Let's not buy Raiola players again - ever

ThomasEmil

Invisible Herrera Watcher
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
4,985
Location
Denmark
With Pogba openly wanting out, and with the transfer saga og De Ligt, not to mention how often Zlatan changed club during his career, I think there's a clear pattern:

Raiola players are acting like spoiled brats, thinking money > loyalty and affiliation.

Call me sentimental, because the days of Totti's and Giggs' are over for far most of the players. Mainly due to agents. It's fine - I don't expect players to be one-club wonders. But this club-jumping, sponsorship announcements on star players and shit has grown me tired.

We're in the race for De Ligt. Honestly - If Raiola is gonna push for him to move on in 3 years, then I say let PSG have him.
I don't want more bigger-than-club players. I think this specific agent is more toxic for the players he represent, than most may realize.
 

Classical Mechanic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
29,042
Location
xG Zombie Nation
Pep agrees with this.

Regarding De Ligt: I think we should be in for him. The way we get them to stay is to become a top club again. It depends on the character of the player regarding becoming disruptive. Some will do their job effectively and quietly before leaving, like Salah appears to be doing at Liverpool.

Lukaku actually sacked Raiola a while back so he can't be blamed for this. Really disappointed in Lukaku for throwing in the towel so easily. Will be glad to see him leave. He just hasn't been committed.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
44,266
Location
France
Let's not buy Mendes players too since the same things happen with his clients and we should extend it to every player currently on the move and has an agent.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
25,164
Verratti - at PSG for many years after signing from Serie B team
Donnarumma - At Milan for last 3-4 years and didn't move to any club
Manolas - At Roma from 2014 after siging from Greek league
Moise Kean - At Juventus, their academy player
Mkhitaryan - Moved from Dortmund to ManUtd and then was forced out from ManUtd
Matuidi - Moved from PSG to Juventus when he wasn't needed
Balotelli - He was offloaded from every club except Inter
Kluivert - Signed for Roma from Dutch league
Zlatan - Only club where he forced his move was from Inter. Juve were relegated so he had to move. He was sold by Milan for financial reasons.
Maxwell - Stayed at various clubs for many years

It's not Raiola, it's the players who wants to leave.
 

ayushreddevil9

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
5,371
The problem is that this is now a player and agents market. More and more talented players are signing up with these leeches. It's only gonna get tougher
 

Mainoldo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
15,947
Players want to leave he gets them the biggest deals. It’s that simple.

There’s nothing not to like. Flipping heck he gets us players why are you moaning.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
44,266
Location
France
Verratti - at PSG for many years after signing from Serie B team
Donnarumma - At Milan for last 3-4 years and didn't move to any club
Manolas - At Roma from 2014 after siging from Greek league
Moise Kean - At Juventus, their academy player
Mkhitaryan - Moved from Dortmund to ManUtd and then was forced out from ManUtd
Matuidi - Moved from PSG to Juventus when he wasn't needed
Balotelli - He was offloaded from every club except Inter
Kluivert - Signed for Roma from Dutch league
Zlatan - Only club where he forced his move was from Inter. Juve were relegated so he had to move. He was sold by Milan for financial reasons.
Maxwell - Stayed at various clubs for many years

It's not Raiola, it's the players who wants to leave.
And then you have Pavel Nedved who was a class act and also didn't move much. Like you said the players are the one making their choices, the only issue with Raiola is that when his client made his mind up, he becomes clubs worst nightmare which is good for his client.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
21,007
Location
Moscow
He is a cnut, but it's not always up to him. Nedved was his client, for example, and he was one of the most loyal players around. He didn't want to leave Lazio and stayed with Juventus when they were relegated to Serie B.
 

Lastwolf

Full Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
6,461
Location
Brick Sofa
That's fine, but there are a subset, possibly larger, of fans that clamor for the new hotness and won't be satisfied with your caliber of signing.

For example, the signing of James and the linking to us of Longstaff, Maddison and their ilk, has been maligned as a sign that we are done as a top team, "signing low quality English dross, paying lip service to our ideals" is a sentiment I've seen a lot recently.

Raiola is a grubby little weasel but he tends to get his clients and by extension himself, paid and paid well, he's also hoovered up a decent chunk of the best players. So you're kinda stuck, if you want the De Jong's and Pogba's of this world then you have to deal with him or Mendes. If you want to be more shrewd, you have to get way better at selecting targets, planning your moves and have a patient fan base, neither of which we have anymore or maybe we never had, cause people called for SAF's head more than a few times.


