He's rich, can he not just retire today?He'll be retired by then.
He's rich, can he not just retire today?He'll be retired by then.
The rich still want to get richer - such is life!He's rich, can he not just retire today?
wow. That would be my tipping pointCould be a defeat to liverpool, defeat to Wolves and out of FA cup and defeat to city in 2nd leg and out of league cup all in January and then we dont sign anyone before window closes
You inferred before a fact was established.You didn't just say you grew up watching United in the 70s though, you implied your knowledge was superior because you'd been to "over 500 games home and away in Europe ". That had no relevance to what the poster had contested and was simply used by you try and imply your support was better than others.
Yeah amol, I try to do the same whether I think it'll end in tears (Moyes & Mourinho) or if I'm not sure they're a fit (LVG) or whether I am caught up in the crest of a wave (Ole's winning run had me believe he was onto something, even though I thought him getting the job midway through that run being a ludicrously hasty decision) but ultimately, there comes a point where you're pretty sure of your opinion and of how things are working out, and from there, something quite stratospheric has to happen to sway you from that line of thought.@Fortitude I think I'm fairly balanced when it comes to this. Before we hire any manager, like everybody, I hold my own views based their prior experience. Once a manager does actually take the reins, I do my best to give him a genuine chance, believe in his 'project' and hope, as lame as that may sound, that this may actually turn out right.
But we are (mostly) adults here. And notions of blind faith & hope and red-tintedness only last so long, and is eventually replaced by an as unbiased/ non coloured an analysis as possible. For me, it's always about the football. How exciting is the football? Are we on route to becoming a cohesive modern football machine? And then obviously how well are we developing players etc And once it becomes apparent that we are not excellent coached and managed then the time had come for the manager to go. It's as simple as that. I dont like feeling that way but it is the way it is. I cannot pointlessly back somebody who is clearly out his depth or a complete misfit.
With Ole I'm well past that point. I watch our games because it's Manchester United and the likes of Martial and Rashford may provide some semblance of entertainment but when the captain steering the ship is mediocre there isnt really any room for hope or excitement. So that's that, United feel a tad dead to me for now. I watch us out of habit and adoration for the crest, but the team does and the way we are coached does nothing for me. I'm just waiting for a regime change and hoping that brings some excellence back as it seems we've given up on it at the present moment.
So your take is purely about results and outcome? What about when faith is lost and in pre-emption of those competitions, someone else is brought in in the hope they can contest for them instead? Which is what most clubs tends to do in terms of saving a season they feel is teetering on the edge of collapse.As long as we're still in the running to meet our aims for the season; top four, EL, FA Cup, League Cup (barely), we can't talk about rock bottom. If we end up out of all the cups, a significant distance from fourth place and still playing like shite that will be rock bottom. Whether we should wait for that before the trigger is pulled on Ole is another matter but for me we're not at rock bottom while there are still things to fight for this season.
Not sure your gist is in line with what I intended as I did specifically state this season and also made it clear in the OP that there is a line in the sand for each managerial reign where a bottoming out period is reached, and, for you, the tenure of said manager/staff/players is over and done with and you're just waiting for the reset button to be pressed for the cycle, with new manager et al, to start anew.If only posters were around circa 1973-1974
Watching us get relegated was the lowest point of my supporting. The high I experienced watching us win the division and start to rebuild made up for it. This is bad but not nearly as bad as that year.
FFS, our leading goal scorers scored 6 apiece!
I didn't say it was everybody's conclusion unless you tend to pretend to speak for others. Also your previous post didn't actually make any logical sense and implied exactly what I wrote, so maybe you couldn't put forth your view properly instead.Its your conclusion that we have the wrong manager - not everybodys feel the same way. Lets see how we are doing we add the 3-4 players that this squad (and manager) desperately needs.
