Let's not buy Raiola players again - ever

[midnightmare]

They're not that well organized. They just pick the right manager.

We werent the best club back in 86, we just happened to pick the best manager out there, the one that destined for greatness.

Barcelona. Madrid. Bayern is the antithesis of us. They dont need a great manager, they have a great system.

A good system can never beat a good general, but a good system can last you many stupid general.

Second half is all wrong. All clubs need a great manager to win. Look at Real Madrid with and without Zidane. Same squad, same structure and insanely different results. Ask any person following La Liga and they’ll tell you that Valverde is the reason why that squad is performing so poorly (they really are). Bayern isn’t really running away with the league is it?

Regardless of structure, every club needs a competent (minimum) manager to be successful. And good managers can - if given basic funding - be successful with or without Dofs and the like.

 

[ravi2]

You mean teams that give him the most money. Raiola is everything that is wrong with football now. United made a huge mistake in ever dealing with him and the players he represents. United should never do business with him again.

From my perspective, Ed Woodward is everything that is wrong with football now.
Feel free to continue to call for a boycott of Raiola and any other agents that manage to piss you off, interesting to see how that would turn out.

 

[Milo2035]

From my perspective, Ed Woodward is everything that is wrong with football now.
Feel free to continue to call for a boycott of Raiola and any other agents that manage to piss you off, interesting to see how that would turn out.

People are deluded. Ed turned a football club into a commercial club and he still sits at the top. Meanwhile Raiola represents top players' interests and he is considered what wrong with football.
At a time when no top players wanted to join us, Raiola brought us Pogba and Zlatan. If anything we should be grateful, really.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

Signing players from these 'super agents' ends with disappointment more often than not. Accepting to deal with them, as the Haaland saga has shown, does not guarantee getting the player, only the right to enter a bidding war which benefit the agent and player. I don't see why we should allow this.

Yes, they have some of the most talented players, but there's plenty of fish in the sea, and it's possible to avoid this circus and still sign quality players. Maybe not easy but probably worth it.

 

[POF]

Bang on. If Raiola is going to insist on making an enemy out of our club then we should stop letting him use us for his own gain.

It's also a really good opportunity to say "don't believe everything he says" when it can't be construed as sour grapes after another player turns Utd down.

 

[VP]

People are deluded. Ed turned a football club into a commercial club and he still sits at the top. Meanwhile Raiola represents top players' interests and he is considered what wrong with football.
At a time when no top players wanted to join us, Raiola brought us Pogba and Zlatan. If anything we should be grateful, really.

Both are them parasites but Raiola is a unique breed. A fat chancer who makes millions for fixing meetings.

 

[Thiagoal]

Unpopular opinion: If we are actually committed to taking 2 to 4 years to start contending we would be unreasonable to tell Pogba to stay and wait. Footballers primes are short lived. His timeline and ours clearly don't match if we don't expect to contend for major trophies anytime soon. If the right price comes he should go

As for Raiola I cant believe we wanted to deal with the prick again. Once Pogba leaves that should be curtains on having him set foot in any United building

it makes feel a little nauseous when I see comments like these ( no disrespect) Your comment implies that Pogba has been out performing all of his team mates and is a stand out beacon in the team that deserves better!

The harsh truth (that a lot of Pogba fanboys will hate me for saying) is that Pogba’s half arsed performances over the past three years have contributed greatly to how mediocre we’ve been! If he were to step up and perform at his full level then we’d be much more successful than we have been! We’d also be inundated with offers in excess of 120 million as every global giant would be after him! The truth is, for the fee we’d demand, there are no takers

 

[Sky1981]

Both are them parasites but Raiola is a unique breed. A fat chancer who makes millions for fixing meetings.

You do know that raiola actually spends alot of time money and effort long before x player even kick their first amateur football?

They paid the best scout, the paid the best salary when they're young and unknown, fly them to europe, give them the best football education they can get, much more than united ever did for halaand.

Would we even entertain him, educate him, give him the allowance and all that when he was 10 and unknown?

Stop acting like clubs are some charities. Big clubs are sharks that preys and only kind to the best of the lot. If you're not so good yet chances are clubs would snub their nose on you.

 

[JPRouve]

I can't know what happened behind the scenes but it was reported that Barca deal fell through because they would not offer as much as Juve. When you are 19 years old you should make your decisions based on football, not - couple extra millions. Couple extra millions only makes sense to your manager, not to you, not at that age.

