Can't really comment on that mate. Some of those players had release clauses so really we couldn't have been quoted for more than that. Although I do not underestimate Woodward somehow managing to pay more than their release clause.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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If Woodward has been tasked with bringing in money for the Glazers then he is doing what his employer has asked him to. The buck stops with the Glazers.
woody doesn't believe in release clauses, takes away the fun in negotiating
Mourinho a "world class" manager but never suited United. It looked like a great idea on paper to bring him in and I think a lot of people had an illusion that once mourinho was hired we where automatically back to our best. Mourinho as a manager wants instant success and he doesn't care how he achieves it, he himself knew he would be no longer then 3/4 years at United (His transfers where never investments for future it was a quick fix to make him look great). He came to United at a time where we (still are) in transition/re-building mode he wasn't there to be a real part of this re-build he came in looking to get us back to winning ways in 2/3 seasons when this happened he was now considered the greatest manager ever he would then have a falling out with the board/club leave on his own terms with his reputation grown even stronger and walk into another job and repeat the cycle.
Instead he couldn't pull it off knew he wasn't going to turn it around, signed a new contract that he knew he was going to get a big pay-day out of because he wasn't going to be able to turn it around and then get sacked (this was to offset the damage done to his reputation) he tried his hardest to make himself sackable (falling out with Pogba, digs at the board and a poor style of football).
Mourinho is selfish always has been, think about the press conferences and the dealing with the media he was so far up himself that he never really cared about United he had a motive at United and now it didn't go to plan he still is walking away 20 million pounds richer. Calculated, Clever and Selfish the best way to sum him up.
Instead he couldn't pull it off knew he wasn't going to turn it around, signed a new contract that he knew he was going to get a big pay-day out of because he wasn't going to be able to turn it around and then get sacked (this was to offset the damage done to his reputation) he tried his hardest to make himself sackable (falling out with Pogba, digs at the board and a poor style of football).
Mourinho is selfish always has been, think about the press conferences and the dealing with the media he was so far up himself that he never really cared about United he had a motive at United and now it didn't go to plan he still is walking away 20 million pounds richer. Calculated, Clever and Selfish the best way to sum him up.
Ole isn't with a team of champions who he's dropping to 7th. Even if Ole did a deliberate sabotage like Jose he still would have a better season than Moyes. After only a few months of being crowned PL champions he was talking about "we aspire to be like City/Liverpool" hold on a minute!? We just lifted the title a few months ago, why are you talking like an underdog when we're the current holders! What an absolute buffoon he was.
Unless your oil backed, no rational club would spend 200m+ in 3 consecutive seasons without raising funds through selling players. He got Alexis Sanchez in January and still spent 80m+ for Fred and Dalot the next summer FFS. This isn’t FIFA or Football Manager. There isn’t an endless pit of money to spend on playing staff.
I won‘t even get started with what Poch did with Spurs last season.
I‘m glad that the most fervent Jose supporters shut their mouths after last season. Some of the excuses those posters made for him is embarrassing to say the least.
I clearly said a couple of years.
His signings have been good, with an eye on a 3-8 year time frame not ‘This year we’ll get closer’.
If we had another two seasons of stability and squad freshening, with it also improving in quality, I could see that as a great foundation for a word class coach with Ole handling other football business.
He’s not the best thing for immediate results. But he’s absolutely good for the future of the club.
I agree with the OP's assessment. I think you need to clean house before you decorate it. We have made it a priority to move on some of the bigger wage players who do not fit what Ole's style of play which requires a lot of pressing and quickness. I mean ok we still have Rojo and Darmien but compared with the wages of Lukaku and Sanchez, they're small fish. Also, players like Rojo and Darmien are hardly attracting attention, so not easy to move them on. Then on the signing's side we are prioritizing youth and that is also a good sign. If we continue i think we will have a very strong side in the next couple of years. Will we be amazing overnight? No. But I think this is a good way to build a lasting foundation.
It wasn't 200m+ net though was it?
I recall him spending 110-120m pounds per season net, which for our club and the crazy times we are in is probably about right...
