Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Volumiza]

Not really. You can meet the minimum /general objective one season and prove a failure eventually. See LVG.

That’s true. But it would be enough to give him another window and start next season.

 

[BusbyMalone]

It's insane how much time the cameras are focused on(pan to) him during the games. It's adding to the hysteria. Must have been almost a minute of zooms on his face during the West Ham game.

Comes with the territory

 

[GlastonSpur]

Watford reached the FA Cup final last season and are tipped for relegation this season.

A fortunate cup run doesn't tell the full story.

True, a cup run doesn't tell the full story, but then the FA Cup is not the Champion's League, group stages and all. Moreover, Spurs have qualified for the CL for the last 4 seasons running.

It's true our league performances have declined of late, but this follows a switch in focus to the CL and years of austerity due to new stadium costs. But now this austerity is drawing to a close as our income ramps up - so I wouldn't be too hasty in predicting decline if I were you.

 

[crossy1686]

Rate who? The manager? His 70% win percentage and clear style of play seems a good start for us.

Why?

They don't reckon he's that good, kind of a Jardim situation at Monaco. They seem to be under the impression that the way the club has been run behind the scenes has set them up with some amazing kids and good recruitment, which is why they find themselves in the position they're in currently.

Nothing to do with the manager who they're not that fussed about.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

True, a cup run doesn't tell the full story, but then the FA Cup is not the Champion's League, group stages and all. Moreover, Spurs have qualified for the CL for the last 4 seasons running.

It's true our league performances have declined of late, but this follows a switch in focus to the CL and years of austerity due to new stadium costs. But now this austerity is drawing to a close as our income ramps up - so I wouldn't be too hasty in predicting decline if I were you.

Judging from the last performance. I'm not sure Poch has any faith in your board

 

[Cassidy]

Really starting to think the Ajax manager would be our ideal replacement. I'd even consider moving Solkjaer to Director of football, if Edwin didn't want it.

Why?

 

[RooneyLegend]

People looking for a new manager need to realise the same crap players will still be here in January and next summer because half of them are on ridiculous wages/contracts that no other club will match. This isn't Ole's doing and its gonna take time to rectify. Ole's brought in Maguire, Wan-Bissaka and James who have all been an improvement on who was already there. The rest of the squad is from Fergie's, Moyes, LVG's and Mourinho's stints and are average or just plain rubbish. It'll take time and people need to be patient.

We need someone that understands that this lot isnt good enough, that man isnt Ole.

Nope. Even the Ajax fans don’t rate him.

They are a clueless bunch then.

 

[Random Task]

We have to begin judging OgS by his words though.

Multiple people on this forum called out this squad for being terribly assembled but OgS has claimed he was happy with it so he must be judged by it.

I like our youngsters & believe some could have careers here but to claim they are ready & not buy more ready players this season is something I’m going to judge OgS on.

We are at a point where Dan James, a left winger, is our first choice RW when everyone is fit [I rate Dan James btw] & his replacement is Andreas Pereira; I refuse to believe we couldn’t have bought a better RW than we currently have at the club & this is an issue in multiple positions.

We sold players, & those sold deserved to go but to not replace them is criminal & OgS should be held accountable for this.

You can’t change everything in one window, but we could have improve some attacking & midfield areas.

I agree with most of this, the club absolutely should have made additions to attack and midfield over the summer, but I don't think it's fair to hold Ole accountable when he isn't in charge of recruitment. This is my understanding of the clubs' recruitment process based on the information fed to us by the media: the manager (Ole in this case) hands a list of his preferred transfer targets to Woodward, who in turn sets about securing those targets.

There is no way of knowing exactly which players Ole had on his list, but it's a safe assumption that it contained a few established players given who United were linked with over the summer (Fernandes, Dybala, Eriksen to name a few) and failed to sign any of them. Woodward is to be held accountable for his failure to secure those targets, not Ole.

 

[Kamprad]

I'm not sure on what basis this should buy him time.

Who has he developed so far that has shown significant progress? He has absolutely no track record in developing young players to reach their maximum potential.

