Hiya BernardIf a dog is born in a stable, it doesn't make him a horse.
And if that's your thought process, please see Raheem Sterling xo
Anyway, I look forward to spamming the picture of him kissing the Irish badge every time he lines up for GSTQ. Good riddance.
Declan Rice | Switches international allegiance to England four years ago
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
If a dog is born in a stable, then goes on to have puppies that were also born in that stable, are those puppies horses? How many generations of being born in stables does it take before those puppies become horses? That’s how this analogy works, right?
He won't unless he's a lifelong United fan and we turned his head, all of which is extremely unlikely.
He did cap him in three friendlies and tried to call him up for the proper internationals but Rice wanted to properly decide.
Probably does show the difference in FAs as Welsh one is really good at capping players when they're 17/18....they capped Ethan Ampadu at 17 when England didn't even know he existed apparently and also got David Brooks confirmed after he played for England at the Toulon tournament.
Re: David Brooks - had agreed to play for Wales, called up to wales team for toulon tournament then England came knocking. He withdrew from the wales squad to join England after the wales staff said to him if he had any doubts he should go and play for England. The wales staff apparently told him that he wouldn’t enjoy it as much as training with wales.
Can't blame him to be honest with the state Irish soccer is in at the minute, I just wish he refused an Irish call up in the first place if he is such a "proud Englishman". Asides from that, I'd take him here at United if the price was right, he looks to be a good talent
Ole please buy.
Him and Sancho would be two lovely additions.
Him and Sancho would be two lovely additions.
Dumb post.
In terms of DNA, people from England and Ireland are almost identical. The one difference is that in about 75% of the area of England there were more waves of immigration that left their imprint (Angles, Saxons, etc).
Google it.
All this has done is reaffirm my believe that the whole 'friendlies don't count' thing is nonsense. And that having seen his picture all over the internet in the past week that he has exceedingly shite hair and teeth.
Good player though. Much better than guys like Dier and Henderson so no reason why he can't be a regular in the England side.
Good player though. Much better than guys like Dier and Henderson so no reason why he can't be a regular in the England side.
I don’t think you understood the point of my post.
Great Britain would win so many more world cups than these smaller national teams.
Yeah especially if they merged with a few other nations that have nothing to do with them, France or Brazil maybe, in addition to Ireland.
I wasn't talking about Ireland but let's jump the gun
United should go on the low fat high carb diet. Lukaku swap for Rice...
...I'll see myself out. Thank you and good night.
...I'll see myself out. Thank you and good night.
Really? Aside from Bale and Ramsey, who else from the other British teams would make an England squad? The two Scottish left backs are good but aren’t exactly the difference between being also rans and world champions. Even the Welsh team that got to the Euro 2016 semis was full of English born players that played for Wales because they weren’t good enough to be capped for England.
Maybe after the second World War and England’s entry into the World Cup FIFA should’ve insisted on a UK national team but now it seems very likely the UK will break up then what’s the point?
I think the reason there is such annoyance in Ireland over Rices decision is that there is a growing number of English born players "hedging their bets" by entering the Irish set up.
From an Irish perspective it is a waste of limited resources. Players like Rice take the shirt of a kid, who while may not achieve the same level, would have benefited from those years of training and development.
Those years of training and the underage international experience no doubt aided Rices development.
No problem with Rice declaring for England, best of luck to him, but if you want to play for England, join the queue and fight for your place like the other kids.
The kissing the crest and proud Irishman routine sticks in the throat of most Irish people with an interest in this sport.
From an Irish perspective it is a waste of limited resources. Players like Rice take the shirt of a kid, who while may not achieve the same level, would have benefited from those years of training and development.
Those years of training and the underage international experience no doubt aided Rices development.
No problem with Rice declaring for England, best of luck to him, but if you want to play for England, join the queue and fight for your place like the other kids.
The kissing the crest and proud Irishman routine sticks in the throat of most Irish people with an interest in this sport.
That makes complete sense. Good post.
I think it’s odd that people think stricter restrictions is seen as the solution. For Ireland, liberalising it further would be far more beneficial. Stricter rules on switching allegiances may mean that you could no longer benefit from gaining NI trained players, you’d also attract fewer English born players who don’t want to throw their lot in with Ireland at such a young age and then not have the option of switching.
If FIFA did away with the ruling that players were tied to a nation after a competitive appearance, and instead allowed legitimate dual national players to switch national teams during their careers, it would be great for the smaller nations. It would stop big countries from “cup tying” players for their whole careers by giving them a few minutes in a competitive international.
Under a more liberal ruling, Rice and Grealish would one day be able to return to the Ireland team after either playing successfully for England or not making the impact they had hoped to. If they really do feel equally English and Irish, why shouldn’t that be a possibility?
There is a portion of truth and a portion of bullshit here because let’s be honest the Irish FA do feck all to develop players. We have only been as good as we have in the past through the granny rule and farming our kids off to England at 15/16 to get trained by English club teams. The FAI have no plan for player development at all.
That being said the fecking rice situation is a joke shop, the rules are a farce.
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I think Ireland brought it on themselves.
They spend lots of time researching English players as soon as they enter the academy system about age 8, finding which ones have have Irish lineage and then approach their parents in an effort to exploit any possible affinity they have for Ireland and get them to influence their children to play for Ireland. If these kids then decide when they are older that they want to play for the country they were born, raised and educated in (both academically and in football) then I don’t see why Ireland should feel aggrieved.
