Germany NT

[do.ob]

Is there another big rebuilding in order or just sacking Low will do the trick?

There has been minor discussion about youth development in the public in recent months, but nothing like a cry for huge reform (aside from Löw, Grindel and perhaps Bierhoff). I think overall Germany is still in a very good spot, we have a strong and deep talent pool and a fair amount of promising or established coaches.
It's not nearly as dire as in the early 2000s. But if you want to be the best you always have to look for ways to improve and France are either very lucky or they are doing better work in their youth department, so hopefully our federation is looking at that behind the scenes.

 

[Sjaakmeoff]

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Just seen that clip from Depay's 2:0. Is that Jerome Boateng at top speed? I mean what the feck?

He didn't injure himself. He was busy pulling his socks up. Cause you gotta look good right?

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And that's not the first time it hurt them. (june against Sweden where Toivonen scored)

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[Ban]

There has been minor discussion about youth development in the public in recent months, but nothing like a cry for huge reform (aside from Löw, Grindel and perhaps Bierhoff). I think overall Germany is still in a very good spot, we have a strong and deep talent pool and a fair amount of promising or established coaches.
It's not nearly as dire as in the early 2000s. But if you want to be the best you always have to look for ways to improve and France are either very lucky or they are doing better work in their youth department, so hopefully our federation is looking at that behind the scenes.

How come Low still hasn't been sacked. After the WC I mean?
I guess he'll be sacked now or people at DFB don't think so which is strange?

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

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Just seen that clip from Depay's 2:0. Is that Jerome Boateng at top speed? I mean what the feck?

Can you imagine if we'd spunked £60m on him this summer? Some thought he'd be worth it! Lad is completely done.

 

[do.ob]

How come Low still hasn't been sacked. After the WC I mean?
I guess he'll be sacked now or people at DFB don't think so which is strange?

Who really knows.. His contract was extended until 2022 right before the tournament, so I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't want to look like fools for sacking him a couple of weeks later. More legitimate reasons might be that Löw has done consistently well and shown a willingness to adapt tactically, I wouldn't have put it past him to turn things around himself, but at the moment it looks like more of the same, or even worse: he's rotating Kimmich, who imho was one of the bright spots into midfield, so he can play the mediocre Ginter, Müller still gets to start and Werner plays left wing.

 

[hasanejaz88]

He didn't injure himself. He was busy pulling his socks up. Cause you gotta look good right?

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And that's not the first time it hurt them. (june against Sweden where Toivonen scored)

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While for the Sweden goal it does look like he is pulling his Socks, I don't think that's the case for the Dutch goal. He clearly looks like he injured himself, as evident by the fact that he has withdrawn from the squad. He saw limping as he was trying to get to Promes.

 

[Ban]

Why not both?

Well that's what I'm asking. Is German football in some kind of crisis or it's just a coach thing.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

He didn't injure himself.

He did. Around the 70 minute mark or so. But Germany had used all their subs already so Boateng had to stay on even though he could barely run.

 

[Borussin]

Well that's what I'm asking. Is German football in some kind of crisis or it's just a coach thing.

It's not a crisis. The talent is there, but there is a complacancy within the squad as far as I can see. There needs to be tough decisions made with players who have been part of the squad for a long time but are not performing. Löw seems to have a few favourites, and that is never a good thing.

I would love to see Germany now follow up with their idea from the confederations cup team, where they did use a far younger squad, and combine that idea with the squad now.

There are plenty of really good experienced players still with much to give like Hummels, Kroos, Gundogan, Reus, Neuer etc. And the likes of Draxler, Werner and Kimmich, young playres but already with decent experience would very much be part of it moving forward.

But it's time to make players like Brandt, Sane, Havertz, Schulz, Gnabry, Max, Sule, Eggerstein to name a few, regular part of these teams - actually playing games, not just sitting on the bench for show. And yes, a couple of those names haven't even been called up yet, it's time they where.

If Löw isn't willing to make those tough decisons regarding sitting or dropping the big personalities, then time to get a coach who will.

 

[Gasolin]

That Low's "new start" has failed and it's getting worse instead of better.

What I wonder is why they are calling it a 0-3 defeat in an away game and not a 3-0 defeat. Must be a German thing.

We actually looked worse against the Germans than against France and the scoreline and story of the game flattered us, but for the Germans it may be a blessing in disguise if it leads to change.

Still, I wouldn't mind a manager so bad (according to some German fans here) for our team that he merely won a WC with the Dutch...

They are away, so it's home team / away team for the score line. Maybe you are based in the US, they say it the other way around in the US.

 

[FootballHQ]

What's most concerning is how vulnerable they look on the counter. Long before Holland scored the last two goals, they caught Germany several times on the break.
Holland weren't great but with better decisions on the break it could have been 4/5/6.