He’s giving them as much minutes as he thinks he can afford. In the long run thats probably a good thing. Maybe a step back in ambition but a step back is maybe what is needed for this club to find it’s identity again. Let’s not hire or fire anyone until the right option emerge. Easy to say now, maybe not as easy if the losing continues. But at the moment that’s my opinion.

 

[RooneyLegend]

They don't reckon he's that good, kind of a Jardim situation at Monaco. They seem to be under the impression that the way the club has been run behind the scenes has set them up with some amazing kids and good recruitment, which is why they find themselves in the position they're in currently.

Nothing to do with the manager who they're not that fussed about.

They are a clueless bunch then. He certainly modernized their coaching and got them into this decade. They hardly have stars all over the place either. This is a man that has Tadic playing as a CL level forward.

 

[romufc]

I agree with most of this, the club absolutely should have made additions to attack and midfield over the summer, but I don't think it's fair to hold Ole accountable when he isn't in charge of recruitment. This is my understanding of the clubs' recruitment process based on the information fed to us by the media: the manager (Ole in this case) hands a list of his preferred transfer targets to Woodward, who in turn sets about securing those targets.

There is no way of knowing exactly which players Ole had on his list, but it's a safe assumption that it contained a few established players given who United were linked with over the summer (Fernandes, Dybala, Eriksen to name a few) and failed to sign any of them. Woodward is to be held accountable for his failure to secure those targets, not Ole.

Ole has to hold some sort of responsibility. I have been backing him thus far however; the West Ham performance showed that there has been no improvement in our play. Ole might not be in charge of recruitment but he was happy to let Sanchez and Lukaku go knowing the window has closed.

It is clear Ole wants to buy proven PL players however; as we saw with AWB and Maguire it is not easy to buy from PL clubs and most times we would be going after their best player, never easy. That is not Woodward's fault, because if Ole said yes I will have Bruno, I am sure Ed could have secured that deal.

 

[tenpoless]

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I too draw big circles to get my point across.

 

[finneh]

True, a cup run doesn't tell the full story, but then the FA Cup is not the Champion's League, group stages and all. Moreover, Spurs have qualified for the CL for the last 4 seasons running.

It's true our league performances have declined of late, but this follows a switch in focus to the CL and years of austerity due to new stadium costs. But now this austerity is drawing to a close as our income ramps up - so I wouldn't be too hasty in predicting decline if I were you.

I haven't predicted decline... I've stated the obvious decline over the last 3 years due to austerity.

I also don't believe it's "over". You've spent £55m this summer on Ndombele and £25m on Sessegnon, whilst front loading next year's spend in the form of a loan for Lo Celso.

I imagine that £80m is the upper end of your annual spend, so whilst it's relaxing you aren't going to be competing with the City's, Liverpool's, Chelsea's and United's of this world.

It will take a lot of fortune for Ndombele to replace Dembele, Lo Celso to replace Eriksen, Sanchez to replace Alderweireld. That's before even thinking of replacing Wanyama, Verthongen, Walker and Rose.

 

[JustAGuest]

Really starting to think the Ajax manager would be our ideal replacement. I'd even consider moving Solkjaer to Director of football, if Edwin didn't want it.

He has the perfect structure in place at Ajax. I'm not sure he would be able to replicate it here, especially as the fans will be quick to call for his head if he doesn't get off to a good start.

 

[Enigma_87]

He’s giving them as much minutes as he thinks he can afford. In the long run thats probably a good thing. Maybe a step back in ambition but a step back is maybe what is needed for this club to find it’s identity again. Let’s not hire or fire anyone until the right option emerge. Easy to say now, maybe not as easy if the losing continues. But at the moment that’s my opinion.

He gives them minutes because we're barebones. You still see Young, Mata, etc start over younger alternatives so nothing has really changed. We just have a shorter squad.

Giving them minutes isn't really what is all about. Those young players need proper coaching and proper guidance to develop. He's giving them neither at the moment because he's poor coach and a manager. No attacking drills, no tactical game plan. They can get minutes at another PL side and as crazy it might sound they will develop better if they are managed by someone like Hasenhüttl.

 

[OrcaFat]

Making it in the 08 squad is irrelevant.

You will never get a whole squad of players you feel comfortable with without losing some or having underperforming ones.

