If we don’t sign anyone this window it shows the club lacks ambition

Bubz27

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People think this footbal- sorry- business club has any ambition?

We proved when we finished second and didn't invest that we don't have ambition.
We proved when we said we'd have a proper process to hire a new manager after Jose and didn't, that we don't have ambition.
We proved when we expected a season of underachievement under Ole because we didn't have the right squad that we don't have ambition.
The fact Ole still has a job when Emery and Pochettino were sacked for similar, or even slightly better, results probes we don't have any ambition.
 

RedBanker

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Spunking millions more on players will suddenly make us better is it? What about the millions we already spunked on the so called defence fix? What happened to our 80 mil CB. Defensive capabilities are being coached out of him I would say. AWB should have become better attacking wise if properly coached. Our coaching team is useless. Yes the "new player bounce" will work for a month or so but then what? So go ahead and buy 4 players in the window. We will be in the same dire straits come March.
 

sammsky1

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Are we still on this? He out spent every non-oil club. Even moreso we are now seeing Maguire really wasn't much of a smalling replacement. That toxic parasite was backed.
And he beat every non oil club in the league table. And Klopp too. And was getting into cup finals for fun.

Find me one quantitative criteria where Mourinho didn’t demonstrate progress and then I’ll be done!
 

sammsky1

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People think this footbal- sorry- business club has any ambition?

We proved when we finished second and didn't invest that we don't have ambition.
We proved when we said we'd have a proper process to hire a new manager after Jose and didn't, that we don't have ambition.
We proved when we expected a season of underachievement under Ole because we didn't have the right squad that we don't have ambition.
The fact Ole still has a job when Emery and Pochettino were sacked for similar, or even slightly better, results probes we don't have any ambition.
Very consistent outcomes from a singular strategy!
 

Hawks2008

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With Pogba's continued absence and McT now out for a few months not signing a midfielder (ideally 2) would be criminal and essentially means throwing any chance of top 4 and silverware out the window.

If we have summer targets then move them forward, we have the money make things happen. Sadly though we will get briefs telling us "hard market to operate in/happy with squad/Matic return like a new signing"..
 

ravi2

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I'll stop you right there.

The minute we hired Ole as permanent manager showed the club's lack of ambition full stop.

We were promised a change after Mourinho and we all got duped.
It goes further back. when we sold Ronaldo we replaced him with Valencia it showed a serious lack of ambition.

When Juve sold Zidane they bought Buffon, Thruram and Nedved and dominated the Serie A for years....we bought Valencia to replace one of the greatest players of all time. The 80m went to the Glazers, not back into the squad. We have been on a gradual downward spiral since then.


We have lacked ambition from the time the Glazers bought this club and sadly I dont see anything really changing until the Glazers and/or Ed goes.

Till then it'll be the same shit, new day
 

sammsky1

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I don't have to..

... because that wasn't the point of contention
Your contention was that he was backed. I disagree as he delivered vis a vis his prior backing and needed further investments for the next stage.

Until you prove that’s not the case, preferably via some factual reasoning, your statement is false imo.

Our club can’t afford to win league titles right now as our owners don’t have the financial appetite vs oil clubs.

And why would they when they have little interest in us beyond being a commercial enterprise, and not an organisation resourced sufficiently to win.
 

crackers0seven

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Any player we need to improve us, maddison or grealish etc won't happen. We won't get top 4. We HAVE to win europa league. We arent good enough to do top 4
 

The Boy

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Well I wouldn't bloody ask if I did then.
Ryan is some random tweeting, Laurie is Laurie Whitwell, who is the Man Utd correspondent for The Athletic, before that he covered Utd for the Daily Mail.
 

gajender

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I disagree actually.

Our transfer strategy so far is half the reason we are in this mess. Forcing through a transfer at all costs this month will do absolutely nothing to help our situation in the long run. It's vital we sign the right players of the right quality. Panicking and spaffing a load on a player because they are available is a bad idea, as is paying over the odds or offering a huge contract to make a move happen.
It's not the end of the world if you overpay for the right players what kills clubs is heavily overpaying for decent talents which our club seem to be specialist in, Our summer recruitment despite the narrative of positivity was again a failure we vastly overpaid for two defenders who have serious limitations and may need replacing in not so near future if we need to become elite team again.
 

MrBest

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It is funny how we still think we havw a right to sign these players. If i was Sancho, i would not go to United. If i was Maddison, I would stay at Leicester. United is rotten from top to bottom and is being run by a CEO who is a clueless and a manager that literally has no tactical brain and his staff are equally as bad.

