That's a bit disingenuous really. We all knew the script with Zlatan and he got a bad injury. Mkhitaryan was swapped for a better player. They're not really comparable.
The REAL reason we are failing
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He's bought 11.
It's not disingenuous, it's literally what happened. It would be disingenuous to post what you just did because Zlatan being scripted make it worse, it means that the club knew that the investment would have to be repeated soon, Mkhitaryan has been swapped but we added a big sigining on fee and wage and Bailly is no different to any other underwhelming signings City made.
And bear in mind that I'm not criticizing anyone for signing these players or replacing them, I didn't at the time and I won't now but it's dishonest to pretend that the club wouldn't spend more money in 2017 if the 2016 transfer window wasn't good, that's exactly what they did, they spent more money.
Yes, it happened the following season, but you kinda missed my point to an extent.
Lets take a deep breath and if we say after SAF we are in the position City was when the Arabs bought them , summer of 2008 , lets see this :
City's club titles from summer 2008 till now
18/19
English Supercup Winner
17/18
English League Cup winner
17/18
English Champion
15/16
English League Cup winner
13/14
English Champion
13/14
English League Cup winner
12/13
English Supercup Winner
11/12
English Champion
10/11
FA Cup Winner
So , their first comes after 3 years , the FA Cup and the real one , Champions , come after 4 years of investing , after they have spent 500 million GBP .
After spending 200 million GBP more for 2 years , come their net title , but the 3rd one comes after 4 years , after spending some new 750 million GBP .
So , for 10 years , he has spent almost 1.5 billion GBP , more than 500 million GBP more than us , giving probably a better average wage also and we are discussing how yesterday happened ?
Well , 10 years of brutal investing gave them a deep quality bench , young players , experienced players and a top coach - a transition through which we are also going on , because after THE MAN , it is a new beginning for us .
Jose and the players has just started clicking , please , do not ruin this and make us wait for a miracle with someone new .
Give him also another year at least , if he manages a European title or CL spot through the League and lets see next year how it goes , with a fresh Pogba , matured Martial and some other guys who went through a WC summer .
City's club titles from summer 2008 till now
18/19
17/18
17/18
15/16
13/14
13/14
12/13
11/12
10/11
So , their first comes after 3 years , the FA Cup and the real one , Champions , come after 4 years of investing , after they have spent 500 million GBP .
After spending 200 million GBP more for 2 years , come their net title , but the 3rd one comes after 4 years , after spending some new 750 million GBP .
So , for 10 years , he has spent almost 1.5 billion GBP , more than 500 million GBP more than us , giving probably a better average wage also and we are discussing how yesterday happened ?
Well , 10 years of brutal investing gave them a deep quality bench , young players , experienced players and a top coach - a transition through which we are also going on , because after THE MAN , it is a new beginning for us .
Jose and the players has just started clicking , please , do not ruin this and make us wait for a miracle with someone new .
Give him also another year at least , if he manages a European title or CL spot through the League and lets see next year how it goes , with a fresh Pogba , matured Martial and some other guys who went through a WC summer .
The city fans encapsulated us perfectly yesterday with their chant
“Just like the scousers, you’re stuck in the past”
“Just like the scousers, you’re stuck in the past”
There’s a difference in “spend (more) money” and “spend more money on the same positions we spent last season cause those players turned out shit so those players will sit in the stand while we splash another 50 million”.
The fans have been behind Jose. Had the play been at Chelsea's level and maintaining top 4, I think the fans and players would be optimistic. Since Dec/Jan it's been awful.
Truth is the manager appointments have been wrong and the wrong timing. We never planned properly before Fergie went and haven't done since. When LVG came he was surprised how lacking we were for a big club, he wasn't the right man but his appraisal was honest and correct.
The people who own Chelsea, City, PSG got people in who know football to run things. We've appointed wrong managers who've brought in the wrong players.
The club should've taken stock after Moyes and sought help and looked around them. The biggest club had big hole to fill when Fergie went. It's quite shocking how bumbling we've been and still are.
Truth is the manager appointments have been wrong and the wrong timing. We never planned properly before Fergie went and haven't done since. When LVG came he was surprised how lacking we were for a big club, he wasn't the right man but his appraisal was honest and correct.
