Are the pundits being kinder to Ole than Jose?

[Ekeke]

Mourinho won two trophies in his first season.



What is Mourinho’s mess?
Sanchez? Fair enough.
Lukaku? Not exactly a top player and I wasn’t a fan myself but a far more consistent goalscorer than Rashford.
If you haven’t noticed Ole created some
mess himself, Mata and Jones were given new contracts under his regime, why? what for? both are miles more “deadwood” than Smalling or Fellaini.
Sold Fellaini who was an actually effective option to have from the bench, yet has given the painfully average Pereira a new contract.

The team looks more under coached and has less character the longer Ole has been here.

A team that had the 2nd best defensive record in the league (off first by a single goal) and came second in the league, then Mourinho talked shit about the defenders in the summer and he kept shoving midfielders next to the CBs in a 3 throughout the season. We had Ander, McTominay and Fellaini all babysitting the CBs instead of letting them deal with their own issue, which some clearly could do since they were extremely solid just 1 season before. We invited pressure and having our DMs play in extra CB positions we constantly conceded goals with the ball coming to someone on the edge of the box, where normally a DM would patrol and pressure. But we had them at CB so they were inside the box and helpless to stop us conceding.

I agree that Ole hasn't taken the team in a direction I can agree with. But he clearly inherited a mess from Mourinho. I just can't say I think he's improved on what he had last season, I'd honestly say we're 25% worse

 

[VP89]

A team that had the 2nd best defensive record in the league (off first by a single goal) and came second in the league, then Mourinho talked shit about the defenders in the summer and he kept shoving midfielders next to the CBs in a 3 throughout the season. We had Ander, McTominay and Fellaini all babysitting the CBs instead of letting them deal with their own issue, which some clearly could do since they were extremely solid just 1 season before. We invited pressure and having our DMs play in extra CB positions we constantly conceded goals with the ball coming to someone on the edge of the box, where normally a DM would patrol and pressure. But we had them at CB so they were inside the box and helpless to stop us conceding.

I agree that Ole hasn't taken the team in a direction I can agree with. But he clearly inherited a mess from Mourinho. I just can't say I think he's improved on what he had last season, I'd honestly say we're 25% worse

To be frank, if anyone knows how to evaluate a defence its Jose Mourinho. If he says they're shit it's because they were. But he at least organised their sorry selves the best I've seen since Ferguson. Now they just look all over the place despite having an 80m improvement there.

 

[Ekeke]

To be frank, if anyone knows how to evaluate a defence its Jose Mourinho. If he says they're shit it's because they were. But he at least organised their sorry selves the best I've seen since Ferguson. Now they just look all over the place despite having an 80m improvement there.

I don't care if you're frank, nobody in their right mind would call what he did with our defense last season a success. With the same players this season we'd have done much better just due to not having a DM come in at CB and instead play as a normal DM.

 

[VP89]

I don't care if you're frank, nobody in their right mind would call what he did with our defense last season a success. With the same players this season we'd have done much better just due to not having a DM come in at CB and instead play as a normal DM.

You're just being presumptious now. This season we look worse than we did last season.

 

[fastwalker]

Feel free to group into his dedicated thread if you feel more suitable

I was listening to a podcast earlier and it raised a very interesting point that almost all the former United players are being very quick to support Ole potentially because they played with him however Jose (who did help contribute to his own downfall) they were very quick to slate

I hadn't really noticed it and while I don't want people being vitriolic about it, do we feel he is getting a slightly easier ride than our previous managers have? The podcast (cant remember what one as listened to 2) said if you're going to hammer Jose dont have different standards for Ole just because he's your mate

However is this also represented across the fan base for example the poll on here and people perhaps slightly looking at him through rose tinted glasses due to his standing from when he was a player

I'm not calling for them to absolutely slate him, however could they perhaps look at him a bit more detached and analyse perhaps where it's gone wrong for him- its perhaps the same way Pogba gets hit harder than say Rashford though they did call Rashford out after the Newcastle game?

I do feel some sympathy for Ole as he does love the club and wanted to help us and I also had silly "Disneyland" type dreams and visions of him coming in, integrating the kids and making progress, leading to trophies, however unfortunately it's now got to the point where he is compromising us and out of his depth so time to go- I still respect him as a player but even though we are so bad under him I felt dislike towards Moyes, Ole I feel is helpless and needs to go but I cant bring myself to dislike him

Massively so! Ole comes across as a slightly hapless figure more deserving of sympathy than derision. The smiling 'babyface' who is utterly out of his depth and whose ineptitude is largely overlooked because of a heroic act performed twenty years ago. An act for that matter that has absolutely no bearing on his current role as manager.

By contrast, Jose is the pantomime villain. If Ole is ever-smiling, then Jose is the brooding, menacing one. Seemingly unhappy unless there is some meaningless scrap or scuffle to occupy his time. Jose will cross the road for an argument, just to antagonise someone.

Of course Ole is getting an easier ride that Jose. Why wouldn't he?

 

[Ekeke]

You're just being presumptious now. This season we look worse than we did last season.