We didn't buy when we needed to in yhe summer, why would now be different. Besides, whi would want to come here and be managed by a clown who is playing football that was relevant 20 yeara ago.
 

gajender

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My point is their contract is running out. We don’t want to spend loads of money anymore so why not give someone like Matuidi a 2 year contract on a free transfer.

Every single signing doesn’t have to be long term. He’s a much better DM than anything we have in the squad.
Only problem seems to be he isn't a DM at all.
 

NewGlory

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I think we are now paying the price for the vast amounts of money we have wasted personally. There isn't a magic money tree. We have spent £850m since Fergie retired and what do we have to show for it? Not much.

Glazers out. Woodward out. Ole out.
You are wrong about the tree. There actually is a magic money tree - it's called sponsorships and merchandise sales, grows a lot of money on that tree. We are one of the wealthiest football clubs in the world. Check out how much other top clubs are spending. £850M over 6 years is not a good reason to start crying and stop spending, especially once you calculate net spend - we are not just buying we have also sold. The problem is how we spend, not how much we spend. The whole narrative of "we have spent so much, we can't do it anymore" is peddled by the greedy bankers behind United. The same bankers who wasted money on stupidity without having any coherent strategy other than "let's try this manager, this time around"
 

RedDevil@84

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We don't need another window to prove anything. Our CEO has already said he finds it difficult to go after 2 players in a summer window
 

Chairman Steve

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A current theory I have on the board is I think they've learned their lesson from LVG and Jose to not go balls out for a manager, because of the bad buys they made. I like to think that Sanchez was the last straw where they decided "feck this" but then realised they handed Jose a new contract just before this and then they're up shit creek for the 18/19 season. Jose finds out that they've reneged the contract renewal and probably rightfully gets pissed off at them. He leaves then they decide to try and do things for themselves with their convoluted system of internal staff ranging from chief scouts, head scouts and whatever the likes of John Murtough do.

They get OGS in because he's available and think it's a PR dream for the club as it's a club legend. OGS unexpectedly has the honeymoon to end all honeymoons and they're backed into a corner as soon as PSG get dumped out in Paris. They give him the permanent role but I don't think he's entirely trusted with resources as LVG or Jose was.

Hence why it's a possible reason why our spend is so low. The three signings strike me as more like signings the club would make rather than the manager would. The scouts and heads within would say get Maguire and AWB because they're seen as safe and low-risk bets. OGS probably okayed it because he isn't going to rock the boat is he? Unlike LVG or Jose.

Unfortunately they may be too risk-averse now. We needed central midfielders and a forward too, now we're thin on central midfielders and relying on youth up front. It might be that they're waiting for the next big thing in management to come along before giving carte blanche out again.
 

sammsky1

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It's not the end of the world if you overpay for the right players what kills clubs is heavily overpaying for decent talents which our club seem to be specialist in, Our summer recruitment despite the narrative of positivity was again a failure we vastly overpaid for two defenders who have serious limitations and may need replacing in not so near future if we need to become elite team again.
I agree with you on this.

Over the SAF years, we probably ‘overpaid’ for Cole, Rooney, Ferdinand, and a few others: all were siesmic sums of money at the time. And by the time they left we could consider them as bargains. The only one that didn’t really work as well was Veron and even then it wasn’t a total disaster.

Post SAF we’ve got every massive signing wrong, be that DiMaria, Pogba, Lukaku, Shaw, Sanchez or Fred. None have delivered what Rooney or Ferdinand or Cole did.

And then none of our ‘value signings’ like Schneiderlin, Depay, Rojo or Bailly etc turned into gold like schmeical, Irwin, park, vidic or evra.

Our recruitment post SAF/Gill has been an unmitigated and unparalleled disaster that I’ve never seen from any top organisation in any industry. Certainly a lot worse than Liverpool even under Benitez.
 
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The Boy

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Not so much lack of ambition, but utter madness if you don't at least try to get a decent central midfielder in if not 2. With Pogba and McT both out for weeks if not months, you are in serious trouble in midfield. I feel a bit sorry for Ole (controversial!) as your team looks so much better with those two in it and of all the players to lose, he couldn't have picked 2 worse ones. Lose Fred for 3 or 4 weeks and its game over unless you buy.
 

gajender

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A current theory I have on the board is I think they've learned their lesson from LVG and Jose to not go balls out for a manager, because of the bad buys they made. I like to think that Sanchez was the last straw where they decided "feck this" but then realised they handed Jose a new contract just before this and then they're up shit creek for the 18/19 season. Jose finds out that they've reneged the contract renewal and probably rightfully gets pissed off at them. He leaves then they decide to try and do things for themselves with their convoluted system of internal staff ranging from chief scouts, head scouts and whatever the likes of John Murtough do.

