Guardiola is bobbins considering the assets he has. Discuss (ting)

[kaiser1]

1986 Man United and 2016 Man City are such different situations that I don’t even know where to begin to explain.

3 seasons is radically different from 26 seasons dont you think so?

Pep has had arguably the three best seasons the club has ever had and still no CL final. Not very impressive. If you make it 26 years, it will only go downhill. This is pretty much City's golden era.

Making a CL final requires some bit of luck and many teams on their off seasons have won the CL or made finals, Spurs has played City 6 times in the past 2 seasons, Lost 5 games, won 1. Spurs is in the semi, City isn't.
Replay Spurs vs City again chances are that City progress, that is the nature of knockout games. Chelsea didnt make the CL final at their golden era

going by that logic.. Jose's should be the greatest manager of all time since he won the CL with porto in what 1 season?

Porto win was 15yrs ago, how has Jose been doing since? Or using your logic, Pep won a sextuple in his first full season as a coach....

He took over the richest team who already had the best squad.
And then spent the all time highest amount of money ever seen in english football.

That stuff helps ever so little.

How was City the best team when their lineup was Sagna, Clichy, Zabaleta, Mangala, Otamendi, Kolarov, Navas, Yaya Fernando, Hart. Look at where all the above players were playing by 2017/18 (2 seasons after Pep joined) to show how good that squad was
Sagna couldnt get a club, Clichy had to go to Basaksehir, Zabaleta can barely get games at WestHam, Mangala cannot make Evertons team, Otamendi is now a bench player, Yaya was recently released by Olympiakos, Hart cannot make the Burnley team. These were the best squad less than 3 seasons ago

Pep went to a team that finished 2nd in the table the year before and won it in 14/15 and spent half a billion to be where he is.

Ferguson went to a team that hasn't won the title in 20 years and was in the relegation zone upon appointment.

If we are talking about facts alone,
before Pep joined, City finished 4th level on points with Man Utd who finished 5th
but if we want to spin, stretch the truth, and mix a little hyperbole we can even say City won the treble, and won all games just before Pep joined

 

[Andrew Wolf]

Pep went to a team that finished 2nd in the table the year before and won it in 14/15 and spent half a billion to be where he is.

Ferguson went to a team that hasn't won the title in 20 years and was in the relegation zone upon appointment.

2nd in 14/15 and 4th in 15/16 on Goal Difference.

 

[Enigma_87]

2nd in 14/15 and 4th in 15/16 on Goal Difference.

If we are talking about facts alone,
before Pep joined, City finished 4th level on points with Man Utd who finished 5th
but if we want to spin, stretch the truth, and mix a little hyperbole we can even say City won the treble, and won all games just before Pep joined

They did finish 2nd and 1st the years before. 16/17 was a bit of a freak season with Leicester winning it and never being able to be in the mix there after.

Don't see how it is stretching it. Pep was "appointed" just after the winter transfer window. Pellegrini was basically done at that point and it was normal to have miserable end of the season considering they were in the CL SF's as well.

No matter how you spin it Pep spend more than half a billion pounds and were the best team in the league (in much better condition to either Chelsea or Leicester - the other two teams that have won the league recently).

 

[Sandikan]

3 seasons is radically different from 26 seasons dont you think so?


Making a CL final requires some bit of luck and many teams on their off seasons have won the CL or made finals, Spurs has played City 6 times in the past 2 seasons, Lost 5 games, won 1. Spurs is in the semi, City isn't.
Replay Spurs vs City again chances are that City progress, that is the nature of knockout games. Chelsea didnt make the CL final at their golden era



Porto win was 15yrs ago, how has Jose been doing since? Or using your logic, Pep won a sextuple in his first full season as a coach....



How was City the best team when their lineup was Sagna, Clichy, Zabaleta, Mangala, Otamendi, Kolarov, Navas, Yaya Fernando, Hart. Look at where all the above players were playing by 2017/18 (2 seasons after Pep joined) to show how good that squad was
Sagna couldnt get a club, Clichy had to go to Basaksehir, Zabaleta can barely get games at WestHam, Mangala cannot make Evertons team, Otamendi is now a bench player, Yaya was recently released by Olympiakos, Hart cannot make the Burnley team. These were the best squad less than 3 seasons ago


If we are talking about facts alone,
before Pep joined, City finished 4th level on points with Man Utd who finished 5th
but if we want to spin, stretch the truth, and mix a little hyperbole we can even say City won the treble, and won all games just before Pep joined

Who had a better squad in england than the one pep picked up, that already had david silva, de bruyne, sterling and aguero? Arguably his 4 best players now.

