Steven Gerrard.
People rate him alongside Scholes and Lampard, which is a joke in itself.
People rate him alongside Scholes and Lampard, which is a joke in itself.
Who is the most overrated player in PL history?
- Thread starter sullydnl
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Wayne Rooney
I’ll get banned if I say Giggs won’t I?
He was amazing as a youngster but for me he was never one of United’s three most important players for the vast majority of his time at the club. His longevity and ability to become a decent midfield player later in his career are laudable but I don’t think he was ever world class.
Gerrard is also overrated by people who think he was a “complete midfielder”. He was outstanding as an attacking midfielder/second striker when he had Alonso and Mascherano behind him and was also a damn good right midfielder during the “treble” season and between 2005 and 2007. Was always poor as a CM though and was unable to control a football match.
He was amazing as a youngster but for me he was never one of United’s three most important players for the vast majority of his time at the club. His longevity and ability to become a decent midfield player later in his career are laudable but I don’t think he was ever world class.
Gerrard is also overrated by people who think he was a “complete midfielder”. He was outstanding as an attacking midfielder/second striker when he had Alonso and Mascherano behind him and was also a damn good right midfielder during the “treble” season and between 2005 and 2007. Was always poor as a CM though and was unable to control a football match.
Manchester United.
Ken Early also thinks Iniesta was overrated.
I usually think he’s spot on but he has a weird blind spot for brilliant Spanish midfielders whose numbers don’t show their full impact.
To be fair, I’m pretty sure the context of this was Graeme Souness calling Silva the best Premier League player ever or something. In which case he’d have a point.
If we’re going by the popular opinion that Shearer was the “best Premier League striker ever” then it’s a fair shout. Henry was a different level to him and I’d say Agüero and Suárez were also better.
His goal record will probably never be beaten but the early Premier League was a third tier competition by European standards. I’d hate to think what a peak Henry would’ve done to some of those defenders who would be lower Championship at best if they were playing nowadays.
Shearer also had a ridiculous number of penalties in his record. He scored 52 Premier League penalties. Henry is the second highest scoring striker from the penalty spot with 22 goals.
Let’s be honest here, the 2005 final is one of the all time greatest football flukes and the game turned when Benítez took Gerrard out of central midfield and put Hamann there instead. When Gerrard was in CM, Milan were tearing them apart at will.
Not really. Campbell rates himself accurately but the rest of football seems to have forgotten how good he was. England’s brave lion is still lauded as a legend but Campbell was the superior player. I don’t blame him for being bitter.
I also think there’s an unconcious racial bias in the negativity he gets for being a bit of a fruitcake and tosser who makes self-aggrandizing statements when Tony Adams seems to get a free pass for being (imo) even worse.
The Sunday Supplement lot adored him.
It’s important to remember that West Ham is the second most supported club by English journalists (after Liverpool).
yeah, Campbell as a player was pretty formidable for me
has it over Adams pretty comfortably anyway
I was waiting for the penalty reference to Shearer & anyone might look a bit sick, in the negative sense, compared to a peak Bertie Bigtime & showboating cheating twat Henry (see, we can all do it)
but I do feel we are working pretty hard to put these guys down for the purposes of the thread - and Gerrard too
Scholes is always an interesting one - because we love him so much. Originaly a split striker of course, for a team that wouldn't really ever want to play with one, for a long time & then ended up with about 5 different players trying to be crow-barred in there when SAF was evolving/faffing about with his tactical approach for Europe.
And you can't have Giggsy - that's just absurd. Every RB in the League was terrified of him for about a decade.
has it over Adams pretty comfortably anyway
I was waiting for the penalty reference to Shearer & anyone might look a bit sick, in the negative sense, compared to a peak Bertie Bigtime & showboating cheating twat Henry (see, we can all do it)
but I do feel we are working pretty hard to put these guys down for the purposes of the thread - and Gerrard too
Scholes is always an interesting one - because we love him so much. Originaly a split striker of course, for a team that wouldn't really ever want to play with one, for a long time & then ended up with about 5 different players trying to be crow-barred in there when SAF was evolving/faffing about with his tactical approach for Europe.
And you can't have Giggsy - that's just absurd. Every RB in the League was terrified of him for about a decade.
