Ask him if he'd have Ole at his club
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Always find it amusing how fans of other clubs come on here acting holier than thou and telling us what we should and shouldn't do.
Exactly, and we're a complete mess! There's several managers on that lengthy list that I'm still annoyed we didn't even attempt to stick with. We've wasted money we don't have firing managers, and have made less than no progress. .
The posters support for Hartlepool doesn't suggest he agrees with his clubs policy. As for your second point, changing managers has hardly worked for United.
I love that you are unable to actually deny what I've stated, so you decide to whine about my not being a United fan instead. The irony being that I'm fairly certain that I've paid to watch Manchester United matches (of sorts) within Old Trafford more times than you or a lot of people on here have.
Always find it amusing how fans of other clubs come on here acting holier than thou and telling us what we should and shouldn't do.
Then why post on this forum if you're not welcoming debate?
You're absolutely right that Klopp would have probably come under some pressure if he finished in the league where he did with Liverpool. The fact that many United supporters have been spoilt with success over the last 25 years certainly contributes to current expectations. I'd argue, however, there are a couple mitigating circumstances which would have justified the criticism:
- The starting position was much stronger with us (at the time) than it was with Liverpool
- The resources available with us are greater than Liverpool. He would have been able to build his squad quicker.
Unfortunately, to suggest that Ole's reign is suggesting the same levels of progress is also laughable. I think most supporters would expect the occasional humiliation against the likes of Palace, West Ham, Newcastle, etc if it was countered with moments of brilliance.
The 'brilliance' just doesn't exist. There's no sign of any tactical awareness or even any plan B/C/D when things aren't working. As an example... even on Sunday, with minutes to go, Maguire remained our deepest-lying player. Why on earth hadn't we just pushed Rojo back to be last man and left Maguire in the box as an aerial threat?
If you read matchday threads etc you will see loads of people have done this.
Manutd have not only dropped points when the players have been injured.
We dropped points V Wolves, Southamton when the players were fit.
Pogba has missed a couple games, same with AWB.
The setup:
4-3-3
You have a back 5 that selects itself
De Gea AWB Lindelof Maguire Shaw
Mctominay Fred Pogba
Rashford Martial James
Well look at the facts.....
SAF was a genius and managed to keep winning with just enough, despite the Glazers 'There is no value in the market at the moment etc......' but the football wasn't as good in the latter years as the lack of investment started to have an effect on the squad. In 2013 we had one of the oldest teams in PL
The decline started in 2005 'The Glazers’ takeover has drained out of United more than £1bn in interest, costs, fees and dividends since 2005, not too far off the amount Mansour has invested into City'.
The double whammy of SAF and David Gill leaving in 2013 exposed the huge cracks.
Since then we have had Moyes, LVG, Mourinho, Ole. None of them have managed to hide the cracks (even Mourinho) simply because the cracks are too huge!
We could go out again and hire one of the best in the world and what do you think would happen? - as Albert Einstein allegedly said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" and he was a clever bar steward!
SAF was a genius and managed to keep winning with just enough, despite the Glazers 'There is no value in the market at the moment etc......' but the football wasn't as good in the latter years as the lack of investment started to have an effect on the squad. In 2013 we had one of the oldest teams in PL
The decline started in 2005 'The Glazers’ takeover has drained out of United more than £1bn in interest, costs, fees and dividends since 2005, not too far off the amount Mansour has invested into City'.
The double whammy of SAF and David Gill leaving in 2013 exposed the huge cracks.
Since then we have had Moyes, LVG, Mourinho, Ole. None of them have managed to hide the cracks (even Mourinho) simply because the cracks are too huge!
We could go out again and hire one of the best in the world and what do you think would happen? - as Albert Einstein allegedly said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" and he was a clever bar steward!
Being the club manager is about more than just selecting the starting 11. His hands may be tied in that respect, so then work on tactics and a style that's going to play to their relevant strengths.
I have no issue with Rashford, for example, continuing to being selected at the moment. Genuinely. However, it's clear as day that he needs to move out to the wide left where he is more comfortable and less under the spotlight. If he's 100% fit, as Ole claims, then his legs can do the running...
None of our managers really deserved more time though.
Moyes was a disaster, the less said about his tenure, the better, a colossal disaster and most knew it was coming.
Van Gaal couldn’t even cut it in the mid 10’s PL which was vastly inferior in quality to the current one, there were no “super teams” around, he couldn’t even finish in the top four and we were horrendous in Europe, not to mention the colossal waste of money and the first introduction of the club to the mercenary culture, not to mention the unwatchable fecking football.