Its not though. Its relevant data used to identify patterns. Right now, we're incapable of winning as shown by the end of last season and start to this one. That may well change.
No it's not, but the title suggests that Jose has had an agenda of making a mess on purpose
They're just very different managerial styles and tactical approaches. As to Pogba and Mkhi - On paper and based on stats before, those were cracking players to sign, so Jose should get some credit for pulling them in.
In theory those were good signings, and you can always review the signings in hindsight and call them bad, which is easy. Mourinho was toxic in the end, but I just don't think Pogba has performed that much better under Ole, and Mkhitaryan has not been much better at Arsenal neither, that being at a system where he should be thriving more. Fred is still missing compared to his potential, so I wonder if this is a Mou thing at all.
Well said, it's hard for any objective fan to disagree with that.
I think the biggest change, and the thing alot of fans are struggling to come to terms with, is the change from a short term view of signings and the make up of the squad, to a long term view. We obviously wanted Sancho in the last window but couldn't get him, Mourinho would've been moaning in every press conference about it and ruining the confidence of the players still here, whereas Ole sees it as an opportunity to play James, Greenwood, and hopefully Gomes and Chong, while we wait to get the right player for the long term.
Like I said, jury is still out and the results aren't there yet, but like others have stated if those penalties were buried, and DDG on form our situation would look and feel quite different.
I don't think this squad is capable of delivering top notch football with the obvious weaknesses in midfield and RW. We're predictable and easy to defend against, but I think it looks much better than we did under LvG with the pointless passing , or Mourinho, who wanted the whole team defending without the ball.
It is obviously not the managers fault, I am not defending Mourinho, but I disagree with "we played like crap" he finished second with a not very good squad.
I am betting you even Klopp/Guardiola would need 2 full seasons to transform you, Guardiola needed a full season for City.
We've been hearing this rebuild crap from the club every year since SAF retired. It's all PR nonsense so the board and Ed can save face and lump our problems on the manager when things go south.
On the topic of Mourinho, I'm far from his biggest fan and I really hated the way we played under him, but he still was the manager who got the most of his squad. No matter how you'd like to spin it, an EL win and second place finish was the best season we've had since SAF retired. Unfortunately for us, he had his meltdown (which was largely fueled by our inept board) and was sacked eventually.
I'd like to be positive and believe that Ole can actually turn things around here, but I have absolutely zero faith in this board and its god awful CEO. I mean, just look at this crap:
Do you honestly think Ole's really happy with his squad? Woodward has somehow managed to absolutely skin us in the midfield and attacking department and is feeding our fans with his usual rebuild talk. Do you really think we're fine with Rashford and Martial, two woefully inconsistent players, as our main striking options? Let's say they somehow managed to finally kick their performances up a notch, what happens when they get injured? Who the feck is going to play there? Greenwood? Do people really not see how giving a 17 year old this responsibility at one of the biggest clubs in the world is just batshit insane? Our squad is an absolute joke this year and there's no way in hell that Ole doesn't see it.
On the topic of Mourinho, I'm far from his biggest fan and I really hated the way we played under him, but he still was the manager who got the most of his squad. No matter how you'd like to spin it, an EL win and second place finish was the best season we've had since SAF retired. Unfortunately for us, he had his meltdown (which was largely fueled by our inept board) and was sacked eventually.
I'd like to be positive and believe that Ole can actually turn things around here, but I have absolutely zero faith in this board and its god awful CEO. I mean, just look at this crap:
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Do you honestly think Ole's really happy with his squad? Woodward has somehow managed to absolutely skin us in the midfield and attacking department and is feeding our fans with his usual rebuild talk. Do you really think we're fine with Rashford and Martial, two woefully inconsistent players, as our main striking options? Let's say they somehow managed to finally kick their performances up a notch, what happens when they get injured? Who the feck is going to play there? Greenwood? Do people really not see how giving a 17 year old this responsibility at one of the biggest clubs in the world is just batshit insane? Our squad is an absolute joke this year and there's no way in hell that Ole doesn't see it.
