Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Enigma_87]

On a much related note the mess was created by Woodward in the first place in terms of squad building. You can’t appoint two completely different in style and approach managers one after the other.

I’m struggling to come with another example of changing the philosophy in such timely manner.

It’s like Barca appointing Simeone right after Pep.

 

[Guapa]

Nothing will change under the current owners and Woodward.We are being rinsed.

 

[Amarsdd]

The only manager we've hired known for being "short-term" was Jose. Moyes and LVG were not hired with that intention, so no change there. You say it's better to have someone who knows the ground, I want someone who knows how to build and is the best at it. Call it what you what you want, but I'll give you an example: It's 2012 City hire Txiki and United promote Ed - someone who "knows the ground" - how's that worked out? Lukaku (wanted out), Herrera (left on his own), Sanchez (Ole wanted him but he wanted out), Fellaini (sold by Ole) & Valenica (end of contract), what deadwood have we cleared out exactly?

Bringing United back is not about trying to recreate the SAF days, because we can't bring back the most important person - Sir Alex! You plan for the future by bringing in the best available, from board level to the pitch, no sentiment involved, results speak for themselves. Right now United have none of it. We have a clueless board, an inexperienced manager and squad with one World Class player who will more than likely leave next summer. So again, we will buy 2-3 players next summer but end up back where we started. You can't seriously tell me that you believe the way things are now, United will be contending for anything other than top 4 in the next 3-5 years.

United promote Ed: obviously I meant Ole
Lukaku (wanted out), Herrera (left on his own), Sanchez (Ole wanted him but he wanted out), Fellaini (sold by Ole) & Valenica (end of contract), what deadwood have we cleared out exactly?: Lukaku was clearly not in the plans, Sanchez the same (You are saying Ole wanted him based on a press conference where he praised him (of course he'll praise a player who's still in the squad) ignoring the fact Ole never played him. Don't be so naive.), Fellaini not in the plans, Valencia again the same. Herrera is the only one Ole wanted to keep but by the time he was made permanent, Herrerra had already made his mind up given the contract he was offered by PSG. And clearing out doesn't always mean selling them as its very difficult to sell all those players in the same window. Ole is just not playing them (Jones, Smalling, Darmian haven't been in the squad. Rojo hasn't got a minute, and Young only after Shaw got injured)
You plan for the future by bringing in the best available, from board level to the pitch, no sentiment involved, results speak for themselves. Right now United have none of it. We have a clueless board, an inexperienced manager and squad with one World Class player who will more than likely leave next summer. : I agree with your point about the board, should have set up structure to deal with football as soon as Sir Alex retired. But what do you mean by buying the best available? Do you mean the big names, big money signings, the shiny toys? Most of that hasn't worked for the last six years. I would much prefer signings who have a step to grow and become the best playing for the club. Almost in the way what City have done. Players like Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Dan James fits that profile. Of course, I'd would have liked similar signings for the CM and RW but yeah it never materialized given situation in the transfer market.
You can't seriously tell me that you believe the way things are now, United will be contending for anything other than top 4 in the next 3-5 years. : Not only top 4, but I believe we will be contending for the title in the next 3-5 years if we make signings for CM and attack in the next couple of windows like we have for the defense this summer and don't sack Ole in a panic to start all over again.

But again, I still want to hear what you want United to do from this point on so that we are contenders in 3-5 year times? a little bit of specifics would be appreciated.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It’s a very rose tinted view this one Twiggs, stinks of confirmation bias.

I like Ole, and I really like the signings we made this Summer, but there’s a chance we’re even shitter now than we were last year and getting worse so I’ll wait with the plaudits.

For example getting rid of Sanchez and Lukaku to play Gomes or Greenwood sounds great, but there’s a big chance we’ve done it to play Lingard every week.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

So tell me why didn't we get rid of Alexis and Lukaku earlier so we have time to get at least one replacement?

Because they are under contract. You cannot sack them. In Lukaku's case we also wanted a transfer fee close to what we paid. With Alexis, no one could afford his wages. Only Inter really wanted them. Blame that on Mourinho again, or Woodward. Not Ole's fault.

