maybe tibet/xinjiang is a better comparison then.
Kashmir
- Thread starter 2cents
- Start date
they are now a union territory (forgot to put that in the original post) - they are not even being treated equally.
and (as we all know) there was never a plebiscite, so it was their unelected (and not very popular) king,a Raj puppet, who made the decision.
Just like every other princely state.
Can you expand on this? I don't know what this means? What is a union territory?
There was no plebiscite when we got freedom. No state was offered that opportunity. I hope you remember how this was done in the first place, the horror of it.
Anyway, even Delhi is a UT, so is Goa, Pondi, and some others. They are doing fine and maybe this will help in the development of the state which has been ravaged by so much violence.
Tbf it's the case across most of the world, once you dig into their history.
Not saying it is right.
For detailed insight on Kashmir issue.
I think Ladakh will benefit the most because of this decision but also feel a lot of natural beauty of Ladakh will go away due to commercialisation of the place
From memory:
Union territories are usually governed by the central (Union) govt. Their state legislatures have limited power, and recently in Delhi (a UT itself) the controversial state govt which has a has a 65-5 majority in the state house, had many of its plans and laws stalled or scrapped by the centre (which needs to give assent to anything the state govt of a union territory does). Some UTs don't have state govts at all and are ruled directly by a centrally appointed governor.
Yes but the freedom struggle was active in every one of them and there was and is no serious separatist movement in any of them that I'm aware of. That's not a coincidence.
Plebiscite of what? Whether the raj should continue?
It’s same in Himachal,Arunachal,Mizoram,Manipur and Nagaland. So why just revoke from Kashmir?
Khalistan?
Your were talking about princely states.
Iirc, Punjab had a vote in 1946 (unlike j&k) and the western part voted for Muslim league and Eastern for Congress.
Akalis got few seats.
This is equivalent to trump saying both sides have bad people.
Not necessarily against this move but the way it has been introduced has been reprehensible. Have a proper debate atleast ffs rather than giving them just a hour.
Kejriwal is supporting the govt's move. That should tell everything what the general opinion of that article was.
Don't think any princely state had a vote.
Wonder how much did Trump's statement about being asked to mediate on the Kashmir issue, forced the Government's hand in pushing this through during this parliamentary session.
This has become a new norm. Many bills in last few days have been pushed without any scrutiny from parliamentary committee.
Where have I heard this before...
Forget scrutiny there hasn't been debate. They've clear majority in both the houses(by seat management in RS). Why not have a proper debate? The opposition can't stop you anyways.
Yes I am under no illusions that 370 was hated by the vast majority of indians.
Hyderabad, Goa... and these are the big ones.
Each State's ruler (not the people) had the choice of whether to join India, join Pakistan or remain independent. Hyd chose Pak and was overrun by Patel (good decision of course), Goa stayed under the Portuguese and Kashmir remained independent till Pakistan attacked it with intent to conquer. Balochistan was also conquered by Pakistan.
Good example. Also, like I said, Goa and Hyderabad are relevant examples from the time period of Partition itself.
All had a choice. Outlined it above.
Discriminatory provision that led to genocide and a state within a state was hated by vast majority. Quel surprise.
There was an indigenous freedom movement in Goa. I never met him but my grandfather helped organise it.
In Hyderabad the nizam used his razakars to brutally suppress popular movements, and we correctly intervened.
Again, not comparable to j&k
Vote as in the choice to the people if they want to join india, pakistan or remain independent.
J&K of when? I didn't compare the situations by the bye. Merely highlighted the situation of choice of ruler vs the result etc.
And J&K of pre-KP genocide would easily have a very different view to the one there today.
Now too, Jammu alone would go with this - while Kashmir valley may have a different view. Why does everyone think that the Kashmir valley represents all of J&K and that today's Kashmir valley represents what is right? Would KPs - including those "removed as state residents" on account of marrying outside the community (like my wife) get a vote?
Pedantic perhaps - but you said "Don't think any princely state had a vote."
I just highlighted that each "princely state" did get a choice/vote - but it was restricted to the choice of the ruler alone and had nothing to do with popular opinion.
Yes. If you only had read the entire discussion then you would have known in what context 'vote' was being discussed.
I always read - and then choose the pedantic interpretation anyway if there's even the slightest doubt. Wife does suspect mild Asperger's so that's my defense (and it would hold up in Court, I assume)
.I know which lawyer will represent you so yeah I atleast agree with that
I always read - and then choose the pedantic interpretation anyway if there's even the slightest doubt. Wife does suspect mild Asperger's so that's my defense (and it would hold up in Court, I assume)
Sure, I think they should get a vote.
I have no idea whether they represent what is right. I think they have the right to decide for themselves, which has never happened.
I'm still confused why you brought up Hyderabad since we did the opposite in j/k and hyd (and I think we did the correct thing in hyd)
Is there any logical reason why this needed the Yatra to be stopped and such rapid action overnight.
In that case, by your own logic, the government is simply righting the wrong of the past.
No? We are solidifying the wrong thing we did m
Independence day is coming, some material for chest thumping would be required I suppose...
Or are your arguing that the Indian army is going to welcomed as liberators now?
Hold on for the worlds first nuclear war where both parties have nukes.