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Mourinho at full time: "Pogba a virus. You don't play. You don't respect players/fans" [Castles]
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Right,he was much worse during Jose's final season
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1. so your slating them for buying superstars?
2. Who doesn't want top 4 and Europe? Being sacked because we dont get that doesnt mean it is the goal, it means it is the absolute bare minimum. As it should be.
3. Which players are these that we have bought young and sold for profit? Like Zaha? or Depay? Like pretty much the majority who are sold at a loss?
4. Whats the resale on Matic? How much will we get for Lukaku? The ridiculous contracts for rooney, now sanchez, where was the value in that?
5 & 6 Not wanting to lose games? im not sure your point, no owners wants to lose games or have to go through prolonged restructuring...
7. i agree with you on that. The philosophy of the club should determine who the manger is, and not be a secondary factor
8. just an emotional argument which simply doesnt stack up with logic.
Right,Hazard was much worse during his final season under Jose...
Beckham was abused for England sending off and laughed at for wearing a sarong (I'm in my late 30s, remember all this very well) - none of what you're saying correlates to my point...
These examples are all 'flashy' guys, and it's barely mentioned about them when compared to a handful of black players, some of whom are just unassuming ordinary lads in the football world!
"Ramos Isn't Flashy"
And that's all fairly conservative for Sergio... If Ramos was black, he'd be called a 'wannabe Rapper / pop star', no doubt.
What on earth has happened to this thread now.
Why? Because I'm right? Matic gets more stick than any player on this forum as far as i can tell. Fellaini too. That's not because of racism is it? So what makes it racist with sterling, depay etc unless they are actually being criticised for being black, which they're not...
Don't you though? Ramos and Ronaldo get slated for nearly every thinkable reason imaginable. Seriously, name me a thing you can use to slate someone and people have used it to slate them. I think there's a very important nuance in this discussion. Some people criticizing Pogba or Sterling, do this because they are racist. However, not everyone criticizing them is doing it because they're racist.
On the subject of Memphis. It stings people to see someone flaunting their wealth while accomplishing feck all on the field. You think the thoroughly white board of directors of a bank that just failed wouldn't get stick for making selfies with their new car?
If Arjen Robben brings out a country single next month wearing a cowboy hat and leather pants he will get a mountain of flak. It's the internet age, if you do something publicly, people will call you a twat. Fecking live with it.
Seen lots of articles about where Dave shops and his personal life. Seen plenty of articles about Rooneys personal life. What's the denominator? They're rich and famous, high profile individuals, who the public have an interest in? Or that they just put themselves out there?
what a mess, my god.
When you're on Piers Morgan's side in a debate about anything - you wanna stop and think it over...
I do feel sorry for him at times because basically every game he gets the ball, looks up and sees 5 static attackers stood in a line. What's he supposed to do half the time?
Conversely he also overplays with alarming regularity and seems to feel the need to prove he can hold off three players because he's frustrated the opposition have the audacity to press him and close him down.
Conversely he also overplays with alarming regularity and seems to feel the need to prove he can hold off three players because he's frustrated the opposition have the audacity to press him and close him down.
Sterling doesn't just get stick because he misses chances, that is the biggest load of bollocks I've seen on here for ages. The media in this country have had it in for him since his Liverpool days, and it's horrific.
Well he deserves world class talent around him at one of the biggest clubs on earth. Messi and Ronaldo have had world class players around them for the most part of their careers. Replace Pogba with say Hazard, Isco or Casemiro, do you think they alone would really shine in this team the way Mourinho has it set up? Im sure they'd love to play alongside Matic, Fellaini and McTominay!
No matter how little some here want to hear it,there's definitely some merit in these sentiments,the language and sheer venom aimed at them and their character for sometimes being human (in terms of being flawed) is appalling and cringe worthy
I think you need to choose your examples more carefully. Ramos, Ronaldo and Beckham received less abuse because they were consistently good players on the pitch. Pogba has been inconsistent, bordering on shocking at times. He also tends to be very active on social media and therefore his off the field activities draws more criticism during patches of bad form. Plenty of white players get criticized off the field. Jones and his pink boots. Fellaini and his recent haircut. Griezmann and his TV interviews regarding his transfers. Rooney was regularly criticized for off the field things, some benign as eating a chocolate bar.
I've also read arguments from people that black players are discriminated against when there is a suggestion they have poor technique or poor attitude. Yet plenty of black players who are praised, are ignored by the same people. Davids is universally excepted as a phenomenal technical player. Viera, Pogba, Thierry Henry all known for their fantastic technique. Ferdinand rated for his passing ability. It seems whenever a black player is criticized as having poor technique, the first impression by some people is to assume this is discriminatory, rather than first observe whether the player does indeed have poor technique.
Now discrimination or stereotyping certainly exists. The chant regarding Lukaku's penis size is a recent example. But the argument needs to be better presented as opposed to suggesting discrimination whenever a black player is criticized.
Very valid point. If you were really good on the pitch, you could talk s**t on your social media and no one would bother.
Jose is a full time virus.
