Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[bond19821982]

Much more calmer today. Should have won yesterday. Now that's 3 penalties in 2 weeks and 5 points dropped already. Well,we can't be unlucky all the weeks. So Will get it eventually right.

He needs to bring Matic in for the home matches where opponents sits too deep. We can ask Pogba to go up and make things happen. Also, see if we can try Dalot on right or left back.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Much more calmer today. Should have won yesterday. Now that's 3 penalties in 2 weeks and 5 points dropped already. Well,we can't be unlucky all the weeks. So Will get it eventually right.

He needs to bring Matic in for the home matches where opponents sits too deep. We can ask Pogba to go up and make things happen. Also, see if we can try Dalot on right or left back.

Dalot is injured, so depends how long he is out for.

 

[lysglimt]

That is all fair enough and you are quite right to point that out but until we sort our play out we can't and shouldn't rely on VAR to dig us out of a hole.

With or without VAR looking forwards if we continue with this slow passing and no movement or cutting edge type of football against defensive teams then we have a big problem.

This isn't a question of VAR digging us out of a hole - it's a question of a referee missing some horribly blatant offences. No, I stand corrected - he didn't even miss them, he saw them but didn't follow the rules

Twice yesterday - Palace denied us a likely goal - when Cahill brought down Rashford and when Kelly brought down Martial. Once the referee spotted but didn't give him a red (how on Earth he missed that - noone understands) - and Martials he deemed as a fair challenge.

As I said - we didn't play well - but we deserved to win. And if Cahill had been sent off after 40 minutes we would probably have won.

 

[Godfather]

Trying to update our footballing style and culture in the tactical modern age of 2019, by attempting to replicate the 90s and 00s motivational methods of a uniquely inspirational motivational manager, without that manager, was alwasy a pretty iffy recipie for success...

Liverpool’s decline was predicated on their slavish adherence to the “boot room”.... which fell apart when football changed in the 90s, and the old school ideologies of Souness and Evans simply didn’t cut it anymore.... yet for some baffling reason we’ve all convinced ourselves that the clubs failures under Mourhino and LVG (themselves antiquated - albeit high profile managers) was entirely down to them not being sufficiently “United” enough... which basically just meant “not Alex Ferguson”... or rather “not the subjectively mythical version of whichever of the many different Alex Ferguson sides we imagine had the most discernible style!”

You don't post enough these days.

As for the thread title: We shouldn't have given him that contract on the basis of some good games followed by some lucky games to begin with. Now it's too late. Back him this season and give him more funds in the summer. If he fails again he should be gone and with him the whole class of 92 bullshitters with him. Get Poch in with every guy he needs.

 

[bond19821982]

Dalot is injured, so depends how long he is out for.

Yeah I know. But I dont think he is ahead of young though.

 

[Ash_G]

You make your own luck though. A quality team creates too much for luck to go against you. A quality team creates a series of quality chances and takes them so that failure to give penalties or hitting the post on a penalty doesn’t matter, because we’re already 3 up.

We’re not a quality team. We’re in the 5th-8th bracket currently. That’s why we will draw and lose games we shouldn’t. It’s hard for some United fans to imagine having spent their whole lives watching United compete and win.

Sometimes though things just go against you regardless of if you as a manager do everything right e.g. I don't think anyone can blame Pep for City not beating Spurs last week, 9 times out of 10 they smash them based on their performance.

This doesn't mean OGS is blameless in any way as context is important I'm just saying that a lot of yesterday you can't plan for, these are things that just happen on the day.

 

[Yagami]

I didn't want him appointed in the end, and I'm not sold on him, but I really hope he's backed in January.

You can see some good ideas, and, at long last, we're attempting to coach an actual style of play, but there's only so much you can do when you have to rely on McTominay, Pereira, Mata, Lingard, James, etc

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yeah I know. But I dont think he is ahead of young though.

No. You wonder if it because he is a Jose signing.

 

[bond19821982]

No. You wonder if it because he is a Jose signing.

Not really. I would be over the moon if he starts. I see huge potential and will be a bigger hit than AWB. So let's see.

