The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

Status
Not open for further replies.

KirkDuyt

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
24,660
Location
Dutchland
Supports
Feyenoord
I bet everytime this cnut goes to the toilet he takes of his sun glasses in dramatic fashion and says I'll be back.
 

MTF

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
5,243
Location
New York City
If I follow your argument though you are saying Iran and Syria have it worse because he is even worse than Iran and Syria? I don't see how that is any better to be honest.
This is the same guy that said that if the State Dept budget gets cut, it means he'll need more ammo (as in, he didn't want the State Dept budget cut).

In his role as a commander of forces he acted as is expected of them: he prepared his forces to win conflicts that he expected didn't happen, if only for the fact that his forces were indeed ready to win them (deterrence).
 

swooshboy

Band of Brothers
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
10,744
Location
London
It's not the creating stress part that's worrying to me. The thought of a military leader overseeing thousands of young people going out to kill and be killed not feeling any stress is disturbing. His decisions are life and death decisions, plenty of people have died because of decisions he took. Not feeling any stress about it is incomprehensible to me. I can only rationalize it through a complete lack of morals.
I remember seeing this clip that was about the D-Day Landings. It is less about not stressing about the lives of men, but needing to adopt a mindset that knows that lives will be lost/sacrificed/paid to achieve an objective.

 

Eboue

nasty little twerp with crazy bitter-man opinions
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
61,227
Location
I'm typing this with my Glock 19 two feet from me
You can’t refute it. He’s been a general of the world’s largest military for a long time. Did you expect him to be a saint?
That's true, practically any commander who attains high rank in the american military will have done some horrible things. But unless your response also includes "and that's why we should completely change how and where the american military operates" then it sure seems that you are waving those atrocities away as the cost of doing business.

What I expect is for people to stop pretending that any of these people are good or the adults in the room. People are so desperate to find someone to oppose Trump that they've rehabilitated / ignored people who are at least as bad as he is.

John Kelly was the architect of the family separation policy. Jeff Flake voted with trump near constantly. Ari Fleischer help lie us into the Iraq War. John McCain never met a war he didn't like and happily sang a little jingle about bombing Iran. John Roberts killed the voting rights act. Mueller lied about WMDs, FBI agents routinely tortured people under his command, broke the law to spy on Americans thousands of times, spied on environmental activists and faith-based groups, and lied to congress. Bush Sr is responsible for the highway of death, the racist Willie Horton ad, supported multiple coups in latin america, and sexually assaulted multiple women. Bush Jr has millions of bodies on him, I don't think I need to go into the details. David Frum coined the "Axis Of Evil". Bill Kristol helped start the Iraq War. Steve Schmidt brought Sarah Palin into the national spotlight.


All of these people are horrible people who have caused massive amounts of death and suffering and yet all of them have been embraced in one way or another by liberals including many on here because every once in a while they offer mild criticism of trump.

The people who fall for this stuff time and time again do so because they've failed to develop any substantive critique of politics. They don't oppose Trump because he uses drone strikes to kill anywhere in the world with impunity. Obama did that and he wore a tan suit and shot hoops! They don't oppose Trump for dropping bombs in the Middle East. Bush did that and he gave Michelle Obama a butterscotch! They don't oppose Trump for lying and sexual assault. Clinton did that and he played saxophone on the Arsenio Hall Show! They don't oppose Trump for policies that harm the poorest among us. George HW Bush did that and isn't it inspiring how long he was married to Barbara?

Liberals both here and at large oppose Trump because he is vulgar and uncouth and he eats McDonalds. They don't want to admit that the America they've been brought up hearing about is a lie and always was a lie. They don't want to accept that the imperial presidency is bad, they just want the right person in that spot. They don't want to accept that corporations controlling ever more wealth is bad, they just want to lean in and ride skateboards to their startups making apps that disrupt industries. They don't want to accept that our judicial system is inherently compromised by lying, violent police officers and rat prosectors, they want to read Grisham novels at the airport. They don't want to accept that the military cultivates murderers and sends them around the world to kill brown people, they just want to sing the national anthem at football games.

The one thing we should take from the Trump presidency is that our institutions are irreparably terrible and need to be destroyed. Trump didn't make the intelligence agencies spy or torture, he didn't make congress undemocratic, he didn't make the military a tool of corporations, he didn't make the judicial system corrupt and answerable to money. All of those things were always true, his administration just exposed it.
 