It's the job of the manager to improve the players he's working with, get results and implement a tactical plan on the pitch. He isn't doing either of those things.

He spent 150m this Summer. How long until Maguire, James and AWB begin to stall in their development because he's a poor tactician, coach and generally manager?

I’m not worried about Ole making players worse but I have noticed some people think he will. ( I suppose he could have made Ronaldo worse if he tried hard enough? - a bizarre gift if so.)

The point is that the players and squad are many levels below what we had when we were being successful.

Most managers, even the successful ones, admit it is nearly all about the players.

When it comes to the length and depth of our poor run, Ole can’t avoid blame altogether. But it is an over-complication to argue that the players are crap because of some particular things that Ole is or isn’t doing. They are simply sub-standard compared to City, Liverpool and the 08 boys, etc. That seems pretty relevant to me.

 

[Enigma_87]

I’m not worried about Ole making players worse but I have noticed some people think he will. ( I suppose he could have made Ronaldo worse if he tried hard enough? - a bizarre gift if so.)

The point is that the players and squad are many levels below what we had when we were being successful.

Most managers, even the successful ones, admit it is nearly all about the players.

When it comes to the length and depth of our poor run, Ole can’t avoid blame altogether. But it is an over-complication to argue that the players are crap because of some particular things that Ole is or isn’t doing. They are simply sub-standard compared to City, Liverpool and the 08 boys, etc. That seems pretty relevant to me.

When Ole was on a winning run the boys were good enough, the minute he went on a wank one it's all about the players. When those set of players finished 2nd the season before you can argue they were good enough bar Liverpool and City. Last year you can argue they still would have been good enough for top 4.

No one is really comparing us to City and Pool - we're well behind, but when it comes to comparing us to the rest of the teams our lads aren't that bad some are making it up to be.

All players - good and bad ones need proper coaching. You raise their level through that. If you have great players of course it will be easy to get results, but this is not a luxury that we can afford at the moment.

Solskjaer hasn't really improved a single player to an extend you can say keeping him to promote youth will be beneficial in the long run. There's no track record for that.

 

[Kamprad]

He gives them minutes because we're barebones. You still see Young, Mata, etc start over younger alternatives so nothing has really changed. We just have a shorter squad.

Giving them minutes isn't really what is all about. Those young players need proper coaching and proper guidance to develop. He's giving them neither at the moment because he's poor coach and a manager. No attacking drills, no tactical game plan. They can get minutes at another PL side and as crazy it might sound they will develop better if they are managed by someone like Hasenhüttl.

He’s got proper coaches. They need someone who gives them confidence. And someone they have confidence in. Having minutes in this environment, a big club with the pressure that comes along, is as good as playing under Hazelnutl. Throw them in the fire and see who finds a way to survive.

 

[Enigma_87]

He’s got proper coaches. They need someone who gives them confidence. And someone they have confidence in. Having minutes in this environment, a big club with the pressure that comes along, is as good as playing under Hazelnutl. Throw them in the fire and see who finds a way to survive.

Disagree mate. Young players needs to be nurtured and shown patience. They need to be guided and they need to start in a good atmosphere and a working unit.

Throwing them in the fire is exactly the opposite of what I'd recommend so we have to disagree there.

 

[Kamprad]

Disagree mate. Young players needs to be nurtured and shown patience. They need to be guided and they need to start in a good atmosphere and a working unit.

Throwing them in the fire is exactly the opposite of what I'd recommend so we have to disagree there.

I know what you mean. Maybe a few of them would be better of under Hasshüttl in Southampton. But I think with Ole giving confidence and minutes to a player with the right mindset is still better.

 

[OrcaFat]

When Ole was on a winning run the boys were good enough, the minute he went on a wank one it's all about the players. When those set of players finished 2nd the season before you can argue they were good enough bar Liverpool and City. Last year you can argue they still would have been good enough for top 4.

No one is really comparing us to City and Pool - we're well behind, but when it comes to comparing us to the rest of the teams our lads aren't that bad some are making it up to be.

All players - good and bad ones need proper coaching. You raise their level through that. If you have great players of course it will be easy to get results, but this is not a luxury that we can afford at the moment.