 

[Velvet Revolver]

Porto win was 15yrs ago, how has Jose been doing since? Or using your logic, Pep won a sextuple in his first full season as a coach....

You seem confused. You say Pep has done more in his first season at Barca and yet you say he has done enough at city in the last 3 seasons to justify his genius.

 

[JDoe]

How was City the best team when their lineup was Sagna, Clichy, Zabaleta, Mangala, Otamendi, Kolarov, Navas, Yaya Fernando, Hart. Look at where all the above players were playing by 2017/18 (2 seasons after Pep joined) to show how good that squad was
Sagna couldnt get a club, Clichy had to go to Basaksehir, Zabaleta can barely get games at WestHam, Mangala cannot make Evertons team, Otamendi is now a bench player, Yaya was recently released by Olympiakos, Hart cannot make the Burnley team. These were the best squad less than 3 seasons ago


If we are talking about facts alone,
before Pep joined, City finished 4th level on points with Man Utd who finished 5th
but if we want to spin, stretch the truth, and mix a little hyperbole we can even say City won the treble, and won all games just before Pep joined

City's squad was by far the best squad that year...
When Pep started, he got this first XI:
Hart
Sagna-Kompany-Otamendi-Kolarov
KdB-Fernandinho-Yaya
Sterling-Agüero-Silva

He then signed Bravo, Gündogan, Sané, Navas, Jesus and finished 3rd. Even before he made those signings and invested half a billion the years after, his squad and first XI was already the best in the league. Just name one squad/first XI that was better individually that year.

 

[sp_107]

he could still end up winning just league cup this season

 

[cyberman]

Pedro, Busquets, Thiago, Rafinha, Deulofeu, Sergi Roberto, Bartra



The ball deflecting off Bernardo was what made it offside for Aguero and needs to be said that real time no one caught it, not ref, linesman not even the Spurs players. This time last yr City would be in the semi

Ah so

Pedro, Busquets, Thiago, Rafinha, Deulofeu, Sergi Roberto, Bartra



The ball deflecting off Bernardo was what made it offside for Aguero and needs to be said that real time no one caught it, not ref, linesman not even the Spurs players. This time last yr City would be in the semi

Every tight game is a ref mistake away from the wrong side going through. It's not an excuse.
Eriksen playing a suicidal pass like that is a lot rarer than Aguero being offside. I've never seen so much focus placed on what if the officials made a major error.
This reasoning is so thin it's actually insulting

 

[tenpoless]

3 seasons is radically different from 26 seasons dont you think so?



Making a CL final requires some bit of luck and many teams on their off seasons have won the CL or made finals, Spurs has played City 6 times in the past 2 seasons, Lost 5 games, won 1. Spurs is in the semi, City isn't.
Replay Spurs vs City again chances are that City progress, that is the nature of knockout games. Chelsea didnt make the CL final at their golden era



Porto win was 15yrs ago, how has Jose been doing since? Or using your logic, Pep won a sextuple in his first full season as a coach....



How was City the best team when their lineup was Sagna, Clichy, Zabaleta, Mangala, Otamendi, Kolarov, Navas, Yaya Fernando, Hart. Look at where all the above players were playing by 2017/18 (2 seasons after Pep joined) to show how good that squad was
Sagna couldnt get a club, Clichy had to go to Basaksehir, Zabaleta can barely get games at WestHam, Mangala cannot make Evertons team, Otamendi is now a bench player, Yaya was recently released by Olympiakos, Hart cannot make the Burnley team. These were the best squad less than 3 seasons ago


If we are talking about facts alone,
before Pep joined, City finished 4th level on points with Man Utd who finished 5th
but if we want to spin, stretch the truth, and mix a little hyperbole we can even say City won the treble, and won all games just before Pep joined

If getting into CL final requires luck then your comparison of 26 years of SAF at ManUtd vs 3 years of Pep at City is pointless. You could easily say SAF was not very lucky during his time at ManUnited. You're contradicting your own post.

The truth is Pep has never achieved CL success at both Bayern and City. Unlucky? every teams and managers can claim to be unlucky and it's very subjective. Given all the resources and advantages City have compared to their rivals though, City, as of this moment, is as good as a Premier League team can be for a manager like Pep to achieve a CL success and so far, none.

 

[SteveJ]

Pep Bobbins SLAMS Manchester Divided!:

Manchester United at Old Trafford are not scary any more:

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...d-not-scary-any-more-pep-guardiola-derby-city

 

[tomaldinho1]

Of all the managers in the PL, Pep is the one now who stands on a real knife edge.