 

[reddevil702]

United promote Ed: obviously I meant Ole
Lukaku (wanted out), Herrera (left on his own), Sanchez (Ole wanted him but he wanted out), Fellaini (sold by Ole) & Valenica (end of contract), what deadwood have we cleared out exactly?: Lukaku was clearly not in the plans, Sanchez the same (You are saying Ole wanted him based on a press conference where he praised him (of course he'll praise a player who's still in the squad) ignoring the fact Ole never played him. Don't be so naive.), Fellaini not in the plans, Valencia again the same. Herrera is the only one Ole wanted to keep but by the time he was made permanent, Herrerra had already made his mind up given the contract he was offered by PSG. And clearing out doesn't always mean selling them as its very difficult to sell all those players in the same window. Ole is just not playing them (Jones, Smalling, Darmian haven't been in the squad. Rojo hasn't got a minute, and Young only after Shaw got injured)
You plan for the future by bringing in the best available, from board level to the pitch, no sentiment involved, results speak for themselves. Right now United have none of it. We have a clueless board, an inexperienced manager and squad with one World Class player who will more than likely leave next summer. : I agree with your point about the board, should have set up structure to deal with football as soon as Sir Alex retired. But what do you mean by buying the best available? Do you mean the big names, big money signings, the shiny toys? Most of that hasn't worked for the last six years. I would much prefer signings who have a step to grow and become the best playing for the club. Almost in the way what City have done. Players like Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Dan James fits that profile. Of course, I'd would have liked similar signings for the CM and RW but yeah it never materialized given situation in the transfer market.
You can't seriously tell me that you believe the way things are now, United will be contending for anything other than top 4 in the next 3-5 years. : Not only top 4, but I believe we will be contending for the title in the next 3-5 years if we make signings for CM and attack in the next couple of windows like we have for the defense this summer and don't sack Ole in a panic to start all over again.

But again, I still want to hear what you want United to do from this point on so that we are contenders in 3-5 year times? a little bit of specifics would be appreciated.

It's pointless going into specifics for dream scenarios. The only way I see Ole being sacked is if he was to fall below 6-7 in standings so I don't see a panic move by the club. He's a fan favorite and even fans like myself who don't think he's the right man for the job are rooting for him. That's very different than Jose who turned most of the club and fan base against himself. Let's hope he stays true to what he says and doesn't change due to pressure.

 

[Ban]

Because they are under contract. You cannot sack them. In Lukaku's case we also wanted a transfer fee close to what we paid. With Alexis, no one could afford his wages. Only Inter really wanted them. Blame that on Mourinho again, or Woodward. Not Ole's fault.

I didn't say it's Oles fault and didn't mean we should have sacked them.

 

[Zlaatan]

No he didn't . We played like crap. A second place finish just masked that and it was all exposed in the third season. Things don't just "go downhill". Mourinho was a failure.

Which season post SAF was better than the one where we finished 2nd in your opinion?
I think Jose was a disaster overall but not agreeing that he gave us our best season by a country mile post SAF is strange to say the least considering what we have to compare it to.

 

[Foxbatt]

Ole is not turning it around. Anyone can sell players and bring in youth and it does not change anything is we are not winning games. Everyone knew that our midfield was declining even when SAF was here. No one improved on it. Well a few players came but all failed. I think one of the biggest mistakes was not to buy a world class holding midfield player when all saw how poor Matic was. Even now if we get two world class midfield players this team will change instantly.
But if we do not do anything then Pogba would leave and we would be worse off than we are now and Gary Neville will say we have started our transition once again. We have been in this position since SAF left. How may years of transition do we need? Every year is a transition year now.

 

[SAFMUTD]

We have a worst squad today than when Ole took over, what is Ole exactly doing? people only remember the last part of Mourinho's reign here but won't remember the last 15 games under Ole where we've had relegation form. We are not progressing under Ole, what system is he exactly implementing other than running a lot? we still can't break the opposition when they stay deep.

It's not like Ole's been here for 1 month, he has been here for 8 months, we should be showing progress already.

That combined with the fact that we had a disastrous transfer window where we practically dismantled our midfield and attack without replacements, just not the right combination to get anybodys hopes up.

 

[Kush]

It's baffling to see how many folks are so quick to forget Mou's miserable first season with us...6th!

Ole deserves a full season with two transfer windows, unless we are 8-12+ points short of the Top4 by Xmas.

Conformation bias if I ever saw one. Mourinhos' 'miserable' first season ended up with United securing CL football with 2 trophies to boot. If Ole were to repeat the same 'miserable' first season of Mourinho, fans would be asking him to be knighted.

I am critical of Mourinho with how he ended his reign here but I don't get the revisionism about his previous 2 seasons. ~He spent £150m on signings in 1st season and successfully delivered CL football - Fans says disaster. He spent ~£150m in his 2nd season and delivered us our best placed finish since SAF retired in the PL and reached yet another cup final - Fans say disaster. Ole spends £150m on new signings - OMG, 4th would be a miracle, he needs at least 2 years! It's just ridiculous. There's no need to get rid of existing players and leave yourself short if money is not there to be spent on new arrivals, or new arrivals are not interested in joining you. This is just basic squad management.