Solskjaer hasn't really improved a single player to an extend you can say keeping him to promote youth will be beneficial in the long run. There's no track record for that.

You present the argument pretty well, I must say.
Sure, many of us will pick out bits of evidence to support our views and ignore the same when it undermines our argument.

So, yes, I was optimistic about the players when we had that good run (we scored some damn goals at least) but I credited Ole. Now we’re dreadful I’m blaming the players. Hey.

Still, the players aren’t really very good and even if they do improve, most of them wouldn’t have troubled the kit man pre 2012.

 

[GlastonSpur]

I haven't predicted decline... I've stated the obvious decline over the last 3 years due to austerity.

I also don't believe it's "over". You've spent £55m this summer on Ndombele and £25m on Sessegnon, whilst front loading next year's spend in the form of a loan for Lo Celso.

I imagine that £80m is the upper end of your annual spend, so whilst it's relaxing you aren't going to be competing with the City's, Liverpool's, Chelsea's and United's of this world.

It will take a lot of fortune for Ndombele to replace Dembele, Lo Celso to replace Eriksen, Sanchez to replace Alderweireld. That's before even thinking of replacing Wanyama, Verthongen, Walker and Rose.

Why do we need to replace Vertonghen? He's good a for a while yet. Ditto Rose - although we have signed Sessegnon for the left side and also have Davies. It's also premature to say that Ndombele won't replace Dembele, or Lo Celso replace Eriksen … even forgetting that we may well return for Dybala in January.

And Wanyama is not part of our forward plans anyway - which is why we tried to sell him this summer. Perhaps United would like him as an upgrade on Matic?

Anyhow, this is all going off-topic.

 

[Bilbo]

The fact is none of us are suitably qualified to judge the staff (not just Ole) in terms of coaching of the squad. If we are talking about results then only Klopp & Pep seem to have a clue what they are doing. Every other club in the division look capable of beating or getting beat by anyone else on a given day.

When this staff get no credit for turning over Chelsea, largely outplaying Wolves and keeping a good Leicester side very quiet, it seems reactive and agenda driven to then lay full blame for the bad ones solely at their feet.

Performances are where it counts though, and the last one was very, very bad. There are factors involved though. Our best player was out and so was our most clinical striker. The team are lacking confidence and unforgivably some heads seem to drop on Sunday after we went behind. Its worth noting our best spell of the match came straight after half time when the staff had spent some time picking the team back up. You only needed to look at the bench to understand the challenge we face right now.

Ultimately though the thing that makes me want to give this lot time is the simple fact that we need a squad rebuild, and the three players signed under Ole have been our three best players so far. The targets we looked at but didn't get also looked like the right kind of player. I trust these guys to spend our money in a considerably smarter fashion than it has been in recent years.

 

[Bilbo]

I know what you mean. Maybe a few of them would be better of under Hasshüttl in Southampton. But I think with Ole giving confidence and minutes to a player with the right mindset is still better.

Southampton get beat 3-0 at Burnley and lost to Bournemouth at the weekend. There is little to suggest that they are playing better than the sum of their parts. Its fancy foreign coach syndrome, which is why nobody ever says Sean Dyche.

 

[finneh]

Why do we need to replace Vertonghen? He's good a for a while yet. Ditto Rose - although we have signed Sessegnon for the left side and also have Davies. It's also premature to say that Ndombele won't replace Dembele, or Lo Celso replace Eriksen … even forgetting that we may well return for Dybala in January.

And Wanyama is not part of our forward plans anyway - which is why we tried to sell him this summer. Perhaps United would like him as an upgrade on Matic?

Anyhow, this is all going off-topic.

Agreed. My point was only that a) Spurs have been declining for 3 years as evidenced by their dwindling points tallies; and b) replacing great players like Eriksen, Alderweireld, Walker and Dembele isn't easy... Trust me as a United fan we've been trying to replace even one of our outfield 2009 team for a decade without success.

 

[momo83]

When Ole was on a winning run the boys were good enough, the minute he went on a wank one it's all about the players. When those set of players finished 2nd the season before you can argue they were good enough bar Liverpool and City. Last year you can argue they still would have been good enough for top 4.

No one is really comparing us to City and Pool - we're well behind, but when it comes to comparing us to the rest of the teams our lads aren't that bad some are making it up to be.

