Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Mainoldo]

As aesthetic as Chelsea look under Lampard, their defence is an absolute joke. If this is the "style" you're eluding to I'm thoroughly pleased we have the current system.

Wasn’t that the argument of getting rid of Jose. We don’t like defensive football. Therefore how can you be shocked w United fan appreciates attacking football.

 

[Posh Red]

Wasn’t that the argument of getting rid of Jose. We don’t like defensive football. Therefore how can you be shocked w United fan appreciates attacking football.

I reckon any half decent manager could get Chelsea to play the way they have been, but most aren’t as naive as Lampard and would opt for more balance. Attacking football is all well and good but it’s got to be within reason.

 

[Mainoldo]

I reckon any half decent manager could get Chelsea to play the way they have been, but most aren’t as naive as Lampard and would opt for more balance. Attacking football is all well and good but it’s got to be within reason.

Yet know one does. It’s not naive he’s just got a poor defence and this is what happens. Similar to when we leaked goals. Only difference was we was still playing defensive football.

 

[Random Task]

The same how you deliberately or not ignore the fact that nobody is talking about stats. Jose had 3 wins in 5 games last year so by that we can say that Ole is doing worse job than Jose?
This comparison of Lampard and Ole is based on game style, how Lampard implemented his ideas in two months and Ole still didn't in 9 months.

From what I've seen of Chelsea this season, Lampard's style of play is not too dissimilar to that of Conte from last season - except Chelsea now appear to put more emphasis on attack - making it a relatively seamless transition for the squad as they did not need to adapt to a brand new, unfamiliar system.

That was not the case for Ole and the United squad. After five years of LVG and Jose indoctrinating a defensive mindset into players, Ole comes along and attempts to implement a very different tactical approach, one they were not prepared or conditioned to perform at a sustainable level. We looked like a team world-beaters when Ole first took charge, beating all and sundry plus making progress up the table and in Europe, before it fell apart when the player's poor conditioning took over, resulting in an injury crisis and a severe drop in results.

Ole has done what he can to remedy the problem by clearing out the deadwood and bringing in players who know how to play his system. That the three players brought in over summer have arguably been our best three performers is no coincidence, Ole knew they would perform as required. For me, this is a sign that he has a long-term plan set in place, he needs time to continue his conditioning of the existing squad of players and the resources to make additions where necessary.

Ole needs time and money. The fans need patience, a lot of patience.

 

[VP89]

Wasn’t that the argument of getting rid of Jose. We don’t like defensive football. Therefore how can you be shocked w United fan appreciates attacking football.

The major problem was reportedly how Jose turned the squad against him and it got very toxic very quick.

 

[Tincanalley]

Ole ain’t at the races tactically. Would be an excellent lad on a night out. Optimism brought to dizzying levels.

 

[Wolff]

Ole ain’t at the races tactically. Would be an excellent lad on a night out. Optimism brought to dizzying levels.

Popular statement that. Was pretty good yesterday.

Ole ain’t at the races tactically. Would be an excellent lad on a night out. Optimism brought to dizzying levels.

Maybe you should gather all the tactical geniuses at Cafe and have a boys night out?

 

[Lee565]

From what I've seen of Chelsea this season, Lampard's style of play is not too dissimilar to that of Conte from last season - except Chelsea now appear to put more emphasis on attack - making it a relatively seamless transition for the squad as they did not need to adapt to a brand new, unfamiliar system.

That was not the case for Ole and the United squad. After five years of LVG and Jose indoctrinating a defensive mindset into players, Ole comes along and attempts to implement a very different tactical approach, one they were not prepared or conditioned to perform at a sustainable level. We looked like a team world-beaters when Ole first took charge, beating all and sundry plus making progress up the table and in Europe, before it fell apart when the player's poor conditioning took over, resulting in an injury crisis and a severe drop in results.

Ole has done what he can to remedy the problem by clearing out the deadwood and bringing in players who know how to play his system. That the three players brought in over summer have arguably been our best three performers is no coincidence, Ole knew they would perform as required. For me, this is a sign that he has a long-term plan set in place, he needs time to continue his conditioning of the existing squad of players and the resources to make additions where necessary.

Ole needs time and money. The fans need patience, a lot of patience.