 

[momo83]

United promote Ed: obviously I meant Ole
Lukaku (wanted out), Herrera (left on his own), Sanchez (Ole wanted him but he wanted out), Fellaini (sold by Ole) & Valenica (end of contract), what deadwood have we cleared out exactly?: Lukaku was clearly not in the plans, Sanchez the same (You are saying Ole wanted him based on a press conference where he praised him (of course he'll praise a player who's still in the squad) ignoring the fact Ole never played him. Don't be so naive.), Fellaini not in the plans, Valencia again the same. Herrera is the only one Ole wanted to keep but by the time he was made permanent, Herrerra had already made his mind up given the contract he was offered by PSG. And clearing out doesn't always mean selling them as its very difficult to sell all those players in the same window. Ole is just not playing them (Jones, Smalling, Darmian haven't been in the squad. Rojo hasn't got a minute, and Young only after Shaw got injured)
You plan for the future by bringing in the best available, from board level to the pitch, no sentiment involved, results speak for themselves. Right now United have none of it. We have a clueless board, an inexperienced manager and squad with one World Class player who will more than likely leave next summer. : I agree with your point about the board, should have set up structure to deal with football as soon as Sir Alex retired. But what do you mean by buying the best available? Do you mean the big names, big money signings, the shiny toys? Most of that hasn't worked for the last six years. I would much prefer signings who have a step to grow and become the best playing for the club. Almost in the way what City have done. Players like Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Dan James fits that profile. Of course, I'd would have liked similar signings for the CM and RW but yeah it never materialized given situation in the transfer market.
You can't seriously tell me that you believe the way things are now, United will be contending for anything other than top 4 in the next 3-5 years. : Not only top 4, but I believe we will be contending for the title in the next 3-5 years if we make signings for CM and attack in the next couple of windows like we have for the defense this summer and don't sack Ole in a panic to start all over again.

But again, I still want to hear what you want United to do from this point on so that we are contenders in 3-5 year times? a little bit of specifics would be appreciated.

Ole wanted Lukaku out, that was clear from the moment Ole arrived. Lukaku even said as much in a recent interview.

Now. I also thought Lukaku as main number 9 was not way forward for club wanting to be challenging for EPL and CL. But selling him without replacement is going backwards.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Conformation bias if I ever saw one. Mourinhos' 'miserable' first season ended up with United securing CL football with 2 trophies to boot. If Ole were to repeat the same 'miserable' first season of Mourinho, fans would be asking him to be knighted.

I am critical of Mourinho with how he ended his reign here but I don't get the revisionism about his previous 2 seasons. ~He spent £150m on signings in 1st season and successfully delivered CL football - Fans says disaster. He spent ~£150m in his 2nd season and delivered us our best placed finish since SAF retired in the PL and reached yet another cup final - Fans say disaster. Ole spends £150m on new signings - OMG, 4th would be a miracle, he needs at least 2 years! It's just ridiculous. There's no need to get rid of existing players and leave yourself short if money is not there to be spent on new arrivals, or new arrivals are not interested in joining you. This is just basic squad management.

Sums up my opinion.

 

[Mr PG]

The rot started under sir Alex imo. Kagawa, Obertan, Bebe, Hargreaves, did not work out and we had no midfield. Rio and Vidic were over the top and their replacements were never going to be good enough... if we had done something then like spending the Ronaldo money wisely, our squad would be sorted today as prices were still reasonable then.

 

[momo83]

LVG qualified for the CL and won FA Cup.
Mourinho won league cup, Europa Cup, qualified for champions league.

Ole won’t win or qualify for anything. And it will be a reflection of his level as a manager, not what went on before him.

 

[dabeast]

This is absolutely true, SAF knew that it was going to be hard to compete against Abu Dhabi anymore so he brought in a striker on the decline like RVP just to give himself a last hurrah as he left. That he was able to win the league in 2013 goes to how good a manger he was but there were no players, including Rooney (Rio and Vidic were old), left who were top PL quality.

The rot started under sir Alex imo. Kagawa, Obertan, Bebe, Hargreaves, did not work out and we had no midfield. Rio and Vidic were over the top and their replacements were never going to be good enough... if we had done something then like spending the Ronaldo money wisely, our squad would be sorted today as prices were still reasonable then.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Very well written post, and I agree.

Unfortunately, fans are not patient enough and want to see instant results, but as you said, it will take a while.

You can already see the change in energy from the players. Our work off the ball (and long may it continue) has been fantastic.