The people who own Chelsea, City, PSG got people in who know football to run things. We've appointed wrong managers who've brought in the wrong players.
The club should've taken stock after Moyes and sought help and looked around them. The biggest club had big hole to fill when Fergie went. It's quite shocking how bumbling we've been and still are.
That still wouldn’t have been enough to win the league last season and it wouldn’t be enough for this season.
Under SAF we only hit the 90 points tally once, and 91 once. The two highest tallies of SAF’s tenure at United.
Not even SAF with unlimited funds could beat this City team to the tally.
We spent on the same positions, literally, Lukaku, Lindelof and Sanchez.
New to the forums lads so take it easy on me. The reason I fell in love with united is because of the way united traditionally played football. The favourite part of my week was when united would play, watching great players but great players allowed to play football and who had passion and heart for the club.
The last couple of seasons, we've been difficult to watch. Constantly being defensive without having good defenders, the united way seems to have disappeared I'm struggling even to watch games because of the frustration of seeing what we've become.
Mourinho just isn't the right fit for united, his style is never going to change. Mourinho will only work if you give him an open cheque book and sign the players he wants to sign. Not only is he not the right fit our board and owners are lacking any football intelligence. Woodward shouldn't be anywhere near any footballing decisions. Our transfer policy is a shambles, we hold onto players who aren't good enough for far too long. If any of our rivals had Smalling, Young, Jones, Valencia as starters for this long a period we'd be laughing !
I think our situation now is even worse than when van gaal was over the team. At least for all his faults we could keep possession and he gave some youth players a chance. Plus he had a knack of getting result against our rivals.
In my opinion we've gone backwards since Mourinho took over. I can't see him turning it around he’s too stubborn to change his ways, that was proven yesterday. Yesterday was painful but its going to become the norm if we don't do something now but our board don't have the balls or the intelligence to make it happen.
Losing to city is always tough but we didn't even have a go, we didn't make a tackle, we didn't even have a shot. I don't call smallings header a shot. City are a good side but surely with the money spent we can be better than that. Its time to be brave and take a chance on a young manager who will try to play football. Give us fans something to be proud of again and scare opposing teams when they see that red wave of attacks coming!
The last couple of seasons, we've been difficult to watch. Constantly being defensive without having good defenders, the united way seems to have disappeared I'm struggling even to watch games because of the frustration of seeing what we've become.
Mourinho just isn't the right fit for united, his style is never going to change. Mourinho will only work if you give him an open cheque book and sign the players he wants to sign. Not only is he not the right fit our board and owners are lacking any football intelligence. Woodward shouldn't be anywhere near any footballing decisions. Our transfer policy is a shambles, we hold onto players who aren't good enough for far too long. If any of our rivals had Smalling, Young, Jones, Valencia as starters for this long a period we'd be laughing !
I think our situation now is even worse than when van gaal was over the team. At least for all his faults we could keep possession and he gave some youth players a chance. Plus he had a knack of getting result against our rivals.
In my opinion we've gone backwards since Mourinho took over. I can't see him turning it around he’s too stubborn to change his ways, that was proven yesterday. Yesterday was painful but its going to become the norm if we don't do something now but our board don't have the balls or the intelligence to make it happen.
Losing to city is always tough but we didn't even have a go, we didn't make a tackle, we didn't even have a shot. I don't call smallings header a shot. City are a good side but surely with the money spent we can be better than that. Its time to be brave and take a chance on a young manager who will try to play football. Give us fans something to be proud of again and scare opposing teams when they see that red wave of attacks coming!
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You don’t really get it. There’s no point dragging this further.
But you don't tell me your point even though I admit that maybe I wasn't getting it. Instead you say things that aren't accurate.
I guess it boils down to this. You can spend a shedload and buy the absolute best players and win stuff.
Or you can spend a smaller shedload (a wheelbarrow?) and buy good players and make them better individually and as a team.
To do the former you need loads of money. Like City. Like Madrid. You won't make a profit but you will win a lot.
To do the latter you need a really strong club identity, a really strong ethos of what the club is about, a really brilliant coaching staff who can execute said strategy. Like with Spurs and Liverpool currently. Like with Arsenal in their prime. Like SAF. You will win a lot (until you run into a club like City.)