But you can see what Lampard is trying to achieve with how he wants Chelsea to play without needing the time and money Ole supposedly needs, this continues to be an on-going trend of our uninspiring managers post fergie with none of them playing in a progressive way needing more and more time and more and more transfers to supposedly get it right but end up looking worse under them all as time goes on.

 

[Wolff]

Currently Man Utd is 4. On the table. Ahead of Emery, Lampard and even the God Poch.
Seeing all of them teams, Utd have by far the superior defense! A couple of signings in January it dosent look to bad, does it?

 

[Posh Red]

Yet know one does. It’s not naive he’s just got a poor defence and this is what happens. Similar to when we leaked goals. Only difference was we was still playing defensive football.

Where do you expect Chelsea to finish this season?

 

[Tincanalley]

Popular statement that. Was pretty good yesterday.

Maybe you should gather all the tactical geniuses at Cafe and have a boys night out?

Yea, well I’m not any kind of genius. But I don’t think even the man himself would claim to be that. He’s learning- big jump in class for him, to mix with a very rarefied set of people at the very top level of football coaching. Maybe he will become a legend of tactics, a Cruyff, a Guardiola. But right now he is raw as Feck. But clearly you disagree.

 

[Mainoldo]

Where do you expect Chelsea to finish this season?

Above us. But they shouldn't in all reality.

 

[Wolff]

Yea, well I’m not any kind of genius. But I don’t think even the man himself would claim to be that. He’s learning- big jump in class for him, to mix with a very rarefied set of people at the very top level of football coaching. Maybe he will become a legend of tactics, a Cruyff, a Guardiola. But right now he is raw as Feck. But clearly you disagree.

Yes I do. Like I posted earlier, who he studied with and what he wrote on his exams. He put one over Poch anyway, and that was pure tactical. And blaming anything on tactics this season, you’d have to be a blithering idiot.

 

[Enigma_87]

Haven't changed my stance, but credit where credit is due. Yesterday we looked organized at the back. Leicester are a good team and our options were limited up front.

I'd take that 1-0 regardless whether we create a lot of chances or not. You need to grind those results in a long campaign.

 

[Shiva87]

I'm agreeing with you. I cannot see the point of just throwing them into the league yet, unless our form picks up and he feels it is safe to do it. The team on Thursday will say a lot. If he still uses the same old faces then I will despair for them.

Given everything Ole has said so far, I'll be very surprised if each of them don't get at least 30 mins of football. We may not see all 3 at the same time though.

Says you, I’d take Ole over the last 3 clowns every day of the week. I’m finally enjoying watching united again after miserable football for the last five years you can keep your negativity to yourself pal.

I'm also enjoying the 'connection' with the team again. I felt it was gone last couple of seasons. Too many players I didn't want to invest it!

I'm wishing every game that James, Maguire, AWB, Rashord, Martial, Pogba, McTominnay do well.

In Ole's starting XI (everyone fit) - the only players I'm not invested in are Lingard and Andreas. Even those two are homegrown and I wish them well. I just don't think they are any better than squad players.

 

[Random Task]

But you can see what Lampard is trying to achieve with how he wants Chelsea to play without needing the time and money Ole supposedly needs, this continues to be an on-going trend of our uninspiring managers post fergie with none of them playing in a progressive way needing more and more time and more and more transfers to supposedly get it right but end up looking worse under them all as time goes on.

I get that, I'm just as frustrated as you and everyone else and I'm not overly confident in Ole's ability to lead a squad of players to a league title either, but I have a feeling he knows how to build one. Assuming that last statement is true, Worst case scenario Ole will lay the groundwork (I know you've heard this before when LVG was in charge) for a more tactically adept manager to step in and lead the team to the title.

I forget who it was now, but someone on here suggested Ole could be a potential candidate for the DoF role which makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[Leftback99]

So 4th after 5 games against superior managers. Could be worse.

 

[Mainoldo]

So 4th after 5 games against superior managers. Could be worse.

We’ve all got the same points.

 

[JustAGuest]

So 4th after 5 games against superior managers. Could be worse.

Despite being "outplayed" in all 5, that's impressive.

 

[Lee565]

I get that, I'm just as frustrated as you and everyone else and I'm not overly confident in Ole's ability to lead a squad of players to a league title either, but I have a feeling he knows how to build one. Assuming that last statement is true, Worst case scenario Ole will lay the groundwork (I know you've heard this before when LVG was in charge) for a more tactically adept manager to step in and lead the team to the title.

