Its Raiola more than the players. The players career seems to come a poor second to whatever Raiola makes from the deal. His commission is number 1. Getting the best move for the player is number 2. If its true that he offers players to clubs mid contract surely that is a contract breach and a reason for him to be banned. how does he get away with what he's doing? Even when he finally gets banned he appeals and he's off the hook. unbelievable! I suppose it just shows how corrupt UEFA and FIFA are.
Let's not buy Raiola players again - ever
- Thread starter ThomasEmil
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We forced the transfer for Mkhitaryan <-> Sanchez swap iirc.
And let's be honest, the reason why players can afford being such pricks in our club is because the football is shite atm. If We're as good as Barca/Juve, no one would kick up a fuss for a transfer.
And let's be honest, the reason why players can afford being such pricks in our club is because the football is shite atm. If We're as good as Barca/Juve, no one would kick up a fuss for a transfer.
This reeks of a knee-jerk reaction to how we have fared - rather than an objective assessment. Raiola gets his players what they want - be it staying at a club or moving. We sold Raiola and Pogba a certain vision, and unless it involved being a shambles 3 years after the move, we have clearly not lived up to our end of the bargain. Loads of Raiola players stay at their clubs for years on end; the key similarity is that they're happy to be there and are doing well. The moment they want a move, Raiola gets them one - and one to a club the player is happy moving to.
If we were successful and winning things, players would not want out. Want an inkling about our standing? Well, we seem to be having issues attracting players to us even now. Who have we signed? What would make a player choose us if even Spurs was in for them - apart from money? We have no CL, are a complete shambles on the pitch and have not threatened the league for 6 years. That's hardly the best value-proposition to attract talent.
Pogba meanwhile has seen the club and the quality around him deteriorate. We reward mediocre players like Jones and Smalling, have Alexis on the books and are losing players like Herrera. We don't have any new signings in right now and will rely on Arsenal's lack of funds and Chelsea's transfer ban to aid us in a "battle" for Top 4, as things stand (hopefully we sign a bunch, of course, but that's the reality today).
Pogba is entitled to want a move. Do I back him and love him? Nope. I don't. I feel he's prone to be self-entitled and self-absorbed and hasn't shown the mettle to drive those around him. But that is a rare commodity and he's been by far our best player in his time - and got the lion's share of abuse while at it.
In summary, it's not Raiola. It's Pogba himself, that wants to move. Stop finding excuses.
Sacking managers every other season isn't reflective of a long term approach. Mbappe pretty much said he's looking for other challenges similar to Pogba. Neymar is causing a few issues and it's clear he wants out. Veratti wanted to go. Munier is on sale from PSG and has been in the shop window for a while. Buffon came and went.
Sure they have a core that have stuck around. They always will with the wages they offer. Their general approach isn't one of patience though, its far from it.
Whilst I love the idea in reality it wouldn't be practical he is one of the games super agents to avoid him would take yourself out of the race for so many top talents.
QSI has only sacked one manager that they hired, it was Blanc.
Eh, there are reports he is looking to leave this season as well. I will believe it when I see it. He has a contract until 2023, and it would take crazy money for Liverpool to accept a bid. Can't see it happening.
Not really. Certainly not to the extent of Raiola's players.
Mendes has been heavily involved with our club for the last few years and I only hear good things about him. Every player that talks about him does so positively and they all praise what he has done for their careers. SAF was also full of praise for Mendes in the dealings they had.
I have never heard anyone say these sorts of things about Raiola. In fact, I've heard the exact opposite.
It's not the players I'm against. It's in their best interest to seek out the best agent capable of extracting max value for them.
It's agents that don't value their relationship with us that I'm against. Agents that advise their clients to act out. Agents that use us as a stepping stone. Guys like Raiola.
We should come out & declare no more dealings with Raiola to take back the power from him & force players interested in moving to United to not engage him. I.'ve a feeling more clubs will join this stance if one big clubs actively avoids Raiola.
It's agents that don't value their relationship with us that I'm against. Agents that advise their clients to act out. Agents that use us as a stepping stone. Guys like Raiola.