He was very good at his peak but injuries ruined him and he’s finished now. A total liability. I wouldn’t consider him an all-time great PL player as some do, simply because his peak was only a couple of seasons long.
A fella on Twitter the other day was arguing that Le Tissier was a better player than Özil.
Even in this thread, somebody said Giggs > Cristiano. Giggs was a good player, very good in spells but he was never at Cristiano’s level.
Most people would agree that Giggs was at his best in the nineties but even then he was maddeningly incosistent. A legend but not a true great for me.
Agree with this.
I wouldn’t but ‘97 as the cut-off point but totally agree with the general point. Early Premier League was very poor. You just can’t compare a league full of British and Irish journeymen to one made up of top international footballers.
Özil. Arsenal fans always talk how great he is, because he makes 1-2 assists vs relegation teams. When he plays against top clubs, he almost always hides.
One of the best players I've ever watched live so I'd strongly have to disagree. Personally I'd have it as Scholes first but Gerrard for me was more talented than Lampard who had the benefit of playing in a better side, and with the freedom to roam in that attacking midfield position.
Gerrard's problem was that he wasn't moulded and played in an optimal role until midway into his career (08/09) season.
It comes across like a bitter 'Rawk' thread where 80% of fans choose Gerrard cause he happens to Liverpool's icon. No way is that guy overrated, he was simply a great footballer albeit he couldn't play CM - big deal - as an AM where he should have been played from day dot, he was outstanding. You wouldn't criticise Kaka for playing CM so why do it with Gerrard?
Currently I'd go with Gabriel Jesus ... remember Murphy going mental about him and I just don't see why he's rated so highly by the media.
Robbie Fowler - fantastic finisher but couldn't get into the england set up.. yet is referred to as 'GOD' by Liverpool fans. Never rated him as highly as Owen and I think Owen was comfortably the superior player IMO.
Antonio Valencia.. used to annoy me how highly rated he was by United fans, always thought he was a reliable servant but very one dimensional compared to our wingers in the past. Prioritising him over Nani just never made sense to me as the latter always gave us a more unpredictable threat down the flank.
Carrick for me gets so mentioned in 'underrated' threads, he has become overrated IMO. He's a strange case of no doubt being a pivotal figure in our return to success, yet at the same time also fortunate to be the only competent midfielder we signed post Keane. Stick Mascherano in there and we'd have been just as successful if not more so. He's talked about as one of the great passers of our time, but for me his stand out attribute was that defensively he was brilliant but his passing range was not that progressive, passed backwards a lot under pressure and was fortunate that he played in an era where pressing wasn't that widespread in the EPL. Barca exposed him massively though.
Disagree with people saying Gerrard. If you asked the question on RAWK they would say Scholes.
Ozil for me, even though he signed for a rival i was still looking forward to see him play (as a football fan). Despite the odd good performance here and there, he's disappointed hugely.
Zola was class but is overrated because his technical ability was so far ahead of what English people had seen at the time. Wasn’t considered elite in Italy (he was great for Parma, but Baggio and Mancini were gods and almost every team had a brilliant fantasista) and didn’t move to England till his 30, where he instantly became one of the best players in the league.
The same thing happened to a lesser extent with Di Canio. Decent player in Serie A but much more highly rated in Britain.
People tend to forget that a lot of the early Premier League imports were either ageing and on their way down or rejects who had struggled at their previous club for one reason or other. Yet they all looked totally different class in England.
When I was younger I used to think Frank Lampard was overrated. Never quite understood what made him a great player. He seemed to just be at the right place at the right time. And rather than think that was a skill in itself, i put it down to sheer luck.
Also relevant in the weird feelings of football thread as I was of the believe that most of his goals were deflected.
Also relevant in the weird feelings of football thread as I was of the believe that most of his goals were deflected.
He did score a hell of a lot of goals from deflections compared to almost any other player. And plenty of penalties too.
Though he played farther back, Lampard was quite similar to Kane in that he’d take more shots than any other player from almost anywhere within 30 metres of the goal.
I began to appreciate him a lot more when he moved back and actually became a very good all round midfielder. It’s funny that people think of Lampard as just a goalscorer and Gerrard as more well rounded when I think Lampard actually looked the more assured and intelligent player as a 6 or 8 than Gerrard ever did.