Pochettino's stock is at all all time high, regardless of what ever happens in the PL & CL. he's taken Spurs to a whole new world of late stage CL games and should finish top 4.
Klopp is the same, even if they win nothing his stock has risen
Ole is a non starter atm, damage limitation and no reputation
Sarri has actually steadied the ship at chelsea and they look like they might scrape in the CL spot. Whether he leaves or not Chelsea churn managers all the time.
Emery has done decently well with Arsenal, No one expected them to challenge for the PL this season but they've signed good players and will be better next season.

Than you have Pep. He's spend more than anyone and is well into a third season but familiar hurdles have popped up in the CL and they are actually being challenged this season for the PL title. IF Liverpool come out on top I wonder what City fans will make of his reign compared to someone like Mancini because it'll be 1PL title in three seasons and 2 (I think) domestic cups? Not great for basically fielding a dream team every week and it's not like he's built the team there: the spine of outfield players is very similar to as it was when he came.

 

[breakout67]

Of all the managers in the PL, Pep is the one now who stands on a real knife edge.

Pochettino's stock is at all all time high, regardless of what ever happens in the PL & CL. he's taken Spurs to a whole new world of late stage CL games and should finish top 4.
Klopp is the same, even if they win nothing his stock has risen
Ole is a non starter atm, damage limitation and no reputation
Sarri has actually steadied the ship at chelsea and they look like they might scrape in the CL spot. Whether he leaves or not Chelsea churn managers all the time.
Emery has done decently well with Arsenal, No one expected them to challenge for the PL this season but they've signed good players and will be better next season.

Than you have Pep. He's spend more than anyone and is well into a third season but familiar hurdles have popped up in the CL and they are actually being challenged this season for the PL title. IF Liverpool come out on top I wonder what City fans will make of his reign compared to someone like Mancini because it'll be 1PL title in three seasons and 2 (I think) domestic cups? Not great for basically fielding a dream team every week and it's not like he's built the team there: the spine of outfield players is very similar to as it was when he came.

Guardiola will walk next season if he fails to win the title this season and gets challenged next season. His teams aren't an unstoppable force, they get burnt out from his constant demands and his style of play induces injuries as time goes on.

Hopefully the owners decide that he's had enough money and should not ask for a £300m spending spree.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

If we are talking about facts alone,
before Pep joined, City finished 4th level on points with Man Utd who finished 5th
but if we want to spin, stretch the truth, and mix a little hyperbole we can even say City won the treble, and won all games just before Pep joined

This is a blinkered statement because it doesn't consider all of the facts. City had won the league in 2012 and still had their core of premiership winning players when Pep arrived. They had underachieved the prior season because after January when Pep was announced the players lost focus and silly points under Pellegrini. Look where they were in the table in December before the Pep announcement.

Not to mention the fact that Pep inherited a core of premiership winning players and then broke the premiership total spending records to add to that!

Pep broke the UK goalkeeper transfer record for Bravo then broke it again the season after for Ederson. Nolito signed, flopped and replaced with unlimited funds. He had it easy.

I'm really bored of having to have this conversation but some of the silly statements about Pep at City need correcting.

 

[breakout67]

in 15/16

Man City spent 13 weeks in 1st place, 1 week outside the top 4. Got to the CL semi finals

Man Utd spent 1 week in 1st place, 21 weeks outside the top 4. Knocked out of the group stages of the CL and final 8 of the EL.

Man City would have challenged for the league had they not announced Pelegrini's departure mid season. Their form dropped off a cliff after it was announced.

 

[royboy16]

I wish we had Guardiola, he is a far better manager/coach than all the ones we had since SAF combined. The only reason there is so much undermining and hatred of Guardiola is because of he is managing City, we would have won titles and our transition would have been far better if we had appointed Guardiola after SAF and given him the money that we gave to Moyes, LvG and Mourinho. It's a shame how we seem to miss most good managers and get crap ones, LvG would have gone to Spurs if we hadn't interfered. Damn it all.

Yeah,I dont get the hate,hes a rival coach but he doesnt bother me that much.
His teams play nice football even if he does need a load of money to mould his teams.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Yeah,I dont get the hate,hes a rival coach but he doesnt bother me that much.
His teams play nice football even if he does need a load of money to mould his teams.

I don't hate him I just think there's large portion of fans who overrate him hugely. For me, he's a great manager but all his achievements are undeniably coming from positions of absolute strength - that's why if Liverpool do win the league, it would represent a really average return on investment in my mind given the resources he has at his disposal.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Guardiola is the only manager I know who has this weird following of fans who go round wanking over him at every possible opportunity.