 

[Amerifan]

People wanting him sacked after three games (3!) needs to have a word with themselves and calm the feck down. Not much can be taken from last season. We went from tittle winning form to relegation form because of fitness issues and injuries so its not really a great benchmark

Lets see how the season pans out. If we are in a worse state in May, then yeah, he should leave, but sacking him now and start looking for a new manager is utterly senseless

This. Give him and the squad an opportunity to learn from their mistakes. If that doesn’t happen, then we can have a meaningful discussion about changes. But after every missed PK and lost or drawn game, no.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

In 2013/14, David Moyes famously claimed that Man United should "aspire to be like Man City" and would do our best to "make things difficult" for Newcastle.

Fans were disgusted with this lowering of standards, and rightly so.

In 2019, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer told United fans that finishing in the top 6 of the league in 19/20 would be a tall order and a battle.


A large portion of our fanbase nodded in agreement and bought new shirts from the club store.

I've said it before - Ed Woodward deserves some kind of knighthood or award for how he's slowly eroded any kind of standards we have and convinced us to accept mediocrity.

Bravo, Ed. Bravo.

 

[Enigma_87]

What James, Maguire and AWB have shown so far - any new manager not finding these players useful shouldnt be a manager. AWB has generally been our best player, Maguire has been solid apart from that one mistake yesterday and James has shown enough to indicate he will indeed be useful. That goal was superb

As Klopp and many others have shown a ‘weaker’ players on paper can do better than individually better players given used properly and in good conditions.

From what I see here many underestimate the effect a good manager has over even average at first look side.

 

[Lee565]

Whilst I want to back him as I believe a lot of the problems are out of his hands, the reality is he should not be near club like west ham let alone managing man United but how many other top managers are going to happily get on with the job when they have to contend with Woodward and the glazers screwing over the club.

 

[Foritfied]

I think we need to continue backing him, and that means giving him players that suit his system and the ethos of the club.

I was having a convo with a friend about this, as to why Lingard keeps getting the starts, and we both agreed that it is because he does everything that is asked of him. Despite his lack of quality, he'll do the running, begin the press, know his limits (sometimes).

Then I thought about Pogba, who has the quality that Lingard doesn't but likes to throw a tantrum. Yesterday, instead of tracking back when the ball was taken cleanly off of his feet, he screams at the ref, at his teammates, pounds the ground with his fists and laments that a decision dare go against him. We lost because of the side of Pogba we all know too well when things don't go his way.

We're in such a conundrum. If we did what some want and sold Pogba to Madrid, we'd be cash rich but quality poor, especially with the inane English transfer window being closed before everyone elses. We could only use the funds in future windows. We'd also have a hard time convincing quality players of the project, but I think we've already had a mare of that this summer. But as we know, Pogba has the talent, but he doesn't have the correct attitude to pull us to where we need to be. Jose saw this, I am hoping Ole can turn his attitude around, but if he cannot, then he should be sold and have the funds to rebuild a team in his image, with the club ethos as the guide.

 

[Beaucoup]

How?

Shit recruitment, selling your best striker without a replacement & hoping what you have left is enough, is the equivalent of spinning a roulette wheel and is not a coherent transfer strategy for a club of our size.

 

[Ban]

Shit recruitment, selling your best striker without a replacement & hoping what you have left is enough, is the equivalent of spinning a roulette wheel and is not a coherent transfer strategy for a club of our size.

You think he wanted a transfer window like that?

 

[Jericholyte2]

So, flip side of all the other negative knee-jerk reactions, who wants Poch now???

 

[Andycoleno9]

You think he wanted a transfer window like that?

I see that for you coach is not guilty for anything. It is the players, Ed, board, bad luck, Mourinho, Pogba, ref....everything except coach.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

I wonder if they're throwing their toys out of the pram in the Spurs forum quite as much after today? And Poch being everyone's choice here too....

 

[clarkydaz]

Shit recruitment, selling your best striker without a replacement & hoping what you have left is enough, is the equivalent of spinning a roulette wheel and is not a coherent transfer strategy for a club of our size.

the board conveniently sold lukaku on the last day of the window

 

[Enigma_87]

You think he wanted a transfer window like that?

A serious question. Who is the one that decides whether the young players are ready? Woodward or Ole?

If he doesn't believe those young players are not ready you think you can't bring 2-3 senior players as a stop gap? Even the likes of Mandzukic or bargains like Ziyech who have less than 30m release fee and would no doubt make a step up?

Do you honestly believe the board will veto a stop gap that would be worth next to nothing or even a loan for 4-5m per season?

 

[Lee565]

I wonder if they're throwing their toys out of the pram in the Spurs forum quite as much after today? And Poch being everyone's choice here too....