Haven't seen highlights of game but interesting that they are still struggling with their shape on counter attacks. Mexico ripped them apart in the first half of the first world cup game and then South Korea pretty much did the same in the last game (although of course Germany were pushing forward to score).

I think a problem is losing real leaders like Schweinsteiger, Klose and Lahm since 2014. Not just the best players in the team but good around the squad with their experience. Mertesacker probably fits into that category even if he was more a squad player.

Even the best teams struggle if leadership disappears all in one go. With respect likes of Hummels and Boateng aren't that type imo.

 

[el3mel]

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[belanglos]

we can't even whitewash our game. we played like augsburg did against dortmund. kinda successful, yet very passive. our first penalty was just, the one against us wasn't, I still didn't love our game. We had a few good chances, because France did not anticipate our play, but it still wasn't our game. We were at least on par with France, that sadly does not make our game a good one. United fans should know :-(

I didn't like the S11 and I didn't like the subs. France was not better, still we were disappointing.

 

[Charles Miller]

we can't even whitewash our game. we played like augsburg did against dortmund. kinda successful, yet very passive. our first penalty was just, the one against us wasn't, I still didn't love our game. We had a few good chances, because France did not anticipate our play, but it still wasn't our game. We were at least on par with France, that sadly does not make our game a good one. United fans should know :-(

I didn't like the S11 and I didn't like the subs. France was not better, still we were disappointing.

French generation is far better.

 

[NYAS]

we can't even whitewash our game. we played like augsburg did against dortmund. kinda successful, yet very passive. our first penalty was just, the one against us wasn't, I still didn't love our game. We had a few good chances, because France did not anticipate our play, but it still wasn't our game. We were at least on par with France, that sadly does not make our game a good one. United fans should know :-(

I didn't like the S11 and I didn't like the subs. France was not better, still we were disappointing.

France had a better second half than Germany’s first half.

 

[belanglos]

French generation is far better.

far better? no - I think ppl in Europe just don't know our "young" generation yet. Eggestein, Maier, Anton, Süle, Tah, Werner, Sané. Brandt, Havertz. Kimmich, Müller(Goalie),Max(ok Max is not young, still our best prospect) ... We have ppl that are on par with top class players. Löw just does not use them. We need a real 9 like Lukaku, but Werner isn't that far off. Draxler, Reus, Kroos, Müller are still young enough to play a good Euro, only our CBs seem to lack speed, and with Süle and Tah we have great talents to follow Hummels and Boateng. I don't see the French "generation" as better. They have Mbappe but what talents are really better compared to Eggestein, Sane, Havertz, Brandt, Süle, Tah, Kimmich? No French player is younger or better except Mbappe.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

The most important German players who won the WC are either retired, past it or out of form.
The younger players are not good enough (Kimmich and Reus aside), there lies the German problem.

 

[RW2]

The most important German players who won the WC are either retired, past it or out of form.
The younger players are not good enough (Kimmich and Reus aside), there lies the German problem.

The talent is there. This is, after all, Germany.

The manager is completely clueless, and always was.

 

[Loublaze]

How did Leroy Sane do? Anyone that watched the full match

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

The talent is there. This is, after all, Germany.

The manager is completely clueless, and always was.

Germany went through periods of lesser teams and generations before.
All national teams went through those periods, even Brazil, let alone Germany.
Not saying the manager is faultless, but that’s not the only issue they have.

 

[RW2]

Germany went through periods of lesser teams and generations before.
All national teams went through those periods, even Brazil, let alone Germany.
Not saying the manager is faultless, but that’s not the only issue they have.

The last time Germany went through a period of a "lesser team" they got to the World Cup final in 2002.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

The last time Germany went through a period of a "lesser team" they got to the World Cup final in 2002.

They also couldn’t make it ouf of 2 Euro groups and were dismantled by Croatia in the WC in 98, they’ve also had an incredibly easy route to the finals in 2002.
We both know this team is not a patch on the 2014 one, your dislike for the manager is stronger than your ability to objectively evaluate this group of players.

 

[GhastlyHun]

How did Leroy Sane do? Anyone that watched the full match

Good and bad. Played a bad pass instead of shooting when he was through with only Lloris ahead of him. Passed it back when Schulz won back a ball and flicked it to him in the area.
Nevertheless our attack has looked the most dangerous in months with him on the pitch together with Werner and Gnabry. These guys are really fast and they managed to use their speed for attacks and counter attacks again and again.
3 out of Sané, Werner, Gnabry, and Brandt simply have to play. They are still not working together perfectly, but that was, if i'm not mistaken, after all the first match they started together, which in itself is criminal.