We should come out & declare no more dealings with Raiola to take back the power from him & force players interested in moving to United to not engage him. I.'ve a feeling more clubs will join this stance if one big clubs actively avoids Raiola.
The football can improve of we get the right midfield and a top centre back and full back this season. Question remains do we have the ambition and the vision to sort out our priorities?
We are intrested in Bruno fernandes, and people argue his best position is no 10 and not an 8 as an Herrera replacement, ( could not evaluate it until we see him play). Linked with long staff ( although a talent, is he ready to take on such a big role without being inconsistent and found wanting at times?) Situation with Rabiot seems unclear, situation with N dombele seems unclear just like it was last year with fabinho. Rodri linked with city.
Lots of questions to be answered.
That's how I see the whole saga as well. From Pogba's POV it's pretty logical, at this point of his career he needs to challenge for the biggest titles. United was supposed to become that sort of team under Mourinho. It obviously didn't work out, and the club will need at least 2-3 seasons for the rebuild.
Again Raiola's players don't move much, we actually know who they are. Which player that has Raiola as agent moved clubs more than average? Ibrahimovic is the exception and the moves made sense because he started in a minor football country and climbed the ladders of European football, he probably would have stayed at Juventus if it wasn't for the Calciopoli. The others aren't different to the likes of Falcao, Di Maria, Thiago Silva and many other Gestifute players.
As for positive remarks Ibrahimovic and Maxwell consider that he is family, Matuidi joined him because he saw that when he was hanging out with Maxwell.
Go and read what Zlatan and Pogba had to say about Raiola. Every player loves their agent, that's the reason they work together.
You will only hear good things about Mendes as he is bringing players to your club, wonder what Portugal fans say about him?
Its not the players it us. You might as well change the title to "lets not sign world class players again" because thats the problem. We arent a good a enough team for them right now.
This sort of thinking belongs to pre-Bosman rule. Players not a slave to club. Its mutual.
It's not Raiolas fault players want to leave us, it's the fact we are run terribly, have no sense of direction as a club, we have no identity, play dire football and compete for nothing. We are just not that attractive to play for at the moment.
Hopefully that changes sooner rather than later, but it's taken Liverpool 25+ years, I fear our road back will be equally as tough.
Hopefully that changes sooner rather than later, but it's taken Liverpool 25+ years, I fear our road back will be equally as tough.
To Real or Barca man. Who couldn't afford or didn't need him at the time man.
you expect Pogba to stay "loyal"/affiliated to a club that does not compete for the highest honours, has a disastrous squad, an unproven manager, where he gets all the blame for not being able to carry a bunch of bums on his back, and where some fans think its ok to openly abuse him?
as for De Ligt, even PSG is a step up from Ajax (no disrespect intended).
This isn’t a comment in isolation though. It goes along with the countless other things he’s said and done. He can just respectfully say he won’t answer the question. He needs to suggest his intention to leave in private. He knows exactly what he’s doing by doing it in the media.
Salary has plenty to do with it when you get paid as much as he does. He’s paid not just as a player but as a representative of the brand, as much as that is nauseating, and he has continually courted controversy with these statements to engineer a transfer.
All this aside he’d get more slack if his desire to leave didn’t manifest itself so obviously in the way he performs on the pitch.
Respectfully disagree. He's been our best performer on virtually every aspect. So if this is true of him, wonder what it says for the rest. Most forget that even the best players in the world aren't "on it" every minute of every game. They create magical moments every now and then - and it's the same for Pogba, except we see him every moment of every game and at times it's frustrating. Why don't we think Lingard or Matic or Smalling or Jones et al want to leave? Because we have lower expectations of them. We don't expect magic all the time. With Pogba, the weight of expectation leads to such judgments and much though I find him "not the most likeable" for his off-pitch stuff, this is one stick we shouldn't be using on him.
Amazingly, some of his best performances actually came under Jose - a man who he wanted out. Doesn't exactly scream out a player that was downing tools on the pitch.
What I never understand is, why aren't clubs ever taking any flack?
For instance, CR7 wanted to move but it was all blamed on Real and how Saf wouldn't sell them a virus. But we sold Becks and Stam without a second thought.