Billy Blaggs

Flacco of the Blaggs tribe
Joined
Nov 6, 2000
Messages
25,831
Location
Accidental founder of Blaggstianity.
That's true, practically any commander who attains high rank in the american military will have done some horrible things. But unless your response also includes "and that's why we should completely change how and where the american military operates" then it sure seems that you are waving those atrocities away as the cost of doing business.

What I expect is for people to stop pretending that any of these people are good or the adults in the room. People are so desperate to find someone to oppose Trump that they've rehabilitated / ignored people who are at least as bad as he is.

John Kelly was the architect of the family separation policy. Jeff Flake voted with trump near constantly. Ari Fleischer help lie us into the Iraq War. John McCain never met a war he didn't like and happily sang a little jingle about bombing Iran. John Roberts killed the voting rights act. Mueller lied about WMDs, FBI agents routinely tortured people under his command, broke the law to spy on Americans thousands of times, spied on environmental activists and faith-based groups, and lied to congress. Bush Sr is responsible for the highway of death, the racist Willie Horton ad, supported multiple coups in latin america, and sexually assaulted multiple women. Bush Jr has millions of bodies on him, I don't think I need to go into the details. David Frum coined the "Axis Of Evil". Bill Kristol helped start the Iraq War. Steve Schmidt brought Sarah Palin into the national spotlight.


All of these people are horrible people who have caused massive amounts of death and suffering and yet all of them have been embraced in one way or another by liberals including many on here because every once in a while they offer mild criticism of trump.

The people who fall for this stuff time and time again do so because they've failed to develop any substantive critique of politics. They don't oppose Trump because he uses drone strikes to kill anywhere in the world with impunity. Obama did that and he wore a tan suit and shot hoops! They don't oppose Trump for dropping bombs in the Middle East. Bush did that and he gave Michelle Obama a butterscotch! They don't oppose Trump for lying and sexual assault. Clinton did that and he played saxophone on the Arsenio Hall Show! They don't oppose Trump for policies that harm the poorest among us. George HW Bush did that and isn't it inspiring how long he was married to Barbara?

Liberals both here and at large oppose Trump because he is vulgar and uncouth and he eats McDonalds. They don't want to admit that the America they've been brought up hearing about is a lie and always was a lie. They don't want to accept that the imperial presidency is bad, they just want the right person in that spot. They don't want to accept that corporations controlling ever more wealth is bad, they just want to lean in and ride skateboards to their startups making apps that disrupt industries. They don't want to accept that our judicial system is inherently compromised by lying, violent police officers and rat prosectors, they want to read Grisham novels at the airport. They don't want to accept that the military cultivates murderers and sends them around the world to kill brown people, they just want to sing the national anthem at football games.

The one thing we should take from the Trump presidency is that our institutions are irreparably terrible and need to be destroyed. Trump didn't make the intelligence agencies spy or torture, he didn't make congress undemocratic, he didn't make the military a tool of corporations, he didn't make the judicial system corrupt and answerable to money. All of those things were always true, his administration just exposed it.
Spot on!
Post of the year contender imo.
 

Abizzz

Full Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
7,644
That's true, practically any commander who attains high rank in the american military will have done some horrible things. But unless your response also includes "and that's why we should completely change how and where the american military operates" then it sure seems that you are waving those atrocities away as the cost of doing business.

What I expect is for people to stop pretending that any of these people are good or the adults in the room. People are so desperate to find someone to oppose Trump that they've rehabilitated / ignored people who are at least as bad as he is.

John Kelly was the architect of the family separation policy. Jeff Flake voted with trump near constantly. Ari Fleischer help lie us into the Iraq War. John McCain never met a war he didn't like and happily sang a little jingle about bombing Iran. John Roberts killed the voting rights act. Mueller lied about WMDs, FBI agents routinely tortured people under his command, broke the law to spy on Americans thousands of times, spied on environmental activists and faith-based groups, and lied to congress. Bush Sr is responsible for the highway of death, the racist Willie Horton ad, supported multiple coups in latin america, and sexually assaulted multiple women. Bush Jr has millions of bodies on him, I don't think I need to go into the details. David Frum coined the "Axis Of Evil". Bill Kristol helped start the Iraq War. Steve Schmidt brought Sarah Palin into the national spotlight.