Which one is retired and which did we make a profit on?
@Wumminator generally agree with the OP.
The last two results were disheartening, but I felt we could have won those games.
On the whole, there is some "dirty" work to be done, there is no bypassing it in that we need to create a functioning core to the team before talking about achieving anything; buying mercenaries to paper over the cracks will only prolong the rot.
Talking about the nature of the mess left behind, one that I feel is hardly mentioned is group morale and confidence. My opinion is that Moyes and Mourinho totally destroyed the players on those two aspects. I feel morale and confidence are hard to breath back into a group that has soured and can easily be the difference in such a competitive atmosphere.
I thought Ole would use the time he had last season to already take stock of what we can use internally before going to market, but he actually went and tried to get into the top 4 which I thought long gone. So it seems this season we will see what the players who are willing to fight for this club are really worth.
Cheers.
The last two results were disheartening, but I felt we could have won those games.
On the whole, there is some "dirty" work to be done, there is no bypassing it in that we need to create a functioning core to the team before talking about achieving anything; buying mercenaries to paper over the cracks will only prolong the rot.
Talking about the nature of the mess left behind, one that I feel is hardly mentioned is group morale and confidence. My opinion is that Moyes and Mourinho totally destroyed the players on those two aspects. I feel morale and confidence are hard to breath back into a group that has soured and can easily be the difference in such a competitive atmosphere.
I thought Ole would use the time he had last season to already take stock of what we can use internally before going to market, but he actually went and tried to get into the top 4 which I thought long gone. So it seems this season we will see what the players who are willing to fight for this club are really worth.
Cheers.
[QUOTE="Raven96__, post: 24628685, member: 118357"]It is obviously not the managers fault, I am not defending Mourinho, but I disagree with "we played like crap" he finished second with a not very good squad.
I am betting you even Klopp/Guardiola would need 2 full seasons to transform you, Guardiola needed a full season for City.[/QUOTE]
Whose fault is it then? The players that Mourinho himself bought?
Can't believe there are still people who will defend the specialist in failure.
What's a managers job then? It's the players fault when we're shit but not when we win huh
I am betting you even Klopp/Guardiola would need 2 full seasons to transform you, Guardiola needed a full season for City.[/QUOTE]
Whose fault is it then? The players that Mourinho himself bought?
Can't believe there are still people who will defend the specialist in failure. What's a managers job then? It's the players fault when we're shit but not when we win huh
There are results I can accept and say they're part of our transition, a loss to City or Liverpool, away games vs top 6 teams, maybe even close home losses vs top 6. Then there's losing at OT to Crystal Palace! Let's not make any excuses about previous managers or this and that, it's never acceptable. We all like Ole and because of it the blame seems to be pointed elsewhere, but let's call a spade a spade, United have been terrible since he took the job on a permanent basis. And the only thing that can make anyone believe it will get better is blind faith.
This misconception that we are now planning for the future, what exactly have we done that makes anyone believe United will be a title contender in 3 - 5 years? The players we've sold, did not want to be here. We have no leverage against top clubs in the transfer market. We are no longer an attractive club from a football stand point. Young players are not growing up idolizing United as was the case during the SAF era and it will only get worse. At this rate, we're more likely to end up like AC Milan than we are getting back to the top of the premier league.
This misconception that we are now planning for the future, what exactly have we done that makes anyone believe United will be a title contender in 3 - 5 years? The players we've sold, did not want to be here. We have no leverage against top clubs in the transfer market. We are no longer an attractive club from a football stand point. Young players are not growing up idolizing United as was the case during the SAF era and it will only get worse. At this rate, we're more likely to end up like AC Milan than we are getting back to the top of the premier league.
I'm not Mourinho's apologist but his first season signings were great:
Eric Bailly - The talent was there, got everyone excited. Turning into Ivory's Phil Jones
Pogba - Every top club wanted him
Mkhitaryan - Bundesliga's player of the season. Couldn't adapt to English football
Ibrahimovic - Everyone loved him.
