Who is the most overrated player in PL history?

RochaRoja said:
Not really. Campbell rates himself accurately but the rest of football seems to have forgotten how good he was. England’s brave lion is still lauded as a legend but Campbell was the superior player. I don’t blame him for being bitter.

I also think there’s an unconcious racial bias in the negativity he gets for being a bit of a fruitcake and tosser who makes self-aggrandizing statements when Tony Adams seems to get a free pass for being (imo) even worse.
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So he's a bit of a tosser and a fruitcake but anyone who points that out is unconsciously racist?

Tony Adams is also a bit of a pillock but he hasn't made half of the self-aggrandizing statements Sol has. I also disagree with your notion that Campbell was the better player but I can do so without resorting to calling you a racist or other such inflammatory terms.
 
iHicksy said:
Have a word with yourself. Possibly the best passer of the ball of all time. The man who Xavi called the most complete central midfielder.

Henry said he was the best he'd seen play.

Edgar Davids said "i'm not the best, Paul Scholes is"

“He is the one whose level I aspire to. He is the best player in the Premier League.” – Cesc Fabregas
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Interesting how people shite on everything Xavi says, but when he talks about Scholes he is seen as some kind of authority.
 
Schneckerl said:
Interesting how people shite on everything Xavi says, but when he talks about Scholes he is seen as some kind of authority.
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How is that even relevant? People take issue with the fact he moved to Qatar for money. He's very well spoken and intelligent when it comes to football. Anyway, I noticed you single out Xavi when there are literally 20 other top pros who were classed as the very best who said Scholes was one of the best players they'd ever seen. (Zidane, Lippi, Shearer, Henry, Keane etc etc).
 
Steven Gerrard.

A horribly dirty player who was one of the biggest divers British football has ever seen and was a serial bottler. His whole aura is built on an egregious dive v Milan in Istanbul. Without that cheating he would be remembered as an absolute nobody to people outside of Liverpool. His slip is a memorable reminder of his incompetence and bottle costing his team great prizes but it should also be noted he was at fault for England crashing out of the World Cup in 2014 too. Mentally weak.

Sol Campbell would be a shout too. To be fair, most Arsenal players would apply here given the way their fans go on but I can't stand Campbell so he makes the list.

Jorginho is getting there too.
 
Olivier Giroud.

How can opposition fans call him underrated when he went 15 games without scoring a goal, not once but twice is baffling to me. Never scored more than 20 league goals in a season either despite being fed by Mesut Ozil, Cazorla and Sanchez.
 
Pink Moon said:
Steven Gerrard.

A horribly dirty player who was one of the biggest divers British football has ever seen and was a serial bottler. His whole aura is built on an egregious dive v Milan in Istanbul. Without that cheating he would be remembered as an absolute nobody to people outside of Liverpool. His slip is a memorable reminder of his incompetence and bottle costing his team great prizes but it should also be noted he was at fault for England crashing out of the World Cup in 2014 too. Mentally weak.

Sol Campbell would be a shout too. To be fair, most Arsenal players would apply here given the way their fans go on but I can't stand Campbell so he makes the list.

Jorginho is getting there too.
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Couldn't have said it better myself. A very good player and a cult hero for Liverpool fans but outside of that he really wasn't as great as people made him out to be. It says it all when you think of Gerrard and the first thing that comes to mind is him slipping on his arse and costing his team the title. Also, why did nobody in the media ever talk about how much of a cheat he was?
 
iHicksy said:
How is that even relevant? People take issue with the fact he moved to Qatar for money. He's very well spoken and intelligent when it comes to football. Anyway, I noticed you single out Xavi when there are literally 20 other top pros who were classed as the very best who said Scholes was one of the best players they'd ever seen. (Zidane, Lippi, Shearer, Henry, Keane etc etc).
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The "quote method" is the most flawed way of arguing I could think of. It's always something that is used as proof when convenient and easily discounted when it doesn't fit ones view.
Amusing to see.

This doesn't even have anything to do with Scholes, just a general thought.
 
