Frenkie de Jong| Off to Barca - Confirmed

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Dont understand the comparisons in here. Different players, roles, positions and stages in their career.

The one thing i know is De Jong will be a top top player one day, he has a rare ability and makes the game look easy. I dont get how people watch him and cant think of seeing someone special on the field. He is an absolute gem, same goes for his partner in crime De Ligt.
 
Cait Sith said:
I'm convinced the hype stems mainly from the Barca/Guardiola/Dutch Cruyffian football community gang who see the "next Xavi/Busquets/Iniesta" in any player whose passing ability is above average. My suspicion is backed up by the fact that no one is talking about Ajax' actual best midfielder by a mile: Ziyech. Never gets any mention at all so people clearly don't even watch Ajax. Just hoards of Barca/Guardiola/Dutch Cruyffian hipsters pushing each other up.

The same community had built up Jean-Seri as the next Xavi not long ago who is now at Fulham.
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Ziyech is the definition of big fish in small pond. Sigurdsson level of peak. Assuming he ever leaves the league he’s stat-padded in for six years.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Ziyech is the definition of big fish in small pond. Sigurdsson level of peak. Assuming he ever leaves the league he’s stat-padded in for six years.
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Shht, the Ziyech fanboys will come after you if you make this much sense :lol:
 
izec said:
Dont understand the comparisons in here. Different players, roles, positions and stages in their career.

The one thing i know is De Jong will be a top top player one day, he has a rare ability and makes the game look easy. I dont get how people watch him and cant think of seeing someone special on the field. He is an absolute gem, same goes for his partner in crime De Ligt.
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As the hype built, more and more people tuned in to watch him specifically and he was underwhelming relative to said hype in the national league A games recently played outside of the first one or two where he looked the part.

Let's be honest, in the grand scheme, very few people will be won over by performances in the Erediviside - so he will have to look truly outstanding in the CL and for his NT to live up to the billing.

He hasn't looked like an all-time player in the making in the majority of these huge games, yet, which the hype in here has suggested he should do, which leaves some wondering what all the fuss is about.

If he is some elite prodigy, as he's purported to be, he'll need to light up the remainder of the season to truly meet the mark of so many who have gone before him.
 
We should honestly go all out for this kid, he would absolutely flourish playing the Matic role for us and could do it for over 10 years. Unfortunately it's not likely to happen :(, him and De Ligt definite dream signings
 
DWelbz19 said:
Ziyech is the definition of big fish in small pond. Sigurdsson level of peak. Assuming he ever leaves the league he’s stat-padded in for six years.
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And De Jong isn't even a big fish in that small pond.
Also Sigurdsson would kill to have that kind of technical talent
 
I only saw him twice in the ajax-bayern games and i was not impressed. I know, "two game scouting" is silly and i am not saying, that he is overhyped, but let's be a bit cautious with these kids.
 
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AgentP said:
His long passes both on the floor and in the air are amazing. I also like the fact that he plays these long balls instantly and doesn't need those extra milliseconds to think over it. Don't know if we should actually go for him though. We don't play with a No.10. Can he play as a winger or in Herrera's role?
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I didn't mean to suggest Ziyech should be a target for United. I don't think he's top top level in that sense, just that some of his qualities are. He plays as our right winger this season, played as right half the seasons before. He actually covers a lot of ground and presses aggressively for such a seemingly lightweight guy. He also is very much a confidence player though, so for months of the season he goes completely off the boil and starts playing more desperate glory passes and long shots, unfortunately. doesn't have the mentality for a top club.

Gate99 said:
These Ziyech lovers haha. Can they also explain why last summer when he wanted and could leave, there was no interest except AS Roma, who went for little Kluivert instead, while the biggest clubs want De Jong? De Jong is on a completely different level. Ziyech will eventually get his transfer, but it will be AS Roma level, not the absolute top, and he will have it difficult there. Ajax enables him, he can do his thing, not track back, lose the ball lots of times, even when Ajax is under pressure and he should have kept the ball in the team. If you do that in Italy or England, you end up on the bench, there are too many other good players to get away with it. At Ajax, the likes of Schone will clean up for him and enable his play. Interestingly, only Bayern managed to suppress De Jong effectively once, in the 2nd CL game, and the trick was to close in with 1 player ahead of him and another to cover the passing lines and to close in when the first player failed. It sort of worked, but at the expense of creating lots of space elsewhere, and in that way it didn't work. Ziyech among others profited from that. There is a reason it wasn't the other way round. For Ziyech to work, you need other players to work for him. There are a dime a dozen players like that. De Jong is the other way round, he's a metronome who enables the team. While Ziyech will have it difficult in a bigger competition, I think De Jong however will profit from playing for a bigger team. For example, if he would play for Barca and they would play Bayern, Bayern can't do the same thing, they couldn't sacrifice two players to a DM when you have the likes of Messi and others running around.
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your opinion of Ziyech is shocking. he's consistently shown to work just as hard on the midfield as anyone. go watch Ajax - Lyon again, and see who was our hardest working midfielder; it wasn't Klaassen...

praising Ziyech doesn't mean I don't rate De Jong. It's just this one aspect of his game, long balls, that Ziyech excels in and De Jong is disappointingly poor in
 
Fortitude said:
As the hype built, more and more people tuned in to watch him specifically and he was underwhelming relative to said hype in the national league A games recently played outside of the first one or two where he looked the part.