Jose should’ve possibly been backed better in his final transfer window but he was burning up bridges left and right and I don’t see how we could’ve persisted with him after that.
Ole is a fantastic guy and a club legend but he is horrendously out of his depth.
If you want to bring up the Liverpool example, 90’s Liverpool would’ve been arguably far better off with sacking Roy Evans far earlier than they did, there were far better managers around who could’ve gotten a lot more out of that side, we’re glad they chose to stick with Evans.
Look how quickly they fecked Dalglish off, imagine they stuck with him.
Basic standards should be kept.
The player's lack of quality is of course a problem. But any decent coach would get the best out of what we has. You can't play expansive open attacking attractive football with what we have. So what does Ole try to do? Try to play open attacking football. The opposition got on to it and refused to oblige by leaving space behind their defence. Now Ole has no other plan. That's why we are so terrible.
He needs to get a system or way of playing that these players can play.
I would go with a diamond and play Jones as the holding midfield player. Rojo on the left side of the midfield with Scott on the right and Pogba on the top of the diamond.
Why Rojo? Because he has decent pace, is very strong in the tackle, can dribble a bit, can shoot from long range, is a good header of the ball. His passing is not very bad either. He will make it more tough for the opposition to attack on our left side with Rojo rather than Pogba.
Pogba pushed forward means he doesn't have to defend that much and he is closer to the front two and create more chances. He can shoot from long range too and because he is so good they have to have two marking him when he is so forward.
We should get our set pieces right. Near post corner, near post corner flick on for a far post header towards goal, near post corner flick to far post to head back across the goal. These are some of the things we need to practice with good headers of the ball like Maguire, Rojo, Jones, Pogba, McTominay.
But Ole has done nothing to change anything. He has no clue I feel. It's always Mata and Periera.
He needs to get a system or way of playing that these players can play.
I would go with a diamond and play Jones as the holding midfield player. Rojo on the left side of the midfield with Scott on the right and Pogba on the top of the diamond.
Why Rojo? Because he has decent pace, is very strong in the tackle, can dribble a bit, can shoot from long range, is a good header of the ball. His passing is not very bad either. He will make it more tough for the opposition to attack on our left side with Rojo rather than Pogba.
Pogba pushed forward means he doesn't have to defend that much and he is closer to the front two and create more chances. He can shoot from long range too and because he is so good they have to have two marking him when he is so forward.
We should get our set pieces right. Near post corner, near post corner flick on for a far post header towards goal, near post corner flick to far post to head back across the goal. These are some of the things we need to practice with good headers of the ball like Maguire, Rojo, Jones, Pogba, McTominay.
But Ole has done nothing to change anything. He has no clue I feel. It's always Mata and Periera.
We've been far more patient with managers than most other European giants. It's mental that people expect managers who are paid millions of pounds a year (none of them were working here for free btw) are allowed to spend 100s of millions of pounds, but are not allowed to be held accountable for meeting the minimum expectation - which is just anything close to decent football, and finishing in the top 4.
How long does Moyes last at Bayern, Barca, Madrid, City, Juventus or any of the Milan clubs?
Does Van Gaal make it through December at any of those clubs? Bayern sacked Van Gaal part way through the season, after he won them a league title and got them to their first CL final in 8 years.
Does Mourinho even leave the post-Seville press conference alive at any of those clubs?
One of the biggest reasons we're in this mess, is that we're giving poorly performing people too much time to burn the house down. Other clubs choose to cut loose quickly, so that they can move on quickly.
What is there to deny? You've made up a fictional example and generalised a whole fanbase based on that. Get off your high horse and look at the deeper issues at the club rather putting the blame on the fans for having expectations.
Pochettino isn't really proven. He's done well at Spurs with what he's had but it took him 4 seasons to get there, he certainly won't get that at United. Can we also afford to gamble on a manager that has never won a trophy and is struggling to motivate a team with similar issues to the one's we're having? Most of those Tottenham players owe Pochettino for their careers but they're certainly not playing like it. If he gets sacked from Tottenham then why would our players view him as anything more than a manager that once got to a Champions League final?
If we did hire him, he'd get a free pass this year but if we don't hit the ground running next season he'll be out before Christmas and here we are again.
I just think at this point of where we are as a club, we'd be setting Pochettino up for failure by hiring him now whereas someone like Allegri would raise the standards and set in stone a more demanding culture from day one. The man has won pretty much everything and although the football may be dour on occasion we need to return to winning and setting high expectations before anything else.