You can even be both, like Barcelona at their best.
Or you can be not sure which one you are and have the worst failings of both without any of the good bits. That's pretty much where we are right now. The owners need to decide if we are a Madrid - in which case we have the right manager but the wrong players - or a Spurs, in which case we have the wrong manager AND the wrong players.
Or you can spend a smaller shedload (a wheelbarrow?) and buy good players and make them better individually and as a team.
To do the former you need loads of money. Like City. Like Madrid. You won't make a profit but you will win a lot.
To do the latter you need a really strong club identity, a really strong ethos of what the club is about, a really brilliant coaching staff who can execute said strategy. Like with Spurs and Liverpool currently. Like with Arsenal in their prime. Like SAF. You will win a lot (until you run into a club like City.)
You can even be both, like Barcelona at their best.
Or you can be not sure which one you are and have the worst failings of both without any of the good bits. That's pretty much where we are right now. The owners need to decide if we are a Madrid - in which case we have the right manager but the wrong players - or a Spurs, in which case we have the wrong manager AND the wrong players.
The OP is right. Since SAF (and to be fair during as well, 2003-2006 and then nearly every year post 2008) United has been analysed and criticised and questioned, far more than other clubs. Held up to higher standards than other clubs. Compared to classic period SAF when it suits them, compared to last season when it suits them. Basically, "Can you get me a stat where United look sh*t?". I'm not denying how poor things have been at points, but the point is the pressure and questioning. The ramping up of pressure and chipping away at the club. Ex-Reds in the media speaking, as I'm sure they see it, honestly about United all adds to the questioning this, questioning that atmosphere.
Even in seasons where the league champions mount terrible defences (e.g. Chelsea last season) that's never what the focus is. The focus is on us. It's the big story. Does this stuff filter through to fans and/or "fans"? Yes it does. Is "the United way" something we'll never quite attain? I'm thinking back to games, even runs of games under SAF that weren't what you'd call "the united way". The difference was belief in the manager, and patience. We'd generally come around back to winning ways.
Even in seasons where the league champions mount terrible defences (e.g. Chelsea last season) that's never what the focus is. The focus is on us. It's the big story. Does this stuff filter through to fans and/or "fans"? Yes it does. Is "the United way" something we'll never quite attain? I'm thinking back to games, even runs of games under SAF that weren't what you'd call "the united way". The difference was belief in the manager, and patience. We'd generally come around back to winning ways.
We don't score from open play. We just don't.
Out of curiosity, which do you think is the difference between the SAF and Mourinho eras regarding the next topics:
- Manager's skills as compared to rivals.
- Potential of the squad as compared to rivals.
- Financial muscle as compared to rivals.
- Manager's skills as compared to rivals.
- Potential of the squad as compared to rivals.
- Financial muscle as compared to rivals.
Really f's me off you call the City manager Pep. Yet you call the greatest manager in history Ferguson and you are supposed to be a Utd fan, its disgusting.
It's on the manager. He was one of the very best around but not any more.
Many on here think that Jose must still be among the very best because that was true several years ago. However, football has changed a lot over the last 5-6 years and Jose's methods do not work as well as they did few years ago. In particular, this team does not work hard enough and allows average teams to have a go and fancy their chances.
Benitez was a top top manager a decade ago. Not any more. Sometimes things change quickly.
Many on here think that Jose must still be among the very best because that was true several years ago. However, football has changed a lot over the last 5-6 years and Jose's methods do not work as well as they did few years ago. In particular, this team does not work hard enough and allows average teams to have a go and fancy their chances.
Benitez was a top top manager a decade ago. Not any more. Sometimes things change quickly.
One word, Jose.
He is being paid a fortune to get this team to winning ways and winning silverware. 3 years in and still watching the same rubbish, he has changed nothing even after spending £400 mil. Chelsea have had 2 managers in the same time period and both got the team flying after a couple of months. With the first manager they won the PL and a FA Cup at a time when he was going to get sacked. Now with the new manager, title contenders again and they haven't come close to the spending Jose has done let alone the money spent by LvG and Moyes.