We could do with better players in certain areas, but again, as you mentioned, it's part of the rebuilding process, which i'm sure if Ole's backed long enough, he will hopefully be able to bring in players who will be successful.

Ralf Rangnick, former director of RB Leipzig said "At any club, if you cannot get the right players, then you should at least not sign the wrong ones. You are in trouble if you do that in one or two or three consecutive transfer windows.

Unfortunately, not only did we do that with Mourinho, but Moyes and Van Gaal, too. This is why we've fell so far behind.

However, all it takes is one or two good transfer windows to get back to the top again.

Liverpool had that with signings such as, Salah, Wijnaldum, Robertson, Mane and Van Dijk - their record signing, all of whom were signed within the space of two seasons, and have been key to Liverpool being a force again.

I guess this is the reason Gary Neville said he's not too worried about United saying, "Liverpool, City, Tottenham, all these clubs have had poor recruitment policies over the last 25 or 30 years at times. So United are going through one at the moment.

“Eventually they will stumble upon the right recruitment system, the right recruitment people, they’ll get a great manager – hopefully that’s Ole – and they’ll start to win again. That’s going to happen"

Now don't get me wrong, its not just about buying good players. Klopp has bought good players, but more importantly, he's improved each and every one of them. He's one hell of a manager!

Jury's still out with Ole, but in regards to signings so far, James, Wan-Bissaka and Maguire already look like signings that will be successful, both short and long term.

 

[DSG]

@Wumminator Mostly agree with your original post.

The age old debate of whether Ole is at fault or previous managers or Ed Woodward/Glazers. Nice to see you can go on vacation for two weeks, come back, and see that there is a brand new thread with close to 400 posts arguing the same things we've been discussing for at least 6 months now. When you tally up all the posts in all the threads about this topic, do you think we are at 50,000+ posts yet?

Sigh.

 

[momo83]

Very well written post, and I agree.

Unfortunately, fans are not patient enough and want to see instant results, but as you said, it will take a while.

You can already see the change in energy from the players. Our work off the ball (and long may it continue) has been fantastic.

We could do with better players in certain areas, but again, as you mentioned, it's part of the rebuilding process, which i'm sure if Ole's backed long enough, he will hopefully be able to bring in players who will be successful.

Ralf Rangnick, former director of RB Leipzig said "At any club, if you cannot get the right players, then you should at least not sign the wrong ones. You are in trouble if you do that in one or two or three consecutive transfer windows.

Unfortunately, not only did we do that with Mourinho, but Moyes and Van Gaal, too. This is why we've fell so far behind.

However, all it takes is one or two good transfer windows to get back to the top again.

Liverpool had that with signings such as, Salah, Wijnaldum, Robertson, Mane and Van Dijk - their record signing, all of whom were signed within the space of two seasons, and have been key to Liverpool being a force again.

I guess this is the reason Gary Neville said he's not too worried about United saying, "Liverpool, City, Tottenham, all these clubs have had poor recruitment policies over the last 25 or 30 years at times. So United are going through one at the moment.

“Eventually they will stumble upon the right recruitment system, the right recruitment people, they’ll get a great manager – hopefully that’s Ole – and they’ll start to win again. That’s going to happen"

Now don't get me wrong, its not just about buying good players. Klopp has bought good players, but more importantly, he's improved each and every one of them. He's one hell of a manager!

Jury's still out with Ole, but in regards to signings so far, James, Wan-Bissaka and Maguire already look like signings that will be successful, both short and long term.

So you think if Liverpool had signed all the players that they signed over the past 3 years but had Mark Hughes as manager they’d still be as successful as they are now? No. Signings are part of it but not all of it. Let’s remember only Alison and VVD we’re established players, the rest of Liverpool’s signings have far exceeded expectations and that’s down to manager, coaching and tactics.

Which leads me on to the next part. Football isn’t fifa 19 where you put the best 11 together and you win. A manager needs to coach, manage, motivate, develop tactics and strategy blah blah.

Perfect example is City. Since 2011 they have had a great recruitment policy. They have had good managers in Mancini and Pellegrini and had success with both. If signings were the recipe to success there’d be no need for Pep or he’d make no noticeable difference

 

[haram]

 

[roonster09]

Conformation bias if I ever saw one. Mourinhos' 'miserable' first season ended up with United securing CL football with 2 trophies to boot. If Ole were to repeat the same 'miserable' first season of Mourinho, fans would be asking him to be knighted.