Plus, Woodward would bend Pochettino over every chance he got, Allergi would walk if he was promised players in the summer and didn't get them.
So you didn’t agree with the sacking of Moyes? The appointment of Van Gaal? The signings of Di Maria, Falcao and Pogba? The sacking of Van Gaal? The appointment of Jose? Jose’s extension? Jose’s sacking? Ole being appointed full-time?
I would bet my bank account there’s loads of posts from you supporting most of these decisions
Do you realise what Spurs were 5 years ago? How much money he has had to spend?
The reason he is struggling is not because of him being a poor motivator. You have players in the dressing room who do not want to be there in Aurier, Rose, Erikson, Toby which disrupts the dressing room.
He has single handedly taken Spurs from challenging top 4 on the odd occasion to contenders and CL finalists.
What says if we went for Allegri, we won't be in the position next year too?
So raise standards like Jose and LVG did? look what happened there.. And Jose didnt even walk after Woodward failed to back him in the last window.
Allegri is another manager with pedigree but plays the same Jose style which is what we do not want.
the reason why Poch would get time, most of the fans want him and if the fans choice is the one in charge, they will be patient.
But this is my point. Ed is a mirror of our fanbase. He acts like a fan and you all act like Ed
What are you talking about LVG couldn't cut it?
He got us back in the CL in his first season, then missed out on 4th in second season on goal difference to Man City and won the FA CUP. If Ole had managed a season like that he'd be considered a God
All of his signings were players the fanbase were clamoring for, including Depay when we were battling for his signature with Liverpool.
Numerous players improved under his management from smalling, Herrera, Fellaini, Rashford and Martial.
Hardly the diastrous reign it has been painted out to be, minus the unsightly football at times.
A bit more patience with more backing and eventually he would have improved the performances on the pitch, which we had shown glimpses of in the big games against City Tottenham and Liverpool
We actually played dominate possession based football, which is what now a lot of fans are crying for
So don't ever put LGV in the same league as this current clown in charge.
He is the club's self-appointed DoF, so he does pick the team in a manner of speaking. At the very least, he lays the foundation for the manager to work with through his choice player purchases.
In any case, doesn't the fact that two of the games most decorated managers (LVG & Mourinho) failing miserably in their task of elevating this club back to a position relatable to its near-endless resources appear odd?
Under Woodward's leadership this club has spent £800 million on transfer acquisitions since Fergie retired (about 21 players) and all but 3 of those players remain at the club in a somewhat working capacity. £800 million spent in five years. The club currently finds itself 12th in the league and falling. Rapidly.
Man City spent in the region of £1 billion on transfers in the same time period, allowing them to form arguably the greatest team the PL has ever seen and claim multiple league titles and cups in the process.
The difference in transfer expenditure between the two clubs is minimal (relatively speaking) but the difference in terms of squad ability and respective levels of success is gargantuan.
That’s complete revisionism.
Van Gaal defenders keep bringing up those 3 matches vs City, Liverpool and Spurs, ffs that was in his first season, that was 3 matches, that is all, there were literally no signs of any improvement in the team beyond that.
His tenure brought the club its first ever taste of the mercenary culture, that was never apart of the club when Sir Alex was around.
We were shite in his second season, really really shite, the FA cup win was nice but it was nothing to build on, there was no improvement in play.
Van Gaal’s signings were a disaster, an absolute costly disaster, “the fans were clamoring for these signings”, that’s a poor argument, I don’t know, I never thought we should sign Rojo, Schweinsteiger or Depay.
He couldn’t even get us out of that piss easy group in the CL, his second season was poor and he was rightly sacked.
No need to call Ole a clown really...
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Don't rule it out with WoodwardWhen I say fans were clamoring for his signings, I'm talking about these signings
Sneiderlin
Depay
Falcao
Di Maria
Luke Shaw
Martial
Herrera
The only mercenaries you can argue out of that list who he brought to the club were Falcao and Di Maria.
That's 2players. So where is this idea that he brought with him a gang of bandits of mercenaries? Mourinho brought in far more mercenaries in fact.
All his signings are only poor in hindsight in relation to disappointing performances, di maria becoming unsettled, falcao not being the same player and Depay not adapting to the prem., but there were successful signings in Martial, Blind, Hererara and Shaw (until the broken leg)
Not to mention he was bringing in young players who actually improved under his watch
LVG also tried to sign Mane who people at the time thought was a joke player.