Micah Richards at City/England
Joe Hart at City/England
Gerrrard at Liverpool/England
 
Schneckerl said:
The "quote method" is the most flawed way of arguing I could think of. It's always something that is used as proof when convenient and easily discounted when it doesn't fit ones view.
Amusing to see.

This doesn't even have anything to do with Scholes, just a general thought.
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What....?

So let me get this straight. You think that Quotes from actual pros, who not only are experts in the same field but who played alongside and against Paul Scholes. Of whom, the majority are considered the absolute best in their respective positions, all of which state he was the best is "convenient proof" ?

That's laughable. You don't see the likes of Zizou, Keane etc (midfield greats) praising the likes of Scott Parker, do you?

What else would you like to go on? Medals? Passing accuracy? Important goals scored? He has them all. Discounting it because "quote method" is absurd, it's not like he doesn't have the trophies and performances to back it up.
 
Andersonson said:
Saying he's along With Pele and Maradonna is too far, I agree. They are one of the greatest players ever. Scholes is on the best of his generation. Mentioning him alongside Xavi and Zidane is fine. There's a reason every other player, be it friend of foe says he's one of the best they've ever played with or against. If anything, Scholes is actually underrated imo. He should be seen as good as Xavi.
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Like I said, it's only really United fans who see him in this light. And despite all the quotes, a quick look at how his fellow pros voted in the annual awards, both domestically and in Europe, suggests they didn't rank him that highly either.
 
Gerrard. He was a very good player - but he was made out to be Messi and Ronaldo rolled into a scouse cnut. He was only the latter part of that description.
 
iHicksy said:
Have a word with yourself. Possibly the best passer of the ball of all time. The man who Xavi called the most complete central midfielder.

Henry said he was the best he'd seen play.

Edgar Davids said "i'm not the best, Paul Scholes is"

“He is the one whose level I aspire to. He is the best player in the Premier League.” – Cesc Fabregas

Overrated? Jog on pal.
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Here we go with the quotes :lol:
It was only a matter of time.
I swear you cant have a convo about Scholes without someone posting the same old recycled quotes.

Possibly the best passer of the ball of all time

And this is why i say hes overrated.

Dont even think hes as good a passer as Fabregas,let alone Zidane,Messi,Xavi,Guti,Pogba and co.
 
iHicksy said:
Discounting it because "quote method" is absurd, it's not like he doesn't have the trophies and performances to back it up.
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Do you agree with pro players praising Gerrard?
If yes, then it's fine. You seem consistent in valuing quotes.

I'm not saying Scholes wasn't great - he was... backed up by his performances - the argument used is stupid.

iHicksy said:
I think we have to narrow it down to players that always appear in the top 20 lists of premier league greats. For me, Gerrard wins this hands down. He was only truly dominant for a couple of seasons in his entire career. If you compare him, to say Scholes, Giggs, Keane...these are players who were consistently dominant over their entire careers.
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It seems you don't.

It's impossible you can't possibly see the double standards here.
 
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redman5 said:
Bryan Robson. Won 2 Premier League medals when he was nothing but a bit part player.
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This has to be the craziest post I have seen in Redcafe.net. No exaggeration.

Bryan Robson.. over-rated? Unbelievable.
 
Sauldogba said:
Here we go with the quotes :lol:
It was only a matter of time.
I swear you cant have a convo about Scholes without someone posting the same old recycled quotes.

Possibly the best passer of the ball of all time

And this is why i say hes overrated.

Dont even think hes as good a passer as Fabregas,let alone Zidane,Messi,Xavi,Guti,Pogba and co.
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Think you're a bit too young to remember Paul properly aren't you?

His range of passing was mainly from the middle to wide outlets, as that's how we played. I don't think anybody can match his consistency or weight, flight, range.

His short passing was also very, very good especially once he got a little older and stopped running as much. He could have easily hung with the Spanish lads at Barca.
 
The issue with Scholes and his standing is that many seem to to conflate all eras of his game into one player.

94-97- Young player trying to break through, searching for his best position, long spells on the bench.
98-03-established(but still rotates occasionally with Butt), attacking midfielder with a goal threat, peaks at that in 2002
04-08-Starts to take over the main playmaking responsibilities as Keane is phased out, probably the era that most remember him for, deeper lying, showing off his passing range, fewer goals or direct assists but his style of play was in vogue
09-retirement(s) physical decline, less consistent(there is a reason why he didn't start either of Cl finals against Barca, form had been poor for much of those seasons.