I am critical of Mourinho with how he ended his reign here but I don't get the revisionism about his previous 2 seasons. ~He spent £150m on signings in 1st season and successfully delivered CL football - Fans says disaster. He spent ~£150m in his 2nd season and delivered us our best placed finish since SAF retired in the PL and reached yet another cup final - Fans say disaster. Ole spends £150m on new signings - OMG, 4th would be a miracle, he needs at least 2 years! It's just ridiculous. There's no need to get rid of existing players and leave yourself short if money is not there to be spent on new arrivals, or new arrivals are not interested in joining you. This is just basic squad management.

All good when you miss the simplest of logic. When Jose took over we were close to other teams, when he was sacked we were miles behind other top teams. Other clubs improved while we had short term results and ended up going backwards.

When Jose took over we finished level on points with City, 4 and 5 points behind Spurs and Arsenal, few points ahead of Liverpool and Chelsea.

Now City, Liverpool looks miles better than us, Spurs played in CL finals. On the other hand we spent shit loads of money, as a club didn't improve, just kept on looking for short term solutions. In the summer everyone kept saying we needed 5-6 first team players. That's how far we have fallen. Starting points are not same for both managers.

 

[Isotope]

Well this is certainly a take.

It’s a poor run of form, I don’t think this is a permanent Joe Hart-esque fall to oblivion.

Schmeichel also experienced it. Once it happens, it just happens. Just like Sanchez, Ozil, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Torres, Mandieta, Vidic, Rio, etc. He might coming good again, but that's a 350k/wk for the next 5 years question.

 

[mariachi-19]

God there is some bullshit getting thrown about in this thread.

 

[Son]

Conformation bias if I ever saw one. Mourinhos' 'miserable' first season ended up with United securing CL football with 2 trophies to boot. If Ole were to repeat the same 'miserable' first season of Mourinho, fans would be asking him to be knighted.

I am critical of Mourinho with how he ended his reign here but I don't get the revisionism about his previous 2 seasons. ~He spent £150m on signings in 1st season and successfully delivered CL football - Fans says disaster. He spent ~£150m in his 2nd season and delivered us our best placed finish since SAF retired in the PL and reached yet another cup final - Fans say disaster. Ole spends £150m on new signings - OMG, 4th would be a miracle, he needs at least 2 years! It's just ridiculous. There's no need to get rid of existing players and leave yourself short if money is not there to be spent on new arrivals, or new arrivals are not interested in joining you. This is just basic squad management.

So true. The first Mourinho season was pretty good actually! Zlatan leading the line too was brill to watch & his performance against Saints in the Cup final was super. The Europa League win was a feel good moment too much like when we lifted the FA Cup with Van Gaal.

Ole has done very little for us as manager yet before we can start comparing him to Mourinho. Although PSG was hilarious. That was a classic. I fear that is gonna end up being his highlight as manager but I hope I’m wrong.

He seems tactically inept & the standard of our coaching isn’t as high as when Mourinho was here that’s for sure.

Take out the experience of Herrera and goals of Lukaku we’re suddenly very light. Only hope we have is the kids step up which I believe they can do in time. Not this year though.

 

[Kush]

All good when you miss the simplest of logic. When Jose took over we were close to other teams, when he was sacked we were miles behind other top teams. Other clubs improved while we had short term results and ended up going backwards.

When Jose took over we finished level on points with City, 4 and 5 points behind Spurs and Arsenal, few points ahead of Liverpool and Chelsea.

Now City, Liverpool looks miles better than us, Spurs played in CL finals. On the other hand we spent shit loads of money, as a club didn't improve, just kept on looking for short term solutions. In the summer everyone kept saying we needed 5-6 first team players. That's how far we have fallen. Starting points are not same for both managers.

This is some next level logic you're using by cherry picking the timing at which manager is sacked as sort of proof how far the club has fallen. Generally, a manager is sacked after months of poor results because they are unable to get maximum out of the squad i.e. squad is better than their current position suggests. Unless you genuinely believe that Chelsea were closer to Sunderland, Norwich and Aston Villa than top 4 in December of 2015 when Jose was sacked even though they were reigning Champions at the time? Or that Liverpool were genuinely 8th worst side in the league? That season was an anomaly, stop using that as a base to somehow justify your agenda.

More appropriate would be to look at how the following seasons went by. At the end of day, Jose can only be held accountable for what he did at Man Utd. What others were doing is not something which was within his control i.e hardly having any dud buys. When Jose finished his last full season at United, we were 2nd albeit massively behind Man City. Even though Liverpool finished 4th that year they were a better side than us. So, we were the 3rd best side in the country.

There were multiple problems which led to his departure. Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal didn't suddenly magically improve that much in space of 5 months from August to December. We under-performed massively.