As much as I hate the "follow what someone else did because they made it successful so it has to be the best way" approach, Liverpool have done this for years. Their playbook was to just buy half of Southampton and then add a few low cost up and coming foreign talents, once a good bedrock eventually was formed they added big players to give them the last push into contention. We just leap from one talisman to the next when the core is the problem.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
25,164
And then you have Pavel Nedved who was a class act and also didn't move much. Like you said the players are the one making their choices, the only issue with Raiola is that when his client made his mind up, he becomes clubs worst nightmare which is good for his client.
Exactly. He is the best agent for players, when they want to move he will do everything to get a move or a big contract. That's what agents are supposed to do. All this wont be a problem if we build a good squad and win trophies.
 

crossy1686

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
13,143
Location
Manchester, England
He isn't De Ligt's agent for a start. We just need to bring the right players in instead of worrying about agents.
 

sullydnl

Ross Kemp's caf ID
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
21,892
Even if we assume that a Raiola player will stay for 3 or 4 years before moving on to a another club (which may not be true, as mentioned above) the right player could still do a lot in 3 or 4 years. If you also make a profit off their sale....

You just have to go in to any Raiola deals with eyes wide open and try to assess the player's likely outlook. In Pogba's case it never seemed unlikely to me that he would push for a move to a club like Madrid at some point but for other players that might not be the case.
 

Swarlos

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
157
Location
Oslo, Norway.
Supports
Lyn FK, Liverpool
Pep agrees with this.

Regarding De Ligt: I think we should be in for him. The way we get them to stay is to become a top club again. It depends on the character of the player regarding becoming disruptive. Some will do their job effectively and quietly before leaving, like Salah appears to be doing at Liverpool.

Lukaku actually sacked Raiola a while back so he can't be blamed for this. Really disappointed in Lukaku for throwing in the towel so easily. Will be glad to see him leave. He just hasn't been committed.
What exactly is Salah doing at Liverpool?
 

Lynty

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
1,942
It's a modern trend to change workplaces every couple of years. This is common place everywhere. It's a business environment, employees don't bank on loyalty from their employer, and vice versa.

Pogba has given us enough time to try and rebuild, we failed and now have to start again, why should he stick around.

Saying that, he's more replaceable than some people think. So big drama about nothing in my opinion
 

André Dominguez

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
3,888
Location
Lisbon
Supports
Benfica, Académica
Agents usually have agendas on unknown players hey want to value (look at Lazio with the Pedro Neto and Jordão). The clubs spend virtual money, and when the players move they will receive virtual money, until the player gets a major transfer to a big club (if it ever happens).
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
15,393
why should he stick around.
Because he took the big money that came with signing a six year contract and Utd don’t want to sell him. He’s got every right to want to leave but when Utd don’t want to sell him then it’s his job to be professional about it.
 

AJ10

Full Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2018
Messages
2,498
Why do people believe this cnut is telling players where to go and players have no say in it.
 

Bwuk

Full Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
12,986
I don’t have a issue with him. It’s his job to get his players the best deal possible.

I know Pogba wants to leave and is a Raiola client, but can anyone blame him? Juve, Real, PSG etc would all take him in a heart beat, and we are 6th and it’s not looking like things are going to get better.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
15,746
Verratti - at PSG for many years after signing from Serie B team
Donnarumma - At Milan for last 3-4 years and didn't move to any club
Manolas - At Roma from 2014 after siging from Greek league
Moise Kean - At Juventus, their academy player
Mkhitaryan - Moved from Dortmund to ManUtd and then was forced out from ManUtd
Matuidi - Moved from PSG to Juventus when he wasn't needed
Balotelli - He was offloaded from every club except Inter
Kluivert - Signed for Roma from Dutch league
Zlatan - Only club where he forced his move was from Inter. Juve were relegated so he had to move. He was sold by Milan for financial reasons.
Maxwell - Stayed at various clubs for many years

It's not Raiola, it's the players who wants to leave.
The problem with Raiola is, he actively tries to switch players to other clubs even if it's not in their interest. Evra eluded to it himself, so it can't be a good thing for clubs to bring in Raiola clients and hope for a long term plan.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
25,164
The problem with Raiola is, he actively tries to switch players to other clubs even if it's not in their interest. Evra eluded to it himself, so it can't be a good thing for clubs to bring in Raiola clients and hope for a long term plan.
He won't be switching players if the players have no intentions to leave, all the agents will test the market though, to get better wages. I gave many examples, players who didn't move all the time. It's on players, not agent.
 