Arsenal were in a similar situation the last few years under Wenger, got in a new manager and look a different team within a few months, Jose has been here 3 years and still we have no game plan or style of playing, Jose doesn't even know who his best 11 are. Unbelievable he is still in a job, if he was at one of the mid-table teams in the PL he would've been sacked ages ago.
A manager makes and breaks teams, RM are a very good example of that, with the same group of players one manager can hardly win a match and another wins the CL 3x in a row.
He is being paid a fortune to get this team to winning ways and winning silverware. 3 years in and still watching the same rubbish, he has changed nothing even after spending £400 mil. Chelsea have had 2 managers in the same time period and both got the team flying after a couple of months. With the first manager they won the PL and a FA Cup at a time when he was going to get sacked. Now with the new manager, title contenders again and they haven't come close to the spending Jose has done let alone the money spent by LvG and Moyes.
Arsenal were in a similar situation the last few years under Wenger, got in a new manager and look a different team within a few months, Jose has been here 3 years and still we have no game plan or style of playing, Jose doesn't even know who his best 11 are. Unbelievable he is still in a job, if he was at one of the mid-table teams in the PL he would've been sacked ages ago.
A manager makes and breaks teams, RM are a very good example of that, with the same group of players one manager can hardly win a match and another wins the CL 3x in a row.
I think this is really key, tbh. I know a lot of people cling to the romanticism of the past and wish for a version of United to exist that promotes youth and stands by it's (successful) manager. The club is showing that it is facing a fundamental existential question about its nature going forward and seems unable to pick its path.
Personally, I would much rather follow the Madrid model than the Spurs one. In fact, I'd welcome it. I got into Man Utd in '91, just lucky enough to follow them through all that period when they won everything. I'm too used to it now to change, I want them to win and I want them to win all the time.
I want this club to take on Pep's City side while he's there and overhaul them, beat them at their own game. It doesn't necessarily have to be in the exact style of Pep, but it's gotta be hyper-fast, run'n'gun-style tactics that make fans and neutrals sit up and take note.
The club is in dire need of a re-branding tbh. Not just on the pitch, but overall. It's seen as an out-of-touch dinosaur, a relic of the past. Worse, it's seen as entirely the success of one man who, now that he's gone, is no longer relevant. I always enjoyed learning about the Showtime era of the LA Lakers in the 80's when they played an exciting style and simultaneously made themselves the most fashionable team in the game. Man Utd need some of that thinking, and Ed Woodward is not the man to do it.
Whole new squad, whole new coaches, whole new infrastructure, whole new executive. Root and branch reform of the entire organisation is the best outcome. New owners too, while we're at it. Ambitious ones, who won't lie down and let other teams take their place. It'll be costly, likely take multi-billions. But the future's up for grabs, and these idiots currently in charge can't see it while they're scrabbling around looking for noodle sponsors and instagram likes. Small-time, that's what they are.
Manchester United is the most famous football team in the world, it's time they started acting like it. They need leadership that demands more titles, more Champions Leagues (three is way too little, should be double-digits tbh), more everything.
It's the manager, the same way he was in his last season at Chelsea, the same way COnte was last season, Wenger at Arsenal and so on.
There are two options moving forward:
-> sack him now, get a new manager and prepare for next season => smaller chance of top 4
-> keep him until the end and hire a new manager in the summer = > higher chance of top 4
There are two options moving forward:
-> sack him now, get a new manager and prepare for next season => smaller chance of top 4
-> keep him until the end and hire a new manager in the summer = > higher chance of top 4
Reasons we're failing.
- Poor manager - He's not got the ability to play the game as it is being played right now, he struggles to counter it at it's best either.
- Poor squad - Missing a real RW and RB, plenty of players who will only move onto mid-table clubs like Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Darmain, Valencia, Young, Fellaini. No real balance in the squad either, too many CB's, Fred, Herrera and Periera apparently play the same position, but none of them is setting the world alight (albeit the Brazilians haven't been give the chance). We don't know if Martial/Rashford/Sanchez all play LW or as strikers.
- No real path from youth system into the first team. This used to be the league cup, but we get knocked out of that early. Players go out on loan, but do we look for clubs who play the same way as us? Step up between under 23 league and first team is huge.