So when you look at things objectively instead of going with the same trotted out narrative that LVG was doing an awful job and taking us backwards, you can see the progress and the signs of improvements from personnel, and tactical approach and silverware.
A bit more patience and the performances would have inevitably improved, as LVG would have adapted, as he was attempting to restructure how our players approached each game and retain possession on a more technical level. They were actually getting coached on how to improve their technical ability and how to read the game during the match.
Each and every player knew exactly what they had been instructed to do on the pitch instead of these sundy league instructions to go play, tun and express yourselves this is the united way bollocks.
Another season and we would have kicked on following the FA cup win.
Now we completely dismantled everything he was building and went for the short term quick success option which backfired and today we're at the sentimental liverpool stage of delusion in believing that a legend will transform into Fergie even given time.
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Exactly. He gets paid his £4m a year or whatever it is for a reason. He's suppose to be leading one of the biggest clubs in the world in the right direction and to a better standard than our rivals. Alas...
If he got sacked, or when, will he get another job in one of the big 4 leagues?
Not a chance. He might get a job back in Norway, but no one will have any interest in him, much like before he took over.
Glad the board are being sensible. He has had less than a year in the job
I don't recall us doing anything significant with a fully fit squad - both end of last season or this. Take out the Chelsea result and you would have to go back a long, long way before you could say you thought we played like a good attacking unit - which is what we were sold an idea on.
Blame the team? Many of the same players who have been tumescent under 4 different managers are still there now, with them being rewarded with fat new contracts! What in all the fecks do you mean by blaming the team? If the players were held accountable for their failures, there would only be around 5 of the current squad remaining...
The state of the absolute bollocks being spouted on here, "blame the team again", dearie fecking me...
Injuries apart, it seems to me the problems easy to spot. Against teams that are open and attacking we've done well, beating Chelsea and Leicester and drawing against Wolves and Arsenal. Against teams who shut up shop we haven't a clue that's why CP/Newcastle beat us; West Ham, was... well we didn't get off the bus did we?
We were not a top six team last year and we won't be this year, our target has to be to stay in the top half of the table and try to devise some tactics for playing against teams who play deep, with two banks of 4 or a 5-4-1 formation in a defensive mode. Midfielders, if they cannot create have to double up and protect against breakaways, to give our back three a chance to recover properly, from say our poorest corner kicks which always seem to hand the advantage to the opposition... sorry I mean all our corner kicks!
Ole's going nowhere for the time being, at least I hope not, he has to clear up the mess that's what he was brought in for, then perhaps we can look elsewhere. No decent manager will leave a decent job to come here, not anymore, we are the 'poisoned chalice'.
We were not a top six team last year and we won't be this year, our target has to be to stay in the top half of the table and try to devise some tactics for playing against teams who play deep, with two banks of 4 or a 5-4-1 formation in a defensive mode. Midfielders, if they cannot create have to double up and protect against breakaways, to give our back three a chance to recover properly, from say our poorest corner kicks which always seem to hand the advantage to the opposition... sorry I mean all our corner kicks!
Ole's going nowhere for the time being, at least I hope not, he has to clear up the mess that's what he was brought in for, then perhaps we can look elsewhere. No decent manager will leave a decent job to come here, not anymore, we are the 'poisoned chalice'.
Roy Keane said it - the same players who let Jose down will let Ole down
Jose said - In the long run the manager will be a puppet
Both are right, that is what is happening.
I personally don't think Ole is the man for the job but in his defence:
He trusted the players that other managers trusted and they have failed him badly. He got rid pf players to give them a run which are.. Lingard, Rashford, Fred, Perreira, Mata, Pogba.
Ole's biggest mistake is trusting the players and they should all be sacked from the club too. They are not fit to be Manutd players.
Jose said - In the long run the manager will be a puppet
Both are right, that is what is happening.
I personally don't think Ole is the man for the job but in his defence:
He trusted the players that other managers trusted and they have failed him badly. He got rid pf players to give them a run which are.. Lingard, Rashford, Fred, Perreira, Mata, Pogba.
Ole's biggest mistake is trusting the players and they should all be sacked from the club too. They are not fit to be Manutd players.
Its funny when with Jose its all manager's fault but when Ole cant perform with the very much same players it's all players's fault. Take away Ole the player replace him with Jose with this result, everyone would be happy if someone make a death threat to him right now. A truly hyprocite in the finest.
