De Gea makes our defensive midfielders look bad?

[Marcus]

It struck me that both Matic (vs AC) and Fred (vs Wolves) got absolutely cremated for losing the ball due to poor ball control and thereafter costing goals. But De Gea was the one who passed the ball straight to them (as opposed to slightly diagonal) just beyond the centre of the penalty box facing United's goal for both instances (if I recall correctly). In such a situation, the defensive mid has no visibility of what is behind them and increases the chances of losing the ball. Should De Gea be passing to better positioned players or am I spewing nonsense? Of course it doesn't excuse our players from not being able to control the ball under pressure. But still, is this the equivalent of a hospital ball?

 

[bosnian_red]

The pass was fine. Both players should have a much better awareness of what's around them and should be able to control simple passes. They get 100% of the blame.

As for the question in the thread title, no, our defenders, defensive midfield and tactical defensive structure made our defence look bad.

 

[Ramshock]

no /thread

 

[shamans]

If you can, please post those videos. A fair amount of people would have forgotten that by now and starting a thread against De Gea on the caf is a bit blasphemous so don't think you'll get a proper response here.

 

[Marcus]

This was Matic vs Milan (see 1:07)

 

[WR10]

Jesus Christ. This is not the Sunday league.
Scott has never struggled with a pass from that exact position.

You take a quick look around, map the players around you and then position your body quickly to the pass and decide the direction of your first touch or if you’re going to pass it off to a CB/GK with your first touch. Of course, if you back your own ability you would take it on a turn and dribble through the 2 pressing players. It’s fecking basic stuff. You can’t be making excuses for mediocrity. EDIT: feck me I just watched that Matic feck up from the Milan game again. That was a horrendous first touch - he bubbled it into the air and had to take a second touch to get it out of his feet. It was a perfect pass from DDG. Enough pace on it to let it run ahead a lil bit, give it a stretched first touch feint and run off into open space. I can’t believe I’m having to talk Matic through simple football skills If I remember correctly Wes Brown went on to commentate putting blame on DDG for that pass which is why I think anyone on here is actually blaming DDG. Wes is a garbage commentator, so half assed with his statements and of course he would blame the GK in that position as a defender

The whole point of that pass is that you bank on your DMs skill to completely demolish the opponents press by breaking their front line and outnumbering them.

Matic needs a walker these days. Fred fecked up that pass once or twice last season but has not done it since. Perreira has fecked it up a few times too but he has shockingly bad mental RPM and gets caught dwelling all over the field.

 

[Marcus]

Jesus Christ. This is not the Sunday league.
Scott has never struggled with a pass from that exact position.

You take a quick look around, map the players around you and then position your body quickly to the pass and decide the direction of your first touch or if you’re going to pass it off to a CB/GK with your first touch. Of course, if you back your own ability you would take it on a turn and dribble through the 2 pressing players. It’s fecking basic stuff. You can’t be making excuses for mediocrity. EDIT: feck me I just watched that Matic feck up from the Milan game again. That was a horrendous first touch. It was a perfect pass from DDG. Enough pace on it to let it run ahead a lil bit, give it a stretched first touch feint and run off into open space. I can’t believe I’m having to talk Matic through simple football skills

The whole point of that pass is that you bank on your DMs skill to completely demolish the opponents press by breaking their front line and outnumbering them.

Matic needs a walker these days. Fred fecked up that pass once or twice last season but has not done it since. Perreira has fecked it up a few times too but he has shockingly bad mental RPM and gets caught dwelling all over the field.

I agree that as pros you need to do better, but for the Matic ball, Matic has no idea who is behind him. He had to take a touch rather than risk letting the ball run and just turn. Could have been a player behind him. All he sees is 2 players in front of him and they have already begun accelerating towards him.

 

[RedTiger]

Pass was fine, matic needed to turn quicker and not let the ball get away from his slightly shit touch.

 

[roonster09]

This was Matic vs Milan (see 1:07)

Pass was fine. Matic lacked good touch and agility there.

 

[lawliet354]

Any other competent DM would never have any problem receiving those balls. If a team have DM incapable of coping with pressure like that then the team shouldn't play possession football.

 

[manunited1919]

Jesus Christ. This is not the Sunday league.
Scott has never struggled with a pass from that exact position.