 

[Needham]

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He so wants to move that finger up under his nose but knows the cameras are watching.

 

[sun_tzu]

They deserve that for their coach's disgusting habits alone. He has a contract till 2022. Any chance he gets the boot?

probably and walks straight into Old trafford when we sack jose... ... fire frying pan etc

 

[PedroMendez]

They also couldn’t make it ouf of 2 Euro groups and were dismantled by Croatia in the WC in 98, they’ve also had an incredibly easy route to the finals in 2002.
We both know this team is not a patch on the 2014 one, your dislike for the manager is stronger than your ability to objectively evaluate this group of players.

Thats a fair statement. While the individual quality of the squad is lacking in some areas, its still a good team. It might not have the quality to match the top3 teams in the world man for man, but is easily on par with the teams than follow after that.

Only a horrible manager crashes out of the last WC group and goes on a unprecedented losing streak. His tactics are off (nothing new) and he insisted to start players, who havn't performed in years. I am not a huge fan of complaining about mentality, because usually thats just a standard talking point when nobody really knows what the problem is. Yet beyond tactics and selection, this German team has a serious attitude problem. Everyone sugarcoats the collective and individual shortcomings; there was an arrogance around the team in the sense of that they took success for granted; they seem genuinly baffled why they keep losing. Its all cuddly feel-good bullshit without any competitiveness. This team needs a reality check and individuals need to be held accountable. This has to start with the manager. The DFB is not going to do that. The players themselves are not going to do it. Usually I'd expect the media to ramp up the pressure and question the manager. Yet they are still so deep up his arse, that they probably need another catastrophic tournament before contemplating to question him.

 

[Adisa]

Thats a fair statement. While the individual quality of the squad is lacking in some areas, its still a good team. It might not have the quality to match the top3 teams in the world man for man, but is easily on par with the teams than follow after that.

Only a horrible manager crashes out of the last WC group and goes on a unprecedented losing streak. His tactics are off (nothing new) and he insisted to start players, who havn't performed in years. I am not a huge fan of complaining about mentality, because usually thats just a standard talking point when nobody really knows what the problem is. Yet beyond tactics and selection, this German team has a serious attitude problem. Everyone sugarcoats the collective and individual shortcomings; there was an arrogance around the team in the sense of that they took success for granted; they seem genuinly baffled why they keep losing. Its all cuddly feel-good bullshit without any competitiveness. This team needs a reality check and individuals need to be held accountable. This has to start with the manager. The DFB is not going to do that. The players themselves are not going to do it. Usually I'd expect the media to ramp up the pressure and question the manager. Yet they are still so deep up his arse, that they probably need another catastrophic tournament before contemplating to question him.

All you've said is natural when a manager is at the helm for 12 years and counting.

 

[hasanejaz88]

They also couldn’t make it ouf of 2 Euro groups and were dismantled by Croatia in the WC in 98, they’ve also had an incredibly easy route to the finals in 2002.
We both know this team is not a patch on the 2014 one, your dislike for the manager is stronger than your ability to objectively evaluate this group of players.

You want to credit Low for this performance but then ask yourself why the hell it took him 3 matches, one of them a 3-0 defeat, to realize that he should be starting players like Sane and Sule (he maybe wouldn't have started had Boateng not been injured), after the World Cup debacle? Muller was continued to be persisted with despite his poor form for club and country and Brandt, one of the only players to have a respectable World Cup, is still ignored.

While our players aren't as good as they were in 2014, no one is expecting them to win the World Cup, I would've been satisfied with a quaterfinal exit to big side. But in no way is our team not good enough to make it out of a group with S.Korea, Mexico and Sweden. After that, we are now on the verge of being relegated from the top tier of European teams as well. Are you saying that our players aren't good enough for that as well?

There have been clear tactical and personnel mistakes throughout this year and plenty of fans have pointed them out. Yet Low is still arrogantly sticking to his ideals and not showing any signs of being able to take our new younger generation of players (who won the Confed Cup and the U-21 Euro championship) forward. That is simply why he needs to go, too many of our younger players are being wasted because of his favouritism to older players.

 

[PedroMendez]

All you've said is natural when a manager is at the helm for 12 years and counting.

Yes. That's why he should be sacked. At some point teams simply need a new manager who shakes things up.
All of that has been out in the open for a long time. He should have quit after winning the WC and the DFB should have sacked him multiple times. The last occasion was after EC2018.

There is this idealised version of him out there in the media, where everything was perfect till ~2016. Yet that's just bullshit.
He made quite gigantic mistakes in various tournaments in the past, that did harm the team. 2012 against Italy is the most obvious example of horrible decision making, but there are so many other ones.