Rice may have badged kissed in order to please his father, perhaps he genuinely has split loyalties or maybe he sees his personal ambition better served playing for England. Whatever the case I don’t see why Ireland deserve much sympathy here. Perhaps they would be better looking at Croatia or Uruguay to learn how a small country produces better players rather than relying on English football and the granny rule.
The new reo coker
The FAI have an emerging talent programme which feeds into the youth international teams so from that perspective what they are doing is standard with any other nations.
Where player development falls down and the FAI fail is with developing the Irish league. It is with their clubs that the bulk of player development is done.
This is being some what addressed by moving football to a summer league (forcing talented players to commit to football instead of playing gaelic games in summer and football in winter as things currently stand.)
It is also being addressed by the introduction of academies from U13 upwards in the premier league clubs.
But I take your point Delaney is doing an awful job in the FAI.
I have no problem with kids born/bred in England choosing to play for England. Best of luck to them.
I am explaining the reason for the unhappiness of Irish football supporters is due to players such as Rice and Grealish taking a place on Irish youth development squads and then switching when they recieve a better offer. Either commit or dont but dont take a place on a kid who would stay the course with Ireland.
Whether you perceive it to be right or wrong is irrelevant but at least acknowledge it for what it is.
I am not too excited about this guy yet. Yes, he has had a few good games but the jury is still out for me. I would like to see how he performs in Europe or for England before I would judge him as the Bees knees like most people are doing.
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Maybe he will but unlikely for the same reason. From what I've heard, my understanding of the situation is that his dad is Irish and was extremely proud of his son representing Ireland. It was telling that whenever Rice discussed his conversations with the international managers it was "My dad, my brother and I spoke with Mick/Martin" and "I spoke with Gareth Southgate".
I don't know the family at all but if true, I can completely identify. I am Irish, my kids weren't born there but I would be extremely proud if any of them ever represented Ireland in anything. But, if it was at the expense of being as successful as possible in their chosen career, I would advise against it.
What grates me about all of this is those that oversimplify with "it's obvious now he never wanted to play for Ireland". It is not obvious at all. "He's born in England so he should play for England" is very easy to say when you have a strong economy that doesn't force people abroad to make a better life for their family.
Fact is, at this moment, the Ireland team is absolute dogshit and England have a genuinely fantastic generation of players coming through. It made it an extremely easy choice. A few years ago, it wouldn't have been even nearly as straight forward.
I'm delighted for Rice as an Irishman because it's obvious he's a really top bloke with a mature head on his shoulders who made the right choice. Different to Grealish who seemed like a bit of a bigtime Charlie and no great loss.
We lost Grealish and there was mass suicide yet months later we gained O'Dowda and Callum Robinson - both big talents so it's all good. Same will happen with the Rice thing. Mass suicide initially but we'll probably get someone else foreign born emerging like Ryan Johannson or Marcus Mcguane or whoever.
England have added one more leader to a squad who look ready to get to a world Cup final.
We lost Grealish and there was mass suicide yet months later we gained O'Dowda and Callum Robinson - both big talents so it's all good. Same will happen with the Rice thing. Mass suicide initially but we'll probably get someone else foreign born emerging like Ryan Johannson or Marcus Mcguane or whoever.
England have added one more leader to a squad who look ready to get to a world Cup final.
Ireland pursue these kids through their parents. Blame the FAI and the parents if anyone. I don’t think that Ireland have any legitimate grounds for complaint here, just like England won’t if any of their countless dual nationals switch again (as a number have in the past).
For me these affiliation decisions are often influenced by agents who see the extra money that an England player can attract at contract time. Bale was one who could have played for England and his agent said he tried to talk Bale into it because of the money.
If Foden develops as expected then England can soon have a midfield three of Rice, Winks and Foden. Add that to a frontline of Kane, Sancho, Sterling (and Rashford) and there’s an exciting team.
I'm not Irish or British, but the difference between how the Irish FA operate and how the Welsh FA operate is staggering.
Welsh FA identified Brooks(who imo will be a better player than Rice, all things considered) fairly early and capped him so that he couldn't switch nationality. Irish FA faffed around and lost a good talent.
Similar thing happened with Ampadu.
Welsh FA identified Brooks(who imo will be a better player than Rice, all things considered) fairly early and capped him so that he couldn't switch nationality. Irish FA faffed around and lost a good talent.
Similar thing happened with Ampadu.
Is this guy going to be a top player? We do need someone to replace Matic, preferably sooner rather than later.
We should hang on for another season at least. He also just signed a new 5 year contract, which means he'll be very pricy and West Ham hold all the cards. The only way we would get him is if he refused to train or play and handed in a transfer request.
He will. Even when it looked like Rice was going to play for Ireland, I honestly just couldn't and still can't see what all the fuss is about. He's very average, IMHO.
He’ll be Ireland’s most gifted player at the moment. He’s a good player in the Erdivise. He might kick on to a higher level.
Another excellent game tonight.
I sat down to watch the match tonight to specifically see him and I fell asleep. He got MOTM though, right?
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2/5 long balls interests me. Really, Jordan Henderson's biggest failing for England is that he has poor passing range. If Rice is to replace him then I was hoping that he'd bring that to the table. Looking at his stats he actually makes less accurate long balls than Henderson.
Actually didn't think he deserved motm last night, thought he was quite quiet and was left exposed by West Ham's other midfielders, mainly Noble.
Antonio has a far better game.
But even so still a terrific player.
Antonio has a far better game.
But even so still a terrific player.
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