Ellis Simms

[11101]

Everton youth player. Currently outscoring Mason Greenwood and everyone else in the U18 Premier League by a considerable margin.

Whats the view on him for those who follow the youth teams in England? The next Rooney?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

From what I've heard he's a very big lad that shouldn't really be playing at that level. He's from Oldham and was at City. He hasn't played for England and I don't think he's as highly rated as his scoring record would suggest.

It will be interesting to see if his career progresses.

 

[RedSky]

They've got some very good players coming through and none of them have even made an appearance on the bench for Everton this season. Going to be a problem for their development.

 

[Kostur]

Apparently if you let him into pool and remove the pool-ladder he'll keep swimming around the pool until he dies.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

He’s now scored 27 goals in 17 u18 games and 41 in 33 in all comps.

It’s curious that such a prolific scorer who is so physically large is being kept at that level.

 

[Ducklegs]

Hes taking his chances, but he wouldnt be getting those chances against physically similar players, he is literally just running through players.

 

[RC89]

I wonder if it's just because he's big and physically too much for the young defenders he's coming up against. If so, that advantage will be largely neutralised once in professional level footie.

 

[khoazany]

Everton youth player. Currently outscoring Mason Greenwood and everyone else in the U18 Premier League by a considerable margin.

Whats the view on him for those who follow the youth teams in England? The next Rooney?

He's not that good. Got a trial at us after leaving City and we didn't take him in.

 

[yumtum]

Clearly no good him still playing u18 football when he's already 18 and knocking that many goals in, why not test him at u23 football at least?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Should get his England debut in a few days. Youthhawk claim these are his numbers.

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[yumtum]

Is Bobby Duncan rated higher than our Greenwood?

 

[Spiersey]

Is Bobby Duncan rated higher than our Greenwood?

No, not at all.

 

[yumtum]

No, not at all.

Okay, just heard a fair bit about him last year when he moved from City!

Crazy record by Simms though!

 

[Spiersey]

Okay, just heard a fair bit about him last year when he moved from City!

Crazy record by Simms though!

Duncan’s stats been excellent this season but it’s clear watching both that Greenwood is a much bigger talent (certainly to me anyway)
Expect Pool fans to massively overstate Bobby though given than he plays for them and he’s Gerrard cousin.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Bobby Duncan has a lot of Gerrard's drive but technically he's miles off Greenwood. He's short stocky and determined. He just strikes me as a player that won't do much at the top level. Apparently Duncan is looking to leave Liverpool now too.

 

[AltiUn]

Bobby Duncan has a lot of Gerrard's drive but technically he's miles off Greenwood. He's short stocky and determined. He just strikes me as a player that won't do much at the top level. Apparently Duncan is looking to leave Liverpool now too.

Why’s he looking to leave so soon?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Why’s he looking to leave so soon?

Pathways etc.

 

[AltiUn]

Pathways etc.

That's fair, any idea where he might be heading?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

That's fair, any idea where he might be heading?

It was in The Mail. They reckon he's considering a move abroad but it was light on detail. Unhappy with being kept in the u18s all season.

 

[In Rainbows]

The thing with these records is that it only covers this season. So even if you just look at the totality of the stats, Greenwood comes out on top.

At u18 level

Greenwood - 34 goals 9 assists in 34 matches
Simms - 41 goals 3 assists in 44 matches
Duncan - 23 goals 8assists in 26 matches
Balogun - 38 goals 7 assists in 41 matches
Whittaker - 31 goals 13 assists in 51 matches

Then you look at age

Greenwood - 17 years old October
Simms - 18 years old January
Duncan - 17 years old June
Balogun - 17 years old July
Whittaker - 18 years old January

Then you look at technique, and Greenwood comes out on top. Of course, if that's not enough evidence you could look at u19 level and u23 level.

 

[lysglimt]

What is most impressive about Greenwood is that in many games he drops deep to get involved - and he even has the quality to do that successfully.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The thing with these records is that it only covers this season. So even if you just look at the totality of the stats, Greenwood comes out on top.

At u18 level

Greenwood - 34 goals 9 assists in 34 matches
Simms - 41 goals 3 assists in 44 matches
Duncan - 23 goals 8assists in 26 matches
Balogun - 38 goals 7 assists in 41 matches
Whittaker - 31 goals 13 assists in 51 matches

Then you look at age

Greenwood - 17 years old October
Simms - 18 years old January
Duncan - 17 years old June
Balogun - 17 years old July
Whittaker - 18 years old January

Then you look at technique, and Greenwood comes out on top. Of course, if that's not enough evidence you could look at u19 level and u23 level.

Also that Simms only played 3 u23 matches and failed to register in any of them. Strange that someone so prolific wasn't fancied to step up.

 

[roonster09]

The thing with these records is that it only covers this season. So even if you just look at the totality of the stats, Greenwood comes out on top.

