The “Ole In” Brigade

[VP89]

This is utterly pathetic, and again a tired and simply annoying way of trying to divide the fanbase and make this place even more toxic than it has been the last few years. Doesn't it get dull?

Agree

 

[spiriticon]

If Ole gets sacked, whichever manager that comes in should not be offered more than a year's contract because it's fast becoming a joke.

If they do well, we renew for another year, if not we can sack them for a tippence at least.

 

[Valuedrug]

As a proud member of the “Ole in” brigade, I’m getting tired of seeing the same lazy criticisms of us/the manager gathering likes on the Caf and Twitter.

I wanted to address them all in one place, hopefully some fellow sensible supporters will be able to add their own arguments

1) “The love for Ole is all based on nostalgia and reverence for an ex-Red”

Not true. I’ve never seen a single argument from a pro-Ole supporter saying that he should remain in the job because he is an ex-player/club legend. This argument has been made up by the anti-Ole brigade, who have then proceeded to get angry at their own argument.

2) “Utd have made their worst start/worst away record/worst this/worse that”

Could. Not. Give. A. Monkeys. Anybody who expected any more from this season, with this squad and these players was always setting themselves up for a fall. Re-adjust your expectations based on reality.

3) “Ole is a failed Cardiff manager”

So what? People need to get over this idea that the success or failure of a club begins and ends with the manager.

4) “Jose Mourinho blah blah blah”

I liked Jose but with the benefit of hindsight, he had completely lost the plot in that 3rd season. Also, the man left over a year ago...let’s stop going on about it.

5) “We’re Man Utd, we should be doing X,Y....”

Means nothing. We’re currently an irrelevant club with mediocre players run by a clown and owned by shareholders looking to make a quick dollar. We’ve no divine right to win anything or sign any player because “we’re Man Utd”

6) “Ole is a poor Coach”

No evidence for this. People are obsessed with the idea of coaching but (most) of these players are 20+....you can’t make them play slicker, faster football just by “coaching”. Same way Pep can’t coach his philosophy to certain players, difference is City have been well-run for ten years so their squad needs minor tweaks every year not major surgery.

11 pages so far. You’re on a roll.

 

[passing-wind]

The post from the OP is pure nonsense. Much of the points about coaching point to a lack of footballing intelligence. Younger players are easier to coach than older ones because they have more of a capacity to be nurtured.

Under Solskjaer we have one of the worst managers in the league. We will finish in the bottom half of mid table.

 

[el3mel]

Part 1, Yes, we saw LVG, Mourniho, Moyes perform fast counter attacking..
Part 2, Do you think if Mourinho would still be here, we would have Greenwood get a game ? Lukaku, Matic and Sanchez would still be playing..

Fans didn't want to see counter attacking. They wanted to see offensive display and proper attacking football, and were convinced at this time the squad was good enough to provide that. Now it's acceptable for some reason.

 

[Gehrman]

Will it have changed your mind about anything, be it Ole's competence, or our progress, or anything really?

Ole being able to lead the young lads to a Europa win would probably change a few views I have, as well as give him a good trophy on his CV.

No, I honestly think 6th place for Man Utd is shit. An El doesn't cover it up. It was great acheivement for Hodgeson for Fulham, it's not for us.

 

[Random Task]

No, it's just there aren't any out there that would do a sufficiently good job to warrant sacking a manager and uprooting another year's worth of work in the process.

There's only Allegri and Poch and neither are particularly good or well suited to what we need.

After his work at Spurs, Poch has shown he is perfectly suitable for our needs. Low-cost recruitment, promoting youth and making improvements throughout the club is precisely the kind of management we could use right now.

 

[Sky1981]

Will it have changed your mind about anything, be it Ole's competence, or our progress, or anything really?

Ole being able to lead the young lads to a Europa win would probably change a few views I have, as well as give him a good trophy on his CV.