You are obviously free to think that Juve was a better deal or just as good. I think it wasn't because:

• I think Barca is a bigger club
• La Liga is much stronger league
• Barca had a need for starting CB and De Ligt could have taken it. At Juve there was no such obvious opening and indeed he is struggling to get playing time.

Have De Ligt and Haaland made best choices? Maybe. I am just pointing out that according to reports they made deals that maximized Raiola'a profits, which is fishy... That is why question arises as for whose "best interest" does Raiola fight for. I think it is a fair question, is all

You realize that he isn't struggling to get game time, he is one of the main starters. And reports are often nonsensical particularly around Barcelona and Madrid when they miss on a player, none of the thing that you mentioned make sense Barcelona pay better, they spend more money, they have a bigger tendency to not give time to young players and pursue new shiny players but somehow you try to argue the opposite of their reality. You are talking about a club that wasn't bothered to give time to Tiago Alcantara, Alcacer, André Gomes, who is treating Arthur in the weirdest way and reportedly is trying to ditch Todibo after one season and by the way the latter is what I would have used to convince De Ligt to stay away from Barcelona, they did everything to unsettle a teenager that was guaranteed to play at Toulouse and minutes after signing him were chasing De Ligt. Barcelona have been one of the worst club for young players in the last decade.

 

[JPRouve]

People are deluded. Ed turned a football club into a commercial club and he still sits at the top. Meanwhile Raiola represents top players' interests and he is considered what wrong with football.
At a time when no top players wanted to join us, Raiola brought us Pogba and Zlatan. If anything we should be grateful, really.

That never happened though. United have been a "commercial club" for the entirety of SAF's tenure, that's how United managed to be one of the richest clubs while not being one of the best in the late 80s, early 90s and then we went to an other gear with the creation of the PL. If you want to blame someone blame Martin Edwards, personally I wouldn't.

 

[ROFLUTION]

You do know that raiola actually spends alot of time money and effort long before x player even kick their first amateur football?

They paid the best scout, the paid the best salary when they're young and unknown, fly them to europe, give them the best football education they can get, much more than united ever did for halaand.

Would we even entertain him, educate him, give him the allowance and all that when he was 10 and unknown?

Stop acting like clubs are some charities. Big clubs are sharks that preys and only kind to the best of the lot. If you're not so good yet chances are clubs would snub their nose on you.

Okay, so he breeds and takes good care of his investments, does that make him more of a saint? The ultimate goal is still to make insane money for himself, therefore he seeks to actively move players on. What was his cut for the Pogba deal again? 25-30 mil? That's scouts paid for the next 100 years

Pogba In the first place would probably be better off had he stayed in Juve. Hell, probably even if he'd stayed in Manchester under Fergie in the first place with no Raiola to guide him.

 

[Sandikan]

United need to create an alliance with the big clubs and agree not to use him.

Players will soon stop signing up with him with no prospect of joining the top clubs

 

[kdmaka]

Th

United need to create an alliance with the big clubs and agree not to use him.

Players will soon stop signing up with him with no prospect of joining the top clubs

This will just give clubs too much power which is not ideal as well , should be a balanced system like a cap on agent fees or some thing

 

[JPRouve]

Okay, so he breeds and takes good care of his investments, does that make him more of a saint? The ultimate goal is still to make insane money for himself, therefore he seeks to actively move players on. What was his cut for the Pogba deal again? 25-30 mil? That's scouts paid for the next 100 years

Pogba In the first place would probably be better off had he stayed in Juve. Hell, probably even if he'd stayed in Manchester under Fergie in the first place with no Raiola to guide him.

He is neither a saint nor the devil and his players don't move more than others. This Raiola thing is just weird, there is nothing special about his players careers.

 

[tenpoless]

I feel like this is going to bit him back in the arse at some point, if the quotes are true. Never a smart move to burn bridges between you and the top top paying customers. Add to that is the fact that He's only an agent, He's relying on others.

 

[Judge Red]

Far from a Raiola fan but the horrible thing is, as an agent he’s right on this one regardless of any ulterior motives. We have ruined good and great players over the last six years and Pogba’s career is going nowhere with us.

As long as Woodward is here, there’s no point in dealing with Raiola. Even the scumbag agent has decided there’s more to life than shafting a clown of all his money.

 

[JPRouve]

I feel like this is going to bit him back in the arse at some point, if the quotes are true. Never a smart move to burn bridges between you and the top top paying customers. Add to that is the fact that He's only an agent, He's relying on others.