All players - good and bad ones need proper coaching. You raise their level through that. If you have great players of course it will be easy to get results, but this is not a luxury that we can afford at the moment.

Solskjaer hasn't really improved a single player to an extend you can say keeping him to promote youth will be beneficial in the long run. There's no track record for that.

Exactly. People forget Martial scored 18 goals in his first season.

Best example I can think of. People were calling Eriksen and the other players spurs bought with the Bale money crap after 1 season, but Poch came his management/coaching got the best out of them.

 

[dev1l]

Exactly. People forget Martial scored 18 goals in his first season.

Best example I can think of. People were calling Eriksen and the other players spurs bought with the Bale money crap after 1 season, but Poch came his management/coaching got the best out of them.

True Martial scored 18 goals but since then he never really impressed till Ole took over. He was so bad under Mourinho, he asked the club to get rid of

 

[Lee565]

We could allow Solskjear to keep going for a few seasons to follow through on his plan but we still have no evidence he is a good manager and what's the use of having a 3 or 4 year plan under him if we become a mid-table side under him for the next 3 or 4 seasons, do you think the players he had in mind to recruit as part of the 3-4 year plan will want to join us if we become a Europa league team? He's not bloody klopp so let's stop with the retarded comparisons just because of how he faired in his first season with liverpool, klopp did things in football that Solskjear will never achieve and do you honestly think Solskjear would have liverpool as good as they have been under klopp if he was their manager instead.

 

[::sonny::]

You can change the manager, the end result wouldbe always the same

6th/8th place

 

[M16Red]

You can change the manager, the end result wouldbe always the same

6th/8th place

Yep, we still have rotten apples in the squad. Look at Smalling he was told he might not get many games and he went on loan.. look at Jones... Still sat round looking like a Muppet. Young shouldn't be anywhere near the first team never mind captain. Mata Jesus and then you look at Rashford the definition of a headless chicken.

But again it looks like the pressure is building on Ole and when he goes the circle of devastation starts again. Hopefully he can get someone in January LB, MF, RW, ST

 

[Gopher Brown]

Then there'd no reason for a manager. Just let the players do what they want, good or bad and never have a coach in place to help them learn and improve.

I’m just aware we’ve had 3 vastly experienced coaches prior to Ole, and none of them could get a tune out of most of these players either. Yes, the squad has changed, but there’s something fundamentally flawed with how we do things which not even LVG or Mourinho could fix. I’m not seeing Ole as the biggest problem just yet.

 

[peridigm]

I’m just aware we’ve had 3 vastly experienced coaches prior to Ole, and none of them could get a tune out of most of these players either. Yes, the squad has changed, but there’s something fundamentally flawed with how we do things which not even LVG or Mourinho could fix. I’m not seeing Ole as the biggest problem just yet.

Which begs the question, what is it? If talking specifically about Ole, we know the majority of the squad we now have was there during that takeover run. We were playing fantastic football and winning. What happened? Did the players all of a sudden forget how to play or did Ole change how he wanted to do things? If the latter, why did he change things if it was working. It's not like we're a team where the owners dictate who plays and who doesn't. The manager runs the show on the pitch. I'm in the keep Ole camp because if he did get the sack, nothing has changed in the way the club will appoint a new manager and buy/sell players. We'll be right back to square one this time next year.

This leads to the question of how can you not blame LVG and Jose for the shortcomings when they all had their own players to bring in along with the existing squad. Two of the most egocentric managers in the last decade. I'm not going to include Moyes in this as he inherited a title winning team and tried to make it his own. If he's have come in and not turned everything upside down, who knows, he could have lasted another year.

 

[dove]

I’m just aware we’ve had 3 vastly experienced coaches prior to Ole, and none of them could get a tune out of most of these players either. Yes, the squad has changed, but there’s something fundamentally flawed with how we do things which not even LVG or Mourinho could fix. I’m not seeing Ole as the biggest problem just yet.