He has to actually you know... win it first

 

[Foxbatt]

It is not an Ole out Brigade in that sense. I would call it a platoon or even a section. So its a few people at least on CAF who are creating all these noise. Most want him to be either successful or gone if he is not successful as they seem to love the club more than the person or the cult. We had this with Moyes, Jose and now Ole. Knowing his luck we would beat Newcastle today by a good score and then again the merry go round would start again.

 

[He'sRaldo]

He has to actually you know... win it first

Yup, and if he doesn't I'll be disappointed tbh. But I'm remaining optimistic till then, since the potential is there for a pretty alright first season, regardless of how it might look right now.

If we were knocked out of everything, playing once a week in the league and still struggling, then yeah I wouldn't be happy at all.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

It makes sense when you think of continuity. Usually, without a manager to stop him, Woodward renews every deadwood's contract. If there was a manager who could outlast the deadwood and slowly replace them then we could potentially have more quality players.

However, sacking managers yearly for underperforming with said deadwood, and giving them chance after chance under new managers, would prevent us from getting rid; we've seen it happen with our two eyes, and complained about it.

So there is potentially an argument for keeping a stable manager until we find "the one", or until we sort ourselves out structurally so there is accountability outside of the manager.

Getting rid? Under Oles watch so he far he's given a 4 year contract to Jones, a 4 year contract to Pereira, a 3 year contract to Mata and I'm sure once Lingod scores his yearly goal he'll be offered a 4 year contract as well. Ole is doing a great job in getting rid of deadwood said no sane United supporter... Ever.

What? You're only willing to accept Klopp or Guardiola to succeed Ole? So we are doomed to be stuck with Ole? And that's the reason why you're against sacking Ole? Oh my, doomed indeed we are.

You just couldn't make it up, could you? 3 levels above lunacy.

But we've already tried that 'manager with awesome CV' approach with LVG and Mourinho. We're still in the same shit after 5 years. We have altered the club's approach to managers and it really hasn't worked.

Wouldn't the most sensible thing be actually hiring a manager that understands the changes that's been made in the game instead of hiring 3 dinosaurs and someone who doesn't have a clue what it's like to manage at the top level? A lot of people seem to think because 4 have failed/failing then we should stick with the failing one because it's too much of a risk to change again. There is absolutely no logic to this whatsoever.

One thing United hasn't tried is to appoint a young, progressive manager who actually understands modern tactics. Don't tell me there isn't one of those out there.

 

[90 + 5min]

After his work at Spurs, Poch has shown he is perfectly suitable for our needs. Low-cost recruitment, promoting youth and making improvements throughout the club is precisely the kind of management we could use right now.

Yes, lets go for a man that got sacked 2 times from 3 clubs inlcuding getting one into relegation zone. Who got zero trophies to show despite having great players. Isn't that wat you all want Ole out for? For not having results. Would you give Poch more time than Ole or would you say, one year then you are off if you don't win anything?

Get behind our manager and give him time.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Getting rid? Under Oles watch so he far he's given a 4 year contract to Jones, a 4 year contract to Pereira, a 3 year contract to Mata and I'm sure once Lingod scores his yearly goal he'll be offered a 4 year contract as well. Ole is doing a great job in getting rid of deadwood said no sane United supporter... Ever.

The difference being, if they disappoint Ole and he's still not sacked, then he can rectify and get rid. However, if he is sacked and a new man comes in, there's potential for endless "last chances" and contract renewals under Woodward's watch if that cycle continues.

Note that this doesn't apply solely to Ole, it's just an argument for more continuity.

 

[noodlehair]

You heard it here first folks, we must accept all decisions made by Woodward and the club.


It's not Maguire vs Smalling. It's Jones vs Smalling.

All you're arguing for is that you believe Ole is good at transfers, not coaching.


Nobody is saying we're guaranteed to fix everything by sacking Ole. What people are saying is that sacking Ole gives the club another chance to fix things. That's what all clubs do. If you know Ole is not proving enough to stay on the job, and is therefore more likely to not fix things, why would you not want to let someone else have a go at it?