The common notion around at the time on here was Jose was holding the team back and isn't allowing the players in the existing squad to express themselves, and that's the reason we were so further behind City. A more progressive manager would help us cover that gap. This is all we heard since Sevilla debacle right up until his departure. Funny how few months under a fan favorite appointment Ole has suddenly changed the opinion of so many who genuinely believe we're closer to likes of Leicester, Wolves and Everton than the rest of the Top 6.

It is not my problem that fans like you are lapping that up, the squad which Jose left behind was behind Liverpool and Man City but still good enough to contend with likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs. And 'miles' better than that of Leicester, Wolves and Everton. The mis-management of squad since then is not within his control and cannot be adduced to him because Jose himself is a short-term manager and his buys were to gain short-term results, if the club had different ideas and wanted to build for the future then he was the wrong appointment all along.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Moyes was not here long enough to do lasting damage.

LVG took us forward as a club and won our first silverware post Ferguson.

In a time when money in football absolutely exploded, we trusted it to Mourinho who wasted more money than any other football manager. He has left us worse off.

If you include transfers and wage bill, we spent roughly 600 million for Mourinho’s tenure and ended up with Lindelof and Pogba as first team players. Lindelof was at fault for the goal this weekend so I’m not sure how long he will last.

Dude one mistake ffs! which centerback doesn't make mistakes?

 

[Wumminator]

Dude one mistake ffs! which centerback doesn't make mistakes?

Not many.

I’ve never really rated Lindelof though.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

So true. The first Mourinho season was pretty good actually! Zlatan leading the line too was brill to watch & his performance against Saints in the Cup final was super. The Europa League win was a feel good moment too much like when we lifted the FA Cup with Van Gaal.

Ole has done very little for us as manager yet before we can start comparing him to Mourinho. Although PSG was hilarious. That was a classic. I fear that is gonna end up being his highlight as manager but I hope I’m wrong.

He seems tactically inept & the standard of our coaching isn’t as high as when Mourinho was here that’s for sure.

Take out the experience of Herrera and goals of Lukaku we’re suddenly very light. Only hope we have is the kids step up which I believe they can do in time. Not this year though.

I think the tactical part is a little bit over exaggerated by the media. Football is a simple game, we never seem to play our strength. MC at CDM, strikers at the flanks.. Flankers at F9, its all jsut make shift of lack of suitable players. But we do seem to play with some intent now, we have a specific strategy and purpose. Thats good to watch, hope the penalty craps will come good. And corners, i can't even..

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Not many.

I’ve never really rated Lindelof though.

Just noticed your location? Did you rated obertan though? Dude! really?
you need to recalibrate your rate-o meter,

 

[Wolff]

Ole is not turning it around. Anyone can sell players and bring in youth and it does not change anything is we are not winning games. Everyone knew that our midfield was declining even when SAF was here. No one improved on it. Well a few players came but all failed. I think one of the biggest mistakes was not to buy a world class holding midfield player when all saw how poor Matic was. Even now if we get two world class midfield players this team will change instantly.
But if we do not do anything then Pogba would leave and we would be worse off than we are now and Gary Neville will say we have started our transition once again. We have been in this position since SAF left. How may years of transition do we need? Every year is a transition year now.

In game statistics say you are wrong. You don’t think the squad needed overhaul? hence “transition”. You can’t go around doing that in one or two windows. Have you seen the price on players? 50mill on Longstaff for Christ sake.

 

[Wolff]

Dude one mistake ffs! which centerback doesn't make mistakes?

Actually the mistake was from Maguire. Lindelof just lost a duel..

 

[haram]

Utter delusion.

We finished 2nd and they stopped backing Jose. That’s the boards fault. The recruitment before Jose was worse. The wage bill is the boards fault.

The board created the mess and it looks like they are on their way to creating another mess this season which will have repercussions next summer.

Jose did not create a mess. This club has been a mess for fecking years. How much bullshit do they need to churn out for people to realise that.

 

[#00F]

When Alexis was signed, every United supporter was happy. A huge majority in this forum thought he was a great signing. Nobody thought he would flop the same way like he did. Why is Jose getting the blame for Alexis' failure? It was almost impossible to predict how shit he became. Not a fan of Jose, but apart from that lucky night in Paris, Ole hasn't done anything to prove he is better than Jose.

 

[Wumminator]

Just noticed your location? Did you rated obertan though? Dude! really?
you need to recalibrate your rate-o meter,

My Obertan thing was a joke from years ago, when everyone on the caf used to pretend to know every footballer despite them only playing about four games in their career.

 

[Siorac]

It is obviously not the managers fault, I am not defending Mourinho, but I disagree with "we played like crap" he finished second with a not very good squad.