I forget who it was now, but someone on here suggested Ole could be a potential candidate for the DoF role which makes a lot of sense to me.

Problem there is the last time a manager tried laying down foundations in van Gaal, Woodward the moron went in a completely different direction and it ended all being a waste of signings, departures and time of watching such boring possession football with little end product, I dont trust Woodward to have learnt from that and get the feeling if we dont do a lot under Solskjear, what he was trying to build will be yet another waste as Woodward will probably go in reactive panic mode again if Solskjear doesnt deliver with the mentality that that method failed so we better go to the other extreme side of it with our next managerial appointment.

 

[Jim Beam]

I have my doubts, but he has done some good things and not just on the transfer side. There is a clear effort in that team and defensively we look pretty solid. Also, I don't think other teams really like playing against us. That fear factor is gone and everyone will try to get 3 points, but we look like we will put up a real fight for the whole 90 minutes. Now, in modern football you want that extra quality upfront and God knows it wouldn't hurt to see some flair in our game after this 6 years. Not sure he is the man who can bring that part in, but to say there aren't some positive signs to be seen would be just false. After all, we should have at least 2 points more on the table.

Still think we will hit a rough patch some time during the season as the team is too thin. And then it remains to see how he will handle it or will he be able to sustain this kind of effort and fight in the team throughout the whole season. Because the worrying part is what will happen with this team without it.

He definitely has best intentions when it comes to this club imo, let's see where will it take us.

 

[dev1l]

Problem there is the last time a manager tried laying down foundations in van Gaal, Woodward the moron went in a completely different direction and it ended all being a waste of signings, departures and time of watching such boring possession football with little end product, I dont trust Woodward to have learnt from that and get the feeling if we dont do a lot under Solskjear, what he was trying to build will be yet another waste as Woodward will probably go in reactive panic mode again if Solskjear doesnt deliver with the mentality that that method failed so we better go to the other extreme side of it with our next managerial appointment.

So true about Van Gaal. Woody should have gone for a similar style manager but in the end I think he went for a "brand name" manager, a popular choice with the fans.
Mourinho would have been good if he came after Moyes as they have roughly similar styles.
Van Gaal is totally different

 

[Random Task]

Problem there is the last time a manager tried laying down foundations in van Gaal, Woodward the moron went in a completely different direction and it ended all being a waste of signings, departures and time of watching such boring possession football with little end product, I dont trust Woodward to have learnt from that and get the feeling if we dont do a lot under Solskjear, what he was trying to build will be yet another waste as Woodward will probably go in reactive panic mode again if Solskjear doesnt deliver with the mentality that that method failed so we better go to the other extreme side of it with our next managerial appointment.

True.

That's Ed 'moron of epic proportions' Woodward for you though. That this cnut is still making critical decisions, that impact the club both on and off the field, infuriates me. He should have got the sack along with Jose but the Glazers were afraid that the commercial side of the 'business' would see a hit. At least we know where their priorities lie if nothing else.

 

[sugar_kane]

I have my doubts, but he has done some good things and not just on the transfer side. There is a clear effort in that team and defensively we look pretty solid. Also, I don't think other teams really like playing against us. That fear factor is gone and everyone will try to get 3 points, but we look like we will put up a real fight for the whole 90 minutes. Now, in modern football you want that extra quality upfront and God knows it wouldn't hurt to see some flair in our game after this 6 years. Not sure he is the man who can bring that part in, but to say there aren't some positive signs to be seen would be just false. After all, we should have at least 2 points more on the table.

Still think we will hit a rough patch some time during the season as the team is too thin. And then it remains to see how he will handle it or will he be able to sustain this kind of effort and fight in the team throughout the whole season. Because the worrying part is what will happen with this team without it.

He definitely has best intentions when it comes to this club imo, let's see where will it take us.

This is key, too often over the last few years I feel like I've seen teams good and bad enjoy taking the piss against us.

Now we're trying to press more you can see the opposition getting frustrated and finding us much harder to play, we just lack proper attacking threat.

 

[Jim Beam]

Now we're trying to press more you can see the opposition getting frustrated and finding us much harder to play, we just lack proper attacking threat.