Why is he still here? I doubt any of De Gea, Pogba or Martial are gonna stay here if this vermin is still here. That would be the ultimate tragedy.
Why is he still here? I doubt any of De Gea, Pogba or Martial are gonna stay here if this vermin is still here. That would be the ultimate tragedy.
Yeah and any hint of a mention of racism is viciously attacked.
Pogba is treated in a racist way. If it was a white player doing the exact same things he does (dancing, haircuts, fancy tricks in the game etc) they would get nowhere near the same flack for it.
How much of the criticism is aimed at Matic's character though? None, just his on pitch ability. The criticism of the players mentioned prior always seems to take a more personal tinge than it should. People feel compelled to make definitive judgments about their character for whatever reason
@Reddy Rederson I didn't find anything wrong with your post, sorry for the confusion.
But the quoted is a firm example of the dismissive nature displayed to the racism on this forum.
So, what about the venom and disdain shown to Matic, Fellaini etc? Please explain.
Can’t believe people defending him after that display. Wish someone would post a clip of that instance in the first half where he took 5 touches of the ball, was robbed of it and then just stood there as if it was nothing. Any player can lose possession that’s not the problem, it was just the total lack of effort to get it back. He literally just stood there and made no attempt to rectify his mistake.
Ah yes because comparing a superstar player (Pogba) to bang average and possibly below average (Matic this season) players is valid.
Keep hiding from and ignoring racism whether it's your own or that of others. See how far you get.
If I remember correctly, there was a discussion on caf when Sir Alan Sugar posted something racist and I think most people did think it was racist. Just because a few posters don't think every criticism of black players amounts to racism, doesn't mean the forum is pro-racism in any way.
Rooney was criticized for drinking with mates, attending boxing matches, eating a chocolate bar. Mkhitaryan was regularly criticized as having no desire and poor attitude when playing for United. Shaw was called fat whilst on holiday and people claimed he had a poor attitude. Schweinsteiger was criticized for his trips abroad and there were suggestions it annoyed the dressing room. Several black players get universally praised for off the field things - Evra, Bailly and Ferdinand spring to mind. In the nearly all cases, the opinion of fans regarding Pogba reflects his performances on the pitch and not the colour of his skin.
Sterling has been on top of his form and one of the best players in PL this season. Yet Pep says he wants to see much more from Sterling. Must be racist.
And David Beckham (who is white for those scoring at home) was criticised more than Pogba ever will be for off the field stuff. Ferguson famously dropping him for a match with Leeds at Elland Road due to it.
How has he been working so hard to change his tone about players ? Why would Castles risk losing his connections with Jose and Mendes, of all people, why would a player risk something that could so easily backfire in a big way. Why is it so unlikely that a manager that's infamous for pushing players in front of him, who frequently uses Castles, is behind this, rather than some elaborate scheme which in public has only resulted in one person, being Pogba, looking like a disgraceful player.
What's more likely
I'd agree with you that those who go on about Pogba's haircuts and dancing all the time probably have deep-seated prejudice/bias against black people, but to automatically assume that every criticism directed at Pogba is because of his skin colour is ridiculous.
I mostly read the football section rather than the off topic stuff.
I can see the case being that the overall vibe on the off topic side is a lot more progressive.
I guess its just deep-rooted in football culture itself.
What adversity did he face during the WC?
People see what they want to see generally speaking
For example, you see racism as being prevalent in football, whilst I do not. Interesting how this works.
Interesting indeed when just yesterday Aubameyang had a banana skin thrown at him.
Anyway, while this is an important topic, I think it should go in a thread of its own rather than here.
Let's not use isolated incidents as an indication of the norm.
I hope they catch that Spurs fan and throw the book at him.
Looking forward to the day when both of these cnuts are not here.
Also, and no disrespect meant to you by this, it’s easier to identify an issue when you’re personally affected by it. The same way it would be easier for a gay person to spot covert homophobia, it’s a lot easier for minorities to notice prejudice. Subtleties like tone of voice and choice of words are much easier to pick up on if it’s something you’ve experienced extensively. That’s why I try not to patronise people who disagree on the issue but when people dive in and start calling you a clown and what not it becomes exhausting and ultimately makes it impossible to make positive strides with regards to racism, although I get the impression some would be happy with that.
Baffling to see people willingly wanting us to bin off our most talented outfield players. We need more players like Pogba, not less.
got to say I agree with Jose on this, his attitude is terrible, saying that Jose is the exact same a horrible Virus, would happily see both them out the club ASAP.
Let me guess...you are in fact Paul Pogba. And yes, I have spoken for every United supporter. Maybe you missed the vote. So yes, every supporter holds Pogba in high regards and his bigger expectations for him than our other players. Are you denying this? Besides, moving the goal posts and focusing on my "every supporter" comment is centering in on the wrong part of the argument. Bottom line is I can see where Mourinho is coming from. He expects more from Pogba too. Oh wait, I guess I should say Mourinho "probably" expects more from him or else you are going to come back with a "so now you're in Mourinho's head too" post....ffs
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