All of these people are horrible people who have caused massive amounts of death and suffering and yet all of them have been embraced in one way or another by liberals including many on here because every once in a while they offer mild criticism of trump.

The people who fall for this stuff time and time again do so because they've failed to develop any substantive critique of politics. They don't oppose Trump because he uses drone strikes to kill anywhere in the world with impunity. Obama did that and he wore a tan suit and shot hoops! They don't oppose Trump for dropping bombs in the Middle East. Bush did that and he gave Michelle Obama a butterscotch! They don't oppose Trump for lying and sexual assault. Clinton did that and he played saxophone on the Arsenio Hall Show! They don't oppose Trump for policies that harm the poorest among us. George HW Bush did that and isn't it inspiring how long he was married to Barbara?

Liberals both here and at large oppose Trump because he is vulgar and uncouth and he eats McDonalds. They don't want to admit that the America they've been brought up hearing about is a lie and always was a lie. They don't want to accept that the imperial presidency is bad, they just want the right person in that spot. They don't want to accept that corporations controlling ever more wealth is bad, they just want to lean in and ride skateboards to their startups making apps that disrupt industries. They don't want to accept that our judicial system is inherently compromised by lying, violent police officers and rat prosectors, they want to read Grisham novels at the airport. They don't want to accept that the military cultivates murderers and sends them around the world to kill brown people, they just want to sing the national anthem at football games.

The one thing we should take from the Trump presidency is that our institutions are irreparably terrible and need to be destroyed. Trump didn't make the intelligence agencies spy or torture, he didn't make congress undemocratic, he didn't make the military a tool of corporations, he didn't make the judicial system corrupt and answerable to money. All of those things were always true, his administration just exposed it.
Thank you for using your talents to express that so clearly. A lot better than I could have ever done.
 

Abizzz

Full Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
7,644
I remember seeing this clip that was about the D-Day Landings. It is less about not stressing about the lives of men, but needing to adopt a mindset that knows that lives will be lost/sacrificed/paid to achieve an objective.

... He uses the Somme as example for using more and more men to gain an advantage. I'm no military historian, but that must be the worst possible example.

If i'm honest I don't see much more than propaganda there, macho talk to impress. If a military commander can achieve his targets without killing he is a much more valuable commander than one who sends a lot of men to their deaths... The kind of war he describes hasn't been fought since at least Korea anyway.
 

onemanarmy

Full Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Messages
4,716
Location
Belgium
That's true, practically any commander who attains high rank in the american military will have done some horrible things. But unless your response also includes "and that's why we should completely change how and where the american military operates" then it sure seems that you are waving those atrocities away as the cost of doing business.

What I expect is for people to stop pretending that any of these people are good or the adults in the room. People are so desperate to find someone to oppose Trump that they've rehabilitated / ignored people who are at least as bad as he is.

John Kelly was the architect of the family separation policy. Jeff Flake voted with trump near constantly. Ari Fleischer help lie us into the Iraq War. John McCain never met a war he didn't like and happily sang a little jingle about bombing Iran. John Roberts killed the voting rights act. Mueller lied about WMDs, FBI agents routinely tortured people under his command, broke the law to spy on Americans thousands of times, spied on environmental activists and faith-based groups, and lied to congress. Bush Sr is responsible for the highway of death, the racist Willie Horton ad, supported multiple coups in latin america, and sexually assaulted multiple women. Bush Jr has millions of bodies on him, I don't think I need to go into the details. David Frum coined the "Axis Of Evil". Bill Kristol helped start the Iraq War. Steve Schmidt brought Sarah Palin into the national spotlight.


All of these people are horrible people who have caused massive amounts of death and suffering and yet all of them have been embraced in one way or another by liberals including many on here because every once in a while they offer mild criticism of trump.

The people who fall for this stuff time and time again do so because they've failed to develop any substantive critique of politics. They don't oppose Trump because he uses drone strikes to kill anywhere in the world with impunity. Obama did that and he wore a tan suit and shot hoops! They don't oppose Trump for dropping bombs in the Middle East. Bush did that and he gave Michelle Obama a butterscotch! They don't oppose Trump for lying and sexual assault. Clinton did that and he played saxophone on the Arsenio Hall Show! They don't oppose Trump for policies that harm the poorest among us. George HW Bush did that and isn't it inspiring how long he was married to Barbara?