We could apply our transfer strategy to it. If we're not guaranteed to upgrade on Lukaku, why on earth should we buy another player to replace him? The answer is simple, because you're increasing your chances at finding the solution by trying out different people to get the job done. This is the logic Ole used on Lukaku. This is the logic everyone uses for transfers, sacking/hiring managers, sacking/hiring dofs, etc...

If the entire argument that Ole is doing a good job is based on transfers, why not advocate for him to be DOF (which I disagree with too btw)? I've noticed none of the arguments involve his coaching.

If this season is a write off, why even give Matic a minute of game time? He's clearly not going to contribute past this season, so might as well let Garner get some experience. If this season is a write off, why even let Jones get playing time ahead of Tuanzebe whenever it has happened, however rare it was?

If you get rid of Ole you have to replace him With someone. At the moment the only name being mentioned is Pochettino, and, again, to remind You, Pochettino has done WORSE than ole with a better set of players at Tottenham, in the same time period as Ole has been manager here. He has literally been sacked for not being good enough at a club where the expectation and pressure is actually less than here.

What do you think is the most likely thing to happen if we made that change? I mean, without being delusional, what is realistic?

Making a change for the sake of making a change us pointless. Especially half way through a season and only a year after you sacked the last guy.

 

[Josep Dowling]

If you get rid of Ole you have to replace him With someone. At the moment the only name being mentioned is Pochettino, and, again, to remind You, Pochettino has done WORSE than ole with a better set of players at Tottenham, in the same time period as Ole has been manager here. He has literally been sacked for not being good enough at a club where the expectation and pressure is actually less than here.

What do you think is the most likely thing to happen if we made that change? I mean, without being delusional, what is realistic?

Making a change for the sake of making a change us pointless. Especially half way through a season and only a year after you sacked the last guy.

Such a stupid way to look at it when Spurs got to a Champions League final under him, in that exact same period you refer to as well.

Also prior to that he implemented a style to two Premier League teams. I would rather trust a manager who has prior success at the highest level. It’s stupid to suggest because it didn’t work with LVG and Mourinho that we suddenly don’t try a very good manager with prior success.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

The difference being, if they disappoint Ole and he's still not sacked, then he can rectify and get rid. However, if he is sacked and a new man comes in, there's potential for endless "last chances" and contract renewals under Woodward's watch if that cycle continues.

Note that this doesn't apply solely to Ole, it's just an argument for more continuity.

I'm not sure I understand your point. Not one of those mentioned deserved another contract. Now it's going to be impossible to get rid of any of them until their contracts expires. Who is going to pay any of them 100k per week where they're not exactly pressurised to perform week in week out? If Ole suddenly decides they're now not good enough he's stuck with them.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

But we've already tried that 'manager with awesome CV' approach with LVG and Mourinho. We're still in the same shit after 5 years. We have altered the club's approach to managers and it really hasn't worked.

Then surely we stop panic signing managers and actually target one?

Target a top proven manager who suits the club and follows the clubs ideals, if in the meantime we get in caretaker or Ole to prepare for this guy, great.

Our problem hasn’t been CV’s (except with Ole and Moyes) , it’s been panic signing managers with top CVs that don’t fit the club one little bit else signing someone based on nostalgia, then firing those managers for another one who has a completely different approach to pretty much everything.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

If you get rid of Ole you have to replace him With someone. At the moment the only name being mentioned is Pochettino, and, again, to remind You, Pochettino has done WORSE than ole with a better set of players at Tottenham, in the same time period as Ole has been manager here. He has literally been sacked for not being good enough at a club where the expectation and pressure is actually less than here.

What do you think is the most likely thing to happen if we made that change? I mean, without being delusional, what is realistic?

Making a change for the sake of making a change us pointless. Especially half way through a season and only a year after you sacked the last guy.

You do understand Poch was sacked because of all the unrest in the dressing room, no? It's nothing to do with him not being good enough. Where do you think Poch is going to end up? The Norwegian league? I don't think so. Where do you think Ole is going to end up when he's eventually sacked? The Norwegian league? That's if he is very lucky. Is the rest of the footballing world missing something that a few can't see on the caf?