One of those experienced was average mid table manager and the other 2 were clearly past their best. All 3 were wrong choices by the board.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Which begs the question, what is it? If talking specifically about Ole, we know the majority of the squad we now have was there during that takeover run. We were playing fantastic football and winning. What happened? Did the players all of a sudden forget how to play or did Ole change how he wanted to do things? If the latter, why did he change things if it was working. It's not like we're a team where the owners dictate who plays and who doesn't. The manager runs the show on the pitch. I'm in the keep Ole camp because if he did get the sack, nothing has changed in the way the club will appoint a new manager and buy/sell players. We'll be right back to square one this time next year.

It seems to me that issue isn't tactics, but rather our players aren't able to handle the pressure that comes with playing for the club. The crazy fluctuation in form post-PSG suggests that they don't deal too well with set-backs, and the fact it's continued into this season only indicate it further. I think it's probably why we've been trying to get people like Evra involved as he himself is actually a stronger person to have around the dressing room.

Basically, I think this is something Ole needs to address, not necessarily tactics. I know phrases like 'winning mentality' are a bit of a cliche but we do seem to have a mentality problem, especially when we get into a poor run of form.

Also apologies if this is incoherent, I'm dog tired and the text is blurring into itself.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Yes let's believe what we think is right ahead of a clear piece of news from a relatable source. Why didn't these sources say last season that Mourinho was happy with the squad and didn't want new players as well?

Not such a reliable source. Have you seen Stones recent tweet about Woodward? He's obviously just Woodwards mouthpiece.

 

[el3mel]

Not such a reliable source. Have you seen Stones recent tweet about Woodward? He's obviously just Woodwards mouthpiece.

As I said it's not just quotes from Stones that I'm depending on but direct quotes from Ole as well.

 

[dev1l]

Not such a reliable source. Have you seen Stones recent tweet about Woodward? He's obviously just Woodwards mouthpiece.

Definitely. It seems he s trying to cover Ed s ass by shifting blame on Ole.
I frankly find it disgusting but that s how big corporates work.

 

[peridigm]

It seems to me that issue isn't tactics, but rather our players aren't able to handle the pressure that comes with playing for the club. The crazy fluctuation in form post-PSG suggests that they don't deal too well with set-backs, and the fact it's continued into this season only indicate it further. I think it's probably why we've been trying to get people like Evra involved as he himself is actually a stronger person to have around the dressing room.

Basically, I think this is something Ole needs to address, not necessarily tactics. I know phrases like 'winning mentality' are a bit of a cliche but we do seem to have a mentality problem, especially when we get into a poor run of form.

Also apologies if this is incoherent, I'm dog tired and the text is blurring into itself.

We have a young squad but you think the veteran players would kick the young players up the ass. I don't see any characters that fit that mentality. Rooney, Vidic, Evra, Rio, from SAF days were all capable of that. Apart from Zlatan, I can't think of any player that can be that player, to lift the mentality. We have a squad of individuals. Maguire can be that player but Young, Jones, DDG, are not that type of personality. Young may try but he just doesn't pull if off.

You would think Pogba is that man based on his WC performance and the way he was a leader in the France dressing room but he appears to be more involved with a move away than wanting to take his place as a leader at United.

 

[dev1l]

We have a young squad but you think the veteran players would kick the young players up the ass. I don't see any characters that fit that mentality. Rooney, Vidic, Evra, Rio, from SAF days were all capable of that. Apart from Zlatan, I can't think of any player that can be that player, to lift the mentality. We have a squad of individuals. Maguire can be that player but Young, Jones, DDG, are not that type of personality. Young may try but he just doesn't pull if off.

You would think Pogba is that man based on his WC performance and the way he was a leader in the France dressing room but he appears to be more involved with a move away than wanting to take his place as a leader at United.

Maguire maybe, a couple of months down the line

 

[rotherham_red]

A really good thread, and one I'd recommend everyone reads. Yesterday was tough, and it was by far the closest I've ever been to being anywhere near frustrated with Ole, but we have to take stock of where we were, are at, and where we're going.

He's been dealt a bad hand, but he hasn't used it as an excuse. He's putting faith in the young players to step up, and even moreso in the academy lads.

Will it work? I honestly don't have a clue, but after 6 years of largely teetering on the brink of one disaster to another, I'd rather we have this guy a chance when he's been the only person to actually care about the club and it's long-term success.

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