Liberals both here and at large oppose Trump because he is vulgar and uncouth and he eats McDonalds. They don't want to admit that the America they've been brought up hearing about is a lie and always was a lie. They don't want to accept that the imperial presidency is bad, they just want the right person in that spot. They don't want to accept that corporations controlling ever more wealth is bad, they just want to lean in and ride skateboards to their startups making apps that disrupt industries. They don't want to accept that our judicial system is inherently compromised by lying, violent police officers and rat prosectors, they want to read Grisham novels at the airport. They don't want to accept that the military cultivates murderers and sends them around the world to kill brown people, they just want to sing the national anthem at football games.

The one thing we should take from the Trump presidency is that our institutions are irreparably terrible and need to be destroyed. Trump didn't make the intelligence agencies spy or torture, he didn't make congress undemocratic, he didn't make the military a tool of corporations, he didn't make the judicial system corrupt and answerable to money. All of those things were always true, his administration just exposed it.
And on that bombshell...

Excellent post, big "the newsroom" vibe. (I hope you are not insulted by that reference ;) )
 

Sky1981

Fending off the urge
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
30,088
Location
Under the bright neon lights of sincity
The americans record ar wars post world war 2 always ends with them packing their gears with their tails tucked in.

Korea
Vietnam
Iraq
Afghanistan
Syria

They never learn.... all those lives and dollars lost to achieve nothing. I still dont see what they gain from any of the wars above. And i doubt the profit they gain from oil is worth the dollars they spent on the war itself. The chiense gets their oil for the cost of a road here and a plant there.
 

Beachryan

More helpful with spreadsheets than Phurry
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
11,728
That's true, practically any commander who attains high rank in the american military will have done some horrible things. But unless your response also includes "and that's why we should completely change how and where the american military operates" then it sure seems that you are waving those atrocities away as the cost of doing business.

What I expect is for people to stop pretending that any of these people are good or the adults in the room. People are so desperate to find someone to oppose Trump that they've rehabilitated / ignored people who are at least as bad as he is.

John Kelly was the architect of the family separation policy. Jeff Flake voted with trump near constantly. Ari Fleischer help lie us into the Iraq War. John McCain never met a war he didn't like and happily sang a little jingle about bombing Iran. John Roberts killed the voting rights act. Mueller lied about WMDs, FBI agents routinely tortured people under his command, broke the law to spy on Americans thousands of times, spied on environmental activists and faith-based groups, and lied to congress. Bush Sr is responsible for the highway of death, the racist Willie Horton ad, supported multiple coups in latin america, and sexually assaulted multiple women. Bush Jr has millions of bodies on him, I don't think I need to go into the details. David Frum coined the "Axis Of Evil". Bill Kristol helped start the Iraq War. Steve Schmidt brought Sarah Palin into the national spotlight.


All of these people are horrible people who have caused massive amounts of death and suffering and yet all of them have been embraced in one way or another by liberals including many on here because every once in a while they offer mild criticism of trump.

The people who fall for this stuff time and time again do so because they've failed to develop any substantive critique of politics. They don't oppose Trump because he uses drone strikes to kill anywhere in the world with impunity. Obama did that and he wore a tan suit and shot hoops! They don't oppose Trump for dropping bombs in the Middle East. Bush did that and he gave Michelle Obama a butterscotch! They don't oppose Trump for lying and sexual assault. Clinton did that and he played saxophone on the Arsenio Hall Show! They don't oppose Trump for policies that harm the poorest among us. George HW Bush did that and isn't it inspiring how long he was married to Barbara?

Liberals both here and at large oppose Trump because he is vulgar and uncouth and he eats McDonalds. They don't want to admit that the America they've been brought up hearing about is a lie and always was a lie. They don't want to accept that the imperial presidency is bad, they just want the right person in that spot. They don't want to accept that corporations controlling ever more wealth is bad, they just want to lean in and ride skateboards to their startups making apps that disrupt industries. They don't want to accept that our judicial system is inherently compromised by lying, violent police officers and rat prosectors, they want to read Grisham novels at the airport. They don't want to accept that the military cultivates murderers and sends them around the world to kill brown people, they just want to sing the national anthem at football games.