They get OGS in because he's available and think it's a PR dream for the club as it's a club legend. OGS unexpectedly has the honeymoon to end all honeymoons and they're backed into a corner as soon as PSG get dumped out in Paris. They give him the permanent role but I don't think he's entirely trusted with resources as LVG or Jose was.

Hence why it's a possible reason why our spend is so low. The three signings strike me as more like signings the club would make rather than the manager would. The scouts and heads within would say get Maguire and AWB because they're seen as safe and low-risk bets. OGS probably okayed it because he isn't going to rock the boat is he? Unlike LVG or Jose.

Unfortunately they may be too risk-averse now. We needed central midfielders and a forward too, now we're thin on central midfielders and relying on youth up front. It might be that they're waiting for the next big thing in management to come along before giving carte blanche out again.
How on earth spending 130 million on limited players like Wan-Bissaka and Maguire and expecting them to improve upon those limitations and step up be considered safe and low risk bets is simply beyond me ,they were risky acquisition for the prices we paid and so far things aren't looking great.
 

sammsky1

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Unfortunately they may be too risk-averse now. We needed central midfielders and a forward too, now we're thin on central midfielders and relying on youth up front. It might be that they're waiting for the next big thing in management to come along before giving carte blanche out again.
With hindsight, that was clearly Brendon Rogers last summer, but the few people on our board are not footballing savvy enough to know he would be able to return to PL and make such an immediate impact. I doubt Woodward even shortlisted Rodgers when Mourinho was sacked and pre PSG.

Ditto that person was Potchitinho but they signed Mourinho instead.

Ditto that person was Mourinho but they signed Moyes instead.

But that’s the role of a footballing savvy CEO or DoF or whatever you want to call them: to know which managers have the experience and relavance when you need a new guy. Much like Edwards and Charlton immediately knew after sacking Atkinson that it was SAF they had to get at any cost ... and then back that judgement come what may, knowing their man will eventually come good. I agree the board don’t yet have that conviction for OGS.

Mourinho was right also about that: We don’t have credible footballing pedigree or heritage at the senior most levels of our club after Gill, SAF and all his support staff left to be replaced by Woodward, Moyes and Round! And they’ve got just about every major decision wrong since then too.
 

hungrywing

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Then why do fans keep turning up then? The best thing that fans can do is make a stand against the Glazers again. I don’t understand why match going fans made a stand back then when we were relatively successful. Now we are an absolute mess and nothing is done to make change.
If Malcolm Glazer were still alive, I believe Woodward would have been replaced by now.

You hear a lot of 'the Glazers could sack him' or 'they'll never sack him, they're beholden to him' - of which the latter is definitely a factor - but it looks a lot like the actual dynamic is that the Glazer children are varying degrees of clueless/largely apathetic. Sort of the godfather/king is dead and the consigliere/royal vizier running the show.

AKA any Glazers Out campaign might need to consider that rather than anti-Glazer it needs to focus on coaxing them into taking agency/giving them a possible 'out'.

I think we are now paying the price for the vast amounts of money we have wasted personally. There isn't a magic money tree. We have spent £850m since Fergie retired and what do we have to show for it? Not much.

Glazers out. Woodward out. Ole out.
Well, there sort of is/was. But we have non-gardeners tending it. Woodward is veeeery close to being in straight up thief territory. Robbing from millions of less well-off people.

I disagree actually.

Our transfer strategy so far is half the reason we are in this mess. Forcing through a transfer at all costs this month will do absolutely nothing to help our situation in the long run. It's vital we sign the right players of the right quality. Panicking and spaffing a load on a player because they are available is a bad idea, as is paying over the odds or offering a huge contract to make a move happen.
The entire reason. Well, technically Woodward being in charge of that strategy.

Assuming Woodward is untouchable, there are two ways to correct this problem: first is the 'get the right manager' (haha). Second is decide to to run the club like a Dortmund for around five or six years. Might end up shorter, might even end up longer, but that decision itself stanches the bleeding. Trouble there is....

Why can't we spend effectively? What has been stopping us in the last decade or more to do that???
....Woodward and his insecurity-based need to 'be the big guy'.