 

[Leftback99]

This is utterly pathetic, and again a tired and simply annoying way of trying to divide the fanbase and make this place even more toxic than it has been the last few years. Doesn't it get dull?

You either want him sacked or you're prepared to give him time. It's not about dividing anything, it's just an opinion, I wouldn't get so worked up about it being 'toxic'. No one is happy when we lose games.

 

[Random Task]

Yes, lets go for a man that got sacked 2 times from 3 clubs inlcuding getting one into relegation zone. Who got zero trophies to show despite having great players. Isn't that wat you all want Ole out for? For not having results. Would you give Poch more time than Ole or would you say, one year then you are off if you don't win anything?

Get behind our manager and give him time.

The failed appointments of Jose & LVG, two highly distinguished managers who were successful at a variety of football throughout Europe before their arrival at United, dispels the notion that being successful at your previous club(s) guarantees success at your next club.

I feel for Ole, in truth. Being asked to take charge of an underperforming, overpaid squad of primadonnas, and being expected to lead them to glory, is the equivalent of climbing K2 with both hands tied behind your back. But that's the way it is. I wanted Ole to be successful as much as the next person, but let's be real, it isn't going happen. I've been behind him since day one, it wasn't until the Watford debacle that I finally lost hope.

The players aren't responding to his methods and don't like likely to start anytime soon. They see him more as a mate, a shoulder to cry on if you will, rather than the leader of men they sorely need. I think they take advantage of his good nature, to be honest with you.

 

[JPRouve]

The failed appointments of Jose & LVG, two highly distinguished managers who were successful at a variety of football throughout Europe before their arrival at United, dispels the notion that being successful at your previous club(s) guarantees success at your next club.

I feel for Ole, in truth. Being asked to take charge of an underperforming, overpaid squad of primadonnas, and being expected to lead them to glory, is the equivalent of climbing K2 with both hands tied behind your back. But that's the way it is. I wanted Ole to be successful as much as the next person, but let's be real, it isn't going happen. I've been behind him since day one, it wasn't until the Watford debacle that I finally lost hope.

The players aren't, and don't like likely to anytime soon, responding to his methods. They see him more as a mate, a shoulder to cry on if you will, rather than the leader of men they sorely need. I think they take advantage of his good nature, to be honest with you.

I have an issue with that part because it supposes that he actually has a method that works or that he has the managing skills to convey his ideas and methods. Too often, it seems that people don't consider that it's part of managers skills to be a leader and having the ability to convince anyone that you can lead them somewhere. Players or employees aren't supposed to be mindless sheeps.

 

[Gehrman]

Yes, lets go for a man that got sacked 2 times from 3 clubs inlcuding getting one into relegation zone. Who got zero trophies to show despite having great players. Isn't that wat you all want Ole out for? For not having results. Would you give Poch more time than Ole or would you say, one year then you are off if you don't win anything?

Get behind our manager and give him time.

If you are looking for trophies let's go for Allegri then.

 

[90 + 5min]

The failed appointments of Jose & LVG, two highly distinguished managers who were successful at a variety of football throughout Europe before their arrival at United, dispels the notion that being successful at your previous club(s) guarantees success at your next club.

I feel for Ole, in truth. Being asked to take charge of an underperforming, overpaid squad of primadonnas, and being expected to lead them to glory, is the equivalent of climbing K2 with both hands tied behind your back. But that's the way it is. I wanted Ole to be successful as much as the next person, but let's be real, it isn't going happen. I've been behind him since day one, it wasn't until the Watford debacle that I finally lost hope.

The players aren't, and don't like likely to anytime soon, responding to his methods. They see him more as a mate, a shoulder to cry on if you will, rather than the leader of men they sorely need. I think they take advantage of his good nature, to be honest with you.

You know that results would go up and down before this year, looking at our squad. I don't think that a game against Watford should turn you around and wanting Ole out. We will have plenty of those results and we will also have plenty of good/great results.