Going forward I agree. Defensively we look better, because its hard to look as bad as we did with Mourinho's tactics after he sabotaged the defense

 

[VP89]

Going forward I agree. Defensively we look better, because its hard to look as bad as we did with Mourinho's tactics after he sabotaged the defense

He sabotaged the defence? He needed a player or two and wasn't given any from his shortlist. Of course he made errors with Bailey and Lindelof was settling in over the season, but it's clear any manager would make transfer hiccups over their tenure under this shit set up.

Defensively I don't agree that we look better. I find teams create, and can put us away at will unless they have an off game. I'm just thanking my lucky stars Leicester and Wolves couldn't be bothered against us.

 

[Ekeke]

He sabotaged the defence? He needed a player or two and wasn't given any from his shortlist. Of course he made errors with Bailey and Lindelof was settling in over the season, but it's clear any manager would make transfer hiccups over their tenure under this shit set up.

Defensively I don't agree that we look better. I find teams create, and can put us away at will unless they have an off game. I'm just thanking my lucky stars Leicester and Wolves couldn't be bothered against us.

He obviously didnt need a few players, we had a great defensive record till he talked shit about the players. He'd also signed multiple CBs himself

 

[Jonno]

No, he's had 1 season at this point and less than half a season with his own players instead of dealing with Mourinho's mess

And seemingly well out of his depth. Mourinho had to deal with LVG’s mess, his squad was incredibly unbalanced and full of flop signings, but he didn’t have us down in the bottom half of the league.

 

[VP89]

He obviously didnt need a few players, we had a great defensive record till he talked shit about the players. He'd also signed multiple CBs himself

Yeah, he talked some shit but he wasn't tactically inept or unaware on a good way to set up the team. Mourinho if backed in that summer would have been far, far better than Ole now. Ole is magnitudes worse than Jose was for us, I'm shocked it's even a comparison.

 

[Jonno]

Mourinho won two trophies in his first season..

Correct, he won 2 trophies in his first season, and finished 2nd in the PL and reached the FA Cup final in his 2nd season. Both better than Ole’s current season.

 

[Ekeke]

Yeah, he talked some shit but he wasn't tactically inept or unaware on a good way to set up the team. Mourinho if backed in that summer would have been far, far better than Ole now. Ole is magnitudes worse than Jose was for us, I'm shocked it's even a comparison.

Judging by watching his team, yes he was tactically inept

 

[Velvet Revolver]

Are the pundits being kinder to Ole than Jose? - I think everyone is not just pundits!

 

[VP89]

Judging by watching his team, yes he was tactically inept

You said it yourself, it went tits up when he started talking shit about his players.

 

[Lentwood]

I like Ole but seriously, is this even a question????

Ole has had it easy given our form. Jose got 81pts and all the pundits had to say was “should have won the league considering money spent”

 

[vangagal]

I like Ole but seriously, is this even a question????

Ole has had it easy given our form. Jose got 81pts and all the pundits had to say was “should have won the league considering money spent”

We are currently on track for half of that this season. Amazing turn around by Ole.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

A team that had the 2nd best defensive record in the league (off first by a single goal) and came second in the league, then Mourinho talked shit about the defenders in the summer and he kept shoving midfielders next to the CBs in a 3 throughout the season. We had Ander, McTominay and Fellaini all babysitting the CBs instead of letting them deal with their own issue, which some clearly could do since they were extremely solid just 1 season before. We invited pressure and having our DMs play in extra CB positions we constantly conceded goals with the ball coming to someone on the edge of the box, where normally a DM would patrol and pressure. But we had them at CB so they were inside the box and helpless to stop us conceding.

I agree that Ole hasn't taken the team in a direction I can agree with. But he clearly inherited a mess from Mourinho. I just can't say I think he's improved on what he had last season, I'd honestly say we're 25% worse

Being second best defence in the league isn't all that when the whole team is set up to shield the defence, and it certainly doesn't mean the defenders are up to the job. Even under LVG procession meant that they were rarely tested.

I don't think Mourinho was calling out for defenders because he likes to hoard them, but rather because he needed something the ones he had couldn't provide.

 

[Ekeke]

Being second best defence in the league isn't all that when the whole team is set up to shield the defence, and it certainly doesn't mean the defenders are up to the job. Even under LVG procession meant that they were rarely tested.

I don't think Mourinho was calling out for defenders because he likes to hoard them, but rather because he needed something the ones he had couldn't provide.

It might be set up that way, but with Matic leaving gaping holes we gave opponents plenty of chances. The defense was well tested, but of course De Gea was in form and made some great saves too

He was calling out for defenders because he signed 2 and neither 1 was playing well and we ended up with Jones and Smalling.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

The british former united players are all protective, as they usually are with United in general and were with Jose for a long time.

The others are not. So neither are really objective or either underrate or overrate the players ability and those injured.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Yes, obviously.

The personality difference is probably why.