It won't bit him at all and I don't think that bridges have been burnt. It's also not different to what he said to Burt which has somehow been received differently, he said in the context of meaning trophies, that today he wouldn't bring a top player to United because they don't have the foundations for success.

 

[Trophy Room]

Raiola is right. We've been shambolic in recent seasons. We've gone back to our roots with Ole but only time will tell if this experiment bears fruit. We have to accept that we'll miss out on players in this period. Its a vicious cycle unfortunately.

 

[midnightmare]

You do know that raiola actually spends alot of time money and effort long before x player even kick their first amateur football?

They paid the best scout, the paid the best salary when they're young and unknown, fly them to europe, give them the best football education they can get, much more than united ever did for halaand.

Would we even entertain him, educate him, give him the allowance and all that when he was 10 and unknown?

Stop acting like clubs are some charities. Big clubs are sharks that preys and only kind to the best of the lot. If you're not so good yet chances are clubs would snub their nose on you.

Wait, what? Raiola did that? For Haaland? Or de Ligt? Or even Pogba? In the first two cases, he wasn't even their agent FFS. Brought in as "an advisor" specifically after the players (with their families) decided they wanted a move and wanted the best deal possible when moving.

In Haaland's case specially, you could argue that Ole did far more for the player than Raiola ever did or will do.

 

[tenpoless]

It won't bit him at all and I don't think that bridges have been burnt. It's also not different to what he said to Burt which has somehow been received differently, he said in the context of meaning trophies, that today he wouldn't bring a top player to United because they don't have the foundations for success.

That's not what He said though, if the quotes are real. He said He wouldn't bring even Maradona and Pele because the club would ruin them. It's an insult, We all knew that He and Pogba are probably disappointed with how things are going, but ruining him is stretching it. Dan James isn't Pogba and is an example of our club still capable of developing players, especially those who want to work hard than being a bit of a Primadonna.

We don't have enough resources to be considered 'successful', everyone knows that. But to ruin top talents? arguable. Dortmund doesn't seem like a team who has a lot of foundations for success either, let's be honest They're only for players development. So Raiola must have talked about Haaland development if He joins United than trophies or success.

 

[JPRouve]

That's not what He said though, if the quotes are real. He said He wouldn't bring even Maradona and Pele because the club would ruin them. It's an insult, We all knew that He and Pogba are probably disappointed with how things are going, but ruining him is stretching it. Dan James isn't Pogba and is an example of our club still capable of developing players, especially those who want to work hard than being a bit of a Primadonna.

We don't have enough resources to be considered 'successful', everyone knows that. But to ruin top talents? arguable. Dortmund doesn't seem like a team who has a lot of foundations for success either, let's be honest They're only for players development. So Raiola must have talked about Haaland development if He joins United than trophies or success.

That's what he said, I actually read the article. The Maradona and Pele parts are a cheap shot yes, but the point was about winning trophies which is why he concluded that Juventus, in 2012, was an example of the perfect structure. He made that point in Jason Burt's article too, which was titled Paul Pogba wants to stay at Manchester United - but he needs more support, says agent Mino Raiola. It's a simple continuation of it in a different paper.
The point that he is making is that Pogba wants to win trophies and needs support. In Burt's article he clearly stated that the owners and Woodward didn't seem to put a premium on performances, that United were all over the place since SAF left and that they needed a DOF to create a clear direction.

This point doesn't apply to Haaland, funnily enough he had dig at Italy regarding Haaland, they asked him why he didn't chose the Serie A and he basically said that Haaland isn't a defender and he isn't established enough to make that jump, that Italy struggles to develop their own talents let alone someone else's.

 

[Gehrman]

I honestly dont see much wrong with players wanting to do what's best for their careers. You can't expect all great players in the world to be United fans.

 

[Sky1981]

Okay, so he breeds and takes good care of his investments, does that make him more of a saint? The ultimate goal is still to make insane money for himself, therefore he seeks to actively move players on. What was his cut for the Pogba deal again? 25-30 mil? That's scouts paid for the next 100 years

Pogba In the first place would probably be better off had he stayed in Juve. Hell, probably even if he'd stayed in Manchester under Fergie in the first place with no Raiola to guide him.

Players aim are money. Clubs aim are money.

If halaan becomes shit at 25, or injured bad, do you think united would still renew his contract out compassion? Do you think we'd offer players free wages if they're not good kicking balls? What sort of loyalty do we offer to our player? The day they become deadwood they're harrassed and screamed to be sold, some even called names.