I am betting you even Klopp/Guardiola would need 2 full seasons to transform you, Guardiola needed a full season for City.

We did play like crap for most of the season and then he targeted the likes of Willian in the summer. We were going nowhere fast with Mourinho, that fluke second place was obviously his peak at United.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

So you think if Liverpool had signed all the players that they signed over the past 3 years but had Mark Hughes as manager they’d still be as successful as they are now? No. Signings are part of it but not all of it. Let’s remember only Alison and VVD we’re established players, the rest of Liverpool’s signings have far exceeded expectations and that’s down to manager, coaching and tactics.

Which leads me on to the next part. Football isn’t fifa 19 where you put the best 11 together and you win. A manager needs to coach, manage, motivate, develop tactics and strategy blah blah.

Perfect example is City. Since 2011 they have had a great recruitment policy. They have had good managers in Mancini and Pellegrini and had success with both. If signings were the recipe to success there’d be no need for Pep or he’d make no noticeable difference

No they haven’t. They had a very good window in 10/11 but after that their recrutiment was generally awful, but for a few very good players like Aguero and Fernandinho it was mostly absolute dross. Especially after the arrival of Berigistain.

The 12/13 season for example they brought in Javi Garcia, Nastasic, Rodwell(!), Maicon(!) and Sinclair(!) for around 60 million€.

The season after that Demichelis, Navas, Negredo and Jovetic for ca 76 million euros(!!).

The season after that; Mangala, Bony, Caballero, Fernando- 100 million€ (!!!)

It’s really only since 15/16 and most importantly Pep arriving that their recruitment started to produce again. Pep clearly disagrees with you aswell as he felt the need to spend over 200 million euros in his first season and still only managed to stay 3 points off Arsenal who came in 5th. The year after that they brought in 6 players for over 300 million €. Over 200 million net spend once again and they ran away with it. It’s impossible to know how Guardiola had fared having only 70 million net to spend every year but also he needs some credit that he also managed to bring in alot of young, top quality players. A sensible transfer strategy shouldn’t be underestimated, and I’m happy with how Ole has approached things so far. Hopefully he’ll get a few more windows which would do us alot of good, wether we’re winning in the meantime or not.

 

[targetman]

• we probably have the most unbalanced squad in the Prem. Virtually no depth in midfield, which is incredible. It will take 2-3 transfer windows to sort this out, at minimum.
• we're building a high pressing style, which always takes time. You can't change tactical identity overnight. In some areas, I think we are progressing well. However, we are not good enough in our performances and seem to struggle to break down teams. I think this is what Ole will be measured on, how well he can improve that.

 

[roonster09]

This is some next level logic you're using by cherry picking the timing at which manager is sacked as sort of proof how far the club has fallen. Generally, a manager is sacked after months of poor results because they are unable to get maximum out of the squad i.e. squad is better than their current position suggests. Unless you genuinely believe that Chelsea were closer to Sunderland, Norwich and Aston Villa than top 4 in December of 2015 when Jose was sacked even though they were reigning Champions at the time? Or that Liverpool were genuinely 8th worst side in the league? That season was an anomaly, stop using that as a base to somehow justify your agenda.

It's not next level logic, it's having some context before judging anything.

2014-15: We were 5 points behind City and 8 points ahead of Liverpool, 6 points ahead of Spurs
2015-16: Level on points with City and 6 points ahead of Liverpool. 4 points behind Spurs

So we were at the same level as other teams when Jose took over.

Liverpool being 8th best team is not surprising either, except 2013-14 season they finished around 6-7th regularly before Klopp took over. League table shows how consistent teams were, it's not cup competition where you can say it was luck and all that.

Also it's not like I used only Chelsea as example, I used City, Liverpool and Spurs too. Somehow you talked only about Chelsea/liverpool and then accusing me of agenda.

More appropriate would be to look at how the following seasons went by. At the end of day, Jose can only be held accountable for what he did at Man Utd. What others were doing is not something which was within his control i.e hardly having any dud buys. When Jose finished his last full season at United, we were 2nd albeit massively behind Man City. Even though Liverpool finished 4th that year they were a better side than us. So, we were the 3rd best side in the country.

ManUtd don't exist in isolation. What Manutd manager does is compared with other teams. He took over the club which was close to City, Liverpool, Spurs. Spend shit loads of money and ended up with worse squad than others or left in terrible state compared to Liverpool/City.

There were multiple problems which led to his departure. Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal didn't suddenly magically improve that much in space of 5 months from August to December. We under-performed massively.

