He's rich, can he not just retire today?
Has this season hit rock bottom for you yet? If no, what, in particular, will be the final nails in the coffin?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
Hitting rock bottom: Offering Lingard and Jones contracts for life.
Final nails in coffin: Both rejecting the offers and signing at pay cut at Luton Town or Barnsley.
Final nails in coffin: Both rejecting the offers and signing at pay cut at Luton Town or Barnsley.
The rich still want to get richer - such is life!He's rich, can he not just retire today?
Some ridiculous top red dick swinging going on in here.
It doesn't matter if you're a fan of a top club or minnow rock bottom usually comes when you no longer believe in the direction of the club or the man at the helm. Fans have been given plenty of reason to no longer blindly believe.
When the anger at conceding turns to laughing at the predictability that's a huge signal of rock bottom for me. It happened with Moyes and I'm at that point with Ole.
There's a weird criteria I'm seeing from the Ole in lot that a fans worth is based on how much they believe. That sounds like a cult.
It doesn't matter if you're a fan of a top club or minnow rock bottom usually comes when you no longer believe in the direction of the club or the man at the helm. Fans have been given plenty of reason to no longer blindly believe.
When the anger at conceding turns to laughing at the predictability that's a huge signal of rock bottom for me. It happened with Moyes and I'm at that point with Ole.
There's a weird criteria I'm seeing from the Ole in lot that a fans worth is based on how much they believe. That sounds like a cult.
wow. That would be my tipping point
You inferred before a fact was established.
It had a lot of relevance because the poster stated that I was ‘ stuck ‘ in a 70s time warp and I posted that it was hardly the case. I was addressing him but you’ve become somewhat self righteous and damning of match day fans. It’s as if you feel more knowledgeable than them. You’ve obviously had a bad experience which doesn’t excuse the generalisation.
If anyone is acting the Top Red , I’d say, given your comments, it’s you.
Anyway happy posting and next time you go to OT choose better people to associate with.
Yeah amol, I try to do the same whether I think it'll end in tears (Moyes & Mourinho) or if I'm not sure they're a fit (LVG) or whether I am caught up in the crest of a wave (Ole's winning run had me believe he was onto something, even though I thought him getting the job midway through that run being a ludicrously hasty decision) but ultimately, there comes a point where you're pretty sure of your opinion and of how things are working out, and from there, something quite stratospheric has to happen to sway you from that line of thought.
I totally agree that until the football is in line with what United is, or should be about, in accordance with how my mind identifies (the managers - a multiple of 2, Ron and Fergie - we had in my formative years were aggressive, attacking and defiant, as were the players they got in) there is an ingrained hesistancy
What concerns me the most with our current predicament is that our coaching staff and manager look completely out of their depth. Personnel is cited a lot on here as the reason why, but that has been countered numerous times by numerous posters who state that even relegation fodder have systems of play; a set of ideas and plans to execute as and when the situations arise. Our only plan is to sit deep and attack the space (as that one poster infamously said, who's name I've forgotten) and once nullified, we really are lost out there. It doesn't bode well and the fact we're now in January and have no identifiable play mechanics to us whatsoever makes the procession feel as hopeless as that first half vs. City was.
So your take is purely about results and outcome? What about when faith is lost and in pre-emption of those competitions, someone else is brought in in the hope they can contest for them instead? Which is what most clubs tends to do in terms of saving a season they feel is teetering on the edge of collapse.
Not a dig, just wondering if what you're saying is a case of locking the door after the horse has bolted, or not?
If what we are is a case of morale and confidence, new manager syndrome probably addresses that.
If it's a case of pure coaching and tactical instruction, a better manager comes in and addresses that.
If it is 'just' squad depletion/woes, a proper January window arrests that.
If it's a case of the last one, then what are we doing - or let me put that another way: are we going to make moves this month and try and and aid this flagging squad? Is the season just to be written off whilst our prospects become slimmer and slimmer, which to me, seems like gross negligence of the highest order as giant clubs don't tend to write seasons off in January(!)