Every major problem at the club currently comes from overpaying. End of story. There's room for debate as to why he's overpaying but the rest is all details. Can't move bad players, overpaying them. Got an overrated player who thinks they're bigger than the club, you paid him like he was. Running into a financial wall (contrary to what seems to be popular belief we can't spend 200m every summer), cause you're overpaying. Now clubs know you're desperate, and have even more leverage over you, cause you're overpaying. You're now regarded with contempt by many within the footballing world, which leads you into more overpaying, etc. Players underperforming/performing erratically, you're overpaying them. This is basic organizational leadership stuff. Even the most well-intentioned personality will be affected.

He and Judge have been overpaying, and it's created a culture of entitlement and desperation. Again, there's room for academic debate as to the psychological reasons those two might engage in this behavior. Could be that they know they're out of their depth and are resigned to having to overpay against the tide of contempt. Really though it's likely that they think it's a sign of projecting strength when it's actually a sign of weakness. This weakness permeates down through an organization like contaminant leaching into groundwater which leads to instability which leads to 'strength' projecting in undesireable ways.

The club right now is built in his image. Which in many ways is the opposite of SAF.

None of this is new information.
 
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M4nu4Life

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Until we fix the midfield we are stuffed.

We badly need two more good mids, and at least one of them needs to be creative.
 

Godfather

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We need at least 3, better would be 4 signings and a proper manager. We won't get more than one player and stick with Ole. This club has lost all ambition years ago.
 

Amerifan

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McT is out for months and Pogba out/gone depending on your interpretation. Fred and Matic is now our default CM partnership.

We don’t get at least 2 CMs we're fecked!
I agree the lack of quality midfielders will hurt our chances. However, buying two players better than the backups we have, in January, would cost us dearly. Especially now that everyone knows our predicament. Worse, they become redundant in a few months. Bad long term move for the club. CL would be nice on paper, but honestly, a squad this thin in the CL? Would going out in the first round actually draw talent? Better to build and stay out of Europe until we can mount a real challenge.
 

mav_9me

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I agree the lack of quality midfielders will hurt our chances. However, buying two players better than the backups we have, in January, would cost us dearly. Especially now that everyone knows our predicament. Worse, they become redundant in a few months. Bad long term move for the club. CL would be nice on paper, but honestly, a squad this thin in the CL? Would going out in the first round actually draw talent? Better to build and stay out of Europe until we can mount a real challenge.
But you can't give up on a season. There are players playing every week giving their all who deserve to play with better players.

In the span of 4 weeks we will have played 10 games, for the last 8 of which we will have only 2 CM in Fred and Matic. 2 games vs city and one vs Liverpool.

You cannot tell me Manchester fecking united is going to be down to 2 CM and we fecking can't buy anyone cuz of the long term. We do live in the now too right?

And even if we had our original full set of midfielders we probably need a No. 10 anyway cuz the manager only plays with a no. 10.

If we don't buy at least 2 midfielders I'm going to stop watching. If the fecking club gives up on the season, then so can and should the fans.
 

Nevilles.Wear.Prada

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No ambitious club will play matic young mata pereira. (And no, not having anybody else in their position isn't an excuse, they brought this upon themselves).
We haven't made a show in intent in many transfers.
And no, dont cite me HM as an example, we sold lukaku for about the same amount and freed up lots of wages in felliani hereira sanzhez to compensate WanBissaka transfer fees.
For a club this huge, we should be spending 100mil to 200mill every year with or without selling just to remain top. Yes, the rules have changed and market dictates that.
No club with ambition will continue to employ extremely outdated transfer policy or lack of consistent structured recruitment strategy. And that's why even IF we spend big it turns to shite.
They have accepted mediocrity and by hiring a fan favorite ex player they slowly brainwashing us that this is our level through him.
Nobody with desire to win the league will go to a manager whose most recent EPL success was relegating cardiff. No offense to OLE, i would jump too if somebody is stupid enough to give me the opportunity.
So to sum it up, the boards, the ceo, the manager have all accepted the our new level. And players beginning to believe it, and fans are being told at every turn the difficulty of current transfer market, current financial restrictions, club rebuilding shite just to justify their position.
Its up to the fans now to crank up the pressure on OLE and the board.
No two ways to it.
In a league where liverpool is walking all over it, nothing hurts more than looking at OLE playing counter attack against the mights of EPL lower table teams.
Rant over, feck this.
 

Nevilles.Wear.Prada

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Are these players available in January?