I’m somewhat indifferent to him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s on drugs with that weird twitch he has during interviews. He’s obviously shown that he needs A LOT of money to get things his way and he cherrypicks clubs extremely carefully, rather than being the managerial messiah with the Midas touch. His first City season even with that group of players wasn’t that great... and he’s bald too

I probably hate his weirdo zealot fans rather than him.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Guardiola is the only manager I know who has this weird following of fans who go round wanking over him at every possible opportunity.

I’m somewhat indifferent to him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s on drugs with that weird twitch he has during interviews. He’s obviously shown that he needs A LOT of money to get things his way and he cherrypicks clubs extremely carefully, rather than being the managerial messiah with the Midas touch. His first City season even with that group of players wasn’t that great... and he’s bald too

I probably hate his weirdo zealot fans rather than him.

Football fans are the only people who expect people to take a step down in one's career to prove their worth.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Football fans are the only people who expect people to take a step down in one's career to prove their worth.

Not really people only do this with Pep.

 

[Dancfc]

in 15/16

Man City spent 13 weeks in 1st place, 1 week outside the top 4. Got to the CL semi finals

Man Utd spent 1 week in 1st place, 21 weeks outside the top 4. Knocked out of the group stages of the CL and final 8 of the EL.

Man City would have challenged for the league had they not announced Pelegrini's departure mid season. Their form dropped off a cliff after it was announced.

They won the first 5 games but other than that were crap all season, after those games they only got something like 4 points more than Chelsea and everyone knows how crap we were.

 

[Dancfc]

Guardiola is the only manager I know who has this weird following of fans who go round wanking over him at every possible opportunity.

He's also the only manager that people have this weird notion that he has to do what he did at Barca at Sunderland to be truly great.

 

[WhiteRabbitWithBlackEars]

Making a CL final requires some bit of luck and many teams on their off seasons have won the CL or made finals, Spurs has played City 6 times in the past 2 seasons, Lost 5 games, won 1. Spurs is in the semi, City isn't.
Replay Spurs vs City again chances are that City progress, that is the nature of knockout games. Chelsea didnt make the CL final at their golden era

Here it comes again, the "luck" argument. Why is luck always used as an excuse for Pep when it comes to his failures, but never used to put his achievements into perspective. One might argue winning his first CL with Barcelona was quite lucky. He should not even have been in the final.
In addition to this, considering how superior his team is over Spurs' why does he even need luck? Why does "genius" Pep need luck with by far the better team? And why is Pep so "unlucky"? We are not talking about one CL run. We are talking about 6 (including the treble winning Bayern he took over). And to say in a rematch City would go through is quite a stretch considering they just had one in the PL which ended 1:0. All this "unlucky" argument makes no sense. It should never be so close considering his vastly superior resources. How is this a sign of a genius, when you have the deepest squad in the PL and can't even beat the thinnest squad amongst the top 6 over 2 legs?

Porto win was 15yrs ago, how has Jose been doing since? Or using your logic, Pep won a sextuple in his first full season as a coach....

Hmm... let me think. Winning the treble with Inter Milan, including the CL, beating the superior Pep and his superior Barcelona in the semi finals in 2010? Unlucky Pep.

If we are talking about facts alone,
before Pep joined, City finished 4th

They finished 4th because Pellegrini lost his authority. Everybody knew he was leaving and Pep coming. He still won more in his last season than "genius" Pep in his first.

 

[Mark_Barca]

This whole Pellegrini losing his authority and Guardiola being announced as the reason City were poor in 15/16 is a complete myth.

Apparently announcing something on the 1st Feb 2016 is the reason why Shitty lost 4-1 at Spurs, 4-1 at home to Liverpool, at home to WHU, away to Stoke and Arsenal in 2015.... Announcing Guardiola in Feb is clearly the reason for the 3 draws in the space of 3 weeks in Dec/Jan.

How about people deal in facts and accept City were poor that season before Guardiola was announced and that the 3 defeats in a row were a consequence of playing two sides that were better throughout the season and a Liverpool side who had assets that hurt City hence winning 4-1 at City in 2015 and 3-0 in 2016.

Funnily enough it's ignored that they managed to knock out PSG and only lost 1-0 on agg to Real in the semis. MP must be some god to get those results after losing his 'authority' eh?!

 

[Cheesy]

in 15/16

Man City spent 13 weeks in 1st place, 1 week outside the top 4. Got to the CL semi finals

Man Utd spent 1 week in 1st place, 21 weeks outside the top 4. Knocked out of the group stages of the CL and final 8 of the EL.