Spurs, Liverpool, City all didn't magically improve (I don't care about Chelsea and Arsenal as they are worse than us), they improved as they set the foundations right instead of shit football and lucking his way winning few games. They looked beyond results and now they are in great position for that. On the other hand, Jose who was short term expert didn't challenge for a league title in 2.5 years, looked worse version of the club from the time he took over.

Also so many stats models predicted that Manutd can't sustain the results as we created feck all, De Gea kept us in the games and they were spot on. On the other hand, same models predicted that City are much better than what they showed in 2016-17 and they were spot on again.

So in the end, Jose's hoof and hope football worked for sometime and then went downhill. In the end we did nothing in the league, signed shit players and wasted so much money.

The common notion around at the time on here was Jose was holding the team back and isn't allowing the players in the existing squad to express themselves, and that's the reason we were so further behind City. A more progressive manager would help us cover that gap. This is all we heard since Sevilla debacle right up until his departure. Funny how few months under a fan favorite appointment Ole has suddenly changed the opinion of so many who genuinely believe we're closer to likes of Leicester, Wolves and Everton than the rest of the Top 6.

Common notion was Jose after spending shit loads of money has not improved the club. He didn't improve the play style, there was no process behind anything. It was just hoof and hope football.

I don't know and care who and why they believe we are closer to Leicester, Wolves, Everton. I said they were wrong when Jose was manager, I said they are wrong when Ole is the manager. Even yesterday this was my post.

Of course, as much as we should be rebuilding, it shouldn't be by finishing so low in the table. We should improve on last season, that should be the expectations. Arsenal, Chelsea and even Spurs are not that great, we should be aiming for at least 4th.

It is not my problem that fans like you are lapping that up, the squad which Jose left behind was behind Liverpool and Man City but still good enough to contend with likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs. And 'miles' better than that of Leicester, Wolves and Everton. The mis-management of squad since then is not within his control and cannot be adduced to him because Jose himself is a short-term manager and his buys were to gain short-term results, if the club had different ideas and wanted to build for the future then he was the wrong appointment all along.

It's not my problem that fans like you can't take your head out of Jose's arse. I don't care who the manager is, the minimum expectation is to finish at least in top 4 and play good football.

What exactly did his short term buys achieved? Nothing, on the other hand signings done by Liverpool are doing something great. They didn't outspend us, they did as much as Jose and have better results to show.

Also squad is not mismanaged, Ole and others are cleaning up the shit accumulated by Jose (and others) and his pathetic short term strategy. We have sold Fellaini whose purpose was to be at the end of long balls, Lukaku who didn't suit the way Ole wanted to play, Sanchez who was just shit and paid more than any player in the league, Valencia who was done at top level. Only player we should have retained was Herrera. Bloated squad, wage bill and poor quality players.

When Liverpool and City have consistent plan, Jose just wanted signings who can do short term job and get done with that season.

Liverpool wanted VVD, couldn't sign him but then waited 6 months to sign him. Pep wanted Mahrez, Laporte couldn't sign them, waited few months and then signed them.

Jose wanted Toby, he couldn't sign. Wanted to sign Boateng, couldn't sign him. Then tried to sign Godin and failed. Maguire falls somewhere in the middle. That's the difference in approach. That's why he lefts us with shit players whereas Liverpool and City have good players as they are consistent in their targets. Like Ralf Rangnick said, if you can't sign the player you wanted then don't sign the wrong player. Jose did exactly opposite of that.

He wanted average players like Perisic, Willian and wanted to offload players like Martial. And now we wonder why we have such a poor squad compared to other top teams.

Funny a Jose fan accusing someone else of agenda, lapping up the shit when they lapped up all the bs he spouted and also his side kick Duncan Castles.

 

[TRUERED89]

And De Gea will continue to cost us points. After the end of last season and the start of this one, I'm confident he's done at the elite level. He's still a good goalkeeper but he's no where near as formidable as he used to be. Him signing a new contract would be Sanchez 2.0 for us.

Even Massimo Taibi wouldn’t be Sanchez 2.0 , chill out!

 

[roonster09]

We did play like crap for most of the season and then he targeted the likes of Willian in the summer. We were going nowhere fast with Mourinho, that fluke second place was obviously his peak at United.

Exactly. Amazing how his fans can't shut up about 2nd place and it's not as if we were close to 1st team.

Also funny how not signing 1 CB somehow destroyed the next season. Maybe it was closer to the truth than the 2017-18 season, that we were 6th best team in the league under Jose. Some statistical models predicted that we cant maintain the same results and they were spot on. We played shit football and somehow finished 2nd. Season before that and after that showed the true position in the league.