He is good defender, good player on the ball and superb leader.
Is Ramos the most overrated CB in history?
- Thread starter deafepl
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He's massively overrated. Been lucky to have been partnered by some great CB's in his time (Varane, Pique, Puyol, Pepe). He's also a massive prick.
He makes far too many mistakes defensively to be a good defender. Makes our backline look solid
Out backline is shit if Ramos is average. Well saying they are shit is like praising them if Ramos is average.
I'll likely get slayed but I'd say Terry was more overrated than Ramos, Pique, etc.
But Terry made sliding tackles, was full of heart, etc.
But Terry made sliding tackles, was full of heart, etc.
I guess you havent watched him this season. Jones has made less mistakes
Sure, that's the obvious reason and we should rate the player based on his worst season.
This thread is posted after a poor season where Madrid's defense was clearly a major weakness and reason they couldnt compete for the top. Of course its going to be a big factor. But he's always had some issues defending. Its in attack where hes always done well
So? No one said Ramos is great CB based on this season. It's based on his career.
No he won them a C.L and help influenced multiple others, solid defender when it came down to it apart from times when he lost his cool but so did Vidic against Torres. Also he was quite an attacking CB which could leave them open at times but it was worth it overall for how good he was at it.
You have to understand how difficult it is to defend in that Real team. Their defence - line is very very high. And because of that he will sometimes look out of Place but in Return they will score alot of goals.
Ramos has been pivotal in that team for ages. I rate him higher than alot of other CB's thats rated highly. If we had Ramos and Rio it would be better than Rio/Vidic.
Ramos has been pivotal in that team for ages. I rate him higher than alot of other CB's thats rated highly. If we had Ramos and Rio it would be better than Rio/Vidic.
David Luis is probably the best comparison to make to Ramos. No doubt he is a world class footballer, but that doesn't mean he's a great defender. They both make way too many mistakes and are probably playing in the wrong position. I would play both of them as a DM and have real defenders playing behind them...By far. He is a subpar defender prone to making errors almost every single game. There's another similar cb to him called David Luiz who people call a clown for his own comical errors.
Ramos scores goals and suddenly he is a world class DEFENDER. I mean, all you need to do is watch a game and see him make a joke of defending week in week out. Never seen a 'top' defender make so many errors before. Madrid have been wining because of their attacking and not because they were keeping clean sheets.
Let me guess, he is a WC defender because of his trophy cabinet
Spain won the EUROS with Arbeloa as thier RB, let that sink in for a moment.
Defending wise, VVD has performed at a different level this last past 18 months than Ramos has done in his whole career. Imagine putting this clown in Pools defence, they would concede almost 3 goals a game from his errors.
He might be the 'greatest' because of his trophy cabinet because he scored goals but 'best', not a chance. Any other top club would have sold the clown for making the number of errors he does.
He's not even a top 10 centre back at the moment let alone of all time. Putting that clown's name next to even Rio is quite simply embarrassing, let alone Baresi, Nesta, Maldini and the rest.
I think the difference is Ramos is solid when he wants to be, even if David Luis doesn't come out of position he'll be leaky. I remember when Suarez nutmegged Luiz and put it in the top corner, I think if that had of been Ramos Suarez would of been taken out, doing several rolls.
Goals from a defender are nothing but a bonus. A defenders first job is to defend. And Ramos is not very good at defending...
Talking about mistakes,
The last CL game Ramos lost was in May 2015 against Juventus. The other 2 CL games MAdrid lost over the past 4 seasons were against Juve last year and Ajax a few months ago. Ramos didn't play in any of them.
The last CL game Ramos lost was in May 2015 against Juventus. The other 2 CL games MAdrid lost over the past 4 seasons were against Juve last year and Ajax a few months ago. Ramos didn't play in any of them.
He also didn't treat El Classicos as big games for some reason.
Full backs and central defenders are different animals when it comes to defending. FB's are meant to attack and keep the width. We rate FB's on both their attacking and defending. Central defense however is a different beast. A central defenders first and most important task is to defend. And this is where Ramos falls short over and over again. He is more like David Luis than any world class central defenders...
I think he's one of the best around. Not just for his defending, which probably is a tier below the likes of Ferdinand, but his class on the ball and most of all, his passion and intensity. You can't teach that.
I always remember that game they were losing 5-0 against Barcelona, he smashed Messi, fought with half the Barca team and got sent off. People say it's losing his head but imo it shows that you give a shit. Players like that are what separate the best teams from the good ones, would've loved to have had him at United
I always remember that game they were losing 5-0 against Barcelona, he smashed Messi, fought with half the Barca team and got sent off. People say it's losing his head but imo it shows that you give a shit. Players like that are what separate the best teams from the good ones, would've loved to have had him at United
That's very harsh, he might not be Vidic but he's definitely not David Luiz level. Being at the heart of 4 CLs in 5 years in a defensively strong Madrid side would attest to that.
He and Pepe are one of my favourite Cb pairings ever. So aggressive, to an insane level at times. You have to take into account how exposed they were with the way Madrid have played over the years, high up the pitch, little cover, often left 2 v2 with tough decisions. Guys like Godin and Cheilieni, great defenders, would never have survived playing in that style.