Those who wants Ole's out dont need much at the moment. A simple sorts of recognisable game plan and tactic on the field would be suffice. A proof that he is coaching this team with some ideas which is void right now.
Those who wants Ole's out dont need much at the moment. A simple sorts of recognisable game plan and tactic on the field would be suffice. A proof that he is coaching this team with some ideas which is void right now.
If Ole spent the best part of £400m assembling such shite after 3 summer transfer windows, then the knives would be out for him just as much.
As it is, he hasn't. And our best players have been his buys.
The board don't want to be chopping & changing managers all the time. I'm sure they would have accepted a mid-table finish this season. We could then make more signings in the Summer & push on to CL qualification. I don't think becoming involved in a relegation fight this season entered the equation. Ole has been unlucky with some results this season. It's clear though that he doesn't know how to arrest the slide. It's hard to see where our next goal let alone our next win comes from. I think he's gone if we lose to Liverpool at OT.
Think it's more likely the board wait for easier fixtures. If Ole is fired, the new manager's first match will be the Brighton home match Nov. 10th.
Irrespective of transfers, his idea and game plan is just void.
Doesnt that the thing that made Ole hired in the first place? Make this squad happy because this squad is abundance with talent and just let them play. Its literally Ole own words.
Beating Newcastle, AZ, Rochdale should be doable even with depleted squad. Even take away the results, the manner we did it just inexcusable.
Whats Ole game plan? What exactly his tactic? Thats the thing that matter right now. The thing that people hate Jose about. Tactic. Style of play. The things that doesnt need 400million to solved and wasted.
You can say that he always says the right things, United way this, hard work that, etc, but if nothing resemblance a well drilled squad on the pitch, he just as hyprocite as Jose was.
Our best player to his date still Pogba as inconsistent as he is.
Moyes sacking? He should have been sacked in early December after back to back home defeats. Everyone knew he was out of his depth at that stage. He got 5 months more than he should have.
LVG? No. I wanted Klopp.
LVG sacking? He should have been sacked around Oct 2015 when we were going week after week without creating any chances never mind scoring. At the very latest he should have been shown the door the moment he got eliminated from the CL group. He got 7-8 months more than he should have.
Jose appointment? No. I wanted Pep. If we had acted early enough with the LVG sacking we could have maybe had a chance with Pep.
Jose extension? No. Why the feck give him an extension when he still had half of his original contract left?
Jose sacking? He should have been booted straight after those embarrassing performances against Sevilla. He got 8-9 months more than he should have.
Anyone that claims that they weren't excited by the signings of Di Maria, Pogba etc. is lying. As supporters all you can do is get behind the signings and hope for the best. You'd hope the club would do some background research and critical thinking before signing players though. Why would Bayern sell a club legend to us for peanuts? Why would Chelsea sell us a midfielder that had been a key part of their title win just months earlier? Why were Arsenal that desperate to get rid of their best attacker that they did a straight swap with us for a far inferior player? What was the reasoning behind paying an extreme fee for a guy from the Ukrainian league?
Woodward has been the red herring through our demise since 2013. As a Woodward apologist it must be tough to take but that's the reality.
Well Ole spent a lot this year, do you believe he will win two cups like Jose did in his first year?
Also there's nothing to suggest Maguire, AWB and James are our best players. Pogba definitely is one of them, DDG is another, Martial is another.
Isn't it premature to label 80m pounds Maguire a success? Same for AWB?
Can’t believe he hasn’t been sacked yet.
We’re the laughing stock of English football & accepting that we really aren’t that bothered with progressing or getting better
Would any big club in world football accept such an awful manager in charge?? I just don’t understand what’s happening to us
We’re the laughing stock of English football & accepting that we really aren’t that bothered with progressing or getting better
Would any big club in world football accept such an awful manager in charge?? I just don’t understand what’s happening to us
Also Crystal Palace we didn’t really have any injuries either, maybe Shaw. Also I’ve seen enough of Fred now, he’s not going to turn it around, I’d rather see Andreas in a CM role. Honestly Kleberson was a better player than Fred, atleast he scored a few good goals, wth does this guy do?
I can’t believe how quick and happy our fans are to start a ‘sack the manager’ campaign. It seems the majority of the lot are so used to fire fighting they have abandoned all thought on why these fires have to be put out in the first place. Disappointed by the reaction of the fans and reluctance to apportion any blame to Ed and the Glazers.
The only way we will ever succeed under this board and CEO is through a lucky managerial appointment. Years more of mediocrity await us and the fans would have played their part in it.
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