Let's be honest, in the grand scheme, very few people will be won over by performances in the Erediviside - so he will have to look truly outstanding in the CL and for his NT to live up to the billing.

He hasn't looked like an all-time player in the making in the majority of these huge games, yet, which the hype in here has suggested he should do, which leaves some wondering what all the fuss is about.

If he is some elite prodigy, as he's purported to be, he'll need to light up the remainder of the season to truly meet the mark of so many who have gone before him.
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the sad/annoying thing for De Jong, if he cares at all about how the internet views him, is that he had a big drop in form right as his hype online peaked (around the Germany-Bayern game). From August-November he was on a whole nother level both in international games and CL qualifiers + a couple games. I think it may have something to do with the injury he picked up in the Benfica away game, just a week before his poor game vs germany. I think the winter break is good for him, also cause he was only just returning from a serious ankle injury at the start of the season
 
Ajaxsuarez said:
It's just this one aspect of his game, long balls, that Ziyech excels in and De Jong is disappointingly poor in
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Just curious where you got this idea? His long passes are great, with the stats to back it up.
 
Gate99 said:
Just curious where you got this idea? His long passes are great, with the stats to back it up.
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by being a season ticket holder and watching him since he joined the club at 18?

his long passes, even his semi-long passes, are these annoying soft lofty balls that are never actually pinpoint to some best target. they just float toward some general direction. I'd actually say his vision for spotting and executing long and through balls are not really all that amazing either. Nouri's vision and through balls were multiple times better, for example.

he doesn't often go for long balls though, but when he does it's not that they don't reach a teammate it's that the recipient usually receives it sort of behind him, which together with the slow pace of the pass usually allows for opposition defence to regroup completely. bit busy now but i'll try to find some examples of the passes of his i mean later on
 
Ajaxsuarez said:
by being a season ticket holder and watching him since he joined the club at 18?

his long passes, even his semi-long passes, are these annoying soft lofty balls that are never actually pinpoint to some best target. they just float toward some general direction. I'd actually say his vision for spotting and executing long and through balls are not really all that amazing either. Nouri's vision and through balls were multiple times better, for example.

he doesn't often go for long balls though, but when he does it's not that they don't reach a teammate it's that the recipient usually receives it sort of behind him, which together with the slow pace of the pass usually allows for opposition defence to regroup completely. bit busy now but i'll try to find some examples of the passes of his i mean later on
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Yeah I watch the player too, it's not a very good argument or authoritative on itself. I can also post some examples of good passes, and bad passes, just like I can for Ziyech.
 
Gate99 said:
Yeah I watch the player too, it's not a very good argument or authoritative on itself. I can also post some examples of good passes, and bad passes, just like I can for Ziyech.
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it's not about good or bad passes, it's the style/technique of his long passes that i don't like. surely you can recognise that he sort of "chips" his long passes too much? they're lofty slow balls 95% of the time. it's like my one main criticism of what i think is a fantastic player and special talent, so there's no need to be so defensive about it.
 
It's rather defensive if you're out of arguments, to just say someone is defensive instead of counter-argument ;)

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/player-analysis/frenkie-de-jong-ajax-amsterdam-tactical-analysis

"You can´t give him an inch of space because he can quickly make you pay with one of his incredible long passes. They have the accuracy of the passes of most defenders. The difference is that he creates immediate opportunities with those long balls."

NnimJZ2.png


But I agree he chips some long balls, which seems to be what you repeat all the time. If you're playing from the back you sometimes need that height otherwise the ball is intercepted.
 
He;s good, but now a world beater, he's not the new Scholes.

He would do good in a team with other good players, like Barca or Man City. But he won't do good in a team where he really needs to carry them or make a huge difference in the lineup.
 
youmeletsfly said:
He;s good, but now a world beater, he's not the new Scholes.

He would do good in a team with other good players, like Barca or Man City. But he won't do good in a team where he really needs to carry them or make a huge difference in the lineup.
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He's dynamic enough to make the difference in any sort of side. I often find that less dynamic players are the ones who struggle to make a difference in sides without great talent around.
 
