because the latter said he needed 5 new players for a whole new spine. Klopp said there was enough to work with. Yet almost 3 years later he's put an entirely new spine in place with the obvious caveat being he managed to secure a top 4 place in the meantime.

United have shaped the squad a certain way for years it would take time and patience to switch it round to a different brand of football. Its ludicrous to look at the squad and expect it to play high octane football.
Forcing the manager to do that now would be insane. You can coach players but you can't magically make them posses qualities they don't have.

 

[TheReligion]

Spurs weren't poor first 30, United's pressing made them look poor however you aren't trained to press so eventually you gassed out and not creating enough chances to score meant you were exposed later on.

It's a theme with United the more you open up the poorer the centre halves look. It's why I've never believed any of them were superior to their counterparts at other clubs, yet if you voiced that opinion on here you'd be met with with a bunch of greens.
None of them are sufficiently comfortable on the ball or in a high line and whilst it's an extremely effective way of defending ( See ours and City's chance prevention stats ) it's also the most difficult.

It's why the likes of Stones and Lovren can come across as error prone sometimes despite being pretty good defenders. It just leaves no margin for error and you're massively exposed defending wide spaces.
Wouldn't be surprised to see you guys revert back to dropping deep again. The defenders just won't be able to handle playing that way.
We were playing a high line with Mignolet Skrtel Lovren at one stage and it was error after error game after game.

Point being you can't put square pegs in round holes.
You play differently than any other top 6 side the majority of the time and that's fine there's more than one way to skin a cat but there's little point changing the system now unless the manager is fully convinced in the plan and the board are prepared to back him.
A sense of direction is needed either way.

Yep we pretty much know this hence the desire to buy a centre half in the summer. Lindelof was meant to be the ball playing centre half but unfortunately there's too many defects with other aspects of his game which leave him short in the PL so rightly Mourinho tried to replace him.

This is the main reason I don't particularly blame Mourinho for the issue as he identified it and wanted to fix it. Fact is he's been left with Jones, Smalling and Rojo (who he didn't buy), Bailly as his aggressive ball winner and Lindelof who thus far has failed to be the ball player he wanted.

Pep had the same issue when he came to City which is why he instructed his full backs to come central and collect the ball. Obviously results were mixed but in the meantime his board spent £300+m on two new goalkeepers and five new defenders to suit his style. Klopp decided to smash the world record on a goal keeper and centre half.

Sadly, for whatever reason, we didn't bother.