Yeah, yesterday for example for all the talk about our attacking game Leicester couldn't grab the hold of the game and looked frustrated while you could justifiably claim their midfield looked better on paper with Pogba being injured. Tbh, didn't even notice Tielemens until that foul on the edge of the box in the 2nd half.

 

[Tincanalley]

Yes I do. Like I posted earlier, who he studied with and what he wrote on his exams. He put one over Poch anyway, and that was pure tactical. And blaming anything on tactics this season, you’d have to be a blithering idiot.

Oh I get it. Tactics don’t matter, and he is a genius at them, anyway.

 

[The United]

People need to understand that we are not gonna do pressing this season to a good level just yet. It is because we need to raise our fitness level and anyone who is into it knows that it takes time.

People who moaned about it just because we had 3 months preseason focusing on fitness need to think a bit more. We do have some players that are not suited to that style yet.

I am not saying Ole is going to be the man. He might be. But, endless moaning over anything is a bit ridiculous and it has only been 5 games.

 

[Dve]

Its still nowhere near good enough.

Yet, no team have conceded less goals than United this season. But ok, that counts for nothing. It should have been zero.

 

[wolvored]

I see no evidence to suggest this is obvious at all

Woody said Ole had been given a 3 year contract and will be given this time to build the squad. This is a completely different approach to bringing in Fergies choice and 2 distinguished managers who had won the big trophies. Why let a novice run the club, changing how its run staff wise as well as changing the players in a massive way outgoing as well as incoming unless you intend to see it through.

 

[Dve]

I don´t think Ole needs 3 years to build a decent squad. 4 new signings, that´s pretty much what you need. One in January (e.g Maddison), 3 next summer.

 

[mancave bear]

He hasn't even had a year here.

Whats wrong with "supporters" nowadays?

Most people arent supporters, they are fans. They fancy beeing part of a "number one" football club, feeling that this lifts their social status. They fancy our club because we used to win most games easily, and were winning the premier league more than the other teams. There are less real supporters, supporting the team of their harts, when the going gets tough.

 

[rotherham_red]

We’ve all got the same points.

How shit must those managers be to be level on points with the clown we have, even though they had a season's head start? Am I doing it right?

 

[passing-wind]

Everyone must anticipate that the club need a long term vision and to adopt a strategic approach to bring us back to the standard we have all witnessed in the not to recent times under Sir Alex. I will always advocate for the removal of the Glazers / Woodward before considering ANY managers future.

The only consistent thorn in our club prohibiting the propensity to effectively transition from a squad re-selection to a change of ambition is the glazers. This is the difference between Bayern, Barcelona and Madrid for example going through a transition vs us, their ambitions essentially stay the same, ours seemingly have shifted. Since it's clear the owners are not going to move, my argument and concensus is away from faith, blind hope and romanticism. When the owners are as useless as the glazers we need a innovative coach / manager to supercede the hierarchical regression and bypass the club's fate by achieving steady successes on the pitch.

Is Ole doing enough to show us fans that after 400+ million worth of investment he will have us any closer to leading a charge for the league and european titles in three or so seasons. Jose provided the club success but the personnel he advocated for were over the hill stars with nothing to give but experience as a benefactor to warrant their transfers. Solskjaer on the other hand has identified the correct personnel, but it's questionable if he has the tools to unhinge the entire capabilities of a team to perform at the highest level.

The problem for me is that Ole and Jose are in footballing terms two sides to a same coin. Under both managers our team is more dangerous without the ball, under both managers we look toothless in attack and under both managers less than 20% of players have improved under their stewardship. The most concerning aspect regarding Ole is that he seems to fall short when it comes to implementing a desired philosophy.

My gripes with Solskjaer have nothing to do with what he's achieved in his career or his CV it's what identity he's showing NOW that will be visible in 36 months or so time. We cannot pin our hopes on a high press and counter attacking football as to the reason we will dethrone the likes of City / Liverpool from their current high statuses. We need more as a team and more from the manager.

 

[noodlehair]

We’re not even playing well so i don’t understand that but good luck to you- hope you enjoy us finishing about 7-10th .

We’ve not played well & had teams like wolves outplay us 3 times since he took over.

Ps if it’s negative to want the best for our club than so be it- you’re just a sheep happy with whatever happens just because we have an ex player in charge.

