Sure, piss easy to live up to his own hype.
Guardiola is bobbins considering the assets he has. Discuss (ting)
- Thread starter OldSchoolManc
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Way I see it, given what he's spent, he's over achieving. Given what we've spent, we're severely underachieving.
I don't know about over-achieving as he's spent a truckload of money as well, and he has failed three years in a row in the CL, but he is definitely at the very least achieving. His squad is as deep as it gets outside of a position or two, which is more than you can say about pretty much every other squad in world football. They are built for both the league and CL so he has succeeded in one aspect but has failed in another.
How do you overachieve when spending the most? That's hyperbole of the opposite direction.
You can spent shit loads and win nothing, there's no guarantee of monopoly, especially in England.
I am very aware of that, but it doesn't make you an overachiever when you do win stuff with shitloads of money spent.
It's more the manner at which City have won things. They almost had a perfect season... no one can tell me that's par the course.
Perfect season? Without the CL?
Almost. VAR saved us in this regard.
Pellegrini and Mancini were just as effective with all that money weren't they!
He has achieved nothing more than his predecessors. The Barcelona team, he replaced his aging and less motivated players with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Villa, Ibra, etc. Not to mention having Messi coming into his absolute prime.
So the rules of the game got in his way? How unfair is that?
Not underachieving does not equal overachieving. Is this a very difficult concept to grasp?
I am not belittling anything Pep has done with City or at Bayern or Barcelona before that. Just check basically any Pep-related thread.
Debateable, even with VAR. I never said it was unfair?
Anyway, we're going round in circles. My point was City almost had a perfect season, they came very close to getting through to the CL final and won everything else. They've spent bucket loads but it takes more than that to garner the key ingredients to winning.
I don't think you can make a case for overachieving. However he has done a good job. Inheriting Sterling, DeBruyne, Aguero, Silva.D gave him a great start in terms of building his own side. He basically rebuilt his defence since he came in adding Mahrez, Sane, Silva.B and Jesus to his attacking options. He used 16/17 to assess what he inherited plus had the luxury of bringing in 10 players while only selling two. 17/18 shows him recruiting based on what he perceived to be his side's weaknesses. He shipped out 1/2 his inherited squad having had the previous season to assess them. Klopp did something similar at Liverpool in 16/17. 18/19 sees them add Mahrez and tick along as before adding two more trophies to his previous season's haul.
Over all he has recruited well. It is easy to spend money harder to spend it well. I think if he doesn't win Champions League next season he may leave. If he doesn't win the champion's league by the time he does go it will leave a question mark over his time there.
Over all he has recruited well. It is easy to spend money harder to spend it well. I think if he doesn't win Champions League next season he may leave. If he doesn't win the champion's league by the time he does go it will leave a question mark over his time there.
Hate to jump in here, but there is no debate.
I've said it some days ago: his apex was 09-11.
But his Leagues with City are definitely second best and a nice revival of his trademark pressing+passing tactics (his ligas with Bayern are not that impressive and part of a 7-and counting?- ligas cicle, shared with other managers).
Unless he wins the UCL with City, 08-11 Barça will remain his masterpiece.
But his Leagues with City are definitely second best and a nice revival of his trademark pressing+passing tactics (his ligas with Bayern are not that impressive and part of a 7-and counting?- ligas cicle, shared with other managers).
Unless he wins the UCL with City, 08-11 Barça will remain his masterpiece.
He took that winning 'streak' from 1 to 4. He shared all of one league win out of 4 with another manager, and we have been in constant decline after him.
Don't disagree with the rest of your post, but his stay at Bayern typically gets slated a lot more than deserved.
People are fixated on spending. The important thing is the quality of players. Do City 17-19 have better players than United 99, Arsenal 02-04, Chelsea 04-06, United 07-09? I doubt it. Their first XI is arguably weaker than any of those sides. And their depth is a bit exaggerated. They won 18 games in a row and 100 pts last season with the likes of Walker, Otamendi, Stones and Delph in defence. Think about that for a moment. Could you compare that defence to the defence of the greatest English sides? What about their attackers? Sterling was a laughing stock prior to Guardiola, Sane an unproven youngster, same with Jesus.
Had you asked people prior to the 17/18 season whether that team could win 100 pts, you'd have been laughed out of the forum for being an absolute moron. Now people come up with ludicrous posts suggesting that winning 100 pts with this team was perfectly normal. Let's be honest there. It was incredible.
Guardiloa is easily top 5 of all time and arguably the best coach ever. Not doing enough to sign him was criminal. By the time he leaves, City will be set to dominate for a decade.
Had you asked people prior to the 17/18 season whether that team could win 100 pts, you'd have been laughed out of the forum for being an absolute moron. Now people come up with ludicrous posts suggesting that winning 100 pts with this team was perfectly normal. Let's be honest there. It was incredible.
Guardiloa is easily top 5 of all time and arguably the best coach ever. Not doing enough to sign him was criminal. By the time he leaves, City will be set to dominate for a decade.
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I read today that City are celebrating their season by calling their team the 'Fourmidables' after Pep's comments about the charity shield. What a load of wank. I find it weird that Jose and Pep are obsessed with counting the charity shield as a major trophy, it's a friendly FFS and you don't need it to stoke your ego even further. You're already a treble winner for god's sake (though not the winner of THE treble)
I read the equivalent in Spain is a more serious thing (probably because it's a clasico more often than not). Still, the club going with it and making up that slogan is quite cringey.
