No fecking chance, Woodward the great big ponce will make us endure this trip for a while yet.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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How many managers have held onto their jobs and then really turned things around at their respective club in comparable situations? Giving Fergie more time is brought up quite a lot but are there many/any more recent examples of giving a manager support through the tough times and things eventually coming good?
Sometimes you just have to accept that things have progressed past a point of fixing, even Mourinho must doubt his ability to turn this situation into a successful one so if both parties know the chances of things turning out positively are slim to none then why prolong the pain? We might pick up acceptable results in the coming games which buys him some more time but anything short of a miraculous upturn in form is going to lead to a drawn out season of frustration and negativity.
Sometimes you just have to accept that things have progressed past a point of fixing, even Mourinho must doubt his ability to turn this situation into a successful one so if both parties know the chances of things turning out positively are slim to none then why prolong the pain? We might pick up acceptable results in the coming games which buys him some more time but anything short of a miraculous upturn in form is going to lead to a drawn out season of frustration and negativity.
How do you feel about the quality of the support that was offered to Mourinho in the summer in terms of recruitment especially in the context of the contract extension he was given just a few months prior?
I think people who think this are simply people who can't see the wood through the trees. Unless Mourinho has suddenly become completely tactically incompetent for the first time in his career then clearly the issue is the discord where some players are no longer fighting for their manager or carrying out his instructions to the letter; even those that say Mourinho is a short-term manager would admit that the short-termism is only due to his alleged abrasiveness than any lack of managerial prowess. Going full Real Madrid and sacking our third manager in 5 years due to player power may be appealing to some, but they should bare in mind that there is only one Real Madrid and even they were hit and miss for a long time. You don't get the most out of a squad by giving them a get out of jail "get the manager sacked" card all the time.
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Kill it. Kill it dead. I don’t want to see this anymore. Finito. Bye bye.
Disappointed the threads have been merged. Why not close the one I created or both of them and start a new one?
The thing is, if anything, you expect a mourinho team to be solid defensively and we look a shambles in that department too this season. We were much more solid defensively last season with the same centre backs. Ok, a better left sided center back would have been nice but you’d at least expect us to stay similarly solid in defense without the signing.
From the transfers to the morale, things are a mess and I think a change is due.
I wouldn’t be hugely confident zidane would improve us lots, but even if just to clear the air, get players back on side and work on a more attacking style then he’s worth a try.
From the transfers to the morale, things are a mess and I think a change is due.
I wouldn’t be hugely confident zidane would improve us lots, but even if just to clear the air, get players back on side and work on a more attacking style then he’s worth a try.
Sarri was available and he seems to love short players.Is there any manager available right now who is a fan of short players? Whoever it is, we should get him.
I said not yet, but things would have to drastically change. Honestly, I can't see it tho. Sack now is too much tho.
The context of the full quote was the response to a question asked, "why did Sanchez not even make the bench today?" - something along those lines.
Jose responded with: everyone was saying why not play Martial, everyone was saying Sanchez is in bad form so drop him. I've done those things and now you're asking me questions about why Sanchez didn't make the bench?
I've paraphrased but his response was aimed at fickle fans who want to criticise him for every decision he makes, not any of the players.
You're right but it's still an awful response. It's no different from Moyes saying he's playing RVP because people would say he would bench him. It means he's losing focus from the team and is getting more interested in fights with the media. Managers should never respond like they're giving a feck about is being said.
This Castles guy...Wow!!
Now is the time to rally behind our manager not stick the knives in. He's being undermined, in the papers, by his own players by the equalizer Woodward. It's a farce. It makes no sense to get to where we got at the end of last season and then inexplicably pull the rug from under his feet.
He could have got more backing but on the other hand it sounds like his targets were massively over priced and or short term. There are also other ways to improve and develop teams other than spending money and when he is looking for players to replace his own signings it’s not ideal.
His net spend is over 300m since he joined and that is sufficient backing to have produced a better squad and team than we currently have. He has also been paid a fortune in wages and his coachin, motivation and tactics aren’t justifying that.
Given his reputation and availability it was understandable that he was appointed, likewise it is understandable he should go now based on what has happened previously when he finds himself in this scenario. No one can deny he is a winner and no one can deny he is toxic when it stops working and that is what happening now.
As the saying goes, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Half of this squad are not good enough to wear the Utd shirt. Below average players in every area (De Gea) being the only exception. If they sack Mourinho the next manager needs to clear the dross out with Pogba and Sanchez at the top of the list. Our season is already finished.
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Where did you hear that?
Look it’s a few years in. We still need to work on making the squad gel. That takes time. Give Jose a break.
Yup exactly...