You do know that even without moving clubs, pogba and raiola gets a feee everytime they renew their contract either way.

 

[Sky1981]

Wait, what? Raiola did that? For Haaland? Or de Ligt? Or even Pogba? In the first two cases, he wasn't even their agent FFS. Brought in as "an advisor" specifically after the players (with their families) decided they wanted a move and wanted the best deal possible when moving.

In Haaland's case specially, you could argue that Ole did far more for the player than Raiola ever did or will do.

What did united do for de ligt and halaand?

 

[midnightmare]

What did united do for de ligt and halaand?

That's irrelevant. You made a definitive statement that "raiola actually spends alot of time money and effort long before x player even kick their first amateur football".
I pointed out that this was blatantly incorrect.

Also, I didn't say United had (though that is true in Pogba's case) done anything for either.
I said Ole has done more for Haaland than Raiola has.

 

[JPRouve]

That's irrelevant. You made a definitive statement that "raiola actually spends alot of time money and effort long before x player even kick their first amateur football".
I pointed out that this was blatantly incorrect.

Also, I didn't say United had (though that is true in Pogba's case) done anything for either.
I said Ole has done more for Haaland than Raiola has.

While I don't exactly agree with @Sky1981, it is known that Raiola spends a lot of time with his clients. That's why the likes of Verratti and Matuidi left their previous agents, Matuidi explained that Raiola was always with Maxwell friendship type of relationship with Ibrahimovic and Maxwell, which was a big contrast with his own agent. The same thing was noticed at Nice with Balotelli, Balotelli needs a babysitter and Raiola is always checking up on him. Maxwell explained that when he wasn't playing with Barcelona he was a bit depressed and Raiola would spend a lot of time with him just to distract him.

As for Haaland, if I'm not mistaken he is mainly represented by his father, Raiola is just their to "support" them, he doesn't seem to have had a particular role up until now.

 

[clarkydaz]

This really should be a line in the sand between agent and club. As true as they may be, they are very damaging public comments after the obscene money he has taken from the club.

I don't think Liverpool or City have any of his players, and believe Wenger wanted nothing to do with him either

 

[golden_blunder]

Just hire Zorc as DoF. Put the structure in place and these silly comments about United being a mess will go away. Get your finger out Ed!

 

[JPRouve]

This really should be a line in the sand between agent and club. As true as they may be, they are very damaging public comments after the obscene money he has taken from the club.

I don't think Liverpool or City have any of his players, and believe Wenger wanted nothing to do with him either

As I said earlier, he doesn't have a lot of players and most of them aren't high profile players or not for sale.

 

[T00lsh3d]

While I don't exactly agree with @Sky1981, it is known that Raiola spends a lot of time with his clients. That's why the likes of Verratti and Matuidi left their previous agents, Matuidi explained that Raiola was always with Maxwell friendship type of relationship with Ibrahimovic and Maxwell, which was a big contrast with his own agent. The same thing was noticed at Nice with Balotelli, Balotelli needs a babysitter and Raiola is always checking up on him. Maxwell explained that when he wasn't playing with Barcelona he was a bit depressed and Raiola would spend a lot of time with him just to distract him.

As for Haaland, if I'm not mistaken he is mainly represented by his father, Raiola is just their to "support" them, he doesn't seem to have had a particular role up until now.

There’s no doubt his clients like him.
I wonder what they think of his press uttering though? Surely there’s a point where they think, “yeah this guys got my best interests at heart, but I wish he’d stop talking so much shit about my employer”

 

[VP]

You do know that raiola actually spends alot of time money and effort long before x player even kick their first amateur football?

They paid the best scout, the paid the best salary when they're young and unknown, fly them to europe, give them the best football education they can get, much more than united ever did for halaand.

Would we even entertain him, educate him, give him the allowance and all that when he was 10 and unknown?

Stop acting like clubs are some charities. Big clubs are sharks that preys and only kind to the best of the lot. If you're not so good yet chances are clubs would snub their nose on you.

What are you on about? Are you suggesting Raiola scouts his players, coaches them and then educates them?

 

[ROFLUTION]

Players aim are money. Clubs aim are money.