Man City would have challenged for the league had they not announced Pelegrini's departure mid season. Their form dropped off a cliff after it was announced.

This is an absolute myth though. The reason City were top for so long was because they started the season so well in a year where there wasn't an obvious contender. But that good start literally only lasted for five games. They then lost 5 of their next 12 league games, and from mid-October to February when Guardiola's arrival was announced they didn't win more than one league game on the bounce. It's true that they did get even worse for a while after the announcement but the three successive games they lost were to Leicester, Spurs and Liverpool. They'd already pretty much fecked their season by then and had been in meddling form for months.

 

[breakout67]

This whole Pellegrini losing his authority and Guardiola being announced as the reason City were poor in 15/16 is a complete myth.

Apparently announcing something on the 1st Feb 2016 is the reason why Shitty lost 4-1 at Spurs, 4-1 at home to Liverpool, at home to WHU, away to Stoke and Arsenal in 2015.... Announcing Guardiola in Feb is clearly the reason for the 3 draws in the space of 3 weeks in Dec/Jan.

How about people deal in facts and accept City were poor that season before Guardiola was announced and that the 3 defeats in a row were a consequence of playing two sides that were better throughout the season and a Liverpool side who had assets that hurt City hence winning 4-1 at City in 2015 and 3-0 in 2016.

Funnily enough it's ignored that they managed to knock out PSG and only lost 1-0 on agg to Real in the semis. MP must be some god to get those results after losing his 'authority' eh?!

Ah yes because the players would find out in a press conference that he was leaving . They knew before hand and the 3 losses in a row meant that it was just a badly kept secret. It's well established that the CL is a self motivating contest. Teams that do poor in the league often raise their level naturally in the cup competitions. Man City kept on being poor in the league but showed up in the CL.

This is an absolute myth though. The reason City were top for so long was because they started the season so well in a year where there wasn't an obvious contender. But that good start literally only lasted for five games. They then lost 5 of their next 12 league games, and from mid-October to February when Guardiola's arrival was announced they didn't win more than one league game on the bounce. It's true that they did get even worse for a while after the announcement but the three successive games they lost were to Leicester, Spurs and Liverpool. They'd already pretty much fecked their season by then and had been in meddling form for months.

Strange that City 'fecked' their season when they were 2nd place and 3 points off the top in February. They finished the season 15 points off the top. But apparently that was a given.

 

[Enigma_87]

This whole Pellegrini losing his authority and Guardiola being announced as the reason City were poor in 15/16 is a complete myth.

Apparently announcing something on the 1st Feb 2016 is the reason why Shitty lost 4-1 at Spurs, 4-1 at home to Liverpool, at home to WHU, away to Stoke and Arsenal in 2015.... Announcing Guardiola in Feb is clearly the reason for the 3 draws in the space of 3 weeks in Dec/Jan.

How about people deal in facts and accept City were poor that season before Guardiola was announced and that the 3 defeats in a row were a consequence of playing two sides that were better throughout the season and a Liverpool side who had assets that hurt City hence winning 4-1 at City in 2015 and 3-0 in 2016.

Funnily enough it's ignored that they managed to knock out PSG and only lost 1-0 on agg to Real in the semis. MP must be some god to get those results after losing his 'authority' eh?!

Pep signed on 1st of February when City were 3 points off the top with superior GD... Hardly they were shite at the time eh?

 

[Cheesy]

Strange that City 'fecked' their season when they were 2nd place and 3 points off the top in February. They finished the season 15 points off the top. But apparently that was a given.

The reason they remained close was because of their good start. As the season wore on Leicester were remarkably consistent while City continued to perform poorly, as they had been doing (largely) from after the fifth game of the season. There's nothing to prove they'd have won the title otherwise unless there's an assumption their form would've magically improved had Pellegrini not been given the chop.

 

[breakout67]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...manuel-pellegrini-pep-guardiola-arsenal-visit

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...legrini-manchester-city-pep-guardiola-manager

https://www.thenational.ae/sport/fo...diola-will-coach-at-man-city-one-day-1.103970

Pep Guardiola was being tipped to manage City in December, and Pelegrini talked down this unrest of manager while also saying that Guardiola would make a good City manager in the future.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/dec/19/carlo-ancelotti-bayern-munich-manager-pep-guardiola

Ancelotti was already being tipped to replace Guardiola and had agreed a contract in principle in December.

https://www.eurosport.co.uk/footbal...ver-at-manchester-city_sto4941617/story.shtml

There were reports as early as October that Guardiola was going to leave Bayern for City.