Annoys me when clubs or their fans get on their high horse about this.
For instance, CR7 wanted to move but it was all blamed on Real and how Saf wouldn't sell them a virus. But we sold Becks and Stam without a second thought.
Annoys me when clubs or their fans get on their high horse about this.
Riaola is only part of the problem. Pogba himself is the real problem.
There's always some transfer problems with Pogba and how he would do to get his way. That's how we signed him in the first place anyway.
There's always some transfer problems with Pogba and how he would do to get his way. That's how we signed him in the first place anyway.
The only way to neutralise the power of the agents is by all the clubs coming together and deciding we ain't dealing with x,y,z, fat raiola, etc etc
Then again, the agents are doing the bidding of the players. Well smart players like Zlatan, Pogba (he's not stupid) etc. So what can we do?
Then again, the agents are doing the bidding of the players. Well smart players like Zlatan, Pogba (he's not stupid) etc. So what can we do?
I'm not sure Guardiola thinks buying players from an agent labeling him a 'dog' would be the most logical example you could find
Agree particularly with this. Player's don't realise what damage he does to them. If they're solely interested in money then it's fair enough, but he obviously doesn't act in the best interests of their overall careers. He cares only about lining his own pockets and theirs.
Pogba has the talent to be the best player in the world. He will almost certainly never reach that level because his agent is continually unsettling him.
De Ligt has the talent to be the best defender in the world. If he moves to PSG and Ligue 1, it's extremely unlikely he'll get there.
Ibrahimovic was the same. He wasn't exactly the easiest character himself but he was a fly by night at every club he played at, if he'd actually stayed anywhere he could have been better than he was.
I'm no footballer, but when u listen to what managers and league associations are providing of communications regarding agents fare on the market;
If you read the things the Secret footballer wrote about agents,
then don't make out agents seem like they're saints here. They ain't.
I might be wrong, but I think as agents become career advisers for young people, the players with high stock prices will get traded more by competent agents being stock speculators.
If you read the things the Secret footballer wrote about agents,
then don't make out agents seem like they're saints here. They ain't.
I might be wrong, but I think as agents become career advisers for young people, the players with high stock prices will get traded more by competent agents being stock speculators.
According to most news outlets, he is though.
Clubs are as bad as some agents, in fact you have clubs that force agents on players or refuse to pay clubs from smaller confederations. League associations are absolutely crooked and managers are part of most shenaniqans. But the worst agents aren't the big name agents for the most part, the worst agents are in smaller leagues and operate in Africa, South America and Eastern Europe.
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So Mendes is getting around 36 million from Felix deal, so much for good things about him.
Blaming the players and agents are all fine if you have a proper structure. Our club doesn't have any and no matter which player we sign it will be a mess. Only if Woodward was doing his job as effectively and smartly as Raiola we won't be crying about it.
The issue with this is that there is some sort of implication that a player who would otherwise be happy to remain at his club now wants to leave because his agent has ‘made him’. Which is of course, a nonsense. Pogba is so clearly better than our current plight. De Ligt is currently better than the Dutch League. Lukaku was ready to move up. This whole boogeyman depiction of football agents seems far fetched.
If we had signed a world class player who had a different agent, they would want out at the moment too. The consensus is that we have two world class players at the moment. Only one of them is represented by Raiola, yet people seem happy to forget that both seemingly want to leave. Of course the players who would only go backwards if they left us want to stay. I read an article yesterday saying ‘United to offer Scott McTominay new deal to ward off interest from Crystal Palace’. Well there’s a tough choice for Scott! Next people will say they want ‘loyal’ players like Scott. The reality is they want average players. If Scott had to make a decision between United, Juventus and Real Madrid, it may not be so straightforward.
I don’t remember our best players regularly fighting to leave the club under Fergie when we were a better side. They all resisted. I doubt that was because their agents were all simply such lovely people.