And i think in Italy too it's more serious (i could be wrong though) but in England it was always a nothing trophy/friendly but Jose seemed to be the first who thought differently. I find it all a bit unpalatable and that's not just Pep but as I said, Jose's insistence on counting it to stoke his ego ('I won three trophies in my first season with United').
I remember Tevez running in celebration when we won it in 2008 and no one else ran with him
, also Keane lifting it with no smile and a shrug.It's a shame we can't acknowledge greatness when it comes to rival team managers, we're not shy of dishing out praise for the players but being a manager (even one with healthy financial backing) is a fecking hard job and Guardiola has smashed it time and time again.
They are 2 separate, mutually exclusive points.
Given what he has spent and what squad he inherited I would not say he is over achieving. He's broken Premiership spending records after already inheriting the core of a quality first team.
I'd say his achievements are on par with the quality and depth of squad he has at his disposal.
Like which ones? Chelsea are still record spenders of the PL era, and United have at least two players who were more expensive than any single one of Guardiola's signings at City.
He sure has spent a lot, and I already wrote earlier that 'overachieving' is definitely wrong, but why always the hyperbole?
Because it's true, look at 16/17 and 17/18.
https://www.football365.com/news/the-biggest-spender-in-every-pl-season-and-how-they-fared
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Also, City only started spending seriously in 2008. Chelsea were spending small amounts since 1993. Hardly a comparison. Look at the figures post 2008.
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When comparing these numbers across seasons 20 years and trying to crown record transfer fees, you'd need either to adjust for inflation or at least compare the numbers to the spending of the competing clubs (by percentages for example). The absolute numbers have basically no meaning.
So to conclude, Pep is still bobbins, because he only won the treble, and narrowly went out on a contentious VAR decision to Tottenham.
Riight.
Riight.
I don't know man, he took the best team in the world by a margin - that had the backbone of the German NT littered with world cup winners + prime robben, ribery, lewandowski, alaba etc and got twatted in the CL every year by spanish teams. Even got beaten by Porto and Basel away, which that Bayern team should have never allowed to happen.
He tries to be too clever, and transmits fear to his players in clutch matches. There was no way RM in 2014 was a better team than Bayern, and even AM in 2016 was inferior. Pep lost both, and that's on him.
In the league, he did great by twatting Hamburg and Paderborn - but that's par for the course and Bayern have been doing that anyways.
They weren't world cup winners when he took over in 2013.
The 2014 tie against Real was the one on him, because he and the squad still were not quite sure what to do with each other. 2015 was injuries, 2016 we went out on away goals after having missed a penalty - incredibly fine margins.
In the league he normalized the points haul of our greatest season ever by that idolized Heynckes team (who lost in the CL to Bate Baryssau away, btw, which this Bayern team surely should never have allowed to happen).
I'd rate his stint for us as slightly above average, with him being rather underwhelming in the CL and very good in the league. Pretty much the same with City currently. Thing is I could honestly never imagine a Pep team going into a tie as the underdog and winning it. If we replayed the SF against Barca for instance, I'd honestly think we would have lost 10 out of 10 times against them, whereas there are managers that I am sure would win at the very least 2 or 3 times out of those with that squad. On the other hand, I couldn't picture anyone winning the league against him if he manages to have the best squad in the league, although Pool came surprisingly close this year.
Excuses, excuses, excuses. Injuries didn't prevent Liverpool from beating Barcelona 4-0 or Spurs from knocking Ajax out. You'll never have the optimal team, you go to make do... He lost badly to RM and Barca, and competed with Atletico. A better manager would have gotten Bayern to at least 2 more finals.
A loss in group stages in October is totally fine - Bayern were always going to win the group. Knockouts is a different beast, as the margin for error is super slim - don't recall Heynckes' team losing too many in the knockout stages.
That Heynekes team lost the CL final in their own stadium to a 6th placed Chelsea the previous season, along with the league to Klopp's Dortmund. They absolutely crushed the league and CL the following season, but making out as if that team under Pep was held back from future CL titles is a bit of a stretch.
Mourinho in 2012.
You can do that adjustment but they will have still broken premiership spending records. Which is what you initially called hyperbole.
I'm guessing you've not looked at the amount spent by City since 2008 and compared with other clubs spend?
Since 2008... "They have a net transfer spend of more than £1.2 billion over the 11 seasons since the 2008 takeover. That’s almost 50 per cent more than their closest rival over that period – the Qatar-funded PSG – and half a billion pounds more than the team in third place, Manchester United.".
Real had a better squad that year and pretty much every year after that until now tbh.
with inflation pep/city has spent less than Chelsea did around Jose's first reign.
Well he only managed to win the treble. He should get the quadruple every season at the very least with the resource he had.
Ok I don’t get it.
Ok I don’t get it.
Samuel Eto'o
"I can't compare Mourinho to Guardiola, one of them couldn't win the Champions league with Bayern Munich & the other one did it with Porto."
That’s really what it is at the end of the day.
"I can't compare Mourinho to Guardiola, one of them couldn't win the Champions league with Bayern Munich & the other one did it with Porto."
That’s really what it is at the end of the day.
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When you put it like that... Surely Roberto Di Matteo betters both of them.