Not sure your gist is in line with what I intended as I did specifically state this season and also made it clear in the OP that there is a line in the sand for each managerial reign where a bottoming out period is reached, and, for you, the tenure of said manager/staff/players is over and done with and you're just waiting for the reset button to be pressed for the cycle, with new manager et al, to start anew.
Pretty much like a relationship reaching its organic end waiting on the final straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back and brings down the shutters.
In terms of 'feeling,' I would say seasons where we've been pipped to titles or lost out in CL or even domestic finals where you're totally emotionally invested in the team and the goings on is very different, and more impactful than seasons where you feel despondent, and eventually, disconnected from the team because they don't match your ideals of what a United player/side/manager should be - the slow malaise into indifference entails a number of phases from anger to sorrow to denial before all those wells run dry and your left not 'caring' as you should because you've already made peace with it.
I don't know what it's like to experience relegation, but watching a footballing institution you've been intrinsically linked to since single digit age slowly but surely being taken apart goes from surreal to something else entirely. I digress as I'm conflating on-field woes with off here, which wasn't the intention.
I didn't say it was everybody's conclusion unless you tend to pretend to speak for others. Also your previous post didn't actually make any logical sense and implied exactly what I wrote, so maybe you couldn't put forth your view properly instead.
Coming on to your actual view, if it's 'far from impossible' that we can win the league /return to glory days under Ole, I imagine you genuinely believe in him as opposed to the sitting on the fence you've done in the quoted post?
Seeing City and Liverpool dominating English football is painful for all us supporters and I am pretty sure for Ole too. Unfortunately, the people in charge, Glazers/Woodward , don`t give a feck about it as long as they`re still making money.
I haven`t been to Old Trafford to watch a competitive game since SAF retired, the only time I have been since then was Rooneys testimonial, and I won`t go until the parasites have gone as I refuse to put any money in their pockets. The sight of people piling into the megastore all starry eyed buying United tat then sat in the stands taking selfies with very little interest in the match makes me feckin sick.
We are nowhere near rock bottom yet though, it will get worse.
I haven`t been to Old Trafford to watch a competitive game since SAF retired, the only time I have been since then was Rooneys testimonial, and I won`t go until the parasites have gone as I refuse to put any money in their pockets. The sight of people piling into the megastore all starry eyed buying United tat then sat in the stands taking selfies with very little interest in the match makes me feckin sick.
We are nowhere near rock bottom yet though, it will get worse.
No worries, I'm certainly not saying I'm feeling positive about the club and my faith in Ole, the players and certainly Ed and the Glazers is probably as low as it's been. But we're talking here about rock bottom, as in can't possibly get any lower, and I don't see that being a possibility while we're still (technically) fighting on all fronts and in the hunt for CL qualification through both the league and EL. In terms of that viewpoint being results based and somehow ignoring the problems I'd say I'm certainly worried we're sleepwalking into a disastrous second half of the year, but while we're still in competitions the simple point is it can't be as bad as being out of them.
For me if in two or three months we're out of the EL, way off the pace for top four and still turning in dire performances half the time that will be rock bottom for this season, and I'll likely be screaming, not just calling, for various heads to roll. Not yet though.
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We're in the transfer window and we've just recalled Borthwick-Jackson because we're about to lose Ashley Young to Inter... a club where 2 of our strikers from last season are also playing leaving us with zero options up top which we definitely won't be rectifying this January btw.
Yes this is rock bottom.
Yes this is rock bottom.
The old "I'm rubber, you're glue" rebuttal. Cant say I'm surprised based on your responses to others.
I’ve no idea what point you’re trying to make but good luck...
I don’t think we’ve reached rock bottom yet. After all we’re still in the hunt for top 4 somehow!