 

[TRUERED89]

Apart from the ex-United pundits, no one has given him that easy of a ride. Jamie Redknapp said after Newcastle "how did the Molde & Cardiff manager get the Man United job, he's no where near qualified" Souness expression also seemed to agree. Whilst both of them are cnuts they are impartial and say it how they see it. So I don't think anyone outside of the United circle is giving Ole a pass.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

It might be set up that way, but with Matic leaving gaping holes we gave opponents plenty of chances. The defense was well tested, but of course De Gea was in form and made some great saves too

He was calling out for defenders because he signed 2 and neither 1 was playing well and we ended up with Jones and Smalling.

Agree with all of that.

The point about his 2 signings not working out is interesting. Of course not all signings will work out, but it makes you wonder who recommends the players, who scouts them and who sanctions the deal.

 

[Mike Phelan's Former Tash]

I don't think any pundit is giving Ole an easy ride. The knives were being sharpened in preseason, everyone was predicting failure for him going into the season.

It's just really really disappointing that they have been right so far.

It would be interesting to see the reaction if we beat Liverpool Sunday but let's be honest - it's highly unlikely and its probably going to get worse.

 

[pacifictheme]

They were which is bizarre considering jose won us the league.

 

[devilish]

Yes, obviously.

The personality difference is probably why.

+ the fact half of the pundits played either played with the guy or are colleagues to those who did. Its typically scratch my back and I scratch yours sort of thing.

 

[Offside]

Here’s the difference between Ole and all the other managers bar Moyes who was the worst of the worst: Ole isn’t managing a team full of his own flops.

 

[3KDré]

Here’s the difference between Ole and all the other managers bar Moyes who was the worst of the worst: Ole isn’t managing a team full of his own flops.

He shouldn't need a team of his own players to beat Crystal Palace, Bournemouth, Newcastle etc. He has not improved more than 2/3 aspects of our play and it isn't good enough.

 

[Offside]

He shouldn't need a team of his own players to beat Crystal Palace, Bournemouth, Newcastle etc. He has not improved more than 2/3 aspects of our play and it isn't good enough.

Nope I think I agree but that is the difference.

 

[VP89]

Here’s the difference between Ole and all the other managers bar Moyes who was the worst of the worst: Ole isn’t managing a team full of his own flops.

You don't need him to spunk a few hundred million to know he'd still be a flop though. Its dead obvious.

 

[VP89]

Yes, obviously.

The personality difference is probably why.

I don't think it's that. It's more Jose came with big expectation whereas Ole was an experiment. If the experiment failed its Woodward who gets slammed by the media not Ole. And that's what's been happening.

 

[Bobski]

Yes, but that is what tends to happen when one is a nice guy and the other is a world class dickhead.

 

[Darlington Padgett]

A team that had the 2nd best defensive record in the league (off first by a single goal) and came second in the league, then Mourinho talked shit about the defenders in the summer and he kept shoving midfielders next to the CBs in a 3 throughout the season. We had Ander, McTominay and Fellaini all babysitting the CBs instead of letting them deal with their own issue, which some clearly could do since they were extremely solid just 1 season before. We invited pressure and having our DMs play in extra CB positions we constantly conceded goals with the ball coming to someone on the edge of the box, where normally a DM would patrol and pressure. But we had them at CB so they were inside the box and helpless to stop us conceding.

I agree that Ole hasn't taken the team in a direction I can agree with. But he clearly inherited a mess from Mourinho. I just can't say I think he's improved on what he had last season, I'd honestly say we're 25% worse

Everyone in here said we needed defenders not only Mourinho. We had Baily, Rojo, Jones who can't stay fit and didnt even play, so we had to do with Smalling and Lindelof. We had Valencia and Ashley young and Shaw that can't stay fit. We needed defenders.

 

[MackRobinson]

They were which is bizarre considering jose won us the League Cup.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Escobar]

Ole's fanboys mistake Ole the player with Ole the manager. If he would not have played for United they wanted him out long time ago

 

[MackRobinson]

If anything Jose received more of a pass despite being a grade-A cnut, horrendous in the transfer market, making the Sevilla rant, and failing all the targets he said he would achieve. And yet he still gets another, relatively, big job with Spurs.

 

[RedCoffee]

Of course they should be kinder. There's a learning curve with Ole so we need to be patient. Jose was a proven manager so had to deliver from the start.

 

[Ekeke]

Everyone in here said we needed defenders not only Mourinho. We had Baily, Rojo, Jones who can't stay fit and didnt even play, so we had to do with Smalling and Lindelof. We had Valencia and Ashley young and Shaw that can't stay fit. We needed defenders.

Not everyone, a lot of people on here. Thats not a good thing, they're usually wrong

 

[Catt]

It won't matter how nice/mean the media is as results will decide.

 

[Lord-Rataxes]

Ole's fanboys mistake Ole the player with Ole the manager. If he would not have played for United they wanted him out long time ago

If he hadn't played for us, he would never gave gotten anywhere near the job in the first place.

 

[pacifictheme]

Fixed it for you.

Not very well. He also won the uefa cup but my post was more a joke about man city being stripped of league titles as thry are massive cheats.