How much of Ole's success is Mourinho's?

[Red Comet]

First of, I want to be clear that I'm one who was strongly against Mourinho's appointment. In fact, I had not been posting ever since he was made manager, not even when we won the "treble". To me, Mourinho is the
antithesis of what Man Utd is, and I'm relieved as anyone when he was finally sacked.

Our recent victories where we won with less possession and less shots has elicit a lot of comments on the irony of it, that Ole's team are more success at Mourinho's football than Mourinho is at Utd.

This struck me - how much of the current defensive organisation and solidity is down to Mourinho, which Ole inherited?

Case in point, when Roberto Martinez took over Everton from Moyes back in 2013, his first season was seen as a huge success. Everton while still being solid defensively, which is a hallmark of Moyes' reign, were now also good at moving the ball forward. Everton finished that season above us for the 1st time ever since EPL started. I remembered people also using this to deride Moyes for holding Everton back (given how shite Moyes were for us during that season).

However subsequently, Martinez's Everton began to fall apart in the following seasons. It soon became apparent that Martinez has inherited a team that was very well drilled in defensive play by Moyes. Once the Martinez has fully changed Everton to his style, it was very clear that his Everton were an exact mirror of Martinez's Wigan - exciting going forward but porous at the back.

So this comes back to my title - how much of our current defensive play is down to the remnants of Mourinho's training? Will Ole be truly tested (god damn I hate myself for typing this) once he has a full preseason with the team?

 

[charlenefan]

Fecking zero

 

[dmode]

Ole - Mourinho = Attacking football + Simplicity + Trust + Belief + Positivity

I still can't believe it how a team can change in so little time!

I am not superstitious and I don't believe in miracles, but this is one thing that I cannot explain.

 

[Earthquake]

None.

 

[KM]

Zero

 

[Andersons Dietician]

None of it, the defence plays and is structured in a completely different way to how Jose had it set. Ole has even said after the previous Arsenal game they spent a lot of time working on the defensive structure,and now they play much higher up the pitch and even when we are under the cosh it sits higher. If anything there is less of us sitting back to invite pressure on.

A reason why our possession stats probably don’t look as great is because we don’t tend to hold the ball that well, I figure it’s by design as we tend to play 2 or 3 passes and get it up the pitch as quick as possible. To me we are and play in a completely different manner from the Jose team.

 

[Phil]

Fecking zero

First reply and the thread is done

 

[Oldyella]

This thread will be interesting..

 

[Massive Spanner]

Absolute zilch.

Also, our defensive record under Ole is miles better than under Mourinho.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I'd say a decent amount but not significant enough.

Can't imagine us pulling off a Pogba signing without someone like Jose in charge.

Lindelof started being good at the end of Jose's reign too.

We were not the only ones interested in Lukaku, so Jose might have a hand there as well.

At least from a squad point of view, he deserves credit.

From a footballing point of view, not so much.

 

[tenpoless]

How much of Moyes' failure was Sir Alex's?
None.

Why is this even a question when there's a stark contrast between the two?
Yes, you inherited players as a manager but ultimately where things will go depend on you.

 

[pascell]

None. If we had been solid defensively like last season under Mourinho this season, I'd have said he enabled Ole to focus more on the attacking aspect, this wasn't the case.

We're getting plaudits for how well we've attacked under Ole, imo we've been just as good defensively.

 

[AfroBuffalo]

Maybe some of the tracking back he did with the players, as Mourinho spent so much time on that aspect it must be instilled in them more than it would have been without him here; which is a good trait to have (attacking players tracking back when needed to)

But, I'm being kind.

Probably nothing; he left us broken.

 

[Adisa]

The only thing I will say is that Mourinho built a decent team even though he was the number one culprit of shitting on it.
I had been saying for 18 months that we had the second best squad in the country, to much ridicule. Even though Ole has been outstanding, I don't think we are massively outperforming the talent let that's available to us.

 

[roonster09]

Zero and that's being generous. If not I would say some number in negative.

 

[AaronRedDevil]

Well. He brought us pogba and lukaku.

 

[BigBebe]

Close this thread before you ruin everyone's Friday.

 

[Pearson]

He is the one who took United backword.

He contributed less than zero, of course.

 

[Paxi]

He brought in Lindelöf, Lukaku and played Marcus Rashford a fair bit. That's his contribution.

 

[Coxy]

Fecking zero

First post nails it

 

[Twins]

This thread needs more zero.

 

[SqueakyWeasel]

First of, I want to be clear that I'm one who was strongly against Mourinho's appointment. In fact, I had not been posting ever since he was made manager, not even when we won the "treble". To me, Mourinho is the
antithesis of what Man Utd is, and I'm relieved as anyone when he was finally sacked.

Our recent victories where we won with less possession and less shots has elicit a lot of comments on the irony of it, that Ole's team are more success at Mourinho's football than Mourinho is at Utd.