Lynty

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
1,942
Because he took the big money that came with signing a six year contract and Utd don’t want to sell him. He’s got every right to want to leave but when Utd don’t want to sell him then it’s his job to be professional about it.
Being professional doesn't have to mean he stays silent.

As long as he turns up and does what he's paid to do whilst he's contracted to United, despite his personal feelings, thats being professional. I'm sure he'll do that this season and he'll be at Madrid for the one after.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
15,746
He won't be switching players if the players have no intentions to leave, all the agents will test the market though, to get better wages. I gave many examples, players who didn't move all the time. It's on players, not agent.
Sure, but with big talents they will always be tempted to roll on to the next big club. Pogba was clearly using us as a stop gap. Reportedly De Ligt was pitched to go to us because he can move on to Barcelona a few years later, and so on.

Of course it's normal for agents to tap the market but Raiola is far too impressionable on his clients and has far too much power when discussing with clubs. There's a reason top managers don't really deal with him (Pep and Klopp don't really touch him do they?)
 

Bastian

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
10,555
I've made this point before and I still think we should stay well clear. But there's a much bigger problem here than just Raiola. The whole industry of football agents needs serious addressing. When Raiola got paid tens of millions of pounds on the back of the Pogba deal, the system broke.

I haven't seen any updates on UEFA's or FIFA's intentions to do something about it. But made threads for both stories when it was reported a while back here and here.

But there is also a problem with wages and young players. Which is a harder problem to fix.
 

sp_107

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
1,621
Location
Yorkshire
He is players dream as he always looks after their interest or atleast make his own interest as players interest. Canny bxxxxxd.

I am sure players love him to be their side. He made millions for Zlatan not only on wages but advising him to invest on property in Amsterdam where Zlatan made money more than he earned from football.

Barca said they never touch him but now they are dealing with him for Delegit, In football there is nothing legit.
 

Sarni

nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
51,893
Location
Krakow
Does anyone honestly think Pogba wants to leave because of money?

He moved here because of money. He wants to leave because we suck.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
25,164
Sure, but with big talents they will always be tempted to roll on to the next big club. Pogba was clearly using us as a stop gap. Reportedly De Ligt was pitched to go to us because he can move on to Barcelona a few years later, and so on.

Of course it's normal for agents to tap the market but Raiola is far too impressionable on his clients and has far too much power when discussing with clubs. There's a reason top managers don't really deal with him (Pep and Klopp don't really touch him do they?)
Jose was also a top manager and didn't have problem dealing with them, now Madrid wants to sign Pogba, they have to deal with him. Juventus, PSG, almost all big clubs deal with him.

So you are saying big talents will be tempted to roll on to next big club, how can you blame agents here? Their job is to get what the players want. He is going his job.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
44,266
Location
France
Sure, but with big talents they will always be tempted to roll on to the next big club. Pogba was clearly using us as a stop gap. Reportedly De Ligt was pitched to go to us because he can move on to Barcelona a few years later, and so on.

Of course it's normal for agents to tap the market but Raiola is far too impressionable on his clients and has far too much power when discussing with clubs. There's a reason top managers don't really deal with him (Pep and Klopp don't really touch him do they?)
Yet his clients don't move much, this theory doesn't really work for Raiola.
As for long term planning, players sign contracts and are stuck with you during their length. You are also supposed to build your team around a core of maybe 10 players, one or two players changing a couple of them every 3 years is actually a good thing. This topic is just an other way that United fans have found to moan about, as if teams keep their players for decades which leads to an other irritating statement "we are set for 10 years if we sign X".
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
11,863
Location
Somewhere out there
Does anyone honestly think Pogba wants to leave because of money?

He moved here because of money. He wants to leave because we suck.
This with bells on. He left a much better side for a promise of a Jose Mourinho and Zlatan revived Manchester United. He left winning Serie A titles and a team that the went to a CL final for a team that keeps missing out on even qualifying for the fecking competition.

Pogba then gets abused by the Stretford End and some fans act shocked that he thinks it might be better to move on? My lord take off those rose-tinted glasses. As Sarni says, we should sign any agents players and the way to keep them is to build a side that plays enjoyable football and challenges for titles.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
15,746
Jose was also a top manager and didn't have problem dealing with them, now Madrid wants to sign Pogba, they have to deal with him. Juventus, PSG, almost all big clubs deal with him.