Wolves did not outplay us the last time we played them. They managed a 1-1 draw on their own ground which involved United missing a penalty and several other good chances, while Wolves barely managed a meaningful attack.

It has nothing to do with anything, but you are deliberately making up complete and utter lies in order to slag your own manager off. You're either a wind up or a complete idiot.

If you want to be critical try sticking to either facts or opinion, rather than pure inventionism. Otherwise you might as well just start pretending we don't win when we do

Your post highlights the significance of recent results which are short term. I'm not talking about results they have achieved, I'm talking about how both managers have imposed their will on their respective teams. How their will in essence provides the identity of the team, the philosophy which corresponds to a foundation to achieve success. Lampard has finished 6th with Derby and reached the play off final which would have given the club promotion in his first season as a manager. This eclipses anything Solskjaer has done from a competitive standpoint managerially. He's got Cardiff relegated and got the p45 the following season.

Solskjaer doesn't give this club enough of a directive both in coaching and from a managerial perspective. He doesn't offer anything by way of development for the team. The only element of success is strategically comprising a counter attacking system that relies on us not taking control of games and exposing opposition mistakes. Something Mourinho supported and got slaughtered by fans for.

Solskjaer has been in charge for almost 8 months now and where are we headed ? What is the long term aspirations, how do we define future success under Ole a top four finish or challenging for the league ? This club is an elite club, therefore we need success on the pitch to correspond with the standard. Can any fan in their right mind say to themselves that in three years Solskjaer will challenge for a league title ? To me this is something that will never happen, that is my biased opinion, if I wish Solskjaer could then that defines hope but Ole has given us fans nothing from a rational standpoint to back him without any consideration.

Not getting Derby promoted doesn't eclipse anyone else's achievement, because it isn't an achievement. Derby were perfectly capable of missing out on promotion before Lampard arrived. It's no more an achievement than Ole nearly managing to drag a dead in the water United team to 4th place, actually. If anything the later was more impressive. Derby were a consistent playoff contender before Lampard was manager. United were on course to finish about 9th when Ole took over.

Mourinho got slaughtered by people for not being entertaining enough, except this started out when we were winning 4-0 nearly every other week, so was another bizarre argument. He also abandoned counter attack tactics for bringing on tall players and sitting hopefully on narrow leads while punting the ball aimlessly up the pitch. Something I am yet to see under Ole, and also know that I wont see, because it is very easy to see what Ole's tactics and directives are if you aren't just pretending not to see them to support a stupid argument.

The last paragraph applies exactly the same to Lampard and could even apply to an actual proven manager like Pochettino, who will not mount a title challenge this year despite investing heavily in a squad he's shaped over 4 years now. If you want to hold Ole to the same standards as you would anyone else, that's fine, but it isn't what you are doing. You are holding him to a completely different standard to other managers and then using that as a stick to beat him with. You are not going to give him a chance, which is a strange position to take since he has already been appointed as manager.

Lampard's Chelsea play the exact same way as Derby barring he's got a more fluid set of players. He still has mount orchestrating the midfield and you can tell he's coached the players movement throughout the pre season and within training methodology. That is what's called a philosophy, he's got a cohesive idealistic view for his team and he brings into fruition. This is why Klopp was given time at Liverpool. Why Poch has been a success at Tottenham. Why Guardiola is known for his success and why a dinosaur like Mourinho is jobless.

You've missed a trajectory of my post to accommodate a smaller sub section to base an argument. This is not what merits a football discussion, I'm not here to call you names I'm here to expose that some of the support for Solskjaer long term is unwarranted.

Well actually this is quite funny because I watch and sometimes go to both Chelsea and Derby games due to my dad being a Chelsea fan, and most of my family living in Derby, and actually, they do not play the exact same way at all. Lampard's Chelsea tend to come flying out of the blocks and hope to give themselves enough of a lead to sit on before they run out of puff. Derby did not do this at all. Their passing style was very different. They were more progressive, and frankly a lot of the time, not actually very good and a bit clueless looking. The best I saw them play under Lampard was against United. Mount orchestrated the midfield for them. For Chelsea, Jorginho does this. From the differences in how each team plays my guess would be Lampard leaves the tactical side somewhat to his other coaches and the players he has at his disposal, and how they were coached by the previous manager, which I would argue isn't that stupid of him while he's finding his feet...but basically you're talking complete bollocks. You are just making stuff up.