You said and I qoute you "underperforming, overpaid squad of primadonnas, and being expected to lead them to glory, is the equivalent of climbing K2 with both hands tied behind your back". We had even Mourinho and vanGaal (great managers) and still we suffered. What we should learn from last 5 years is that we should get a manager and stand by him. Give him time. Even in "bad" time, I hope you see progress. Not just results but squad, team, philosphy. But nothing can be done overnight. Time is required after years of changes wich left us broken.

 

[Random Task]

I have an issue with that part because it supposes that he actually has a method that works or that he has the managing skills to convey his ideas and methods. Too often, it seems that people don't consider that it's part of managers skills to be a leader and having the ability to convince anyone that you can lead them somewhere. Players or employees aren't supposed to be mindless sheeps.

I'd like to think Ole had an idea in mind on how best to lead this squad, rather than just 'winging it', but I honestly don't know if he did.

Where do you stand on Ole right now?

 

[tenpoless]

If you get rid of Ole you have to replace him With someone. At the moment the only name being mentioned is Pochettino, and, again, to remind You, Pochettino has done WORSE than ole with a better set of players at Tottenham, in the same time period as Ole has been manager here. He has literally been sacked for not being good enough at a club where the expectation and pressure is actually less than here.

Yeah right let's ignore the rest of his achievement at Tottenham just because of one season. Let's ignore the rest of Ole's career as a manager as well. Ole has literally been sacked for not being good enough at Cardiff.

Bring everything into the discussion. Don't be picky.

 

[Pace Abuser]

Needs a whole season after the pre season and having had half a season to assess the squad

 

[Florida Man]

There are a lot of posts already but I just want to say that we need to stop comparing Ole and Klopp based on one parameter. They aren’t in the same category of managers and there is so much more context than Klopp’s first year at Liverpool.

 

[JPRouve]

I'd like to think Ole had an idea in mind on how best to lead this squad, rather than just 'winging it', but I honestly don't know if he did.

Where do you stand on Ole right now?

But even if he does have an idea, there is no guarantee that he has the skills to achieve it and that's the most important part of coaching/managing. Having ideas is one thing, realizing them is an other.

I'm conflicted regarding Ole, I didn't know him before United, I heard what he did several years ago in Norway and then saw what he did with Cardiff but I wouldn't say that I know him as a manager. And while I think that he has done a poor job during the last year, I don't know what to do with him, he doesn't seem to be a long term solution and I don't think that he is a short term problem. I wouldn't mind giving him until summer, if the club had a structure that goes beyond the manager but when the manager is the structure is it a good idea to not get someone like Pochettino now, if he was the chosen one*.

*If we have no one currently available in mind then I'm fine with Ole.

 

[Florida Man]

If Ole gets sacked, whichever manager that comes in should not be offered more than a year's contract because it's fast becoming a joke.

If they do well, we renew for another year, if not we can sack them for a tippence at least.

I don’t disagree with that but I don’t see any manager worth their weight to accept such a contract. Two years is probably the best compromise for both parties.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

What we should learn from last 5 years is that we should get a manager and stand by him. Give him time. Even in "bad" time, I hope you see progress. Not just results but squad, team, philosphy. But nothing can be done overnight. Time is required after years of changes wich left us broken.

No @90 + 5min, what we should learn from the past 5 years is due diligence.

• A top CV is no good if the manager is completely ill-fitted to the club.
• Swapping from one manager to another with a completely different idea on how to play and run a football club is idiocy and costly.
• A punt on an old player or a Scotsman provides even worse results than a good CV.

So with that in mind I’d hope the people who run the club would target a top proven manager that fits the direction the entire club wants to go in, be patient in getting him, and in the meantime, make sure all the preparations are made to make the transition as easy as possible.

What we haven’t learnt is that we should stand by an unproven manager who after 12 months looks completely unfit for the position.

 

[Random Task]

No @90 + 5min, what we should learn from the past 5 years is due diligence.