We finished 6th but also had like worst conversation rate in the league, it was just unlucky. Back then everyone said we were one clinical striker away from being title challenger. Still won 3 trophy in the end.
I don't need to look back to know someone had posted "Mourinho is clearing up LvG's mess and has turned things around " something like that.
Post Fergie, every manager's first season was our honeymoon, everything looked bright and shine until Woodward decided he knew it better than anyone.
Eric Bailly - The talent was there, got everyone excited. Turning into Ivory's Phil Jones
Pogba - Every top club wanted him
Mkhitaryan - Bundesliga's player of the season. Couldn't adapt to English football
Ibrahimovic - Everyone loved him.
We finished 6th but also had like worst conversation rate in the league, it was just unlucky. Back then everyone said we were one clinical striker away from being title challenger. Still won 3 trophy in the end.
I don't need to look back to know someone had posted "Mourinho is clearing up LvG's mess and has turned things around " something like that.
Post Fergie, every manager's first season was our honeymoon, everything looked bright and shine until Woodward decided he knew it better than anyone.
Whose fault is it then? The players that Mourinho himself bought?
Can't believe there are still people who will defend the specialist in failure.What's a managers job then? It's the players fault when we're shit but not when we win huh[/QUOTE]
Whose fault is it? That is not my job to say, but I guess upstairs? Mourinho did not get every signing he asked for, he wanted a central defender and another midfielder I think.
I dont think he is a specialist in failure at all, hes a bit outdated, but hes a successful manager.
If Ole gets sacked, who will take over? The squad is just not good enough to win the league this year, sorry, top 4 seems very tough but possible.
So lets hire one of the top three managers in the world and spend a load of money on superstar signings- oh we tried that already! At least now we are buying sensibly so we have a good foundation. Yes we may need more players and some kind of catalyst to get there again just as SAF did with king eric. But we are starting the journey instead of throwing money away
It's baffling to see how many folks are so quick to forget Mou's miserable first season with us...6th!
Ole deserves a full season with two transfer windows, unless we are 8-12+ points short of the Top4 by Xmas.
Ole deserves a full season with two transfer windows, unless we are 8-12+ points short of the Top4 by Xmas.
This only matters if ole actually win something 3 years from now. Then you can say the rebuilding and patience bears fruit. As such nothing is guaranteed.
3 years from now he could be sacked. Or he could be our next ferguson. But to ditch everything in the hope that 3 years from now we'd dominate using a lineup of youth is like saying 3 years from now you'll win a lottery
Case in point Woodward has too much control over our transfer targets. Mourinho wanted a CB, in fact he wanted Maguire at one stage for £70m. He was told it was too much, by someone with absolutely no football experience.
The decision not to give Mourinho backing made him go awol, rightly or wrongly. I’m not condoning Jose’s behaviour because it was wrong but he knew he couldn’t compete and wanted to call it a day immediately.
Now 1 year later we end up targeting a CB as priority and pay more for Maguire than we could have last season. We also missed out on Alderweirald on the cheap. Woodward should not be able to say yes or no to targets.
What's your point? We've got no divine right to be back at the top of the Premier league and there's no sure thing of a manager that will get us there. It should be pretty obvious to everyone by now that there is more to it than one man in charge of picking the team.
So let's go with the alternative? Hire inexperienced manager and spend our money on squad players... I'm sure that's going to end well. We've taken a step forward with AWB & Maguire but at the same time have regressed in other areas.
No.
"We've taken a step forward with AWB & Maguire but we are as bad as 18-19 in other areas."
There. Fixed it for ya.
I'd love to hear your plan to make United a contender in 3-5 years as you seem to think we are not planning for the future while the evidence points to the contrary.
Feels like I read the exact same post but with Mourinho making up for LvG.
Mourinho doesn't decide transfer fees or contracts. The people that do are still in charge of that. They just paid another team to take one of our players leaving us skint up front. Also Harry Maguire cost 80 million. You think he's not on great wages as well?
Nothing miraculous has happened under Ole that suggests were starting to turn it around. We had a lot of big bids for players fail this summer, it was a complete mess and we're left with a squad that's worse than last season which we finished abysmally.
