simplyared
Full Member
DM Alonso
CM Gerrard
B to B Keane
AM Yaya Toure
CM Gerrard
B to B Keane
AM Yaya Toure
Expressly stated central midfield. And Scholes was world class in each of the roles.Gerrard. RM AMC CM (B2B) SS RAM and DMC(start of career). Gerrard the most versatile
Better athlete? Roy Keane's engine was out of this world, which is where he could drive the team well beyond the 80 minute mark. Vieira and Keane don't really cross paths in how they played the role, anyway, as it's like comparing a distance runner with a middle distance one - the attributes don't have to overlap, although I think stamina is a huge asset in the greatest b2b midfielders and you won't find many with Keane's engine, let alone those who surpass it.Depends what you regard Box to box. Vieira was the far better athlete who I would fancy to launch attacks and counters at pace Keane could not emulate. In attack Keane bagged 60 Prem goals and assists in 366 games. Vieira bagged 58 in 307. Which aspect of being box to box does Keane exceed Vieira?
Gerrard never excelled as a straight cm.DM Alonso
CM Gerrard
B to B Keane
AM Yaya Toure
He did he won a CL, was named on the PFA team of the year countless times as a CM, to say Gerrard didn't excel as a CM is either a myth , or your definition of 'excelling' is one held by a very minute few in the history of football, Xavi, Matthaus and etc.Gerrard never excelled as a straight cm.
Gerrard excelled in anumber of roles, he was world class as a right midfielder, world class as a CM and AM, and had good seasons at both end of his career as a DM. For example in his 2nd to last season he played as a Deep lying playmaker, at 34, made it into the team of the year and on the ball did his best impression of a Scholes Pirlo lite, he was one of the best Dms in Europe that season, as he was at 20-21 breaking through.Expressly stated central midfield. And Scholes was world class in each of the roles.
Gerrard played a number of roles, he was a tactical liability in a lot of roles, which is why he was shuffled about a bit until he matured.
Nobody mentioned has the consistency/pedigree to the same degree. You can slap roles on a lot of players (Keane the CB, for example) but their effectiveness in those positions, if not to standard, does not make them versatile.
If we're expanding beyond central midfield, Scholes also has 5 positions to his name, being top class in 4 of them.
Lampards passing is the quality of his that gets underrated, not as good as Scholes or De Bruyne per se, but you look back at some of his videos and you'd be surprised just how many quality assists from terrific passes he made that best swooped under the radar to highlight other less glamorous qualities.Feel Lampard is quite underappreciated at times. He wasn't the greatest technically but that doesn't mean he lacked any technical ability, he was a very intelligent player in his own right
He was capable of spraying passes around the field and over the top, his movement was fantastic, his finishing was also fantastic, he never went hiding and always rose to the occasion and scored goals for fun.
He's the 4th highest scorer in Premier League history, has the 4th highest amount of assists in Premier League history, has scored over 270 goals in his career, has basically won everything at club level and came 2nd in the Ballon d'Or losing out to Ronaldinho in 2005
From an attacking sense the likes of De Bruyne, Toure, Fabregas and Silva don't even come close for me
The likes of Lampard, Scholes, Vieira, Keane and Gerrard are the greatest midfielders the Premier League has seen
Spot on. It's a good discussion, but it would be interesting to get a take from outwith the fans of Utd/City/Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea.One of these debates that will always have Liverpool insisting Gerrard was the best, Chelsea, Lampard and us Keane and Scholes.
And ended his career as a mainly defensive midfielder. Was never a winger and why bring it into the equation if him starting as a striker isn’t relevant?As a midfielder, which is what the thread was about. He started as an attacker, and converted to an attacking midfielder. He never developed a defensive side to the game and was awful playing from wide for England
I don't know about fans but whenever I hear ex-players speak about the 3 on TV, they almost always pick Scholes. A few pick Gerrard. With the exception of former Chelsea players, I have never heard a single one pick Lampard. I have great respect for Lampard but I don't think he's quite there with Scholes or Gerrard. It's Scholes hands down for me; of course, I'm biased but that's how I feel. The way he used to control games late in his career was a thing of beauty. I really miss watching him.Spot on. It's a good discussion, but it would be interesting to get a take from outwith the fans of Utd/City/Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea.
I don't disagree with your view there. Probably worth highlighting though that Gerrard has 8 PL team of the year awards, nominated by all the other players in the league, compared to Lampard's 3 and Scholes' 0.I don't know about fans but whenever I hear ex-players speak about the 3 on TV, they almost always pick Scholes. A few pick Gerrard. With the exception of former Chelsea players, I have never heard a single one pick Lampard. I have great respect for Lampard but I don't think he's quite there with Scholes or Gerrard. It's Scholes hands down for me; of course, I'm biased but that's how I feel. The way he used to control games late in his career was a thing of beauty. I really miss watching him.
I always found that odd, but I wonder whether that reflects on the style of English players at the time. If you asked Europeans to rate Scholes vs Lampard vs Gerrard I think the result would be overwhelmingly in favour of Scholes.I don't disagree with your view there. Probably worth highlighting though that Gerrard has 8 PL team of the year awards, nominated by all the other players in the league, compared to Lampard's 3 and Scholes' 0.
It's always Neville selling Scholes and Carragher selling Gerrard, and their guests going with one or the other - rinse and repeat. Ex-pros on TV is probably the least informative way to come to a conclusion about this.I don't know about fans but whenever I hear ex-players speak about the 3 on TV, they almost always pick Scholes. A few pick Gerrard. With the exception of former Chelsea players, I have never heard a single one pick Lampard. I have great respect for Lampard but I don't think he's quite there with Scholes or Gerrard. It's Scholes hands down for me; of course, I'm biased but that's how I feel. The way he used to control games late in his career was a thing of beauty. I really miss watching him.