If we had signed a world class player who had a different agent, they would want out at the moment too. The consensus is that we have two world class players at the moment. Only one of them is represented by Raiola, yet people seem happy to forget that both seemingly want to leave. Of course the players who would only go backwards if they left us want to stay. I read an article yesterday saying ‘United to offer Scott McTominay new deal to ward off interest from Crystal Palace’. Well there’s a tough choice for Scott! Next people will say they want ‘loyal’ players like Scott. The reality is they want average players. If Scott had to make a decision between United, Juventus and Real Madrid, it may not be so straightforward.
I don’t remember our best players regularly fighting to leave the club under Fergie when we were a better side. They all resisted. I doubt that was because their agents were all simply such lovely people.
He probably has which says a lot about the rest. I’m referring the way he just walks about the pitch at times and his reaction when he loses the ball. If you can see a player isn’t doing his utmost, and there have been plenty of times when he hasn’t, then you bring the criticism on yourself.
His best performances definitely weren’t under Jose. Not this season past. If you don’t think he downed tools in games then nothing I say can change that. You’re wrong though.
If there's one thing I've realised, it's this.
Yes Raiola is a cnut and he enjoys being a cnut squeezing every cent out of everyone. But
1) he always obeys the player's wishes and
2) the player always gets a sizeable chunk of change as well
So when you see Raiola and the player both being cnuts, it's because the player has given the go ahead to be cnuts. Sure, he'll whisper all sorts of nonsense in the player's ears, but the player still needs to be the one to give the go ahead. That's why not all his players are cnuts who go through transfer sagas every year. Only those who tell him they want it and he thinks he can squeeze more money.
Yes Raiola is a cnut and he enjoys being a cnut squeezing every cent out of everyone. But
1) he always obeys the player's wishes and
2) the player always gets a sizeable chunk of change as well
So when you see Raiola and the player both being cnuts, it's because the player has given the go ahead to be cnuts. Sure, he'll whisper all sorts of nonsense in the player's ears, but the player still needs to be the one to give the go ahead. That's why not all his players are cnuts who go through transfer sagas every year. Only those who tell him they want it and he thinks he can squeeze more money.
This. I also don't understand the request of loyalty from the player. It is just a job. Also I don't see loyalty from the club when they want to get rid of the players like Bale or Sanchez.
That won't be the problem with Pogba though. He already has the biggest deal he's getting - we've let him down quality wise. Although of course he hasn't himself been as good as wanted.
Mino Raiola is like a typical old school trade union representative. He will always fight tooth and nail for his customers no matter what. Some things its BS but its not. For example when Balotelli was at the pits it would have been easy for Mino to just cut him off and focus on Pogba who was, at the time, completing one of the most lucrative transfers in football history. Instead Mino put ample time and pride at the side and went on begging for his customer's behalf up until he found a new employer for him. He once described the difficulty and humiliation he suffered to rescue Balotelli's career. Having said that Mino didn't care. He would always be at his player's corner which is why even strong characters like Nedved and Ibra loves him
However Mino suits clubs like ours as well. Transfers are complicated and requires alot of bluff, diplomacy and time. Rumours are spread by clubs, players and agents often to test the water. A good football person would have the know how and the contacts to know which rumours are true and which are simply BS while less experienced people often ends up being screwed. Mino can make all that complexity go away. Just drown him and his client in a pile of cash and he will fight at your corner and bring in the player you want. Which is why Woodward tend to do business with this guy. He makes him look good of course for a price.
However Mino suits clubs like ours as well. Transfers are complicated and requires alot of bluff, diplomacy and time. Rumours are spread by clubs, players and agents often to test the water. A good football person would have the know how and the contacts to know which rumours are true and which are simply BS while less experienced people often ends up being screwed. Mino can make all that complexity go away. Just drown him and his client in a pile of cash and he will fight at your corner and bring in the player you want. Which is why Woodward tend to do business with this guy. He makes him look good of course for a price.
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Good source that
Eh?Good source that
I would want him as my agent if I was a professional. Say what you may but he takes care of his clients. Loyalty is 2-way. Clubs discard surplus players like trash, players always need to look after themselves in their short careers. Brilliant agent.
Nope, he's brokering a deal for De Ligt and his agent due to his connections. They're using Raiola's company (which is basically Raiola) to get connected with all the big teams in Europe.