• A top CV is no good if the manager is completely ill-fitted to the club.
• Swapping from one manager to another with a completely different idea on how to play and run a football club is idiocy and costly.
• A punt on an old player or a Scotsman provides even worse results than a good CV.

So with that in mind I’d hope the people who run the club would target a top proven manager that fits the direction the entire club wants to go in, be patient in getting him, and in the meantime, make sure all the preparations are made to make the transition as easy as possible.

What we haven’t learnt is that we should stand by an unproven manager who after 12 months looks completely unfit for the position.

I honestly cannot see beyond Poch for such a role. No one else stands out, that's for sure. Then again, my knowledge of football outside the PL is limited at best.

In any case, whoever takes over will find themselves in a no-lose situation. If they fail to have the required impact, they can simply say: "Ole failed to get anything from this squad and so did his predecessors. You can only achieve so much working with shite"

If they are successful, they will be seen as miracle workers.

 

[hobbers]

I honestly cannot see beyond Poch for such a role. No one else stands out, that's for sure. Then again, my knowledge of football outside the PL is limited at best.

Nagelsmann and Rose are a similar profile to Poch.

They'd be my top 3. If any are available in the summer it would be suicidal to not upgrade to any of the three.

 

[hobbers]

Getting rolled by Newcastle at Old Trafford lads.

Still going to keep wumming? Or are people going to start putting the club before their nostalgic fantasies?

 

[Machine Elements]

Anyone who really thinks this guy is the right man to lead Man United forward is deluded.

 

[pacifictheme]

Getting rolled by Newcastle at Old Trafford lads.

Still going to keep wumming? Or are people going to start putting the club before their nostalgic fantasies?

It is NOT about nostalgia.

I mean sure results are awful.
And sure we're playing worse than we were before ole joined.
And yes hes got less points than jose when jose was trying to get sacked.
And yes we spent more money than just about every other club in the summer.
And yes this season has been written off.

But this is NOT about nostalgia.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Its getting harder and harder to keep in the Ole in brigade isnt it?

 

[Ish]

Great logic. Obviously you have never been part of a team or culture where you support each other and build to decrease weaknesses and build strength.

On great teams, you have tolerance and patience. You believe in the process. You support each other. You don’t just keep firing people in order to find the holy grail. Awful attitude, only tearing things apart. The club doesn’t need gloryhunters like that.

Dude, I don’t know you. And you don’t know me. So stop with the assumptions. Go look at my post history and see if I come across as a glory hunter or not. Or don’t. It’s really up to you.

And what’s this great logic, or lack thereof youre referring to? One where you’re not allowed to criticize or debate/state something you’re not satisfied with?

Go find another post or poster to go off on a tangent off, because if you want blind loyalty, you’re not going to get it from me, as much as I/we all love Ole. As I stated above to @Lentwood, I respect all the guys supporting Ole & the process. I just see things a bit differently, but yet I’ll gladly be proven wrong, because it would mean that Ole and United are successful.

 

[Ish]

Yeah agree nothing at all wrong with not being convinced by Ole as a tactician/coach/manager but the insults are totally unnecessary, ex player or not.

Agreed bud.

 

[DLE]

Dude, I don’t know you. And you don’t know me. So stop with the assumptions. Go look at my post history and see if I come across as a glory hunter or not. Or don’t. It’s really up to you.

And what’s this great logic, or lack thereof youre referring to? One where you’re not allowed to criticize or debate/state something you’re not satisfied with?

Go find another post or poster to go off on a tangent off, because if you want blind loyalty, you’re not going to get it from me, as much as I/we all love Ole. As I stated above to @Lentwood, I respect all the guys supporting Ole & the process. I just see things a bit differently, but yet I’ll gladly be proven wrong, because it would mean that Ole and United are successful.

Your logic that we can shut down the Caf because you are not allowed to criticise.

Learn to use constructive criticism around Manchester United. Being impatient and wanting Ole to leave is just tearing down and polarizing.

 

[sammsky1]

OleIN loud and proud