Who considers Bent and Crouch legends? Aren’t they generally considered to be trash?
If anything they’re underrated (along with Heskey).
Bergkamp.
How are people dropping Lampards name? Are you lot on something? Voted 3rd best in the world in one season. What about guys like Parker, Wilshere
To you people who says Scholes, can you explain please?
He's one of the best midfielders this league and Country as ever seen. How can he be overrated? And please state Your age while explaining.. I have a hard time beliving someone who saw Scholes through his career can actually be serious..
Same for Terry tbf, he was a brilliant CB.
For me, the most overrated player is either Bellerin or Gerrard as CM.
The most overrated United player has to be Anderson. He was, simply put, shit.
He's one of the best midfielders this league and Country as ever seen. How can he be overrated? And please state Your age while explaining.. I have a hard time beliving someone who saw Scholes through his career can actually be serious..
Same for Terry tbf, he was a brilliant CB.
For me, the most overrated player is either Bellerin or Gerrard as CM.
The most overrated United player has to be Anderson. He was, simply put, shit.
And then Hodgson came along and put him back in his “proper position” of CM, on the insistence of Gerrard.
I don’t think that the Kaká comparison is fair because Kaká knew where his strengths lie and never spent years undermining the manager who made him to his mates in the media because he wouldn’t put him in his favourite position.
I’m not a United or Liverpool fan, but I watched enough of Gerrard stinking up the England midfield for a decade, trying to do his Roy of the Rovers thing to know that the “Steven Gerrard, most complete midfielder in the world” thing is a total myth.
Actually 2nd , only to lose out to Ronaldinho who was quite frankly at a stratospheric, untouchable level in 2005. Ya, it's absolutely mental to mention Lampard in the discussion, when the fact is he's often underrated when it comes to comparison with scholes and gerrard.
Being voted third best player in the world kind of supports the overrated theory doesn’t it? Lampard was never that good.
Parker and Wilshere were overrated for a while but now the majority see them for what they were.
Youre talking nonsense. No one has a good game every match youve literally picked one game where valencia played well. Its as valid as me saying evra was wank because aaron lennon tore him apart game after game. He was one of the best 1 on 1 full backs in the world. Clearly you didnt watch properly. Ashley cole routinely beaten at chelsea what utter bollocks.He was a good player. There was no point where he was nearly as good as pundits and people in general liked to pretend he was...and he definitely wasn't at his best for over a decade
I can't think of any other world class full backs who would so routinely have problems dealing with opponents. Maybe someone like Carlos but then he was a bigger attacking threat than most forwards.
No, it means that you didn’t like him. Not the same thing at all.
He was never hyped up by the press. Nor was there a groundswell of opinion amount United fans that he was great; plenty of people preferred the hard-working Valencia. So I completely fail to see how he could be described as overrated.
Nobody cared about City until last season, and since then it’s been Pep that’s been given most of the credit, so I’d argue that their players, Silva and Aguero especially, have generally been underrated. Gerrard and to a lesser extent Viera were in teams beloved by the media, so haven’t been. The only overrating of Gerrard was in an England context, as he was a must-pick despite constantly underperforming.
I have a colleague (Gooner) who dismissed Rooney as a fat, slow player who was slightly above average. He wasn't talking about Rooney's later years.
I'm tempted to put a lot of it down to Rooney being generally disliked (by both rival AND Utd fans for different reasons), coupled with him being somehat a media darling even amid his protracted decline, which leads to the perception of him being overrated even on a Utd forum.
Beckham's peak was 97-02 when I feel he was absolutely world class for United. His decline started in 03 for me, his last season at United. In 06 he was only 2 years away from going to America so I don't think there's anything too controversial in what you say.
Beckham was not only good at crossing. His passing was superb too, so was his ability to score from distance. He only lacked dribbling ability.
I think he’s overrated by United fans, certainly on this forum. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t brilliant for us, but for example this is a genuine quote on here:
“Suffered from being English and having bad marketing during his playing career. If he'd be South American he'd be rated alongside Pele and Maradona.”
An extreme example, but the Cafe consensus seems to be that he should be ranked alongside the likes of Zidane and Xavi, and that Gerrard and Lampard are well beneath him. I doubt there are many if any non-United fans who would share that opinion of him.