I think Ole is probably safe until such a time as even qualifying for the Europa is looking unlikely. When we can’t even qualify for that, and we’re replacing Pogba with the likes of Longstaff, that’s when we’re at rock bottom.
I think Ole is probably safe until such a time as even qualifying for the Europa is looking unlikely. When we can’t even qualify for that, and we’re replacing Pogba with the likes of Longstaff, that’s when we’re at rock bottom.
Very true, but even still his yearly salary is more than most of us will see in a lifetime.. So just jog on now Ed you're killing us literally..
OK, I see where you're coming from, but do think it a tad ironic as that's what Woodward is slated for on here - giving managers too long when it's clear and apparent things have gone south and the season was/is still salvageable if swift action is taken before rather than after the inevitable plays out.
This is where we seem to lag behind our contemporaries and look like a reactive rather than proactive club. I, perhaps naively, still believe the season can be turned around either via the January window and/or by ending our association with Ole and co. and getting in a superior coach and his staff. For me, rock bottom isn't specifically about the results, it also comes by way of how they are accrued and the manner in which we've reached that point. Being battered 3-0 in a half isn't the issue for me here, but us looking completely lost out there and then only getting back into the game because they allowed it in the second, is. For me, that's where the sense of foreboding comes from - I genuinely worry that we've being sussed and the gig is up even in terms of sitting deep and trying to hit 'the space' on the counter.
Superior players obviously can turn things around, but when you look at us in that game, was it individual errors (that is to say, if X was there instead of Y, they wouldn't have happened) or was it a collective poorness in our tactical plan and coaching that stuck out like a sore thumb? For me personally, it was more from column B than A, by some distance, and that's why we were so easily carved up time and time again. I watch our drubbings to the last kick of a ball like some kind of masochist usually, but that first half was excruciating for its helplessness and, to me, felt different to a lot of dire performances we've witnessed this season.
Relegation
All fair points, but the thread isn't 'Should we make changes to personnel and structures asap to avert a potential disaster in the second half of the season?', it's 'Has this season hit rock bottom for you?' and as I define rock bottom as so low you can't get lower a time when we're still in the running for EL and top four isn't it. As I say I'm very worried rock bottom is coming on swift wings, don't get me wrong
Imagine that...
When it becomes clear top 4 is pipedream. That is rock bottom. It may be sooner than we think. I was going to list the players that we need to get rid of, but it will be quicker to list the ones we need to keep.
Ha! Ok, we'll leave it there! If a similar thing happens in the Liverpool game...All fair points, but the thread isn't 'Should we make changes to personnel and structures asap to avert a potential disaster in the second half of the season?', it's 'Has this season hit rock bottom for you?' and as I define rock bottom as so low you can't get lower a time when we're still in the running for EL and top four isn't it. As I say I'm very worried rock bottom is coming on swift wings, don't get me wrong
Here's some other "food for thought": Ole is not Fergie!
"How to Ruin a Club in Eight Years"
C'mon. Most of us saw it coming.
What a mess. What a mess.
What an historic failure.
C'mon. Most of us saw it coming.
What a mess. What a mess.
What an historic failure.
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What a delusional post. The run in? You actually think we'll be involved in the run in? We will be double digits outside the top 4 when the run in comes around. Hell, we might be double digits outside the top 4 when the current month ends looking at our schedule. As for Ole being hamstrung by injuries, he is also being hamstrung by his lack of abilities as a manager every bit as much as the injuries.
success comes in cycles. Making money in the downturn is something United can sustain fortunately. I do think your owners know that, they're treading water imo.
Thanks for spoilers Nostradamus, won't need to watch the remainder of the season now.
Delusional to think we'll be in TOP4 run when we are higher in form table than all main competition and 5 points from 4th, with best players coming to squad in 3-4 weeks. lmfao
Honestly im already numb with this team and have almost lost all interest in the rest of the season at all. Im tired of having a headache/migraine or being filled with rage after watching United.