No worries, I'm certainly not saying I'm feeling positive about the club and my faith in Ole, the players and certainly Ed and the Glazers is probably as low as it's been. But we're talking here about rock bottom, as in can't possibly get any lower, and I don't see that being a possibility while we're still (technically) fighting on all fronts and in the hunt for CL qualification through both the league and EL. In terms of that viewpoint being results based and somehow ignoring the problems I'd say I'm certainly worried we're sleepwalking into a disastrous second half of the year, but while we're still in competitions the simple point is it can't be as bad as being out of them.Yeah amol, I try to do the same whether I think it'll end in tears (Moyes & Mourinho) or if I'm not sure they're a fit (LVG) or whether I am caught up in the crest of a wave (Ole's winning run had me believe he was onto something, even though I thought him getting the job midway through that run being a ludicrously hasty decision) but ultimately, there comes a point where you're pretty sure of your opinion and of how things are working out, and from there, something quite stratospheric has to happen to sway you from that line of thought.
I totally agree that until the football is in line with what United is, or should be about, in accordance with how my mind identifies (the managers - a multiple of 2, Ron and Fergie - we had in my formative years were aggressive, attacking and defiant, as were the players they got in) there is an ingrained hesistancy
What concerns me the most with our current predicament is that our coaching staff and manager look completely out of their depth. Personnel is cited a lot on here as the reason why, but that has been countered numerous times by numerous posters who state that even relegation fodder have systems of play; a set of ideas and plans to execute as and when the situations arise. Our only plan is to sit deep and attack the space (as that one poster infamously said, who's name I've forgotten) and once nullified, we really are lost out there. It doesn't bode well and the fact we're now in January and have no identifiable play mechanics to us whatsoever makes the procession feel as hopeless as that first half vs. City was.
So your take is purely about results and outcome? What about when faith is lost and in pre-emption of those competitions, someone else is brought in in the hope they can contest for them instead? Which is what most clubs tends to do in terms of saving a season they feel is teetering on the edge of collapse.
Not a dig, just wondering if what you're saying is a case of locking the door after the horse has bolted, or not?
If what we are is a case of morale and confidence, new manager syndrome probably addresses that.
If it's a case of pure coaching and tactical instruction, a better manager comes in and addresses that.
If it is 'just' squad depletion/woes, a proper January window arrests that.
If it's a case of the last one, then what are we doing - or let me put that another way: are we going to make moves this month and try and and aid this flagging squad? Is the season just to be written off whilst our prospects become slimmer and slimmer, which to me, seems like gross negligence of the highest order as giant clubs don't tend to write seasons off in January(!)
Not sure your gist is in line with what I intended as I did specifically state this season and also made it clear in the OP that there is a line in the sand for each managerial reign where a bottoming out period is reached, and, for you, the tenure of said manager/staff/players is over and done with and you're just waiting for the reset button to be pressed for the cycle, with new manager et al, to start anew.
Pretty much like a relationship reaching its organic end waiting on the final straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back and brings down the shutters.
In terms of 'feeling,' I would say seasons where we've been pipped to titles or lost out in CL or even domestic finals where you're totally emotionally invested in the team and the goings on is very different, and more impactful than seasons where you feel despondent, and eventually, disconnected from the team because they don't match your ideals of what a United player/side/manager should be - the slow malaise into indifference entails a number of phases from anger to sorrow to denial before all those wells run dry and your left not 'caring' as you should because you've already made peace with it.
I don't know what it's like to experience relegation, but watching a footballing institution you've been intrinsically linked to since single digit age slowly but surely being taken apart goes from surreal to something else entirely. I digress as I'm conflating on-field woes with off here, which wasn't the intention.
The old "I'm rubber, you're glue" rebuttal. Cant say I'm surprised based on your responses to others.You inferred before a fact was established.
It had a lot of relevance because the poster stated that I was ‘ stuck ‘ in a 70s time warp and I posted that it was hardly the case. I was addressing him but you’ve become somewhat self righteous and damning of match day fans. It’s as if you feel more knowledgeable than them. You’ve obviously had a bad experience which doesn’t excuse the generalisation.
If anyone is acting the Top Red , I’d say, given your comments, it’s you.
Anyway happy posting and next time you go to OT choose better people to associate with.
I’ve no idea what point you’re trying to make but good luck...The old "I'm rubber, you're glue" rebuttal. Cant say I'm surprised based on your responses to others.
Very true, but even still his yearly salary is more than most of us will see in a lifetime.. So just jog on now Ed you're killing us literally..The rich still want to get richer - such is life!