So you are saying big talents will be tempted to roll on to next big club, how can you blame agents here? Their job is to get what the players want. He is going his job.
How many top well agents who manage world class players are ruled out to negotiate with Pep and Klopp? Sir Alex also had a few things to say about Raiola. The man was just banned for "undiscoled reasons too". Sure its lifted but you can't claim his methods or intentions aren't dodgy - and that impacts players.

PSG will deal with them because their model works for his style. Buy a galactico and look at short term success. They just focus on cycles and try and maximise the trophy haul in that time, rather than actual long term building. Real reportedly want nothing to do with Raiolas fees. Its only Zidane who wants Pogba, its reported Real higher ups aren't even keen. Correct me if I'm wrong but City Liverpool Real Barcelona all never really dealt with him, and when it comes to negotiating with his contracts it tends to piss them off.

He doesn't really act in player interests either. Evra said he's always in Paul's ear to entice him with moves away. Maintaining value is one thing but distracting is another and Raiola does the latter.

Yet his clients don't move much, this theory doesn't really work for Raiola.
As for long term planning, players sign contracts and are stuck with you during their length. You are also supposed to build your team around a core of maybe 10 players, one or two players changing a couple of them every 3 years is actually a good thing. This topic is just an other way that United fans have found to moan about, as if teams keep their players for decades which leads to an other irritating statement "we are set for 10 years if we sign X".
How can we plan for the long term if we have one player on silly wages clogging up a key spot in the team who wants out, whose sale could fund 3 other positions to solve in the team?
 

Eckers99

Michael Corleone says hello
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
4,573
I don't like the guy but let's not downplay the role of the player himself in this.

I'm not convinced Pogba saw us as anything other than a stepping stone in the first place.
 

Sassy Colin

Death or the gladioli!
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
55,793
Location
Aliens are in control of my tagline & location
Let's not get so butt hurt about shit that happens in the football industry.

The whole thing is run by idiots and riddled with corruption, deal with it or go and find a sport which isn't run by idiots and riddled with corruption (let me know which sport you find).
 

Neil_Buchanan

Cock'd
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
2,780
Location
Bolton
He gets the best deals for his players, he is good at his job. It's the personality of the players that we need to look at rather than the agent.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
25,164
How many top well agents who manage world class players are ruled out to negotiate with Pep and Klopp? Sir Alex also had a few things to say about Raiola.

PSG will deal with them because their model works for his style. Buy a galactico and look at short term success. They just focus on cycles and try and maximise the trophy haul in that time, rather than actual long term building. Real reportedly want nothing to do with Raiolas fees. Its only Zidane who wants Pogba, its reported Real higher ups aren't even keen. Correct me if I'm wrong but City Liverpool Real Barcelona all never really dealt with him, and when it comes to negotiating with his contracts it tends to piss them off.

He doesn't really act in player interests either. Evra said he's always in Paul's ear to entice him with moves away. Maintaining value is one thing but distracting is another and Raiola does the latter.
Not sure how you came up with that model for PSG when the players they have signed played for club for many years. Areola, Thiago Silva, Kimpembe, Marquinhos, Meunier, Kurzawa, Verratti, Rabiot, Cavani all are playing for PSG from years.

Barca didn't think twice to deal with him to sign De Ligt. Not sure why we are using Liverpool here as there isn't a club who pays more to agent than Liverpool and it's not even close. Last 2-3 years Liverpool topped the table, published by FA. Last year they paid 43 million when the second team paid around 22-23 million. If Raiola's players wants to move and Liverpool are interested in the profile, they will negotiate.

Also how did he not act in player's interest? Pogba's move to Juventus was the best thing to happen for the player. There are players like Hamsik who stayed at Napoli for years and IIRC he was Raiola's client too.
 

Kapardin

New Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Messages
9,917
Location
Chennai, India
More like, we should avoid players who don't seem the type of hang around long. Pogba and De Ligt are the types who will want to move to Real or Barca even if they joined us and won everything there is to win here.

Mkhitaryan is a Raiola client and he wasn't hell bent on moving. Ok, talentwise there is a difference between him and Pogba, but should be possible to sign talented players who don't have a habit of moving irrespective of their agents.