At Real Madrid, Ronaldo, Casillas, Pepe and Ramos had bad attitudes which is why he was fired
At Chelsea, Hazard, Fabregas, Diego Costa had bad attitudes which is why he was fired
At United, Pogba, Martial, Bailly, Rashford, Luke Shaw, Schweinsteger, Lindelof, Periera, Fred have bad attitudes.....
Hmmm... you sure it's the attitude of the players???
Just to compare things:
In 2009/10 season we had this team: Van Der Sar, Neville,Evra,Rio,Vidic,Nani,Carrick,Scholes,Giggs,Berbatov,Rooney with Hargraves,Owen,Valencia,Park Ji-sung,Rafael,Fletcher,Welbeck in the squad.
Today we have: De Gea,Valencia,Lindelof,Smalling,Shaw,Pogba,Matic,Fellaini,Mata,Lukaku,Sanchez with Rashford,Martial,Baily,Jones,Fred and co in the squad.
Even though the 2009 team was getting older they would play the current team off the park in every game. This is how far we have fallen in the standars we were just to have not been met for some time and I´m not sure that any of today´s players would have been a part of the 2009 side. The comparison with the other great teams in the last 20 odd years does reflect even worse on the current squad.
In 2009/10 season we had this team: Van Der Sar, Neville,Evra,Rio,Vidic,Nani,Carrick,Scholes,Giggs,Berbatov,Rooney with Hargraves,Owen,Valencia,Park Ji-sung,Rafael,Fletcher,Welbeck in the squad.
Today we have: De Gea,Valencia,Lindelof,Smalling,Shaw,Pogba,Matic,Fellaini,Mata,Lukaku,Sanchez with Rashford,Martial,Baily,Jones,Fred and co in the squad.
Even though the 2009 team was getting older they would play the current team off the park in every game. This is how far we have fallen in the standars we were just to have not been met for some time and I´m not sure that any of today´s players would have been a part of the 2009 side. The comparison with the other great teams in the last 20 odd years does reflect even worse on the current squad.
I don't know why this situation is unclear for some of my fellow united fans.
Let's just put something aside, the whole (our way) thing that the manager is always right and no player can dictate what a manager can do. This isn't our way, this was the SAF Era way, he made it like this because of his continuous success, leadership and charisma.
Back to reality land, here we have a manager who over and over again has proved to us that since his last success in 2010 he has been nothing but a king of theatrics and picking fights when things aren't going his way. Last year it was Mkhitaryan and Shaw, this year its Pogba and Martial. It's simple math really, either you support him and sell Pogba and Martial and wait for him to pick another fight with someone else while he derail our team further, by spending hundreds of millions on players only to ruin their careers and then ship them out again after Mourinho picks fights with them. Or simply give him his release clause (how much is it? 20 millions) which is much cheaper than selling all of our players to buy a whole new squad.
Mourinho spent 40 mil on Mkhitaryan and picked a fight with him, 100 mil on Pogba and picked a fight with him, 30 mil on Bailey and picked a fight with him, 40 mil on Lindelof only to through him under the bus whenever he feels like it. We spent 30 mil on Martial and Mourinho is picking a fight with him whenever he feels like it!
How much money do you want to waste until you finally realize it's a manager's problem??
Do I need to remind you about that sign raised by Chelsea fans that reads (the 3 rats: Hazard, Cesc and Costa)?? Chelsea were smart, they chose wisely, can we do the same please
Let's just put something aside, the whole (our way) thing that the manager is always right and no player can dictate what a manager can do. This isn't our way, this was the SAF Era way, he made it like this because of his continuous success, leadership and charisma.
Back to reality land, here we have a manager who over and over again has proved to us that since his last success in 2010 he has been nothing but a king of theatrics and picking fights when things aren't going his way. Last year it was Mkhitaryan and Shaw, this year its Pogba and Martial. It's simple math really, either you support him and sell Pogba and Martial and wait for him to pick another fight with someone else while he derail our team further, by spending hundreds of millions on players only to ruin their careers and then ship them out again after Mourinho picks fights with them. Or simply give him his release clause (how much is it? 20 millions) which is much cheaper than selling all of our players to buy a whole new squad.
Mourinho spent 40 mil on Mkhitaryan and picked a fight with him, 100 mil on Pogba and picked a fight with him, 30 mil on Bailey and picked a fight with him, 40 mil on Lindelof only to through him under the bus whenever he feels like it. We spent 30 mil on Martial and Mourinho is picking a fight with him whenever he feels like it!
How much money do you want to waste until you finally realize it's a manager's problem??
Do I need to remind you about that sign raised by Chelsea fans that reads (the 3 rats: Hazard, Cesc and Costa)?? Chelsea were smart, they chose wisely, can we do the same please
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He's undermining himself with the shit results and awful performances.