You take a quick look around, map the players around you and then position your body quickly to the pass and decide the direction of your first touch or if you’re going to pass it off to a CB/GK with your first touch. Of course, if you back your own ability you would take it on a turn and dribble through the 2 pressing players. It’s fecking basic stuff. You can’t be making excuses for mediocrity. EDIT: feck me I just watched that Matic feck up from the Milan game again. That was a horrendous first touch - he bubbled it into the air and had to take a second touch to get it out of his feet. It was a perfect pass from DDG. Enough pace on it to let it run ahead a lil bit, give it a stretched first touch feint and run off into open space. I can’t believe I’m having to talk Matic through simple football skills If I remember correctly Wes Brown went on to commentate putting blame on DDG for that pass which is why I think anyone on here is actually blaming DDG. Wes is a garbage commentator, so half assed with his statements and of course he would blame the GK in that position as a defender

The whole point of that pass is that you bank on your DMs skill to completely demolish the opponents press by breaking their front line and outnumbering them.

Matic needs a walker these days. Fred fecked up that pass once or twice last season but has not done it since. Perreira has fecked it up a few times too but he has shockingly bad mental RPM and gets caught dwelling all over the field.

We are fecked if these are the midfielders for our season.

 

[RedCurry]

Pass was fine. Matic lacked good touch and agility there.

Yea that pass was fine. Another midfielder would either have a better touch and acceleration to start a counter or simply lay the ball off to McTominay with a one touch pass. I think the point of the thread is still up for debate but the example doesn’t showcase what the OP is trying to say.

 

[Marcus]

I guess I am a big softy. Agree that our expectations of our defensive midfielders should be higher.

 

[WR10]

I agree that as pros you need to do better, but for the Matic ball, Matic has no idea who is behind him. He had to take a touch rather than risk letting the ball run and just turn. Could have been a player behind him. All he sees is 2 players in front of him and they have already begun accelerating towards him.

I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt. So I will entertain that for a second. Let’s ignore everything I said about basic football skills.

Pause the frame when DDG is about to pass it to him. Matic has full vision of all the players and there’s nothing behind his back. He had:

1) a one touch softened pass to Scott.
2) one touch pass to a Rojo that has just taken a few steps back in preparation for that exact pass.
3) a simple first touch on the turn because his pressors are in front of him and not behind him.
4) let it run ahead because he should have already done a quick screen behind him anyway (like Herrera constantly does)
5) all other simple skills mentioned by my last post
6) Pogba would have pinned it first touch to Shaw as one of his options.

What did he choose to do? Look at the freeze frame as that ball was about to be passed. He literally dug his feet into the ground, squared, squatted and looked like he just shat himself. Lacked all kind of agility and he was so planted that he bubbled his first touch.

It was a colossal and embarrassing mistake.

 

[roonster09]

Yea that pass was fine. Another midfielder would either have a better touch and acceleration to start a counter or simply lay the ball off to McTominay with a one touch pass. I think the point of the thread is still up for debate but the example doesn’t showcase what the OP is trying to say.

Yeah, he had options and he tried to turn and start quick attack but lacked agility, so caught up in possession.

Yeah, you can argue on the point the thread. De gea not leaving the line was always a big problem but he looked bit different in preseason where he was out of his line on few occassions. He should play as sweeper keeper though, otherwise with highline we will concede many chances.

 

[Emrethis]

It struck me that both Matic (vs AC) and Fred (vs Wolves) got absolutely cremated for losing the ball due to poor ball control and thereafter costing goals. But De Gea was the one who passed the ball straight to them (as opposed to slightly diagonal) just beyond the centre of the penalty box facing United's goal for both instances (if I recall correctly). In such a situation, the defensive mid has no visibility of what is behind them and increases the chances of losing the ball. Should De Gea be passing to better positioned players or am I spewing nonsense? Of course it doesn't excuse our players from not being able to control the ball under pressure. But still, is this the equivalent of a hospital ball?

Yes. That was a 'fifa' pass, a pass made under the assumption that players never miscontrol a pass. But in real life, every player miscontrols a pass sometimes. Last time it was Fred, this time it was Matic, next time, it could be anyone. That's why you don't make risky passes in your own half, and De Gea's pass was an extremely risky pass that was completely unnecessary.