Just to clarify, Ole took a more difficult job than Lampard last season in more difficult circumstances and, at worst, made a comparably impressive fist of it. This season Chelsea sit below United, having lost 4-0, to United. They failed to beat the worst team in the league in their last home game. They were played off the park by and failed to beat the same team United beat in a largely untroubled manner just yesterday. Some of their football is nice to watch, but they were coached last season by a manager who DOES know how to coach attacking movement. United were coached by Mourinho, who pretty much gave up on even attacking at all. I actually like Lampard, in the long term he might do well...but there is no grounds to claim you know he is a better coach than Solksjaer. It is like me telling you I know Greenwood will turn out to be a better player than Hudson-Odoi...there is nowhere near enough to go on to make any kiond of intelligent conclusion, and only way I can make an argument for it is by making up some complete bullshit and hoping it comes true.

I'm not sure what you're here for other than to make dishonest arguments and then accuse other people of doing the same thing. I mean there are perfectly understandable reasons to have reservations about whether Ole can be succesful at United...you've abandoned them in favour of aggressive line nonsense arguments.

 

[passing-wind]

I'm not sure what you're here for other than to make dishonest arguments and then accuse other people of doing the same thing.

I've acknowledged your post and see where you made points but largely it comes down to perspectives and how we all interpret what success is, success is mostly subjective in its own sense.

Many of those people which you quote came up with scintillating arguments to swear blind faith by Ole while dismissing the relevancy of Lampard. The main concern of my posts is the identity of Manchester United as a team. My post above specifically address this and I don't want to veer off topic into a d*** measuring contest between Ole and Lampard. I watched our game against Leister (first for me of our season) and was perplexed by what I was seeing. If you think it's bad on TV, it's magnified in reality and we were fortunate given the balance of play this team looks completely lost.

 

[Bobcat]

Your post highlights the significance of recent results which are short term. I'm not talking about results they have achieved, I'm talking about how both managers have imposed their will on their respective teams. How their will in essence provides the identity of the team, the philosophy which corresponds to a foundation to achieve success. Lampard has finished 6th with Derby and reached the play off final which would have given the club promotion in his first season as a manager. This eclipses anything Solskjaer has done from a competitive standpoint managerially. He's got Cardiff relegated and got the p45 the following season.

That bolded part is just pure nonsense. Lampard took Derby from 6th to 6th. Cardiff was Ole's very first job and a hopeless case with an insane owner. And if we are talking past achievements, Ole won Moldes first league title in a 100 years in Norway and back to back cup titles. A league which has been dominated by another team for about three decades now

Solskjaer doesn't give this club enough of a directive both in coaching and from a managerial perspective. He doesn't offer anything by way of development for the team. The only element of success is strategically comprising a counter attacking system that relies on us not taking control of games and exposing opposition mistakes. Something Mourinho supported and got slaughtered by fans for.

That's just plain wrong. He has already shipped off tonnes of deadwood, promoted youth and his three transfers in has been our best players this season. Cleaning up the mess caused by Woody and the former managers was never possible to do in one preseason and one transfer window. Klopp and Guardiola (maybe the best mangers around) needed two full seasons before they made their teams look great.

Solskjaer has been in charge for almost 8 months now and where are we headed ? What is the long term aspirations, how do we define future success under Ole a top four finish or challenging for the league ? This club is an elite club, therefore we need success on the pitch to correspond with the standard. Can any fan in their right mind say to themselves that in three years Solskjaer will challenge for a league title ? To me this is something that will never happen, that is my biased opinion, if I wish Solskjaer could then that defines hope but Ole has given us fans nothing from a rational standpoint to back him without any consideration.

Long term aspirations is of course challenging for major honors again, but did you seriously expect that to happen overnight? We already tried the instant success route with Jose, buying loads of "stars" at the end of their careers and it ultimately lead to the club and the team being in a worse state. Also, being a supporter means backing your team, your players and your manager in the bad times and not just the good ones. The Ferguson era was a complete anomaly and has completely spoiled us with how much we won.