OK, I see where you're coming from, but do think it a tad ironic as that's what Woodward is slated for on here - giving managers too long when it's clear and apparent things have gone south and the season was/is still salvageable if swift action is taken before rather than after the inevitable plays out.No worries, I'm certainly not saying I'm feeling positive about the club and my faith in Ole, the players and certainly Ed and the Glazers is probably as low as it's been. But we're talking here about rock bottom, as in can't possibly get any lower, and I don't see that being a possibility while we're still (technically) fighting on all fronts and in the hunt for CL qualification through both the league and EL. For me if in two or three months we're out of the EL, way off the pace for top four and still turning in dire performances half the time that will probably be rock bottom, and I'll likely be calling for various heads to roll. Not yet though.
All fair points, but the thread isn't 'Should we make changes to personnel and structures asap to avert a potential disaster in the second half of the season?', it's 'Has this season hit rock bottom for you?' and as I define rock bottom as so low you can't get lower a time when we're still in the running for EL and top four isn't it. As I say I'm very worried rock bottom is coming on swift wings, don't get me wrongOK, I see where you're coming from, but do think it a tad ironic as that's what Woodward is slated for on here - giving managers too long when it's clear and apparent things have gone south and the season was/is still salvageable if swift action is taken before rather than after the inevitable plays out.
This is where we seem to lag behind our contemporaries and look like a reactive rather than proactive club. I, perhaps naively, still believe the season can be turned around either via the January window and/or by ending our association with Ole and co. and getting in a superior coach and his staff. For me, rock bottom isn't specifically about the results, it also comes by way of how they are accrued and the manner in which we've reached that point. Being battered 3-0 in a half isn't the issue for me here, but us looking completely lost out there and then only getting back into the game because they allowed it in the second, is. For me, that's where the sense of foreboding comes from - I genuinely worry that we've being sussed and the gig is up even in terms of sitting deep and trying to hit 'the space' on the counter.
Superior players obviously can turn things around, but when you look at us in that game, was it individual errors (that is to say, if X was there instead of Y, they wouldn't have happened) or was it a collective poorness in our tactical plan and coaching that stuck out like a sore thumb? For me personally, it was more from column B than A, by some distance, and that's why we were so easily carved up time and time again. I watch our drubbings to the last kick of a ball like some kind of masochist usually, but that first half was excruciating for its helplessness and, to me, felt different to a lot of dire performances we've witnessed this season.
Imagine that...Relegation
Ha! Ok, we'll leave it there! If a similar thing happens in the Liverpool game...All fair points, but the thread isn't 'Should we make changes to personnel and structures asap to avert a potential disaster in the second half of the season?', it's 'Has this season hit rock bottom for you?' and as I define rock bottom as so low you can't get lower a time when we're still in the running for EL and top four isn't it. As I say I'm very worried rock bottom is coming on swift wings, don't get me wrong
Here's some other "food for thought": Ole is not Fergie!many fans now are younger and wont remember the bad times in the 70,s and 80,s when we were crap and Liverpool won everything... they will only have known the success through Fergies long long reign. No one has a Devine right to success. You have to earn it...
Fergie came in and changed everything from top to bottom, the youth policies, recruitment, training,, mentality etc etc... he is so missed. We need the next modern day Fergie... but remember it took Fergie a few years to get any success and many chanted Fergie out fergie out for 3 years. .... if the club had bowed down to supporters feelings fergie would have been sacked after 2/3 years and we wouldn’t have had such a glorious period Of success...
Food for thought.
What a delusional post. The run in? You actually think we'll be involved in the run in? We will be double digits outside the top 4 when the run in comes around. Hell, we might be double digits outside the top 4 when the current month ends looking at our schedule. As for Ole being hamstrung by injuries, he is also being hamstrung by his lack of abilities as a manager every bit as much as the injuries.This.
The lesson City gave us a couple of seasons ago at OT was far worse, I don't think we touched the ball for an hour that day, KDB was on a different planet.
Tbh I'm kind of enjoying this season, the squad is paper thin which is hamstringing Ole and the end result will be entirely dependent on staying fit for the run in however when we're on it we've actually played some good stuff and had some good wins I think.