The one thing we should take from the Trump presidency is that our institutions are irreparably terrible and need to be destroyed. Trump didn't make the intelligence agencies spy or torture, he didn't make congress undemocratic, he didn't make the military a tool of corporations, he didn't make the judicial system corrupt and answerable to money. All of those things were always true, his administration just exposed it.
Hard to disagree with any of that, but I've always tried to view a regime in context and with comparison. Is the US military complex morally good? No. Is it a damn bit better than that of other jurisdictions? I believe yes.

The same could be said for US democracy. Obviously it's hugely flawed and ripe for corporate corruption, but I'd take it over a country whose government is currently holding a million citizens of a certain religion in concentration camps.

I hate Trump not just because he's objectively bad, but also because he's relatively bad. I don't believe that because Clinton, or HW are flawed that they are as flawed as Trump.

Anyway, the world sucks but at least we have Ole back :)
 

Kentonio

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
13,188
Location
Stamford Bridge
Supports
Chelsea
Hard to disagree with any of that, but I've always tried to view a regime in context and with comparison. Is the US military complex morally good? No. Is it a damn bit better than that of other jurisdictions? I believe yes.

The same could be said for US democracy. Obviously it's hugely flawed and ripe for corporate corruption, but I'd take it over a country whose government is currently holding a million citizens of a certain religion in concentration camps.

I hate Trump not just because he's objectively bad, but also because he's relatively bad. I don't believe that because Clinton, or HW are flawed that they are as flawed as Trump.

Anyway, the world sucks but at least we have Ole back :)
Why is that the choice though? What about the other western democracies, who UK (and maybe France) aside tend to avoid bombing the shit out of people for the most part. Ironically Germany is probably the best model these days. It’d be nice to say the Scandinavian countries but their tiny populations make the objections obvious.
 

fishfingers15

Contributes to username and tagline changes
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
27,115
Location
YESHHHHH, We'll GOOO for it.
That's true, practically any commander who attains high rank in the american military will have done some horrible things. But unless your response also includes "and that's why we should completely change how and where the american military operates" then it sure seems that you are waving those atrocities away as the cost of doing business.

What I expect is for people to stop pretending that any of these people are good or the adults in the room. People are so desperate to find someone to oppose Trump that they've rehabilitated / ignored people who are at least as bad as he is.

John Kelly was the architect of the family separation policy. Jeff Flake voted with trump near constantly. Ari Fleischer help lie us into the Iraq War. John McCain never met a war he didn't like and happily sang a little jingle about bombing Iran. John Roberts killed the voting rights act. Mueller lied about WMDs, FBI agents routinely tortured people under his command, broke the law to spy on Americans thousands of times, spied on environmental activists and faith-based groups, and lied to congress. Bush Sr is responsible for the highway of death, the racist Willie Horton ad, supported multiple coups in latin america, and sexually assaulted multiple women. Bush Jr has millions of bodies on him, I don't think I need to go into the details. David Frum coined the "Axis Of Evil". Bill Kristol helped start the Iraq War. Steve Schmidt brought Sarah Palin into the national spotlight.


All of these people are horrible people who have caused massive amounts of death and suffering and yet all of them have been embraced in one way or another by liberals including many on here because every once in a while they offer mild criticism of trump.

The people who fall for this stuff time and time again do so because they've failed to develop any substantive critique of politics. They don't oppose Trump because he uses drone strikes to kill anywhere in the world with impunity. Obama did that and he wore a tan suit and shot hoops! They don't oppose Trump for dropping bombs in the Middle East. Bush did that and he gave Michelle Obama a butterscotch! They don't oppose Trump for lying and sexual assault. Clinton did that and he played saxophone on the Arsenio Hall Show! They don't oppose Trump for policies that harm the poorest among us. George HW Bush did that and isn't it inspiring how long he was married to Barbara?

Liberals both here and at large oppose Trump because he is vulgar and uncouth and he eats McDonalds. They don't want to admit that the America they've been brought up hearing about is a lie and always was a lie. They don't want to accept that the imperial presidency is bad, they just want the right person in that spot. They don't want to accept that corporations controlling ever more wealth is bad, they just want to lean in and ride skateboards to their startups making apps that disrupt industries. They don't want to accept that our judicial system is inherently compromised by lying, violent police officers and rat prosectors, they want to read Grisham novels at the airport. They don't want to accept that the military cultivates murderers and sends them around the world to kill brown people, they just want to sing the national anthem at football games.