This struck me - how much of the current defensive organisation and solidity is down to Mourinho, which Ole inherited?

Case in point, when Roberto Martinez took over Everton from Moyes back in 2013, his first season was seen as a huge success. Everton while still being solid defensively, which is a hallmark of Moyes' reign, were now also good at moving the ball forward. Everton finished that season above us for the 1st time ever since EPL started. I remembered people also using this to deride Moyes for holding Everton back (given how shite Moyes were for us during that season).

However subsequently, Martinez's Everton began to fall apart in the following seasons. It soon became apparent that Martinez has inherited a team that was very well drilled in defensive play by Moyes. Once the Martinez has fully changed Everton to his style, it was very clear that his Everton were an exact mirror of Martinez's Wigan - exciting going forward but porous at the back.

So this comes back to my title - how much of our current defensive play is down to the remnants of Mourinho's training? Will Ole be truly tested (god damn I hate myself for typing this) once he has a full preseason with the team?

Why would you even want to do this to yourself?

 

[Bestofthebest]

The biggest change Ole has made to Jose's defence tactics is stopping all the possession and square/back passing by the back four. Yes, there is still an element of this at times but we are more likely to move the ball forward much quicker now and with a bit more purpose. This is particularly true with Matic who hardly ever looked for a forward pass under Jose.
I know this is true because I don't spend half my time yelling at the tv for us to get the ball forward and stop the bl**dy back passing.

 

[Red_Beans]

Ole inherited a better squad than Mourinho did. That's about it

 

[Nr.7]

A lot!
Jose had the right tactics, trening and approach, but not the players trust and confidence for some reason.

Ole brought back the confidence, but is benefiting from Mourinhos work.

That’s why the real test is the start of next season when Ole has a preseason with his ideas. Then we’ll see how good Ole actually is and everything I just said is bullsh!t.

 

[MuranoLover]

Close this stupid thread

 

[amolbhatia50k]

This thread

If anything our defence began improvement under LVG. Let's credit him with Ole's terrific results too. Fecksake.

 

[Sauldogba]

Well he brought in Dalot,Lindelof,Pogba,Fred and Lukaku so thats something he should be credited with. He also helped develop Rashford and Mctominay
People may not like the man and whilst he drastically underachived during his tenure here he has built a pretty good squad with strength and depth that is possibly one or two signings away from a serious title challenge and dare i say it success in europe.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

A lot!
Jose had the right tactics, trening and approach, but not the players trust and confidence for some reason.

Ole brought back the confidence, but is benefiting from Mourinhos work.

That’s why the real test is the start of next season when Ole has a preseason with his ideas. Then we’ll see how good Ole actually is and everything I just said is bullsh!t.

Jose Mourinho did not have the right tactics and approach which, combined with his woeful man management and leadership, is why he was sacked.

 

[BULB]

The only certain thing is if we have any success Jose will claim he made Rashford, Martial, Lindelof etc etc into the players they are, he taught them to be mentally tough blah blah blah.

 

[The No.10!]

Improved defense? Umm, have we forgotten the season before 19 December?

 

[AfroBuffalo]

A lot!
Jose had the right tactics, trening and approach, but not the players trust and confidence for some reason.

Ole brought back the confidence, but is benefiting from Mourinhos work.

That’s why the real test is the start of next season when Ole has a preseason with his ideas. Then we’ll see how good Ole actually is and everything I just said is bullsh!t.

 

[Nr.7]

Jose Mourinho did not have the right tactics and approach which, combined with his woeful man management and leadership, is why he was sacked.

Please, read the whole post.

 

[SteveJ]

Oh God, it's the return of 'He built the foundations!'
*blubs*

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Oh God, it's the return of 'He built the foundations!'
*blubs*

That's what I was thinking

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Jose had a good group of players, but somehow convinced a lot of people that they were shit, because he had no idea on how to set them up.

Ole has dispelled the myth along with his coaching team.

 

[Mourinhonista]

Maybe it's similar to Real Madrid when Ancelotti took over. Mourinho build a very good squad but at some point couldn't get the best out of it. I think Mourinho has got a brilliant mind and while listening you learn amazing stuff, but there's also a very annoying side to him which can make for a tough work environment.

I for one think it was good to have Mourinho here, we've had one big money flop aka Sanchez, otherwise the future looks very bright.

 

[harms]

Quite a bit in terms of transfers. Pretty much nothing in terms of coaching and tactics.

 

[breakout67]

Player recruitment and that's it. Mourinho inherited a squad full of dross that needed to be improved. Ole inherited a squad that had plenty of good players underperforming. Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, Lindelof, Dalot are all vital members of our team now, his man management is shocking but he knows how to build a team.

 

[Livewire1974]

Good to see Jose is posting threads here.