This is the point than @Andersonson made as well and it's weird how often it is missed. I love Vidic as the next United fan but I am not sure he could play the way Real or Spain play. Add Terry, Gódin and Chiellini to the list. The one season AVB tried to play a high line made Terry look like a clown and the same would apply to many of the so called "pure" defenders. Defending for a team like Real Madrid is easily a more difficult job to do than for an Italian team or the English sides of the '00s and the fact that Ramos was an essential part of that makes him an easy contender for best defender of his generation.
The likes of Hummels, Pique Boateng have also won major trophies playing in high lines.
Mental mental thread.
History will look positively upon him; rightly so.
History will look positively upon him; rightly so.
Ramos is one of the all time greats. Anyone thinking otherwise is just salty for whatever reason.
Ramos excells in:
-Number trophies won
-Number of goals scored
-Number od red cards gathered
-Number of crucial goala scored
-Ability to defend one on one (which people dismiss and compare him to likes of Bonucci or Pique and similar players 2 times below his standard who spent their careers playing in a system that is way less demanding for a CB)
-and he's got charisma
Dude is absoultely awesome.
Ramos excells in:
-Number trophies won
-Number of goals scored
-Number od red cards gathered
-Number of crucial goala scored
-Ability to defend one on one (which people dismiss and compare him to likes of Bonucci or Pique and similar players 2 times below his standard who spent their careers playing in a system that is way less demanding for a CB)
-and he's got charisma
Dude is absoultely awesome.
Yes and they also qualify as contenders for that discussion. Ramos has the edge for his leadership qualities though I think. On the other hand, his disciplinary record and tendency to lose his temper counts against him. My point is to criticize his defending and compare it to the likes of Vidic, Terry or Gódin is like comparing a winger whose specialty is to hug the touchline to the inside wingers that are more common nowadays. It's two very different jobs and in the case of defending, what Ramos, Piqué or Hummels do is not just different, but more difficult and rarer to shine in.
this shows his quality? Could he have channeled his "giving a shit" into keeping the scoreline respectable? Sums up the faffing over him to be fair.
Yeah and him being the ultimate big game player only works if you pretend matches against Barcelona are not big games.
Sums up the faffing over him to be fair.
Not taking anything away from his teams accomplishments, but they didn't win anything because of his defensive abilities. It was all about offense. And yes, David Luis is the perfect example of what type of player he is. He's a very good footballer, just not a good central defender. You can try all you want, but you won't change my mind. I was so glad when we didn't sign him like we were rumoured to a couple years ago...
But don't you think Barcelona did the same, if not worse to pretty much any defender you can think of? The only difference is he had the misfortune of having to play them more often. The only time defenders did well against them is when the entire team was camped in their final third behind the ball like Inter or Chelsea or when they were pressed aggressively that their attackers barely had a sniff of the ball. Two things that Real just won't and can't do in that order.
I think he is easily one of the best defenders of his generation but this example is actually the one legitimate argument against him. It does not show passion or intensity or whatever, it shows lack of emotional control. Also, no, that is not the difference between good and best teams. There are many examples of elite teams past and present, a prime example of which, Barcelona, who dominated without having a lunatic looking for fights and getting himself sent off when things aren't going their way.
No, at his peak he was one of the best, if not the best CB about. No question for me.
He contributed greatly to one of better periods of Real Madrid's existence and you can present him last Champions League trophy so he can take it home, because without his aggression and determination this could be very difficult final for Galacticos.
As many people said in this thread, history will remember him and rightly so, but also for amount of things he achieved outside his club.
As many people said in this thread, history will remember him and rightly so, but also for amount of things he achieved outside his club.
It shows his mentality.. wanting to win and hating to lose. The Roy Keane mentality.
Sums up the faffing over him to be fair.
Also arguing over his quality is also harsh, given that he's excellent with the ball at his feet, excellent at headers, and very good at defending a high line. To argue otherwise is very disingenuous.
I think it's a mentality thing - and imo mentality plays a huge role in big matches. Personally if my team was getting spanked 5-0, I'd much rather one of our players get sent off for showing passion rather than meekly accepting it. It shows to the world that you think the team should be more than this.
I knows it's a pretty niche way of thinking, it's just how I think of it. And tbf to Ramos, he has toned in down in years subsequent, and has been unlucky with a fair few undeserved reds against Barca since (I remember a Neymar dive in particular).
So we are now praising a player for getting sent off in a match they were getting destroyed in?
As I said - it's just my opinion. He's always shown an insane desire to win - it's the trait I like most about him.
Also that was in 2011 or something - a fair few years before Madrid got the likes of Modric, Kroos, Bale, Carvajal etc in and hit their prime.
Ramos is one of the best CB in the last 10 yrs, but one of the all time greats? hell no!!
Why there are so many overrated / underrated threads? How many players people actually consider fairly rated?
Ramos used to be extremely overrated around 2013 or so. Constantly caught out of position, but being a galactico he was rated regardless. Now after his important role in the (albeit flattered) CL hattrick by real madrid I cannot argue against him anymore. He is one of the best defenders of this generation, along with the likes of indeed VVD and also peak Boeteng, who seems to be highly underrated in this threat.
Don't think that's true at all. Since I watched them more regularly (post Mourinho), they were open to counters more frequently than any other elite team. Often it were the CBs who had to break that up, and Ramos was an instrumental piece in somehow holding it together over many years. Of course it didn't work out all the time, and he did many stupid things as well, but his and his partners' defensive responsibilities were pretty immense.