Scholes being world class in each role is a contentious issue and had a whole thread on it. Scholes the world class CM was left out of the 1st team in some of our most vital games in 99 (champions league quarters away vs Inter, champs league semi away vs Juve) and was shuffled out of position for Veron. Gerrard was actually world class in his various roles and won countless individual accolades on both domestic and European stages, often making team of the season in both categories.Expressly stated central midfield. And Scholes was world class in each of the roles.
Gerrard played a number of roles, he was a tactical liability in a lot of roles, which is why he was shuffled about a bit until he matured.
Nobody mentioned has the consistency/pedigree to the same degree. You can slap roles on a lot of players (Keane the CB, for example) but their effectiveness in those positions, if not to standard, does not make them versatile.
If we're expanding beyond central midfield, Scholes also has 5 positions to his name, being top class in 4 of them.
He wasnt a defensive midfielder. He was a deep lying playmaker, he still didnt defend and its another central role.And ended his career as a mainly defensive midfielder. Was never a winger and why bring it into the equation if him starting as a striker isn’t relevant?
I don't disagree with your view there. Probably worth highlighting though that Gerrard has 8 PL team of the year awards, nominated by all the other players in the league, compared to Lampard's 3 and Scholes' 0.
Nout to do with style. Gerrard prime came at a time when Xavi Iniesta etc were dominant and he was also rated alongside them including by the Europeans who named him in Fifa world 11s often. I don't want to reopen an old beef but Scholes has become a bit of a mythical player. Never was he regarded the best midfielder at United let alone player. He was often the one sacrificed or dropped by Sir Alex but people forget. Gerrard forced Scholes to retire from England. You HAD to play a Gerrard in every game. Scholes was often sacrificed for both club and countryI always found that odd, but I wonder whether that reflects on the style of English players at the time. If you asked Europeans to rate Scholes vs Lampard vs Gerrard I think the result would be overwhelmingly in favour of Scholes.
Which is?You really need to think about what you're saying here!
Scholes proved adept in 3 different central midfield roles. There isn't another midfielder mentioned that did. Although, Roy Keane carrying you as the legs in a dual CM is a caveat that can't really be ignored.
This is the answer.Roy Keane is the best PL midfielder in history so him and 2 others is the correct answer.
For me it'd be Vieira and Scholes.
I've never seen a player's reputation shoot up post-retirement like that. It's crazy.Nout to do with style. Gerrard prime came at a time when Xavi Iniesta etc were dominant and he was also rated alongside them including by the Europeans who named him in Fifa world 11s often. I don't want to reopen an old beef but Scholes has become a bit of a mythical player. Never was he regarded the best midfielder at United let alone player. He was often the one sacrificed or dropped by Sir Alex but people forget. Gerrard forced Scholes to retire from England. You HAD to play a Gerrard in every game. Scholes was often sacrificed for both club and country
It was partly because rival fans underrated him so much so it's a sort of backlash. Also his YouTube highlights are stunning as it combines his various great moments from 20 seasons, different roles, different skillsets into 1 montage.I've never seen a player's reputation shoot up post-retirement like that. It's crazy.
Ive argued this exact thing. No one from fans to peers to pundits put him in the top 10 players in the world at any time. He was never the go to name at united at any point when he was playing. Yet since he retired hes turned into a god that people put with zidane xavi etc. Its madness.It was partly because rival fans underrated him so much so it's a sort of backlash. Also his YouTube highlights are stunning as it combines his various great moments from 20 seasons, different roles, different skillsets into 1 montage.
But he's not . He is no where near the best midfielder in PL history . You could argue best goalscorer from midfield but no where near all round bestI know one thing: Lampard is the best midfielder in the history of the premier league.
Not only the best goal scorer from midfield, but also the 2nd most assists from midfield in PL history. Football fans tend to mistake style for substance a lot of the time; a player that does a pass that looks incredible on the hawkeye camera will be seen as better than one that contributed to the match in a more decisive and tangible fashion.But he's not . He is no where near the best midfielder in PL history . You could argue best goalscorer from midfield but no where near all round best
Then Pogba is easily better than Kante as Pogba has more goals and assists than Kante in PL?Not only the best goal scorer from midfield, but also the 2nd most assists from midfield in PL history. Football fans tend to mistake style for substance a lot of the time; a player that does a pass that looks incredible on the hawkeye camera will be seen as better than one that contributed to the match in a more decisive and tangible fashion.
Gerrard had a flashier style and generally was the best player in his team by a long way.Scholes being world class in each role is a contentious issue and had a whole thread on it. Scholes the world class CM was left out of the 1st team in some of our most vital games in 99 (champions league quarters away vs Inter, champs league semi away vs Juve) and was shuffled out of position for Veron. Gerrard was actually world class in his various roles and won countless individual accolades on both domestic and European stages, often making team of the season in both categories.
But wasn't everyone awful for England though?As a midfielder, which is what the thread was about. He started as an attacker, and converted to an attacking midfielder. He never developed a defensive side to the game and was awful playing from wide for England
What's the point of dividing a simple position into 35 different roles, and then naming one player for each?Robson.. but past his best when PL started unfortunately. Definitely by far the best all-around midfielder, can do everything so well.
Best midfielders:
Deep Playmaker the Regista - Scholes
Pure 6 - Makelele
Playmaker 10 - David Silva
Attacking - Yaya Toure
B2B - Keane and Viera, then Gerrard
Distanced Passer and Shooter - KDB
Goalscoring - Lampard
Holding - Xabi Alonso
Versatile - Fabregas
Disruptor - Kante
Coolest - Edgar Davids
Specialty roles - Fellaini (seriously he's the only one that can do what he can, can't think of another and it's effective)