- No cohesion between youth team tactics and first team tactics. We don't seem to have a footballing identity that all levels can train into and follow. The first team are pragatic and reactive, the youth teams seem to play free flowing attacking football.
- No DoF to address these issues.
- Woodward thinks he can do everything Fergie did at the club, he should stick to the money side and appoint a dof for the footballing side.
We won the league consistently under Ferguson because we spent the most money
Blackburn won the league in 95/96 because they spent the most money
Chelsea became a force in 2004 because they spent the most money
City are now the dominant force because they spend the most money
Analysis over
Blackburn won the league in 95/96 because they spent the most money
Chelsea became a force in 2004 because they spent the most money
City are now the dominant force because they spend the most money
Analysis over
Why? Im serious. I dont get it. Saying Pep is more disrespectful than saying Ferguson.
Are you familiar with the Board of Directors?
https://ir.manutd.com/corporate-governance/board-of-directors.aspx
A wealth of football knowledge for sure.
This latter is what all top clubs do now. City, Liverpool and Barcelona in the past always "spend more money on the same positions we spent last season cause those players turned out shit so those players will sit in the stand while we splash another 50 million".
This is what it takes now to get to the top.
Laughable now that there are still people hoping that all that ails us is one guy and there will be a quick fix for us to become champions. Neither of of your "modern managers" like Klopp and Poch are coming close to touch City. Clearly, the manager only has a small role to play to get us back up to the top. If anything, Mourinho got us closest there with his second place finish that we failed to capitalise on because of poor leadership of the club.
Nobody calls Sir Alex “Ferguson” to be fair.
ONE simple trick to find out why we're failing - what journalists DON'T want you to know.
Football directors HATE this! Click on this thread to read more.
Football directors HATE this! Click on this thread to read more.
I think it’s that we need to support Jose on Redcafe, because the negative comments on here is what’s stopping us from winning the league. And expecting the team to score goals and win most weeks, aka “the United way”, is holding us back. Apparently if we stop expecting it, it’ll happen somehow. I was a little vague on how that part worked.
The real reason?
Young herrera fellaini smailing valencia jones rashford lukaku lingard bailly lindelof are midtable quality players. Theyre bought from midtable teams for midtable price. Hell some of them arent even midtable qualities when we bought them.
When half your squad is midtable qualities you finish midtable. A good manager can push abit more and create a sum better than the parts. But theyre not magician
We scream at jose, ed, glazer while neglecting the very obvious, our squad are midtable.
No top 4 would want our players bar pogba and de gea, martial would get into 2 out of top 4 teams at best. The rest are bench materials at top 4.
Now why do you expect differently?
Young herrera fellaini smailing valencia jones rashford lukaku lingard bailly lindelof are midtable quality players. Theyre bought from midtable teams for midtable price. Hell some of them arent even midtable qualities when we bought them.
When half your squad is midtable qualities you finish midtable. A good manager can push abit more and create a sum better than the parts. But theyre not magician
We scream at jose, ed, glazer while neglecting the very obvious, our squad are midtable.
No top 4 would want our players bar pogba and de gea, martial would get into 2 out of top 4 teams at best. The rest are bench materials at top 4.
Now why do you expect differently?
Imagine honestly still thinking "next year is our year!" in regards to Jose 
if it was going to work for us under him, it would have by now. Look we did well last season under the circumstances, and if we'd not been facing one of the best PL teams of all time we may have even won the league, but that was the peak.
if it was going to work for us under him, it would have by now. Look we did well last season under the circumstances, and if we'd not been facing one of the best PL teams of all time we may have even won the league, but that was the peak.None of these players have been bought for midtable prices, which is probably a bigger issue.
I agree this is at the heart of many things, we are in a post SAF depression.
This is exactly what happened after Sir Matt Busby finished as manager, we even brought him back for a while, but it didn't help. There was no succession planning, then and there has been none this time, at least anything fans might discern as such! Everything then kept getting deferred back to Busby, "he didn't do it that way, or we are not following Busby traditions" etc. From the Wilf McGuiness episode, to the Frank O'Farrell, Dave Sexton regimes, we tried everything. The last straw was when we went down to the second division, (with Tommy Docherty) then people woke up, the Busby days were over, but it still took nearly a decade until we found the right manager in Alex Ferguson.