That's not really the main aim when you start kicking the ball in the schoolyard and gardens with ye old man is it? "Yayyy, I want to play football so I can simply be rich"

The aim of (no foreign-owned) clubs neither - Barcelona could probably cut their wages quite a bit and have money, but the aim and goal for most is also just success on the pitch

 

[JPRouve]

There’s no doubt his clients like him.
I wonder what they think of his press uttering though? Surely there’s a point where they think, “yeah this guys got my best interests at heart, but I wish he’d stop talking so much shit about my employer”

He doesn't talk about employers when there is nothing to say, that's the part that people seem to miss. When his clients are playing, well paid and win trophies you don't hear him as you don't hear most agents. Juventus, Napoli and PSG for example have had no issues with him because there is nothing to say.

 

[midnightmare]

While I don't exactly agree with @Sky1981, it is known that Raiola spends a lot of time with his clients. That's why the likes of Verratti and Matuidi left their previous agents, Matuidi explained that Raiola was always with Maxwell friendship type of relationship with Ibrahimovic and Maxwell, which was a big contrast with his own agent. The same thing was noticed at Nice with Balotelli, Balotelli needs a babysitter and Raiola is always checking up on him. Maxwell explained that when he wasn't playing with Barcelona he was a bit depressed and Raiola would spend a lot of time with him just to distract him.

As for Haaland, if I'm not mistaken he is mainly represented by his father, Raiola is just their to "support" them, he doesn't seem to have had a particular role up until now.

Yes mate - that part in bold is the point I was making. I am not commenting on Haaland or Raiola or anything. Merely pointing out that in this case it would be wrong to say that Raiola has done anything for the player prior to even just this deal - leave alone before kicking the first football as an amateur.

 

[T00lsh3d]

He doesn't talk about employers when there is nothing to say, that's the part that people seem to miss. When his clients are playing, well paid and win trophies you don't hear him as you don't hear most agents. Juventus, Napoli and PSG for example have had no issues with him because there is nothing to say.

Pogba is playing at United (when fit) and is certainly well paid. So the only other issue is, are united good enough for Pogba/Pogba’s ambitions? Does that qualify as ‘something to say’? Does that necessitate him talking about the employer publicly in a disparaging manner? I don’t believe so

 

[Sky1981]

What are you on about? Are you suggesting Raiola scouts his players, coaches them and then educates them?

Yes. Most agents does. There's a documentary somewhere. They actually enables kids from parts of the world to live their dream (albeit for monetary interest if they made it). Many young players (10s) from poor country are already taken care of by agents, nurtured and provided connection to the best footballing school for a tit for tat. They paid for their living cost, ticket cost, marketing etc.

 

[Sky1981]

That's not really the main aim when you start kicking the ball in the schoolyard and gardens with ye old man is it? "Yayyy, I want to play football so I can simply be rich"

The aim of (no foreign-owned) clubs neither - Barcelona could probably cut their wages quite a bit and have money, but the aim and goal for most is also just success on the pitch

You're naive if you think most players dont think about money.

Halaand is actually a great example. He choose playing time and probably any other thing besides money.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

As I said earlier, he doesn't have a lot of players and most of them aren't high profile players or not for sale.

Or maybe him saying Wenger had no balls in the transfer market, Klopp was a piece of shit and Pep was a cowardly dog could be more of a reason.

 

[do.ob]

Pogba is playing at United (when fit) and is certainly well paid. So the only other issue is, are united good enough for Pogba/Pogba’s ambitions? Does that qualify as ‘something to say’? Does that necessitate him talking about the employer publicly in a disparaging manner? I don’t believe so

If we look at this from a neutral or United point of view then there is no excuse for these comments.

That being said I would be surprised if they didn't have a purpose for Pogba in mind. Either to put a bit of pressure on the club to improve the team around him or to create some drama, so he can leave in the summer.

Just hire Zorc as DoF. Put the structure in place and these silly comments about United being a mess will go away. Get your finger out Ed!

Not to derail this thread too much, but I don't see Zorc leaving Dortmund, he's been with the club for over 40 years now.

Ralf Rangnick, the engineer of Hoffenheim and Leipzig, appears very interested in a new challenge however. And given that he already built two clubs from scratch and doesn't seem to have a problem with working for private owners I'm a bit surprised that United don't appear to be interested in him. He even spent a year studying in England when he was younger.

 

[Odin]

Let's go after the players we want, pay for actual services, don't let any agent bully us, don't bully our own players, practice what we preach and be vocal about our expectations to people we are involved with. Easier said than done, all that! I am pretty sure our club core values and our PR strategy is pretty well thought through, regardless of what each fan may think of it individually. If Raiola plays a dirty game, we should let him know. If he unrightfully accuses us of playing dirty we should let everybody know. If we play dirty ourselves we should keep our mouth shut or change tactics.