When was Scholes at his best depends on which version you prefer, for myself I would pick the latter version, not going to get the goals but the control he brought was fantastic.
 
diarm said:
So he's a bit of a tosser and a fruitcake but anyone who points that out is unconsciously racist?
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There’s a real nasty, malicious edge to some of the stick Campbell gets. Just read some of the comments on Facebook whenever the BBC posts an article about him.

Plenty of ex players are arrogant and plenty of players talk nonsense but because Campbell has spoken out (accurately imo) about structural racism within the game, he gets some vile abuse.
 
Pow said:
Youre talking nonsense. No one has a good game every match youve literally picked one game where valencia played well. Its as valid as me saying evra was wank because aaron lennon tore him apart game after game. He was one of the best 1 on 1 full backs in the world. Clearly you didnt watch properly. Ashley cole routinely beaten at chelsea what utter bollocks.
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Cole WAS indeed overrated after he moved to Chelsea, initially after being underrated for a bit around 2007. For quite a few seasons he was just coasting on his reputation and being rated as one of the best LBs by default even though he was not really that good any more. After 2006 apart from a while in 2009 he wasn't really as good as Evra at all.

Carrick for me gets so mentioned in 'underrated' threads, he has become overrated IMO. He's a strange case of no doubt being a pivotal figure in our return to success, yet at the same time also fortunate to be the only competent midfielder we signed post Keane. Stick Mascherano in there and we'd have been just as successful if not more so. He's talked about as one of the great passers of our time, but for me his stand out attribute was that defensively he was brilliant but his passing range was not that progressive, passed backwards a lot under pressure and was fortunate that he played in an era where pressing wasn't that widespread in the EPL. Barca exposed him massively though.
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Carrick's range of passing was one of the most important aspects of our team after he joined us and again after 2012 and it is extremely disingenuous and inaccurate to say that he was only good defensively when often enough those who couldn't see the job he was doing argued for the signing of a proper holding midfielder. Be it a parker, martinez or a tiote even after we had signed and seen the decline of Hargreaves. The Gazzetta dello sport headline after we drew against Inter in 09 should tell you why Carrick belongs squarely in the underrated and not overrated category no matter how much any United fan keeps reiterating how underrated he was. Particularly against the backdrop of how shite England were and how much they could have used him.
 
Put this around the office, Zola was a common consensus but also Adam's.

I also had Ledley King mentioned, most likely due to the phenomenon of the injured players stock increasing exponentially the closer he is to a return.
 
RochaRoja said:
Being voted third best player in the world kind of supports the overrated theory doesn’t it? Lampard was never that good.

Parker and Wilshere were overrated for a while but now the majority see them for what they were.
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so his own fellow professionals who voted him don't know what they are on about and can't recognise talent then?
 
You guys are nuts, Lampard and Gerrard were top players.
Both were at their best in almost a no.10 kind of role, physical, strong no.10 who could score goals and defend, absolutely world class midfielders, just not together in a 2 for England.
Both were a couple of levels above Michael Carrick as individuals, let’s not kid ourselves here.
 
Stacks said:
so his own fellow professionals who voted him don't know what they are on about and can't recognise talent then?
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Literally anyone who has ever watched ex-players do punditry knows that a lot of them are as clueless at analysing football as the average bloke on the street. They’re just as likely to overrate players as fans or journalists.

These awards are also voted for by coaches and players all over the world. The African and Asian confederations make up over 100 of the FIFA members, you’re dreaming if you think all the captains and coaches have been watching every game in all the top leagues every week. Most of the votes are just based on who gets the headlines and the best highlight reels.
 
Stacks said:
so his own fellow professionals who voted him don't know what they are on about and can't recognise talent then?
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Fellow professionals also thought Dani Alves was the best RB in the World in 2018 despite barely playing.
Some players just don't follow football enough to have an idea what's going on all the time.
This isn't saying they don't understand which players are good or not, but to understand who was the best player in the World in a certain year you have to follow all top leagues right?