The one thing we should take from the Trump presidency is that our institutions are irreparably terrible and need to be destroyed. Trump didn't make the intelligence agencies spy or torture, he didn't make congress undemocratic, he didn't make the military a tool of corporations, he didn't make the judicial system corrupt and answerable to money. All of those things were always true, his administration just exposed it.
Never let it be said that I've embraced John McCain or Jeff Flake or any resistance late entrants. They are all terrible people. I'm just not surprised that they act that way with their agenda closely aligned with Trump except the lewdness and bombast associated with Trump.
 

Silva

Full Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
30,756
Location
Smoke crack like Isaac Asimov
I don't believe that because Clinton, or HW are flawed that they are as flawed as Trump.
Clinton didn't pass the three strikes policy without knowledge, HW didn't stumble into south American coups like Mr Bean walking into a door. They didn't accidentally assault women. These people aren't flawed, they know what they're doing and it's nothing to celebrate.
 

Dr. Dwayne

Self proclaimed tagline king.
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
97,658
Location
Nearer my Cas, to thee
The americans record ar wars post world war 2 always ends with them packing their gears with their tails tucked in.

Korea
Vietnam
Iraq
Afghanistan
Syria

They never learn.... all those lives and dollars lost to achieve nothing. I still dont see what they gain from any of the wars above. And i doubt the profit they gain from oil is worth the dollars they spent on the war itself. The chiense gets their oil for the cost of a road here and a plant there.
All US politicians are extremely wealthy and wars allow them to grow even more wealthy at the expense of their country. They are war profiteers.
 

Il Prete Rosso

Prete, the Italian Pete
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
4,501
Location
Ospedale della Pietà
That's true, practically any commander who attains high rank in the american military will have done some horrible things. But unless your response also includes "and that's why we should completely change how and where the american military operates" then it sure seems that you are waving those atrocities away as the cost of doing business.

What I expect is for people to stop pretending that any of these people are good or the adults in the room. People are so desperate to find someone to oppose Trump that they've rehabilitated / ignored people who are at least as bad as he is.

John Kelly was the architect of the family separation policy. Jeff Flake voted with trump near constantly. Ari Fleischer help lie us into the Iraq War. John McCain never met a war he didn't like and happily sang a little jingle about bombing Iran. John Roberts killed the voting rights act. Mueller lied about WMDs, FBI agents routinely tortured people under his command, broke the law to spy on Americans thousands of times, spied on environmental activists and faith-based groups, and lied to congress. Bush Sr is responsible for the highway of death, the racist Willie Horton ad, supported multiple coups in latin america, and sexually assaulted multiple women. Bush Jr has millions of bodies on him, I don't think I need to go into the details. David Frum coined the "Axis Of Evil". Bill Kristol helped start the Iraq War. Steve Schmidt brought Sarah Palin into the national spotlight.


All of these people are horrible people who have caused massive amounts of death and suffering and yet all of them have been embraced in one way or another by liberals including many on here because every once in a while they offer mild criticism of trump.

The people who fall for this stuff time and time again do so because they've failed to develop any substantive critique of politics. They don't oppose Trump because he uses drone strikes to kill anywhere in the world with impunity. Obama did that and he wore a tan suit and shot hoops! They don't oppose Trump for dropping bombs in the Middle East. Bush did that and he gave Michelle Obama a butterscotch! They don't oppose Trump for lying and sexual assault. Clinton did that and he played saxophone on the Arsenio Hall Show! They don't oppose Trump for policies that harm the poorest among us. George HW Bush did that and isn't it inspiring how long he was married to Barbara?

Liberals both here and at large oppose Trump because he is vulgar and uncouth and he eats McDonalds. They don't want to admit that the America they've been brought up hearing about is a lie and always was a lie. They don't want to accept that the imperial presidency is bad, they just want the right person in that spot. They don't want to accept that corporations controlling ever more wealth is bad, they just want to lean in and ride skateboards to their startups making apps that disrupt industries. They don't want to accept that our judicial system is inherently compromised by lying, violent police officers and rat prosectors, they want to read Grisham novels at the airport. They don't want to accept that the military cultivates murderers and sends them around the world to kill brown people, they just want to sing the national anthem at football games.