RooneyLegend said:
He's dynamic enough to make the difference in any sort of side. I often find that less dynamic players are the ones who struggle to make a difference in sides without great talent around.
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He's quality, in a side with not much talent around he will pop, as you've mentioned.

I still think he's not the finished article and that he'd benefit from going to a top team with talent around him. That would really help him become the finished article. As a simple example, I don't see him doing good for us. Being that young, he still takes too much time on the ball at times(at least, from what I've seen of him), and that would kill you in the EPL.

I agree that he's a good, dynamic little young player, but I do feel there's too much hype around him. We'll see how it unfolds in 2-3 years time when we can really expect big things from him.

I would've liked to see him in Jardim's Monaco for a season or two to be honest, or at Dortmund.
 
We don't need him, I'd rather see more opportunities given to McTominay, he's a baller.
 
Holocene said:
Really? He gets absolutely slated.
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Check recently, his last performance ranges from "Good" to "MOTM" apparently. If we genuinely believe we should be playing players like McTominay over acquiring players like De Jong we don't deserve to be anywhere near the title.
 
Acole9 said:
We don't need him, I'd rather see more opportunities given to McTominay, he's a baller.
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no white text, no emoji etc etc....if you had 90 posts I'd say you got promoted too soon in the old days. At 9k+ posts you're either Scottish and hate United or you're Scottish and have had too many whiskeys.

He is MILES better than McT in so many aspects...which is why a lot of top teams are in for him and no one in for McT who at the best will be the next O'Shea
 
youmeletsfly said:
He;s good, but now a world beater, he's not the new Scholes.

He would do good in a team with other good players, like Barca or Man City. But he won't do good in a team where he really needs to carry them or make a huge difference in the lineup.
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I boldly predict that you'll change your mind in a season or two when he's considered one of the best midfielders in the world.

You can just see there's something special about the kid from the little things - the way he moves on and off the ball, his timing of passes, his anticipation of players around him, his vision of what's happening on the pitch, etc. Just my two cents.
 
We need an rvn said:
no white text, no emoji etc etc....if you had 90 posts I'd say you got promoted too soon in the old days. At 9k+ posts you're either Scottish and hate United or you're Scottish and have had too many whiskeys.

He is MILES better than McT in so many aspects...which is why a lot of top teams are in for him and no one in for McT who at the best will be the next O'Shea
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;)
 
The guy reminds me of early days Xabi Alonso, especially 01/02, before he finally burst on the scene in 02/03 when Sociedad finished 2nd. I am certain he will eventually have just as illustrious career. Sad he is Barca bound.
 
youmeletsfly said:
He's quality, in a side with not much talent around he will pop, as you've mentioned.
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It depends I think. He did lift the Dutch side which isn't the best of all time at the moment. Players not as great as previously featured are lifted. But I do think he needs a side which plays a certain brand of football. Personally (my mother is from Manchester) I would love to see him at United, but it is a risk, as it's not clear what the brand of football is (it changes each manager), and I don't think he will be interested because of that. With Mourinho there, it would have been wrong. With Pochettino, it would be much more interesting. It would be harder compared to playing for Barca, Man City or PSG, but there is the potential Cantona effect in there. Not as the type of player or character, but as a player who galvanizes the team.
 
youmeletsfly said:
He's quality, in a side with not much talent around he will pop, as you've mentioned.

I still think he's not the finished article and that he'd benefit from going to a top team with talent around him. That would really help him become the finished article. As a simple example, I don't see him doing good for us. Being that young, he still takes too much time on the ball at times(at least, from what I've seen of him), and that would kill you in the EPL.

I agree that he's a good, dynamic little young player, but I do feel there's too much hype around him. We'll see how it unfolds in 2-3 years time when we can really expect big things from him.

I would've liked to see him in Jardim's Monaco for a season or two to be honest, or at Dortmund.
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Obviously he's not the finished article. Hrs very young as we know. At times it looks like he plays safe instead of always trying his best to influence a game. Everyone could benefit from playing in a great team even the very best players benefit from it.

My point is he can do so much more than passing and standing still that he could be a great player in a not so great team. Dont agree with you on the taking too long to on the ball.

id worry if he was like Weigl or Rodri, but he's a different kettle of fish.
 
Jibbs said:
The guy reminds me of early days Xabi Alonso, especially 01/02, before he finally burst on the scene in 02/03 when Sociedad finished 2nd. I am certain he will eventually have just as illustrious career. Sad he is Barca bound.
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How? Xabi couldn't even move with the ball and he doesn't have anywhere near the Xabi passing range.
 
Gate99 said:
It's rather defensive if you're out of arguments, to just say someone is defensive instead of counter-argument ;)

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/player-analysis/frenkie-de-jong-ajax-amsterdam-tactical-analysis

"You can´t give him an inch of space because he can quickly make you pay with one of his incredible long passes. They have the accuracy of the passes of most defenders. The difference is that he creates immediate opportunities with those long balls."