No problem with Lampard, just something that should be considered in general.
 
Schneckerl said:
Fellow professionals also thought Dani Alves was the best RB in the World in 2018 despite barely playing.
Some players just don't follow football enough to have an idea what's going on all the time.
This isn't saying they don't understand which players are good or not, but to understand who was the best player in the World in a certain year you have to follow all top leagues right?

No problem with Lampard, just something that should be considered in general.
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They likely voted for Alves out of sentiment and based on his past reputation when he was the best about. The FIFPRO awards are the best consensus about as to the best players. The idea that forum dwellers with heavily biased opinions somehow know the 'truth' is ludicrous in the extreme.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
They likely voted for Alves out of sentiment and based on his past reputation when he was the best about.
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Yes, that's what I think.

Classical Mechanic said:
The idea that forum dwellers with heavily biased opinions somehow know the 'truth' is ludicrous in the extreme.
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I have no idea how you would come to the conclussion that this is what I've suggested.
Forum dwellers aren't capable of it either.

All I'm saying is players aren't all-knowning. How would they know what's going on if they aren't even following/interested in it?
 
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iHicksy said:
What....?

So let me get this straight. You think that Quotes from actual pros, who not only are experts in the same field but who played alongside and against Paul Scholes. Of whom, the majority are considered the absolute best in their respective positions, all of which state he was the best is "convenient proof" ?

That's laughable. You don't see the likes of Zizou, Keane etc (midfield greats) praising the likes of Scott Parker, do you?

What else would you like to go on? Medals? Passing accuracy? Important goals scored? He has them all. Discounting it because "quote method" is absurd, it's not like he doesn't have the trophies and performances to back it up.
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Zidane said Gerrard was better than Scholes. I'm pretty sure Messi called Gerrard the best English player ever.
 
Schneckerl said:
Yes, that's what I think.


I have no idea how you would come to the conclussion that this is what I've suggested.
Forum dwellers aren't capable of it either.
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I'm not saying that you are suggesting that.

I'm more referring to posters that appear in these type of threads pontificating about how good players were or are as a general point.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I'm not saying that you are suggesting that.

I'm more referring to posters that appear in these type of threads pontificating about how good players were or are as a general point.
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Agreed, fair enough.
I think it's really hard to make XI, ranking or whatever beyond the obvious standouts and it's always highly subjective.
 
Sauldogba said:
Here we go with the quotes :lol:
It was only a matter of time.
I swear you cant have a convo about Scholes without someone posting the same old recycled quotes.

Possibly the best passer of the ball of all time

And this is why i say hes overrated.

Dont even think hes as good a passer as Fabregas,let alone Zidane,Messi,Xavi,Guti,Pogba and co.
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You think Pogba is a better passer of the ball than Scholes? Quite frankly you've just invalidated your already weak argument. No offence, but are you 18 or something? Anyone who has watched Scholes from the early 90's and especially to the end of his career wouldn't make such a ludicrous statement.

Scholes passing range, flight of the ball and accuracy was incredible as was his short game. He very rarely gave the ball away. Taking consistency into account, his passig range towards the end of his time with us was the best i've ever seen. Pogba's long game is good, but it's not a patch on Scholes and his short passing isn't even comparable.
 
So basically people are mentioning players they disliked.

Steven Gerrard was an incredible player and if pogba can be 80 percent of what he was I'd take it
 
Cascarino said:
Zidane said Gerrard was better than Scholes. I'm pretty sure Messi called Gerrard the best English player ever.
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No he didn't. Are you a Liverpool fan by any chance?

What ZZ said was that at his peak Gerrard was the best midfielder in the world, for a time. Whilst he said that Scholes was the best midfielder of the last twenty years. e.g At Gerrards peak he was best, but that peak was short lived. Where as Scholes consistent brilliance was much longer lasting and makes him the better player overall.

And for what it's worth I agree for a year or 2 Gerrard was fantastic and whilst his passing etc wasn't as good as scholes he was the best midfielder for his influence on games and i don't believe Scholes could carry an entire team like Gerrard did during that period. But Scholes is for me, the best and hence not over rated.
 
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