 

[clarkydaz]

He was caught 3 times in the first half alone, he will be targeted as our weak link for pressing

 

[Teffe]

Yes. That was a 'fifa' pass, a pass made under the assumption that players never miscontrol a pass. But in real life, every player miscontrols a pass sometimes. Last time it was Fred, this time it was Matic, next time, it could be anyone. That's why you don't make risky passes in your own half, and De Gea's pass was an extremely risky pass that was completely unnecessary.

This.

But to blame De Gea for bad midfielders as threadtitle is just hilarious... He's not a good ballplaying keeper, but I'm glad he's using preseason to practise it.

 

[11101]

When i saw De Gea line up to play that pass to Matic i thought wtf is he doing, the Milan players both saw it coming and were on him as he received the ball. He should have done better but just because a DM should be able to get out of that doesn't mean it wasn't a bad pass to begin with.

 

[Welbeckham]

There are certainly problems with De Gea, i’m not his biggest fan, but Fred and Matic being bad at football isn’t his fault. They often fail in situations that have nothing to do with our goalkeeper.

 

[lysglimt]

It struck me that both Matic (vs AC) and Fred (vs Wolves) got absolutely cremated for losing the ball due to poor ball control and thereafter costing goals. But De Gea was the one who passed the ball straight to them (as opposed to slightly diagonal) just beyond the centre of the penalty box facing United's goal for both instances (if I recall correctly). In such a situation, the defensive mid has no visibility of what is behind them and increases the chances of losing the ball. Should De Gea be passing to better positioned players or am I spewing nonsense? Of course it doesn't excuse our players from not being able to control the ball under pressure. But still, is this the equivalent of a hospital ball?

If Fred or Matic don't think they are in total control they should pass the ball back to deGea. None of the passes from DeGea were bad, so you can't blame him.

 

[TsuWave]

No. Our DMs are rubbish. Those passes were relatively easy to deal with

 

[M Bison]

Was a poor ball, Matic should have done better with it but DDG played it to a player on the edge of the box with 2 players around him.

I’m sure a Pirlo/Scholes would have dealt with it but why invite pressure there, makes no sense.

 

[Real Madras]

The top defensive midfielders can turn on a six pence. You essentially need to have eyes at the back of your head to play this position. You never let the ball run across you like Fred has done on many occasions and like Matic did against Milan. You will get punished for stuff like that against top opposition. We need to address that part of midfield with signing someone like Longstaff or even Declan Rice who I would pay 50m+ for.

 

[Mcking]

I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt. So I will entertain that for a second. Let’s ignore everything I said about basic football skills.

Pause the frame when DDG is about to pass it to him. Matic has full vision of all the players and there’s nothing behind his back. He had:

1) a one touch softened pass to Scott.
2) one touch pass to a Rojo that has just taken a few steps back in preparation for that exact pass.
3) a simple first touch on the turn because his pressors are in front of him and not behind him.
4) let it run ahead because he should have already done a quick screen behind him anyway (like Herrera constantly does)
5) all other simple skills mentioned by my last post
6) Pogba would have pinned it first touch to Shaw as one of his options.

What did he choose to do? Look at the freeze frame as that ball was about to be passed. He literally dug his feet into the ground, squared, squatted and looked like he just shat himself. Lacked all kind of agility and he was so planted that he bubbled his first touch.

It was a colossal and embarrassing mistake.

The problem though is Matic doesn't do one touches. He is so indecisive and lacking in agility. Get rid.

 

[World Game]

The best midfielders always know what is going on around them. I remember Xavi in his prime receiving many of these type of passes. He would constantly have a quick glance behind just before or as he is receiving the pass. By the time the ball reaches him, he already knows what he wants to do with it. Matic's lack of awareness is his own fault. Of course he has no vision behind him, because he never has the presence of mind to look behind him.

 

[Baxter]

If you’re wanting to play that way, the pass is fine. The first touch was bad, and the ball gets stuck under him meaning he can’t release the ball quick enough.

I’m not sure it’s really smart to use Matic like that, and it’s a reason why we need midfielders.

 

[RedStarUnited]

The Matic one was simple, pause the video as he receives it and you will see he could have just played a simple first time pass towards the right side of the team.