Talk about an over reaction, guides spurs to top 4 and the champions league final without a single signing made during the season but yeah one loss in a new season with 35 games still to be played now makes it such terrible idea to have wanted potchettino here at United

 

[Enigma_87]

the board conveniently sold lukaku on the last day of the window

After Ole saying pretty much the whole summer that Greenwood and the likes will get more minutes and Lukaku was known to be off since the start of the transfer window.

That's pretty naive way of thinking that the manager couldn't veto that deal or didn't know Lukaku will be off in the summer.

 

[momo83]

He isn’t an outstanding manager. He’s similar to Roy Hodgson in that he sets his team up to stink out the place and counter. He’s an underdog side manager and his style is the opposite of what we want.

Top teams in Europe rarely appoint “outstanding” managers. They usually appoint people who have proven their excellence at smaller clubs. People probably only see Wolves when they play the top 4 sides + United and naturally drop deep and counter.

Also people talking about “the board sold Lukaku and screwed Ole... no, Ole sold Lukaku and new from months ago he wanted him out, fact deal happened so late doesn’t matter.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Top teams in Europe rarely appoint “outstanding” managers. They usually appoint people who have proven their excellence at smaller clubs. People probably only see Wolves when they play the top 4 sides + United and naturally drop deep and counter.

They struggle a lot more against weaker sides like they have done today because the onus on them is to play football more. After Mourinho there is no way that we want a manager like Nuno or Allegri. It's literally the style we are trying to get away from. United have often been a great counter attacking team but that doesn't mean you have to park the bus.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

Talk about an over reaction, guides spurs to top 4 and the champions league final without a single signing made during the season but yeah one loss in a new season with 35 games still to be played now makes it such terrible idea to have wanted potchettino here at United

What's an over reaction is all the knee jerking on here. How much time has Pochettino had? And this was Newcastle - at home.

I'm not saying I wouldn't want him here. I'm saying give Solksjaer time.

 

[PaulScores]

As a neutral fan. I must say this is the first time in many years I am impressed with United. Finally they want to built a young team without spending way too much money on bad old players. And yes, this takes time. But it's the best thing that has happened since Ferguson by fay.

The results aren't there yet, but I am also impressed with Ole. He really wants to built on long term and also shows in other aspects that he is a very talented manager. As a United fan, I would be relieved after all those years.


I love the tactic:

De Gea (Spa, 28)

Wan-Bissaka (Eng, 21) - Lindelöf (Swe, 25) - Maguire (Eng, 26) - Shaw (Eng, 24)

Pogba (Fra, 26) - McTominay (Sco, 22)
Lingard (Eng, 26)

James (Wal, 21) - Martial (Fra, 23) - Rashford (Eng, 21)


It reminds me of a starting Alex Ferguson. Only problem is that the number 10 position is vital in this, and I think Lingard is not enough if you want to win the PL title. But Pereira (Bra, 23) could help a lot. And maybe buy a young world class 10.

 

[Enigma_87]

What's an over reaction is all the knee jerking on here. How much time has Pochettino had? And this was Newcastle - at home.

You know that there is a tiny little difference between those two managers you are comparing - Poch has qualified Spurs for CL 4 out of 5 attempts and played a CL final.

The other has literally no credibility at top level and the last time he managed a team in a top league relegated it.

Poch gets time because he has earned it and has proven himself on multiple occasions for Spurs.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

You know that there is a tiny little difference between those two managers you are comparing - Poch has qualified Spurs for CL 4 out of 5 attempts and played a CL final.

The other has literally no credibility at top level and the last time he managed a team in a top league relegated it.

Poch gets time because he has earned it and has proven himself on multiple occasions for Spurs.

Did he get time after 13 or so games from people such as yourself? After he arrived from Southampton? Hopefully so.

 

[Enigma_87]

Did he get time after 13 or so games from people such as yourself? After he arrived from Southampton? Hopefully so.

Poch career so far is on upward trajectory and how it should be. He began his career at Espanyol and had 2 good seasons and was appreciated as young and good manager. Later he went to Soton making the biggest point tally of the club since Prem and finishing 8th. Then he went to Tottenham who were not a club that requires top 4 each year.

Poch didn't trampoline his career after managing 10 years in wilderness because he played for the club as a player. So far his achievement and development are on merit and making the step up from Spurs to United, Chelsea, City, Barcelona type of club is a natural progression.