Guardiola played down talks of his future for months before finally announcing he was leaving Bayern. It was the worst kept secret in Manchester that Pelegrini was leaving.

 

[Cheesy]

Pep signed on 1st of February when City were 3 points off the top with superior GD... Hardly they were shite at the time eh?

Again the only reason they were even remotely close was because there was no runaway contender and because of their good start.

From after their fifth game of the season they had a points tally of 32 points from 19 games until the Leicester game. Moyes managed more than that during his first 19 league games with us!

 

[breakout67]

The reason they remained close was because of their good start. As the season wore on Leicester were remarkably consistent while City continued to perform poorly, as they had been doing (largely) from after the fifth game of the season. There's nothing to prove they'd have won the title otherwise unless there's an assumption their form would've magically improved had Pellegrini not been given the chop.

This really shouldnt need explaining...when you know the manager is gone at the end of the season you end up playing for yourself. Not flying into tackles, playing well in the CL to put themselves in the shop window, some players will even suspect that they no longer have a future with the new manager so stop trying completely.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Pep has been seriously bad in Europe since leaving Barca. At Bayern it wasn't that he lost, because losing to Real and Barca (both of whom went on to win) but the manner in which he lost that was poor. Never looked on the same level as Real and Barca.

Against Atletico, a team Bayern had better players than, he wasn't able to take Bayern past. His tactics have not translated against the best teams in Europe, while his amazing squad manages to overpower all in England.

 

[Mark_Barca]

Pep signed on 1st of February when City were 3 points off the top with superior GD... Hardly they were shite at the time eh?

Who was top? Leicester? The league that season as a whole was weak.

They had already dropped 25 points after 23 games. Dropped points in 10 of the 23 games.

Also he was announced on 1st Feb, they won the game on the 2nd Feb, how can that be as the league results were solely due to Guardiola being announced.

 

[DanClancy]

He had a great side with Bayern and should have got to at least a final, losing to Monaco in his first year wasn't that bad but in the last 2 seasons hes' been knocked out by teams he's going to finish nearly 20 points above in the league. City's owners will be very disappointed, they've got no way near winning it.

 

[Zlatan 7]

This really shouldnt need explaining...when you know the manager is gone at the end of the season you end up playing for yourself. Not flying into tackles, playing well in the CL to put themselves in the shop window, some players will even suspect that they no longer have a future with the new manager so stop trying completely.

@Cheesy Exactly this quoted post. Didn’t Pellegrini win the league with these and the main players pep uses today are from this time and not his ‘own’ players. It was a good team and my memory of it was they went to shit once they all the pep song and dance started and they knew Pellegrini was going

 

[Enigma_87]

Again the only reason they were even remotely close was because there was no runaway contender and because of their good start.

From after their fifth game of the season they had a points tally of 32 points from 19 games until the Leicester game. Moyes managed more than that during his first 19 league games with us!

That doesn't make sense though. They were close because, well they were... The title was still in their hands and control - they had Leicester at home, 3 points adrift and better GD.

Most of the times in the run in the title is won mentally or by little things that elevate your form and bring confidence (Macheda anyone?). City lacked it and had a very poor 2 months after Leicester loss - 1 win in 6 games in the league.

Their 4th position in the end also has much to do with not putting their best in the last games of the season where they again won only 1 game out of 4.. The confidence was shot, manager knew he's getting the boot - not really what you are looking at if you try to win the league.

You saw what effect had our change of manager this year and the unbeaten (till recently) form.

 

[Enigma_87]

Who was top? Leicester? The league that season as a whole was weak.

They had already dropped 25 points after 23 games. Dropped points in 10 of the 23 games.

Also he was announced on 1st Feb, they won the game on the 2nd Feb, how can that be as the league results were solely due to Guardiola being announced.

Yes, Leicester - the team that won it eventually.

They did win after he was announced (against relegation battlers Sunderland), yet lost points in the next 5 out of 6 games..

The difference in the final standings was 5 points off 2nd spot. They didn't have anything to fight for come the last 4 games in three of which they lost points.

Still that doesn't change the fact they had by far the best team in the country, neither that they were constant title challenger and winner at the time.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

@CheesyIt was a good team and my memory of it was they went to shit once they all the pep song and dance started and they knew Pellegrini was going

But that's because you all a) have shit memories b) are pushing false narratives so you can bang the 'Pep Guardiola is my idol' drum without any further thinking.

 

[Zlatan 7]

But that's because you all a) have shit memories b) are pushing false narratives so you can bang the 'Pep Guardiola is my idol' drum without any further thinking.