If you want to play out the back, you have to be able to take those passes.

 

[villain]

This was Matic vs Milan (see 1:07)

It was a poor pass, imo.
Especially since there were other options he could’ve passed to.
You can see the ball bounce about 1.5m before it reaches Matic, probably had a decent amount of spin on it too if you look at the way the ball spun up off Matic’s foot when he tried to stop it.

It’s all well & good saying the best players can control a ball in tight situations, which is absolutely true but it doesn’t mean they can control them in every situation all of the time - and in that situation De Gea had other options he should’ve used.

 

[Kostov]

This was Matic vs Milan (see 1:07)

It would have been a very fine pass if Matic was faster than an oil tanker turning. And Fred is just clumsy as most of the time.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The way I see it we have 3 problems playing out from the back:

1. Dea Gea - his passing just isn't good enough to beat a press when the easy route get blocked off. One trick that City use is Aguro dropping in to the centre circle and Ederson hitting a long straight ball to him.
2. Inadequate midfielders - we don't have the press resistant midfielders to collect the ball in tight spaces and move it on. I thnk the OP is misguided because if you want to play out from the back then your midfielders have to take difficult balls. I don't see how Longstaff would solve this problem.
3. Coaching - watch how City, Bayern Munich or countless other teams position their players when playing out from the back, when one player gets boxed in another one knows which space to drop into and make themselves available. We seem to have no such patterns.

Because of this too often we see the ball getting passed square along the back line before being punted up the line by Shaw.

 

[The Boy]

Pass was fine. Matic lacked good touch and agility there.

I think you're right about Matic but the pass was unnecessarily risky, DDG's distribution is one of the poorer sides of his game, passing between two attackers on the edge of your box like that is asking for trouble when you have an unmarked player out on the left who could have easily received the ball, bad decision making by DDG.

But you're right Matic could have dealt with it better

 

[::sonny::]

I have fear for every shot from long distance

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

To be fair, De Gea did him no favours by passing into pressure and Matic didn't do himself any either by letting the ball stick and then losing it. The correct pass out was possibly either of them playing into Rojo who was under no pressure.

 

[thepolice123]

It's just the wrong option for the pass. Matic did himself no favours by turning with the ball. Should have played it back first time.

 

[Bestietom]

We havn't got a DECENT DM here, much less a GOOD one. Bring in a top specialist DM and we will challenge.

 

[roonster09]

I think you're right about Matic but the pass was unnecessarily risky, DDG's distribution is one of the poorer sides of his game, passing between two attackers on the edge of your box like that is asking for trouble when you have an unmarked player out on the left who could have easily received the ball, bad decision making by DDG.

But you're right Matic could have dealt with it better

I think it was instructions, to build up play from the back instead of just kicking it long. We will have problems initially but we have to take the risk to move to next level.

 

[#07]

De Gea's passing is fine, he's not Xavi but he doesn't need to be. The pass that Matic messed up against Milan is the kind of pass Busquets handles without issues. We don't have a quality defensive midfielder who can take the ball off our defence and start our attacks.

 

[flappyjay]

It struck me that both Matic (vs AC) and Fred (vs Wolves) got absolutely cremated for losing the ball due to poor ball control and thereafter costing goals. But De Gea was the one who passed the ball straight to them (as opposed to slightly diagonal) just beyond the centre of the penalty box facing United's goal for both instances (if I recall correctly). In such a situation, the defensive mid has no visibility of what is behind them and increases the chances of losing the ball. Should De Gea be passing to better positioned players or am I spewing nonsense? Of course it doesn't excuse our players from not being able to control the ball under pressure. But still, is this the equivalent of a hospital ball?

Dont care what everyone else says, you assessment is right. The wolves was talked about last year wolves basically formed a square around our dm and as soon as Fred got the ball they swarmed him from all directions. Mind you Fred's control was appalling but De Gea should be chosing the best pass instead of playing hot potato. Fred gets 70% of the blame but De Gea gets some too.

 

[romufc]

Nothing wrong with De Gea's passing, the DM should be aware of what is around him, if he knows he has got time to turn he should but this should also be worked on in the training ground.
Man City's DM's either turn or play a first time ball to the full backs.