This is why he gets time - because he has bought it with performances, with ideas, with team building. And he has done it in one of the most competitive leagues in the world.

When you compare like that - he has much bigger chance to make it at the top club and also the probability that after 2-3-4 years the team would have developed and have clear identity.

You don't give time to managers like Moyes for example because after 4-5 years what you probably get is mediocrity.

Ole so far in his career hasn't "bought" himself time to experiment at a top club for 2-3 years, because if you let that happen you will have much tougher process of getting your team back on top. You saw how many years it took for Liverpool you are witnessing it now with Milan.

Some say we shouldn't fire managers when they are underperforming because we will look like Madrid.

Yes because they are doing pretty bad these last decades doing that don't they?

Also those experiments are pretty expensive. Imagine Ole was "backed" with all those signings he wanted.

Dybala doesn't work out as he is not physically cut for the league or it just is not a good fit. Longstaff proves to be not worth it at 50m pounds. Bruno might not adjust to the league at 50-60m pounds.

Then you have another team of underperforming players managed by a clueless manager, hit the reset button again or wait 4 more years of hovering around the 4th spot Arsenal style just because he has good ideas but none of them are backed with results on the pitch?

 

[ScarleyUtd]

Poch career so far is on upward trajectory and how it should be. He began his career at Espanyol and had 2 good seasons and was appreciated as young and good manager. Later he went to Soton making the biggest point tally of the club since Prem and finishing 8th. Then he went to Tottenham who were not a club that requires top 4 each year.

Poch didn't trampoline his career after managing 10 years in wilderness because he played for the club as a player. So far his achievement and development are on merit and making the step up from Spurs to United, Chelsea, City, Barcelona type of club is a natural progression.

This is why he gets time - because he has bought it with performances, with ideas, with team building. And he has done it in one of the most competitive leagues in the world.

When you compare like that - he has much bigger chance to make it at the top club and also the probability that after 2-3-4 years the team would have developed and have clear identity.

You don't give time to managers like Moyes for example because after 4-5 years what you probably get is mediocrity.

Ole so far in his career hasn't "bought" himself time to experiment at a top club for 2-3 years, because if you let that happen you will have much tougher process of getting your team back on top. You saw how many years it took for Liverpool you are witnessing it now with Milan.

Some say we shouldn't fire managers when they are underperforming because we will look like Madrid.

Yes because they are doing pretty bad these last decades doing that don't they?

What you're saying is he had a better record than Ole as a manager, when he arrived at Spurs. Fair enough, but – he was still a punt. Southampton are a well-run club and have been for years. Koeman did well there too.

Expectations were also lower at Spurs, so he was given time. Which proves my point. Whether Ole succeeds or not is up for debate, and time will tell, but not after 13 games. That's worse than Madrid level knee-jerkery.

And why should we be like Madrid? There are many reasons other than a revolving door manager policy why they are successful. A weak league, politics and warm weather being just a few! Look back at the history of United and whenever we've tried to operate like that it's failed. Post Busby and post Fergie.

So some understanding of the club is important. It isn't nostalgia – it's why LVG and Maureen didn't work.

 

[bleedred]

I have defended him over the end of last season and the summer. To me last year was a write off, a time for him to get to know the players and implement his tactics for this season.

I don’t buy this, 3 wins in 15 non sense. This year was a fresh start. Whether he was backed in the market or not, is a different issue. To me all I wanted to see was an improvement from last year and him stamping his authority on the team and showing his vision.

Do I believe we have enough quality players in the squad, no?.At the end of the day, even with any squad, for us at home to create as little chances as we did yesterday against palace is inexcusable. I am sorry, if your tactics is not going to create clear cut chances against a mid-bottom half team, it’s completely unacceptable for Manchester United and that has to be completely on the manager.

I don’t expect him to come out and say what his strategy is and how we are going to play the game, it has to be visible on the field and so far I am not seeing any clear evidence of how we are going to create clear goal scoring chances. It’s all well and clear saying that we need quality players. But a sign of a good manager is to get the most out of what he has and I strongly think that ole is not getting that out of our team. Like I said, no one can win the title with this team, but many can make this team better so as to be cohesive and create goal scoring chances against feckin palace at home.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Lampard is 25/1 and Ole is 10/1 for sack. How? We are the club who wait long enough to sack manager and Chelsea is....well it is Chelsea. Roman loves to sack manager

 

[GazTheLegend]

Lampard is 25/1 and Ole is 10/1 for sack. How? We are the club who wait long enough to sack manager and Chelsea is....well it is Chelsea. Roman loves to sack manager

More people bet on us because we have more global interest, so our odds are always shorter on most things. We're probably shorter odds to win the premier league than Chelsea too, so figure that one out.