I’m 35 btw and watched his entire career.
Toby Alderweireld
Gerrard didn’t know what his own best position was and I agree that he is to blame somewhat for asking to be played in a position which didn’t suit him but ultimately the buck stops with the manager and coaching in terms of making him aware what is his best position and making him ‘love’ a new position which was better for him. Not to mention even Lampard stunk out CM for England because they played 442 and had it been a three man midfield then Gerrard could technically have played as a CM albeit the most attacking of the trio and been a success.
Rooney and Pogba are examples at United who struggled to know what their own best position is and played best in positions which didn’t quite match what they themselvses thought of themselves but also suffered by being mishandled by managers tactically and forced into water carrier roles at times to the detriment of their form. Does that take anything away from their talent? No.
He was a superb footballer end of IMO and if he had played at United it wouldn’t even be up for discussion.
pointless "discussion"
lets name some rival player
lets name some rival player
Have a word with yourself. Possibly the best passer of the ball of all time. The man who Xavi called the most complete central midfielder.
Henry said he was the best he'd seen play.
Edgar Davids said "i'm not the best, Paul Scholes is"
“He is the one whose level I aspire to. He is the best player in the Premier League.” – Cesc Fabregas
Overrated? Jog on pal.
@OutlawGER if you don’t discuss Beckham at United and haven’t seen him in the EPL then your opinion lacks any validity albeit you’re correct to say by 2006 - he was a walking poster boy who could do feck all other than cross. By this stage he was playing purely on reputation.
The younger Becks was never a ‘dribbler’ but he had enough nimbleness and athleticism to overlap, come inside effectively and his possession play was excellent (he wasn’t just hitting Hollywood balls for the sake of it all the time - there was much more discipline in his game). He was also excellent defensively.
He wouldn’t really be a wide forward though in the modern game and not in a 433 but he was a very talented player who you could see being moulded into a mid in the modern EPL with the extra protection afforded to more silkier mids or right mid in a side playing 4231 with attacking full backs.
He was very tough to mark out of the game because of his unorthodox style of playing the game and Lizarazu who dealt well with the likes of Figo found Beckham very tough to deal with as when he would prevent him from crossing Beckham would just cut in and help dominate midfield and if he blocked him coming inside Beckhams would cross from afar or go down the line and put in a peach of a ball.
Final thing to note is that his delivery was unbelievable - it was spot on nearly every time. Compare that to any current footballer and the amount of attacking positions the likes of Sterling or Martial get into and imagine someone in that space and passing it in with unerring accuracy and consistency (even De Bruyne doesn’t come close) That’s what got him to second in the world in terms of rankings - not his good looks.
The younger Becks was never a ‘dribbler’ but he had enough nimbleness and athleticism to overlap, come inside effectively and his possession play was excellent (he wasn’t just hitting Hollywood balls for the sake of it all the time - there was much more discipline in his game). He was also excellent defensively.
He wouldn’t really be a wide forward though in the modern game and not in a 433 but he was a very talented player who you could see being moulded into a mid in the modern EPL with the extra protection afforded to more silkier mids or right mid in a side playing 4231 with attacking full backs.
He was very tough to mark out of the game because of his unorthodox style of playing the game and Lizarazu who dealt well with the likes of Figo found Beckham very tough to deal with as when he would prevent him from crossing Beckham would just cut in and help dominate midfield and if he blocked him coming inside Beckhams would cross from afar or go down the line and put in a peach of a ball.
Final thing to note is that his delivery was unbelievable - it was spot on nearly every time. Compare that to any current footballer and the amount of attacking positions the likes of Sterling or Martial get into and imagine someone in that space and passing it in with unerring accuracy and consistency (even De Bruyne doesn’t come close) That’s what got him to second in the world in terms of rankings - not his good looks.
Saying he's along With Pele and Maradonna is too far, I agree. They are one of the greatest players ever. Scholes is on the best of his generation. Mentioning him alongside Xavi and Zidane is fine. There's a reason every other player, be it friend of foe says he's one of the best they've ever played with or against. If anything, Scholes is actually underrated imo. He should be seen as good as Xavi.