Mourinho doesn't decide transfer fees or contracts. The people that do are still in charge of that. They just paid another team to take one of our players leaving us skint up front. Also Harry Maguire cost 80 million. You think he's not on great wages as well?
Nothing miraculous has happened under Ole that suggests were starting to turn it around. We had a lot of big bids for players fail this summer, it was a complete mess and we're left with a squad that's worse than last season which we finished abysmally.
It's not a divine right, it's an expectation/standard of Manchester United, or at least it was. It seems like now mediocrity is accepted to the point that excuse after excuse is made in an effort to get other to accept it.
Whose fault is it? That is not my job to say, but I guess upstairs? Mourinho did not get every signing he asked for, he wanted a central defender and another midfielder I think.Whose fault is it then? The players that Mourinho himself bought?
What's a managers job then? It's the players fault when we're shit but not when we win huh
I dont think he is a specialist in failure at all, hes a bit outdated, but hes a successful manager.
If Ole gets sacked, who will take over? The squad is just not good enough to win the league this year, sorry, top 4 seems very tough but possible.[/QUOTE]
That's after he already got defenders and midfielders for millions. Mou would have bought SMS for 120 million once again stinking the place.
Yes the squad is not good enough because we trusted Mourinho with the money. Now we must trust Ole and so far so good as every signing has been contributing already.
What's the evidence? Hire the most qualified personal for key positions. Ruthlessness should be applied at all levels of the club. Stop this romanticizing with he understands United, or he loves the club. It's not done overnight but progress is evident and excuses don't have to be made when there is clear progress and improvement.
They've not tried very had to sell Darmian. He's been homesick for close to two years, isn't getting any minutes and yet bids are being declined. Jones, Smalling and Rojo all got new contracts and we now have 7 CBs. We simply could not let Mata go because we don't have attackers.
Evidence: not hiring a manager known to be short-term; you might say its romanticizing, but when you're building something from the ground up, its better to have someone who knows the ground; finally buying players who can develop at the club, and not going after so-called big name established players and mercenaries; getting rid of as many deadwood as possible for now; a definite way of playing which you can see implemented at least down a couple of age levels (U23, U18) but which the first team are still getting used to;
what you're saying is just some lines from "How to business for idiots". If you really think we don't seem to be planning for the future, give me what you think we're doing wrong and what we could do in specific terms. I seriously would like to hear that.
I don't accept any thread that seems to absolve Moyes from any long term damage.
Imagine if Mourinho had picked up that Fergie squad. Or pretty much any manager apart from Moyes, heck anyone on redcafe.
Would anyone else take that team to 7th or worse?!
Imagine if Mourinho had picked up that Fergie squad. Or pretty much any manager apart from Moyes, heck anyone on redcafe.
Would anyone else take that team to 7th or worse?!
Mourinho would never take a premier league winning team on a horrendous slide down the table.
I don't think he'd have taken that side very far down if at all. By the time we got him he'd totally changed unfortunately, but it had to be done for us all to move on.
The only manager we've hired known for being "short-term" was Jose. Moyes and LVG were not hired with that intention, so no change there. You say it's better to have someone who knows the ground, I want someone who knows how to build and is the best at it. Call it what you what you want, but I'll give you an example: It's 2012 City hire Txiki and United promote Ed - someone who "knows the ground" - how's that worked out? Lukaku (wanted out), Herrera (left on his own), Sanchez (Ole wanted him but he wanted out), Fellaini (sold by Ole) & Valenica (end of contract), what deadwood have we cleared out exactly?
Bringing United back is not about trying to recreate the SAF days, because we can't bring back the most important person - Sir Alex! You plan for the future by bringing in the best available, from board level to the pitch, no sentiment involved, results speak for themselves. Right now United have none of it. We have a clueless board, an inexperienced manager and squad with one World Class player who will more than likely leave next summer. So again, we will buy 2-3 players next summer but end up back where we started. You can't seriously tell me that you believe the way things are now, United will be contending for anything other than top 4 in the next 3-5 years.
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