Something tells me City have already decided who will replace Pep in 2022/23 and they are probably shadowing that man right now! We have a lot of catching-up to do on and off the pitch. No manager can succeed unless he carries the clubs trust, on and off the pitch and on the terraces and as you have pointed out, his philosophy holds sway over everything... we are along way off that state of affairs, in my opinion!
There are so many aspects we can point to right now. Vision, strategy, spending, breaking it all down and scrutinising every aspect and comparing us to City, Liverpool or whoever.
The main job of any manager is to get the best out of the resources at his disposal. That is the most pressing issue at the moment. Having no clear vision at board level doesn't explain why we struggling to string 5 passes together.
The main job of any manager is to get the best out of the resources at his disposal. That is the most pressing issue at the moment. Having no clear vision at board level doesn't explain why we struggling to string 5 passes together.
My opinion, if we want to win things with City in the same league, we must stop doing this "family club" stuff. I am sorry, it sounds ruthless and cold and "not united way" and i know that i will sound like some plastic fan but sentiments in football clubs that have highest goals, are not allowed anymore. I am not happy with that but it is reality.
We offer new contracts to aging players because they were good club's servants. We don't want to sell English or academy players who are not good enough because "United is proud on home-grown core".
We want to win titles, right? So lets look how other giant clubs do that. Barca, Real, Bayern, City( they are not big club but today they are in every our thread so why not), Inter, Chelsea etc...
When player is in decline they sell him. Academy players? They don't have that. They give you a chance, if you are not good enough, they sell you, loan you or you become part time player.
What we do? We are giving new contracts( huge contracts) to Young and Valencia who are not good enough anymore. We wait 7 years to see are Jones and Smalling good enough. We give chance after chance after chance to Lingard and Rashford because they are local lads.
We (and by we i mean club and fans) must decide what is our goal. If our goal is to win titles then quality must be only important for team selection. Young, old, club legend, local, English, French.. not important.
But if we want to keep our tradition, i have no problem with that. But then we all must accept that battle for top4 is our reality. City sold Sancho. They sold Ihenacho. Foden is rarely playing. They sold aging players who won them titles. They were just ruthless.
We offer new contracts to aging players because they were good club's servants. We don't want to sell English or academy players who are not good enough because "United is proud on home-grown core".
We want to win titles, right? So lets look how other giant clubs do that. Barca, Real, Bayern, City( they are not big club but today they are in every our thread so why not), Inter, Chelsea etc...
When player is in decline they sell him. Academy players? They don't have that. They give you a chance, if you are not good enough, they sell you, loan you or you become part time player.
What we do? We are giving new contracts( huge contracts) to Young and Valencia who are not good enough anymore. We wait 7 years to see are Jones and Smalling good enough. We give chance after chance after chance to Lingard and Rashford because they are local lads.
We (and by we i mean club and fans) must decide what is our goal. If our goal is to win titles then quality must be only important for team selection. Young, old, club legend, local, English, French.. not important.
But if we want to keep our tradition, i have no problem with that. But then we all must accept that battle for top4 is our reality. City sold Sancho. They sold Ihenacho. Foden is rarely playing. They sold aging players who won them titles. They were just ruthless.
Several things can be true at once:
- Mourinho is an all-time great manager;
- Mourinho historically has a short shelf-life and doesn't seem to have a plan or the belief of the players;
- Any system that works, meaning wins, will be accepted by the Board and the fans (the "Man Utd way" is a distraction);
- The problems are complex and we will need an intelligent plan and strong leader (manager) to bring us through;
- A leader by definition gets people to believe in him/her and to follow - Mourinho, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to be doing that;
- We appear to be stuck with Woodward so bitching about him doesn't provide any kind of solution (and he has shown he will spend money if the manager isn't showing desperation);
- Any new leader (manager) will need support around him.
I'm not sure any of those points are really arguable and they lead to three conclusions:
- The club needs a strategic roadmap that will be modified year-by-year but at least tells us where we are going;
- The club needs a team in place to support the manager, particularly on recruitment and player development;
- The club needs a new manager because the club needs belief.