At u18 level

Greenwood - 34 goals 9 assists in 34 matches
Simms - 41 goals 3 assists in 44 matches
Duncan - 23 goals 8assists in 26 matches
Balogun - 38 goals 7 assists in 41 matches
Whittaker - 31 goals 13 assists in 51 matches

Then you look at age

Greenwood - 17 years old October
Simms - 18 years old January
Duncan - 17 years old June
Balogun - 17 years old July
Whittaker - 18 years old January

Then you look at technique, and Greenwood comes out on top. Of course, if that's not enough evidence you could look at u19 level and u23 level.

Thank you for the stats. Haven't watched any of them play except Greenwood, so all others are highy rated players too?

 

[André Dominguez]

I wonder if it's just because he's big and physically too much for the young defenders he's coming up against. If so, that advantage will be largely neutralised once in professional level footie.

That actually has little to do with physical advantage, but more that professionals know better how to use their strength and balance. Because most of the center backs are also big lads at U18.

 

[Rozay]

I’ve seen Simms play live once, against us I believe, so I don’t purport to be an expert at all - but I do think the modern analytical football fan has an instinctive habit of inverting someone’s other qualities when they have an extreme one.

Like, as soon as it was obvious Dan James could run very, very fast - it automatically worked against him as an actual technical footballer. Everyone started questioning his ability and implied he was a limited footballer. Over recent years, as soon as a full-back showed top offensive ability, they automatically became a defensive liability, and a player like Ellis Simms, or that Brobbey centre-forward playing for Holland at U17 are obviously big and strong - they become average footballers too.

Not sure if this applies to Simms on this occasion, but there is a haste to profile people. Without wanting to drag out the whole ‘big and black’ debate again, I’ve seen the same happen a few times. It took a while and a fair bit of explanation by those who actually watch the player to establish on here that Koulibaly was actually technically very good on the ball. I remember calling someone on it in the thread that announced we had signed Bailly. Someone, who doubtless had never watched him, said ‘excellent, now we just need a defender who is good on the ball to partner him’. When I asked why they assumed Bailly himself was not good on the ball, as he actually is, they didn’t really have anything to say.

Apologies for the tangent, as I said, I’m no expert on Simms, I just found the reference to his size in relation to his technical ability so predictable. May be perfectly justified on this occasion.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Apologies for the tangent, as I said, I’m no expert on Simms, I just found the reference to his size in relation to his technical ability so predictable. May be perfectly justified on this occasion.

He's mixed race and is compared unfavorably technically to Greenwood who is also mixed race so I don't see any merit in that idea.

I actually compared Bobby Duncan unfavorably to Greenwood technically and he's white. There isn't much discussion on Simms's technical ability.

Some of his finishing has been pretty tasty this season in fact


That said, it curious that such a prolific player at 18 has played so little u23 football. The 3 games he has played in he hasn't scored.

In that age group physicality can give you a distinct advantage, simply because a lot of the players are still growing. There have been any players that were similar. Connor Wickham, 2010 U17 Euros best player for example.

 

[Rozay]

He's mixed race and is compared unfavorably technically to Greenwood who is also mixed race so I don't see any merit in that idea.

I actually compared Bobby Duncan unfavorably to Greenwood technically and he's white. There isn't much discussion on Simms's technical ability.

Some of his finishing has been pretty tasty this season in fact


That said, it curious that such a prolific player at 18 has played so little u23 football. The 3 games he has played in he hasn't scored.

In that age group physicality can give you a distinct advantage, simply because a lot of the players are still growing. There have been any players that were similar. Connor Wickham, 2010 U17 Euros best player for example.

As I said, my post was more general and not based on my personal opinion of Simms. And I didn’t say you were making a racial by the way, I know you wasn’t.

I just think people tend to invertly criticise the ‘opposite’ quality of a player if they are strong at one thing. It’s not an exclusively racial issue by any means, that was a tangent on my part. I think the better Declan Rice gets defensively, the worse he gets on the ball, for instance.

 

[Ali Dia]

He looks like he could go on to play at a very high level if things go his way. Nice prospect. Finishing with either foot and decent movement. Obviously physically advanced but he won’t get bullied at any level being that size I’d say. England have some really top youngsters now. It’s an interesting market to United again I hope.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

As I said, my post was more general and not based on my personal opinion of Simms. And I didn’t say you were making a racial by the way, I know you wasn’t.

I just think people tend to invertly criticise the ‘opposite’ quality of a player if they are strong at one thing. It’s not an exclusively racial issue by any means, that was a tangent on my part. I think the better Declan Rice gets defensively, the worse he gets on the ball, for instance.

Fair enough. You're right about Rice too.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

He's mixed race and is compared unfavorably technically to Greenwood who is also mixed race so I don't see any merit in that idea.

I actually compared Bobby Duncan unfavorably to Greenwood technically and he's white. There isn't much discussion on Simms's technical ability.

Some of his finishing has been pretty tasty this season in fact


That said, it curious that such a prolific player at 18 has played so little u23 football. The 3 games he has played in he hasn't scored.

In that age group physicality can give you a distinct advantage, simply because a lot of the players are still growing. There have been any players that were similar. Connor Wickham, 2010 U17 Euros best player for example.

Should be age disputed. He looks about 24