Fair enough, my bad, I thought Aguero, debruyne, Sterling, Silva, Fernandinho, you know, cities ‘stars’ were already there.
I agree I’ve got a shit memory though

 

[Ockham]

He's a baldy fraud. Inherited every team he's ever managed, followed by unlimited funds.

To refuse this thesis it is necessary to go into depth. Which means a long but hopefully not boring post.


On an aggregate level Guardiolas teams have performed way better in the league after he arrived compared to the same timeperiod before he arrived and they have performed as well in the CL as before he arrived.
CL is also a tournament with very small margins. CL has many times been won by clearly inferior teams. When Liverpool won CL 2005 they were behind Everton in PL. Milan won CL 2007 but was not even best in their hometown that year since Inter was 28!!! points ahead of them in Serie A. Chelsea won CL in 2012 and yet they just finished 6th in PL. And after this and the last PL-season nobody can say that Tottenham is a better team than Man City and yet Tottenham are playing CL-final this year after getting the thumbs up in two VAR-decisions. I can go on and on with more examples (Real Madrid vs Barca for example) but I think you're getting the point. CL is a lottery where the best team seldom wins the tournament even if they have some more numbers put in the lottery than their opponents.



So let's take a look on Guardiolas training career so far.



Barcelona 2008-2012 (4 years)

* 14 Trophys in 4 years. Still a club record.

* The year before Guardiola took over Barcelona they finished 3rd in La liga 10 points behind Villarreal and 18 points behind Real Madrid. He inherited a FC Barcelona that was free falling. Guardiola totally transformed the team.

* He shipped away players like Ronaldinho, Deco, Etoo, Yaya Touré, Henry, Ibrahimovic and instead put faith in unknown players like Piquet, Busquets, and Pedro and created the 2010/2011 team which is the best team in football history.


League position years before Guardiola: 1-1-2-3

League position during Guardiola: 1-1-1-2

League points the years before Guardiola: 84-82-76-67 (average:77.25)

League points during Guardiola: 87-99-96-91 (average:93.25)



3 La liga Trophys

2 CL wins

2 CL-semifinals


In the semifinals they lost to the CL-Winners Inter and Chelsea.

Stats in the semifinals lost:


Goalattempts: Barca-Inter 20-9

Possession: Barca-Inter 71-29


Goalattempts: Barca-Chelsea 36-11

Possession: Barca-Chelsea 73-27


Bayern Munich 2013-2016 (3 years)



League position before Guardiola: 3-2-1

League position during Guardiola: 1-1-1

League points before Guardiola: 65-73-91 (average:76.3)

League points during Guardiola: 90-79-88 (average:85.66)



3 CL-semifinals (two of them lost to the CL-winners and one of them on away goals)



Stats in the semifinals lost:



Goalattempts: BM-Real Madrid 35-22

Possession: BM-Real Madrid 64-36



Goalattempts: BM-Barcelona 21-19

Possession: BM-Barcelona 53-47



Goalattempts: BM-Atletico Madrid 40-13

Possession: BM-Atletico Madrid 69-31



Fun fact:



Guardiolas assistant coach in Bayern Munich was the completely unknown Erik Ten Hag. Erik Ten Hag is now coaching Ajax that with an ,on paper, inferior team beat both RM and Juventus reaching the semifinals in CL. And they did it by much of the time dominating the game in the typical Guardiolastyle.





Manchester City 2016-2019 (3 years):



League position before Guardiola: 1-2-4

League position during Guardiola: 3-1-1

League points before Guardiola: 86-79-66 (average:77)

League points during Guardiola: 78-100-98 (average:92)



1 CL-last-16 (lost to CL-finalist and on away goals)

2 CL-Qfinals (lost to 2 CL-finalists and one of them on away goals)



Stats in the CL-games lost:



Goalattempts: Mcity-Monaco 14-23

Possession: MCity-Monaco 60-40



Goalattempts: Mcity-Liverpool 29-16

Possession: Mcity-Liverpool 63-37



Goalattempts: Mcity-Tottenham 30-24

Possession: Mcity-Tottenham 61-39



So to sum the "Pep Guardiola is my idol" up:



In10 tries:



2 CL-wins

5 CL-semifinals

2 CL-quarterfinals

1 CL-16



* Won Goal attempts in every knockout stage back to back game except against Monaco (7 out of 8).

* Won Ball possession in every single knockout stage game (16 out of 16) including the Bayern Munich one against Barca. A Barcelona that uptil then had won possession in every game they had played between late 2008 to 2015.



In 10 tries:



7 League trophys

2 Runner ups

1 3rd place

 

[Fluctuation0161]

To refuse this thesis it is necessary to go into depth. Which means a long but hopefully not boring post.