 

[Enigma_87]

What you're saying is he had a better record than Ole as a manager, when he arrived at Spurs. Fair enough, but – he was still a punt. Southampton are a well-run club and have been for years. Koeman did well there too.

Expectations were also lower at Spurs, so he was given time. Which proves my point. Whether Ole succeeds or not is up for debate, and time will tell, but not after 13 games. That's worse than Madrid level knee-jerkery.

And why should we be like Madrid? There are many reasons other than a revolving door manager policy why they are successful. A weak league, politics and warm weather being just a few! Look back at the history of United and whenever we've tried to operate like that it's failed. Post Busby and post Fergie.

So some understanding of the club is important. It isn't nostalgia – it's why LVG and Maureen didn't work.

So in essence we now have to lower the expectation of United as a club to Everton level to give him more time? Yes, that makes sense..

And no, at no time having 3 wins in 15 is worse than Madrid's "knee-jerkery". May I remind you that they have had 3 managers just last season and fired Lopetegui after 14 games.

You are looking in the past and expect what worked 30 years ago will work now. You can either look at reality and in the future or fall down to past glory and antiquated methods.

Some understanding of the club is important - Fergie was responsible for all football related stuff, hence the manager, without the proper structure will still be responsible for all football related stuff. And no you don't give that monumental job to a rookie.

You keep looking in the past, yet if you want to stay competitive you have to see what and how other clubs operate. Otherwise you can be prepared for Liverpool level of "success" in the last 30 years in the league.

 

[clarkydaz]

After Ole saying pretty much the whole summer that Greenwood and the likes will get more minutes and Lukaku was known to be off since the start of the transfer window.

That's pretty naive way of thinking that the manager couldn't veto that deal or didn't know Lukaku will be off in the summer.

On pre season Ole said if players go they need to be replaced

 

[Enigma_87]

On pre season Ole said if players go they need to be replaced

Hence he had a whole window to get a CF as he definitely knew Lukaku is off. We were linked with Mandzukic and Dybala - only after the swap deal presented itself on us as an opportunity.

He put Martial up top and said Greenwood will feature a lot. This leads to believe that he didn't intend to replace him in the first place leaving us short in that department and dependent on 17 years old.

 

[clarkydaz]

Hence he had a whole window to get a CF as he definitely knew Lukaku is off. We were linked with Mandzukic and Dybala - only after the swap deal presented itself on us as an opportunity.

He put Martial up top and said Greenwood will feature a lot. This leads to believe that he didn't intend to replace him in the first place leaving us short in that department and dependent on 17 years old.

Then you have underlined the point. No player was coming in unless it involved the Lukakau deal. You think Ole was waiting all summer till the last few days of the window to bring in Mandzukic or Dybala?

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Hence he had a whole window to get a CF as he definitely knew Lukaku is off. We were linked with Mandzukic and Dybala - only after the swap deal presented itself on us as an opportunity.

He put Martial up top and said Greenwood will feature a lot. This leads to believe that he didn't intend to replace him in the first place leaving us short in that department and dependent on 17 years old.

Erm, it's been pretty widely reported we still tried to sign Mandzukic after the other deal fell through but we couldn't agree terms. Ole's also mentioned several times in interviews that he thinks we're a bit light up top even with Alexis still here. He's also been careful not to throw youngsters in the deep end but ease them in instead. You're delusional if you think this is what Ole wants.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

So in essence we now have to lower the expectation of United as a club to Everton level to give him more time? Yes, that makes sense..

That's clearly not I was saying. I was talking about Spurs for a start in that instance. So I'm not sure you're really grasping what I'm saying.

And you want to be like Madrid - so ok you proved your point there. Let's sack a manager every 10 games then and see if that works shall we?

This club has been through this cycle before. And it has solved it the same way before. It's nothing to do with outdated methods. It's to do with all manner of things that are unique to this club: location, history, a belief in young players, and yes patience. Which is how the OT Trafford crowd has always been. Instead of booing players like Madrid do at a moment's notice. Like many in the caf, in fact. If you don't get that, you don't get the club.