Considering were we are, progress is a lot more than what is happening on the pitch. The fact that Ole has been so ruthless (which none of our previous managers were) with the deadwood is a big step forward. So is getting a competent RB and CB. A negative effect of this clearout is of course that our squad right now is paper thin, but if it means we can build the team back up again stone for stone with players with the right attitude and the right age, i would much prefer that over someone like Jose who fills his team with overpaid mercenaries, wins a cup or two and then fecks off when it all falls apart.

Ole is probably not the second coming of Christ, but there are some promising signs.

 

[lysglimt]

Your post highlights the significance of recent results which are short term. I'm not talking about results they have achieved, I'm talking about how both managers have imposed their will on their respective teams. How their will in essence provides the identity of the team, the philosophy which corresponds to a foundation to achieve success. Lampard has finished 6th with Derby and reached the play off final which would have given the club promotion in his first season as a manager. This eclipses anything Solskjaer has done from a competitive standpoint managerially. He's got Cardiff relegated and got the p45 the following season.
.

Derby before Lampard picked up 75 Points in 46 matches and +22 GD
Derby with Lampard picked up 74 Points in 46 matches and and +15 GD

So I dont understand why you would want to bring that up as a managerial achievment. He didn't improve Derby in any way. So when you compare Cardiff to Derby you should perhaps look at that as well ?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Derby before Lampard picked up 75 Points in 46 matches and +22 GD
Derby with Lampard picked up 74 Points in 46 matches and and +15 GD

So I dont understand why you would want to bring that up as a managerial achievment. He didn't improve Derby in any way. So when you compare Cardiff to Derby you should perhaps look at that as well ?

We are stuck in Lampard vs Ole i see. Look, nobody( at least not me) is talking how Lampard is the new star in managers world or something like that. Far from that. This is purely based on managers influence on squad. Tell me honestly; what team plays better, organised football? United or Chelsea? We are better in defence without any question but it is because we play defensive football. It is always easier to organise defend than attack. Lvg said( and Caf is ignoring that because it is from "bitter" LVG) that Ole is the same coach as Jose. Defensive coach. I am the first one who is not obsessed with attacking football and i don't mind watching defensive football from my team if that brings results but if general opinion here was that Man Utd manager must be attacking minded coach( and that is why people don't want Allegri) then why we have this much support to Ole? He is playing defensive football because he doesn't have all players that he wants? It is ridiculous excuse. By that 16-17 teams in PL should play defensive football

 

[Sky1981]

From what I've seen of Chelsea this season, Lampard's style of play is not too dissimilar to that of Conte from last season - except Chelsea now appear to put more emphasis on attack - making it a relatively seamless transition for the squad as they did not need to adapt to a brand new, unfamiliar system.

That was not the case for Ole and the United squad. After five years of LVG and Jose indoctrinating a defensive mindset into players, Ole comes along and attempts to implement a very different tactical approach, one they were not prepared or conditioned to perform at a sustainable level. We looked like a team world-beaters when Ole first took charge, beating all and sundry plus making progress up the table and in Europe, before it fell apart when the player's poor conditioning took over, resulting in an injury crisis and a severe drop in results.

Ole has done what he can to remedy the problem by clearing out the deadwood and bringing in players who know how to play his system. That the three players brought in over summer have arguably been our best three performers is no coincidence, Ole knew they would perform as required. For me, this is a sign that he has a long-term plan set in place, he needs time to continue his conditioning of the existing squad of players and the resources to make additions where necessary.

Ole needs time and money. The fans need patience, a lot of patience.

Where does this myth of you need 3 years just to reconditioning a player to play certain style.

Managers comes and go at any other football clubs, I don't see them grinding to a halt just because the "new manager" needs to recondition their team. Many managers has taken over from Moyes, LVG, Jose at their previous club, you don't see them crying about players not up to speed. Especially not 8 months after.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Where does this myth of you need 3 years just to reconditioning a player to play certain style.

Managers comes and go at any other football clubs, I don't see them grinding to a halt just because the "new manager" needs to recondition their team. Many managers has taken over from Moyes, LVG, Jose at their previous club, you don't see them crying about players not up to speed. Especially not 8 months after.

Exactly. I am confused also about that. Conte's Inter already playing like his team. And he even changed complete system( from 433 to 352) from how they played last year. Bloody hell, people react here like we have total dross of a team.