NnimJZ2.png


But I agree he chips some long balls, which seems to be what you repeat all the time. If you're playing from the back you sometimes need that height otherwise the ball is intercepted.
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it's not about being out of arguments, i only have one? I just don't have the time right now to look for clips of the types of balls I'm referring to. Look at this video



The first minute has some nice balls but also some rather meh ones, but they share the same lofted technique he hits them with. Actually my biggest pet peeve of his is the weird half high balls of his in positions exactly like 1:15. At 2:38 to 3:01 there's another few examples of the type of passes I was originally referring to. Keep in mind that these are the good ones, considering it's a highlights video. It's the style of his long passes that I take issues with, they lack a crispness (zuiverheid). two more good examples at 5:40. Again at 11:20 and 11:35, 12:43
 
This thread is funny.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Firstly, yes, Ajax fans tend to overrate their youngsters. Everyone is the new Bergkamp or Litmanen until they turn out to be the new Victor Fischer or Tobias Sana, but with Frenkie de Jong even I have to admit that this kid has real potential. It's not even solely down to what he does with the ball, but it's very much the mental part of it. No matter who he plays and in what stadium he plays, he's completely unfazed by pressure and completely devoid of arrogance. Another important part of him being so good, is that he makes football look so very easy. That's something not a lot of players can do.Another big part why us Dutchers rate him so highly and want him to do well is his personality. He's pretty much a poster boy for all the values our country holds dear. No weird hairstyle, colorful tattoos, rap singles or insta-stories. Down to earth, articulate with the face of a farmhand. We go crazy for these types in Holland.

He will undoubtedly get a shot at an absolute topclub, because overrating or not aside, PSG, City and Barcelona all want him. A year from now he either flopped completely, or is indeed the next Xavi, who knows.

All that I know, I will forever tell all my Ajax supporting friends that he's from Willem 2's academy, so they can take their high horse and shove it up their bums.
 
KirkDuyt said:
This thread is funny.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Firstly, yes, Ajax fans tend to overrate their youngsters. Everyone is the new Bergkamp or Litmanen until they turn out to be the new Victor Fischer or Tobias Sana, but with Frenkie de Jong even I have to admit that this kid has real potential. It's not even solely down to what he does with the ball, but it's very much the mental part of it. No matter who he plays and in what stadium he plays, he's completely unfazed by pressure and completely devoid of arrogance. Another important part of him being so good, is that he makes football look so very easy. That's something not a lot of players can do.Another big part why us Dutchers rate him so highly and want him to do well is his personality. He's pretty much a poster boy for all the values our country holds dear. No weird hairstyle, colorful tattoos, rap singles or insta-stories. Down to earth, articulate with the face of a farmhand. We go crazy for these types in Holland.

He will undoubtedly get a shot at an absolute topclub, because overrating or not aside, PSG, City and Barcelona all want him. A year from now he either flopped completely, or is indeed the next Xavi, who knows.

All that I know, I will forever tell all my Ajax supporting friends that he's from Willem 2's academy, so they can take their high horse and shove it up their bums.
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So Frenkie De Jong is from Willem 2's academy? There is a Ajax fan I speak to regularly that says Frenkie is a product of the Ajax academy..
 
Adnan said:
So Frenkie De Jong is from Willem 2's academy? There is a Ajax fan I speak to regularly that says Frenkie is a product of the Ajax academy..
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He signed for Ajax in 2015 having already played in Willem's first team.

He's less of a youth product than Pogba is to us.
 
Gate99 said:
It's rather defensive if you're out of arguments, to just say someone is defensive instead of counter-argument ;)

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/player-analysis/frenkie-de-jong-ajax-amsterdam-tactical-analysis

"You can´t give him an inch of space because he can quickly make you pay with one of his incredible long passes. They have the accuracy of the passes of most defenders. The difference is that he creates immediate opportunities with those long balls."

NnimJZ2.png


But I agree he chips some long balls, which seems to be what you repeat all the time. If you're playing from the back you sometimes need that height otherwise the ball is intercepted.
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Pogba does this often every game but imagine De Jong playing with Pogba in midfield, :drool: it would be too much for the team to try to close both players down and try to press as De Long and Pogba can play a ball through pressing and switching play on the flank with a long ball.
 
deafepl said:
Pogba does this often every game but imagine De Jong playing with Pogba in midfield, :drool: it would be too much for the team to try to close both players down and try to press as De Long and Pogba can play a ball through pressing and switching play on the flank with a long ball.
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He could take over Matic's role pretty perfectly.
 
There is a big hype around de Jong (=> high price) and he seems to be bound for Barca.

I think we should have a look at Donny van de Beek from Ajax, it seem like he is the real deal as much as de Jong and probably would be a lot cheaper.
 
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