 

[izec]

I think Ed is running the DFB. Löw should have been sacked a long time ago. We will only know if these group of players are good enough if he gets the sack, they are going backwards. I think they have a lot of talented youngsters coming soon and Löw should be sacked to make room for a new manager to form a new young and hungry team (with some experienced and still good players). He will always nominate and hold onto his favourites, while shoehorning/leaving out the others. Time for a change.

 

[Borussin]

The most important German players who won the WC are either retired, past it or out of form.
The younger players are not good enough (Kimmich and Reus aside), there lies the German problem.

Reus isn't a young player these days, he's been around a while!

Brandt, Sane, Havertz, Werner, Kimmich are all really good players. Players like Kehrer, Schulz, Draxler, Gnabry, Goretzka, Sule are young enough and very much good enough too. They have a goalie in ter Stegen who is only 26, but one of the very best around. There are others too who haven't been called up yet, but probably should be. The basis is there, but will the coach be brave enough to go all in with a group of younger players. I don't think he will. So that is actually the problem, not the talent. The talent is there to move forward.

 

[horsechoker]

I think Ed is running the DFB. Löw should have been sacked a long time ago. We will only know if these group of players are good enough if he gets the sack, they are going backwards. I think they have a lot of talented youngsters coming soon and Löw should be sacked to make room for a new manager to form a new young and hungry team (with some experienced and still good players). He will always nominate and hold onto his favourites, while shoehorning/leaving out the others. Time for a change.

I think he's waiting until Champions League qualification becomes impossible

 

[Zehner]

They also couldn’t make it ouf of 2 Euro groups and were dismantled by Croatia in the WC in 98, they’ve also had an incredibly easy route to the finals in 2002.
We both know this team is not a patch on the 2014 one, your dislike for the manager is stronger than your ability to objectively evaluate this group of players.

It is simply not that far in it's developmemt. The players themselves are probably even more talented than the 2014 team, especially the attacking ones. Talentwise Brandt, Sane and Havertz can compete with any German player of the last 10-15 years except of probably Götze.

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

I got a sneaky feeling Wenger might replace Low in november. Arséne has talked about coming back to management soon.

 

[Loublaze]

Good and bad. Played a bad pass instead of shooting when he was through with only Lloris ahead of him. Passed it back when Schulz won back a ball and flicked it to him in the area.
Nevertheless our attack has looked the most dangerous in months with him on the pitch together with Werner and Gnabry. These guys are really fast and they managed to use their speed for attacks and counter attacks again and again.
3 out of Sané, Werner, Gnabry, and Brandt simply have to play. They are still not working together perfectly, but that was, if i'm not mistaken, after all the first match they started together, which in itself is criminal.

Thank you

 

[Keeps It tidy]

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[el3mel]

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Great move that.

 

[Zehner]

Think it is the right thing to do. Especially Hummels probably still has it in him but at the time of the next WC, there'll probably quite a few players ahead of him. Better give them time now to get to play together instead of being to focused on the here and now. Müller shouldn't have been anywhere near this squad in the last 2-3 years anyway.

Part of the reason our squad was that good in the last decade was that the generation before them was rather weak. So many players like Özil, Müller, Kroos, Schweinsteiger and so forth were trusted from an very early age onwards which allowed them to develop. I think the new generation around Sane, Havertz, Brandt, Kimmich, Süle, Tah, Werner, Gnabry and so forth is just as talented but they need the same trust now. At the WC 2022, I hope for something like this:


--Sane-------Werner-------Gnabry-
-----------Brandt--Havertz----------
--------------Kimmich---------------
-Goretzka---Süle--Tah-----Kehrer--
--------------Ter Stegen-------------


Depending on how Arp develops, he could also become a contender for the striker spot with Werner moving to the right wing. Unfortuntely, the FBs are still improvised. The one great weakness this team has. Maybe playing Weigl there, Kimmich at RB and Kehrer at LB could work.

 

[hasanejaz88]

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I agree with Muller and Boateng because they aren't performing for club as well but Hummels is a bit strict because he's so been good for Bayern and can perform well for the NT.

Also, I know that Sule can easily come into the starting line up, and should have earlier, but who will be the second starter in place of Hummels? I'm sure Loew is thinking of Rudiger but I hope he doesn't because I don't think he's good enough to be a starter.

Another option would be Tah but I think he's too young and raw right now, Leverkusen haven't exactly been consistent defensively and he doesn't have a lot of exposure at international level. Another one would be Kehrer but I'm not sure he can work in a back 2.

Low may go with a 3-5-2 with Kehrer, Sule, Rudiger at the back and Kimmich, Schultz in the wing back positions.

But I appreciate that he is finally moving away from the 2014 generation, many of whom are either past it or don't have the motivation to win more.

 

[R.N7]

"This is everybody's fault but mine"