The one thing we should take from the Trump presidency is that our institutions are irreparably terrible and need to be destroyed. Trump didn't make the intelligence agencies spy or torture, he didn't make congress undemocratic, he didn't make the military a tool of corporations, he didn't make the judicial system corrupt and answerable to money. All of those things were always true, his administration just exposed it.

Excellent post but you should replace that word with "Americans'.
 

KirkDuyt

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
24,660
Location
Dutchland
Supports
Feyenoord
His post is true of a lot of the reaction on this thread, and that's not only Americans.
Liberals in Holland have opposed the US in general since Bush senior was in office honestly. Then again we're so liberal that our liberal party is considered right wing.
 

berbatrick

Renaissance Man
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
21,727
Liberals in Holland have opposed the US in general since Bush senior was in office honestly. Then again we're so liberal that our liberal party is considered right wing.
I remember that Europe in general seemed horrified by W. But I think Trump has changed a lot of perspectives about the past of the US, including among people who follow politics outside the US too.
 

RedTiger

Half mast
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Messages
23,046
Location
Beside the sea-side, Beside the sea.
Ahh the classic Trump effect where he makes cnuts look like saints. Donny has got some people thinking that Bush was alright, McCain was a class act and Mattis is valiance personified. Next we’re going to be calling Kissinger an all American hero.
Just wait until his funeral, Kissinger will get a full state burial and will be feted as the architect of the modern World order.
 

Hammerfell

Full Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
7,778
Has he been particularly unstable the last few weeks or has he always been like this? Something seems a little more off with him lately.
 

Florida Man

Cartoon expert and crap superhero
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
13,924
Location
Florida, man
That's true, practically any commander who attains high rank in the american military will have done some horrible things. But unless your response also includes "and that's why we should completely change how and where the american military operates" then it sure seems that you are waving those atrocities away as the cost of doing business.

What I expect is for people to stop pretending that any of these people are good or the adults in the room. People are so desperate to find someone to oppose Trump that they've rehabilitated / ignored people who are at least as bad as he is.

John Kelly was the architect of the family separation policy. Jeff Flake voted with trump near constantly. Ari Fleischer help lie us into the Iraq War. John McCain never met a war he didn't like and happily sang a little jingle about bombing Iran. John Roberts killed the voting rights act. Mueller lied about WMDs, FBI agents routinely tortured people under his command, broke the law to spy on Americans thousands of times, spied on environmental activists and faith-based groups, and lied to congress. Bush Sr is responsible for the highway of death, the racist Willie Horton ad, supported multiple coups in latin america, and sexually assaulted multiple women. Bush Jr has millions of bodies on him, I don't think I need to go into the details. David Frum coined the "Axis Of Evil". Bill Kristol helped start the Iraq War. Steve Schmidt brought Sarah Palin into the national spotlight.


All of these people are horrible people who have caused massive amounts of death and suffering and yet all of them have been embraced in one way or another by liberals including many on here because every once in a while they offer mild criticism of trump.

The people who fall for this stuff time and time again do so because they've failed to develop any substantive critique of politics. They don't oppose Trump because he uses drone strikes to kill anywhere in the world with impunity. Obama did that and he wore a tan suit and shot hoops! They don't oppose Trump for dropping bombs in the Middle East. Bush did that and he gave Michelle Obama a butterscotch! They don't oppose Trump for lying and sexual assault. Clinton did that and he played saxophone on the Arsenio Hall Show! They don't oppose Trump for policies that harm the poorest among us. George HW Bush did that and isn't it inspiring how long he was married to Barbara?

Liberals both here and at large oppose Trump because he is vulgar and uncouth and he eats McDonalds. They don't want to admit that the America they've been brought up hearing about is a lie and always was a lie. They don't want to accept that the imperial presidency is bad, they just want the right person in that spot. They don't want to accept that corporations controlling ever more wealth is bad, they just want to lean in and ride skateboards to their startups making apps that disrupt industries. They don't want to accept that our judicial system is inherently compromised by lying, violent police officers and rat prosectors, they want to read Grisham novels at the airport. They don't want to accept that the military cultivates murderers and sends them around the world to kill brown people, they just want to sing the national anthem at football games.

The one thing we should take from the Trump presidency is that our institutions are irreparably terrible and need to be destroyed. Trump didn't make the intelligence agencies spy or torture, he didn't make congress undemocratic, he didn't make the military a tool of corporations, he didn't make the judicial system corrupt and answerable to money. All of those things were always true, his administration just exposed it.
Good post man, never seen you write an essay before. And I genuinely agree with just about all of this. The only part I disagree with is destroying it all at once. I used to feel that way but I feel like everyone suffers if that were to happen. I just think change comes with time, from the inside out, one generation at a time.