Thanks for spoilers Nostradamus, won't need to watch the remainder of the season now.What a delusional post. The run in? You actually think we'll be involved in the run in? We will be double digits outside the top 4 when the run in comes around. Hell, we might be double digits outside the top 4 when the current month ends looking at our schedule. As for Ole being hamstrung by injuries, he is also being hamstrung by his lack of abilities as a manager every bit as much as the injuries.
Honestly im already numb with this team and have almost lost all interest in the rest of the season at all. Im tired of having a headache/migraine or being filled with rage after watching United.Could be a defeat to liverpool, defeat to Wolves and out of FA cup and defeat to city in 2nd leg and out of league cup all in January and then we dont sign anyone before window closes
Our cycle could turn into a Penny Farthing if we don't watch.success comes in cycles. Making money in the downturn is something United can sustain fortunately. I do think your owners know that, they're treading water imo.
You have hit the nail on the head. Our club has become completely detached from the fans. We don't matter as people any more. Just a source of getting money.The League of Ireland starts next month and I have my Bohs season ticket and honestly I'm looking forward to going and watching proper football from a fan owned club.
I wish this was common knowledge.Honestly im already numb with this team and have almost lost all interest in the rest of the season at all. Im tired of having a headache/migraine or being filled with rage after watching United.
But this comment here would be the last straw for me. Especially the bolded part. No doubt treat the fans like idiots after too with 'no value in the market/ no one that fits' nonsense
And i honestly don't know where we go from here. We've learned the last few seasons, just changing manager simply does not work. The same underlying rotting problems still persist. and lets be totally honest, they arent going anywhere. Its utterly depressing
Very well put.OK, I see where you're coming from, but do think it a tad ironic as that's what Woodward is slated for on here - giving managers too long when it's clear and apparent things have gone south and the season was/is still salvageable if swift action is taken before rather than after the inevitable plays out.
This is where we seem to lag behind our contemporaries and look like a reactive rather than proactive club. I, perhaps naively, still believe the season can be turned around either via the January window and/or by ending our association with Ole and co. and getting in a superior coach and his staff. For me, rock bottom isn't specifically about the results, it also comes by way of how they are accrued and the manner in which we've reached that point. Being battered 3-0 in a half isn't the issue for me here, but us looking completely lost out there and then only getting back into the game because they allowed it in the second, is. For me, that's where the sense of foreboding comes from - I genuinely worry that we've being sussed and the gig is up even in terms of sitting deep and trying to hit 'the space' on the counter.
Superior players obviously can turn things around, but when you look at us in that game, was it individual errors (that is to say, if X was there instead of Y, they wouldn't have happened) or was it a collective poorness in our tactical plan and coaching that stuck out like a sore thumb? For me personally, it was more from column B than A, by some distance, and that's why we were so easily carved up time and time again. I watch our drubbings to the last kick of a ball like some kind of masochist usually, but that first half was excruciating for its helplessness and, to me, felt different to a lot of dire performances we've witnessed this season.
What’s this got to do with the OP?Think
Very well put.
Unfortunately we have a core of fans that are also reactive. The constant talk of patience is indicative of this.
Tuesday night really did highlight the gulf in class in terms of playing staff and managerial staff. The first half was a tactical masterclass from Pep and we were very lucky City took their foot off the gas in the second half as it could have easily been 5,6 or 7 nil.
Pep adapted to our tactics from the previous game and completely nullified our attack. I highly doubt we'll see such a tactical switch from our manager in three weeks.
Ole did a halftime change which completely nullified the overloading at midfield and made us look the better team in second half, but he won't be able to make the switch in the future? City used same tactic last season in 2 games AFAIR, one of them was vs Chelsea that they won 6-0 or 5-0, however Sarri didn't make any proper changes and counter that. Means Ole is better than Sarri from one game?Pep adapted to our tactics from the previous game and completely nullified our attack. I highly doubt we'll see such a tactical switch from our manager in three weeks.
Yeah that's my rock bottom I would think. For all our "travails", our plight compared to other teams isn't that dramatic. Relegation would be a new reality entirely.Imagine that...