- Mourinho is an all-time great manager;
- Mourinho historically has a short shelf-life and doesn't seem to have a plan or the belief of the players;
- Any system that works, meaning wins, will be accepted by the Board and the fans (the "Man Utd way" is a distraction);
- The problems are complex and we will need an intelligent plan and strong leader (manager) to bring us through;
- A leader by definition gets people to believe in him/her and to follow - Mourinho, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to be doing that;
- We appear to be stuck with Woodward so bitching about him doesn't provide any kind of solution (and he has shown he will spend money if the manager isn't showing desperation);
- Any new leader (manager) will need support around him.
I'm not sure any of those points are really arguable and they lead to three conclusions:
- The club needs a strategic roadmap that will be modified year-by-year but at least tells us where we are going;
- The club needs a team in place to support the manager, particularly on recruitment and player development;
- The club needs a new manager because the club needs belief.
This has been a refreshing thread. Rather than just argue back and forth about whether or not it's all Jose or eds fault there's been some good discussion here.
The key question absolutely is about how over recent seasons we cannot beat the likes of West Ham, Huddersfield, Brighton, Newcastle, Swansea, Burnley etc 95% of the time. Tough games that can go either way versus the top teams is fine, but losing so many silly points against teams who have little more than being up for it is, frankly, baffling.
Six of the seven points we are off the top four were against Brighton and west ham. Not only this but the defeats weren't due to lucky deflected goals and heroic defending of that one goal lead. We've handed most of these teams a 2 goal lead after basically not coming out of the changing rooms.
This is what needs fixing, by whatever means possible.
The key question absolutely is about how over recent seasons we cannot beat the likes of West Ham, Huddersfield, Brighton, Newcastle, Swansea, Burnley etc 95% of the time. Tough games that can go either way versus the top teams is fine, but losing so many silly points against teams who have little more than being up for it is, frankly, baffling.
Six of the seven points we are off the top four were against Brighton and west ham. Not only this but the defeats weren't due to lucky deflected goals and heroic defending of that one goal lead. We've handed most of these teams a 2 goal lead after basically not coming out of the changing rooms.
This is what needs fixing, by whatever means possible.
You are right in terms of consistency, but I think you are targeting the wrong area. Its a simple thing. If you have a first 11 of players that cannot be relied on and can therefore not become consistent starters you will not win a league. Even in the best rotated squads, the teams usually have 7 consistent regular performers that can be relied on to produce generally good performances, they may not be world class, but they will are consistent and reliable ( for champions league contention I believe this needs to be 8 or 9 depending one how reliable the depth is). If we take this into account, again not world class, but reliable. It's obvious to see where we are lacking. De Gea, Pogba, Matic Sanchez and Lukaku are the only players we have that have ever shown consistent reliability in the past for us or another team. Shaw, Martial, Dalot and Fred are players that seem to have the potential to be reliable but have either not shown it or have not been given the opportunity. Out of these small group of players in the squad, only De Gea and Pogba are in consistent form ( Martial is in form but I cannot call him a reliable performer just yet, same with Shaw). No centre backs.
Now compare this to some of our Premier League rivals. Liverpool can count on 7 ( Allison, Gomez, Van Dijk, Milner, Salah, Firmino and Mane). Man City can count on about 10. Chelsea can count on Kepa Azpi Alonso Jorginho Kante Hazard and the right wing slot. We lack quality in very distinct areas of the pitch, in fact in some of these areas we are not even mid table but championship level. So the key to fixing us is to recruit better and plan how the squad is going to play in terms of structure and style. For example, as talented as both Lukaku and Sanchez may be or Sanchez and Martial, it is clear they find it difficult to play in the same side because they like particular roles, or Pogba needing to play in a 3 man midfield which doesnt support Lukaku's need for some form of forward support. We need to think about building a consistent starting 11 filled mostly with players that can be relied on for good performances. That is the difference between being a consistent team and not being one.
Ferguson to me is said by non utd fans. Pep to me should be called Guardiola, we dont endear him to why call him by his first name. We endear Sir Alex thats why we should call him that.