Just wait until his funeral, Kissinger will get a full state burial and will be feted as the architect of the modern World order.
Well that's not untrue to be fair. He was a massively influential character in geopolitics and just about as Machiavellian as one could get. No doubt the media will portray him in a positive light when he dies.
 

KirkDuyt

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
24,660
Location
Dutchland
Supports
Feyenoord
I remember that Europe in general seemed horrified by W. But I think Trump has changed a lot of perspectives about the past of the US, including among people who follow politics outside the US too.
Indeed. What others have said about the perception of others when compated to Trump holds quote quote true. Coverage of John McCain's death painted him basicly as a saint and even George W. Is used in comparisons with Trump in a favorable way.

Though I think the main thing that makes Trump so globally despised is his visibility. His dumb tweets are there for everyone to see
 

DavidDeSchmikes

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
17,310
That's true, practically any commander who attains high rank in the american military will have done some horrible things. But unless your response also includes "and that's why we should completely change how and where the american military operates" then it sure seems that you are waving those atrocities away as the cost of doing business.

What I expect is for people to stop pretending that any of these people are good or the adults in the room. People are so desperate to find someone to oppose Trump that they've rehabilitated / ignored people who are at least as bad as he is.

John Kelly was the architect of the family separation policy. Jeff Flake voted with trump near constantly. Ari Fleischer help lie us into the Iraq War. John McCain never met a war he didn't like and happily sang a little jingle about bombing Iran. John Roberts killed the voting rights act. Mueller lied about WMDs, FBI agents routinely tortured people under his command, broke the law to spy on Americans thousands of times, spied on environmental activists and faith-based groups, and lied to congress. Bush Sr is responsible for the highway of death, the racist Willie Horton ad, supported multiple coups in latin america, and sexually assaulted multiple women. Bush Jr has millions of bodies on him, I don't think I need to go into the details. David Frum coined the "Axis Of Evil". Bill Kristol helped start the Iraq War. Steve Schmidt brought Sarah Palin into the national spotlight.


All of these people are horrible people who have caused massive amounts of death and suffering and yet all of them have been embraced in one way or another by liberals including many on here because every once in a while they offer mild criticism of trump.

The people who fall for this stuff time and time again do so because they've failed to develop any substantive critique of politics. They don't oppose Trump because he uses drone strikes to kill anywhere in the world with impunity. Obama did that and he wore a tan suit and shot hoops! They don't oppose Trump for dropping bombs in the Middle East. Bush did that and he gave Michelle Obama a butterscotch! They don't oppose Trump for lying and sexual assault. Clinton did that and he played saxophone on the Arsenio Hall Show! They don't oppose Trump for policies that harm the poorest among us. George HW Bush did that and isn't it inspiring how long he was married to Barbara?

Liberals both here and at large oppose Trump because he is vulgar and uncouth and he eats McDonalds. They don't want to admit that the America they've been brought up hearing about is a lie and always was a lie. They don't want to accept that the imperial presidency is bad, they just want the right person in that spot. They don't want to accept that corporations controlling ever more wealth is bad, they just want to lean in and ride skateboards to their startups making apps that disrupt industries. They don't want to accept that our judicial system is inherently compromised by lying, violent police officers and rat prosectors, they want to read Grisham novels at the airport. They don't want to accept that the military cultivates murderers and sends them around the world to kill brown people, they just want to sing the national anthem at football games.

The one thing we should take from the Trump presidency is that our institutions are irreparably terrible and need to be destroyed. Trump didn't make the intelligence agencies spy or torture, he didn't make congress undemocratic, he didn't make the military a tool of corporations, he didn't make the judicial system corrupt and answerable to money. All of those things were always true, his administration just exposed it.
Great post!
Someone else who has been rehabilitated because of his criticism of Trump?........John Brennan
 

Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 21, 2015
Messages
38,565
Supports
Arsenal
Has he been particularly unstable the last few weeks or has he always been like this? Something seems a little more off with him lately.
He has always been like this. Look at his past tweets. He just goes through the emotions, tweeting what he feels atm without thinking a second about it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.