Also, Ole has made it clear that his transfer targets will be long term players. Matuidi and Eriksen, whilst good players, dont exactly scream long term.
I'll take a short term signings that ensure top 4 this season compared to longer term signing that push for a title in 4 seasons time. Its only been 6 years and look at the state of the club, wait another 6 years.. You are looking at complete obliteration off the worlds elite footballing chart. Welcome to the social media and financial driven world.
 

Nevilles.Wear.Prada

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I'll take a short term signings that ensure top 4 this season compared to longer term signing that push for a title in 4 seasons time. Its only been 6 years and look at the state of the club, wait another 6 years.. You are looking at complete obliteration off the worlds elite footballing chart. Welcome to the social media and financial driven world.
Ok, now rant over.
 

manunited1919

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We absolutely need to sign at least 1 capable midfielder this January, and not because we need to show ambition; it’s more as an insurance to prevent the sxxt really hitting the fan:
  • Pogba seems to need a surgery
  • McT is out injured for some time
  • Pereira is terrible as a number 8
  • Matic’s legs are gone
So that leaves us with Fred playing each and every game. If Fred gets injured, which is possible due to playing each game, things can turn ugly very very quickly.
 

Bobcat

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We absolutely need to sign at least 1 capable midfielder this January, and not because we need to show ambition; it’s more as an insurance to prevent the sxxt really hitting the fan:
  • Pogba seems to need a surgery
  • McT is out injured for some time
  • Pereira is terrible as a number 8
  • Matic’s legs are gone
So that leaves us with Fred playing each and every game. If Fred gets injured, which is possible due to playing each game, things can turn ugly very very quickly.
This. Shame about Haaland, but hes not really what we need. We are desperate for new midfielders and if we dont sign anyone its going to be a rough spring
 

Andycoleno9

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When we finished second and have a chance to catch City Glazers refused to invest. Then they went for Ole as cheap manager option. That was a,sign for me that they are not interested in spending more that is needed in this squad. Even our manager yesterday said that he likes atmosphere around the squad and that we will maybe buy one player( and if that player fits with his character which is another potential excuse). He is maybe clueless manager but even he is not that clueless that does not see how badly we need at least 3 players to fill gaps plus 2 or 3 players to upgrade current players. So he has been told that we will not spend money.

Tbh, i am happy with that at this moment. I don't trust Ole in transfer market.
 

Son

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Because the Glazers lowered the ticket prices back then and that was good enough to buy their loyalty.
In the thread "When will our match going fans finally crack?", a match going fan replied to me that drinking and singing with his buddies meant more than results so there you have it. We have an unambitious fan base and it reflects on the management.
Like I always say, top reds are the ultimate Glazer enablers.
One of the best explanations I’ve ever read about United’s culture slide.

Fabio Capello said about Real Madrid even when they hadn’t won a European Cup for 30 years in the early 90’s their fans undisputedly thought they were the greatest club in the world and how impressive their culture was.

Many of the United fans who left us in 2005 have been a huge loss. They even created their own club they hated the Glazer’s that much. This could explain where a proportion of our truly passionate fans went.

Clubs like Real and Barcelona haven’t experienced this exodus making their support more passionate at the ultra level.
 

moodyred

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Is it just players we are missing? I feel that even messi and Ronaldo in their prime will not be able to help us. That is how disillusion I am with this club.
 

UpWithRivers

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we couldnt even attract Haaland. The one player you would think Ole could bag. All the players and everyone in football can see we are done. Thats not even being negative. Thats a fact. The idea that any top footballer - Sancho, Werner etc will come here is ridiculous. Leicester players - Maddison etc are also a no chance. Why would they move. Then what are we left with? 100 mill for Grealish? Point is yes we have no ambition but even if we did getting the players in will be next to impossible.
 

rollingstoned1

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Mental. Imagine if real industries worked on that principle.

And the most successful club in the history of european football, pretty much changes managers every season. We need to get over this obsession with managers - just get one who does a job. Then once he stops being effective, feck him off and get a new one.
football is different from a standard corporate environment. madrid winning while having a revolving door of managers has more to do with how that club is structured and the constant call for sacking the manager with the first sign that it isn't working is part of the problem of instant gratification. It also owed a lot to a stable core they have who have been there for the best part of a decade much like how chelsea had with Lampard and Terry. yes Madrid have won trophies but they went through an extended dry spell and who's to say that with stability they might have done even better? I'm not saying managers shouldn't be sacked at all but you need to know what you expect from them and why you are sacking them otherwise you're just putting a lot of band aids while knee jerking every few months.
 

Judas

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We're buying no one, its been my feelings for months and another terrible performance won't change that.

The club is rotten from the top right down to the bottom.