On an aggregate level Guardiolas teams have performed way better in the league after he arrived compared to the same timeperiod before he arrived and they have performed as well in the CL as before he arrived.
CL is also a tournament with very small margins. CL has many times been won by clearly inferior teams. When Liverpool won CL 2005 they were behind Everton in PL. Milan won CL 2007 but was not even best in their hometown that year since Inter was 28!!! points ahead of them in Serie A. Chelsea won CL in 2012 and yet they just finished 6th in PL. And after this and the last PL-season nobody can say that Tottenham is a better team than Man City and yet Tottenham are playing CL-final this year after getting the thumbs up in two VAR-decisions. I can go on and on with more examples (Real Madrid vs Barca for example) but I think you're getting the point. CL is a lottery where the best team seldom wins the tournament even if they have some more numbers put in the lottery than their opponents.



So let's take a look on Guardiolas training career so far.



Barcelona 2008-2012 (4 years)

* 14 Trophys in 4 years. Still a club record.

* The year before Guardiola took over Barcelona they finished 3rd in La liga 10 points behind Villarreal and 18 points behind Real Madrid. He inherited a FC Barcelona that was free falling. Guardiola totally transformed the team.

* He shipped away players like Ronaldinho, Deco, Etoo, Yaya Touré, Henry, Ibrahimovic and instead put faith in unknown players like Piquet, Busquets, and Pedro and created the 2010/2011 team which is the best team in football history.


League position years before Guardiola: 1-1-2-3

League position during Guardiola: 1-1-1-2

League points the years before Guardiola: 84-82-76-67 (average:77.25)

League points during Guardiola: 87-99-96-91 (average:93.25)



3 La liga Trophys

2 CL wins

2 CL-semifinals


In the semifinals they lost to the CL-Winners Inter and Chelsea.

Stats in the semifinals lost:


Goalattempts: Barca-Inter 20-9

Possession: Barca-Inter 71-29


Goalattempts: Barca-Chelsea 36-11

Possession: Barca-Chelsea 73-27


Bayern Munich 2013-2016 (3 years)



League position before Guardiola: 3-2-1

League position during Guardiola: 1-1-1

League points before Guardiola: 65-73-91 (average:76.3)

League points during Guardiola: 90-79-88 (average:85.66)



3 CL-semifinals (two of them lost to the CL-winners and one of them on away goals)



Stats in the semifinals lost:



Goalattempts: BM-Real Madrid 35-22

Possession: BM-Real Madrid 64-36



Goalattempts: BM-Barcelona 21-19

Possession: BM-Barcelona 53-47



Goalattempts: BM-Atletico Madrid 40-13

Possession: BM-Atletico Madrid 69-31



Fun fact:



Guardiolas assistant coach in Bayern Munich was the completely unknown Erik Ten Hag. Erik Ten Hag is now coaching Ajax that with an ,on paper, inferior team beat both RM and Juventus reaching the semifinals in CL. And they did it by much of the time dominating the game in the typical Guardiolastyle.





Manchester City 2016-2019 (3 years):



League position before Guardiola: 1-2-4

League position during Guardiola: 3-1-1

League points before Guardiola: 86-79-66 (average:77)

League points during Guardiola: 78-100-98 (average:92)



1 CL-last-16 (lost to CL-finalist and on away goals)

2 CL-Qfinals (lost to 2 CL-finalists and one of them on away goals)



Stats in the CL-games lost:



Goalattempts: Mcity-Monaco 14-23

Possession: MCity-Monaco 60-40



Goalattempts: Mcity-Liverpool 29-16

Possession: Mcity-Liverpool 63-37



Goalattempts: Mcity-Tottenham 30-24

Possession: Mcity-Tottenham 61-39



So to sum the "Pep Guardiola is my idol" up:



In10 tries:



2 CL-wins

5 CL-semifinals

2 CL-quarterfinals

1 CL-16



* Won Goal attempts in every knockout stage back to back game except against Monaco (7 out of 8).

* Won Ball possession in every single knockout stage game (16 out of 16) including the Bayern Munich one against Barca. A Barcelona that uptil then had won possession in every game they had played between late 2008 to 2015.



In 10 tries:



7 League trophys

2 Runner ups

1 3rd place

You need to add spend to those stats.

Also what key players did he inherit with each side?

Every single team there had been champions before he took over (within 3 seasons).

No doubt he is a top manager. But he has inherited a championship winning squad and more recently had unlimited spend on top of that with City. He certainly likes to pick the easy wins when choosing his club.