He has been backed to the tune of 100's of millions and I can't think of a single signing he has made which has been effective in actually progressing this club back to the stage that it should be competing on. We may have finished second last year but we were miles away from city in all honesty.
The cracks have been showing, his signing have been rubbish, he's wasted the boards money. Why keep backing his options?
I really question why we triggered that extension at all because he is clearly not here for the long haul and should have left at the end of last season.
Guy is still living in the Lowry Hotel for heavens sake. You don't get much more transient.
This is the height of clutching.
What's your reasoning?
This, a million times. People talk as if the only way forward is signing players. It's not. It's also about improving them individually, drilling them team-wise. Stuff that we just haven't seen.
More signings? Like the Bailly, Lindelof, Lukaku, Pogba or Sanchez ones which miraculously solved everything, or not so much?
That's exactly how I pictured the average hysterical fan to look like.
I wish managers would drop this outdated, self-preserving thinking of 'Player X is loyal to me, so I'll select him over more gifted players every time.'
This is the key things for me, I literally cannot think of an example of a manager ever turning around such a situation. It doesn’t happen, right now they’re simply delaying the inevitable, which is pointless.
It's hardly as if the issues started recently. The player power stuff yes, but the tactical and coaching issues have been around for two years. He just hasn't been able to implement anything positive, and I wanted him out at the end of last season. What's happening with the players right now is probably the same story he's had at Chelsea and Real Madrid. It's more about Mourinho then them.
Anyhow, it's almost as if 'player power' has now become a tool to KEEP Mourinho at a job he should be sacked from. Because even though, in football terms, he should go because he's done badly, we should actually keep him or we'd be sending the wrong signal...
A narcissist like Jose will value loyalty above anything. It's just part of their DNA. Just read about Mourinho, Essien and the Real squad.
Totally pointless to persist with Mourinho, he has to go or we are going to become a laughing stock.
McTominay in a back 3!!! Is he joking?
McTominay in a back 3!!! Is he joking?
Mourinho has to face the same facts as any manger of any business today. If you are not able to get your message across, lead by example, create a working enviroment where people feel well and have a clear vision that you can implement then you are getting nowhere. The guy behaves like he´s in one of the worst jobs there is and not getting enough support. He has signed the following players and you could make a strong case for few of them having delivered:
Pogba
Lukaku
Fred
Matic
Mkhitaryan
Bailly
Lindelof
Dalot
Grant
Sanchez
I support Man Utd and will continue to do so but Mourinho is not and has never been the right option for Man Utd. I would also blame him for not getting rid of players like Mata,Fellaini,Jones,Rojo,Young,Valencia,Darmian and others that are not just up to Man Utd standards. Mourinho gets paid very well for the responsibility of being Man Utd boss but blames everybody else than himself for what´s happening. The simple fact of the matter is Mourinho is not good enough and has failed as a leader on all accounts at Man Utd. A true leader leads by example and does not behave like a spoilt brat blaming everything but himself.
Pogba
Lukaku
Fred
Matic
Mkhitaryan
Bailly
Lindelof
Dalot
Grant
Sanchez
I support Man Utd and will continue to do so but Mourinho is not and has never been the right option for Man Utd. I would also blame him for not getting rid of players like Mata,Fellaini,Jones,Rojo,Young,Valencia,Darmian and others that are not just up to Man Utd standards. Mourinho gets paid very well for the responsibility of being Man Utd boss but blames everybody else than himself for what´s happening. The simple fact of the matter is Mourinho is not good enough and has failed as a leader on all accounts at Man Utd. A true leader leads by example and does not behave like a spoilt brat blaming everything but himself.
Another reason he should go: I can't remember the last time I watched match of the day!
A new direction is needed, I just fear getting rid of Mourinho and appointing a new manager will not fix this club. We're more similar to an American sports franchise than anything else nowadays.
One of the most successful managers in the history of the game and we can't make it work? We can't back him to the fullest. Honestly if we get rid of him, then we almost deserve to fail. I stand by my belief that we either commit to a manager fully or sack him. No half arsed shit that encourages harmful rumours, unsettles the dressing room. Order needs to be restored but it seems Ed is hell bent on making our club a laughing stock.
Good points. I do think Jose has made a rod for his own back in many respects but when Fergie retired, I was praying we'd get him to take over. United seems to be a bit of a manager's graveyard since 2013.
These are Mourinho signings and you could say that perhaps 1 of them has done well enough, does this speak well about his judgement?
Pogba
Lukaku
Fred
Matic
Mkhitaryan
Bailly
Lindelof
Dalot
Grant
Sanchez
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