But this comment here would be the last straw for me. Especially the bolded part. No doubt treat the fans like idiots after too with 'no value in the market/ no one that fits' nonsense
And i honestly don't know where we go from here. We've learned the last few seasons, just changing manager simply does not work. The same underlying rotting problems still persist. and lets be totally honest, they arent going anywhere. Its utterly depressing
The League of Ireland starts next month and I have my Bohs season ticket and honestly I'm looking forward to going and watching proper football from a fan owned club.
Our cycle could turn into a Penny Farthing if we don't watch.
You have hit the nail on the head. Our club has become completely detached from the fans. We don't matter as people any more. Just a source of getting money.
I wish this was common knowledge.
Seriously what were you all expecting before the season? I fail to see the logic on how someone can realistically expect this squad to be anywhere higher than we are now and believe that Woodward and co should be disappointed in the current results.
We've brought in Ole to rebuild a squad from scratch, which is obviously not one or two years plan. He has stated that we will see results at 2022-23 season already last season, nothing changes, there's no quick fix that does along with long-term plan. We have youngest XI week after week, let all our players who aren't planned to be here long-term go and giving youth chance. We're building a quick counter-attacking team which is the only tactic that works against current best teams in the world (PSG, Real Madrid, Barcelona and City) and if equipped with depth and quality in midfield, will be deadly. Nearly all our players are few seasons from reaching their potential, everyone knew before the season we will be inconsistent, it's not a surprise. We've also had Pogba out nearly all season and please remember how our team looked in past few seasons with him being out. We were absolutely dreadful.
What solutions would y'all like? Should we keep aging players who aren't giving their 100% just to have a better chance at top4, instead of giving time to youth? We did that for 5 years already, where did it take us?
As the saying goes - you don't need enemies when you have friends like that. Putting pressure on all players and manager, beating them while they are down and then wonder why everyone can't make simple passes on the pitch when they are under such pressure from so-called "fans" each game. No wonder players flourish when they move from United and even top class players like Lukaku aren't afraid to admit all this pressure screw him up.
On other note people actually believe the earth is flat, vote for Trump and don't believe in global warming, so I shouldn't be surprised by any kind of idiocy anymore, yet some comments here tops that.
We've brought in Ole to rebuild a squad from scratch, which is obviously not one or two years plan. He has stated that we will see results at 2022-23 season already last season, nothing changes, there's no quick fix that does along with long-term plan. We have youngest XI week after week, let all our players who aren't planned to be here long-term go and giving youth chance. We're building a quick counter-attacking team which is the only tactic that works against current best teams in the world (PSG, Real Madrid, Barcelona and City) and if equipped with depth and quality in midfield, will be deadly. Nearly all our players are few seasons from reaching their potential, everyone knew before the season we will be inconsistent, it's not a surprise. We've also had Pogba out nearly all season and please remember how our team looked in past few seasons with him being out. We were absolutely dreadful.
What solutions would y'all like? Should we keep aging players who aren't giving their 100% just to have a better chance at top4, instead of giving time to youth? We did that for 5 years already, where did it take us?
As the saying goes - you don't need enemies when you have friends like that. Putting pressure on all players and manager, beating them while they are down and then wonder why everyone can't make simple passes on the pitch when they are under such pressure from so-called "fans" each game. No wonder players flourish when they move from United and even top class players like Lukaku aren't afraid to admit all this pressure screw him up.
On other note people actually believe the earth is flat, vote for Trump and don't believe in global warming, so I shouldn't be surprised by any kind of idiocy anymore, yet some comments here tops that.
Very well put.
Unfortunately we have a core of fans that are also reactive. The constant talk of patience is indicative of this.
Tuesday night really did highlight the gulf in class in terms of playing staff and managerial staff. The first half was a tactical masterclass from Pep and we were very lucky City took their foot off the gas in the second half as it could have easily been 5,6 or 7 nil.
Pep adapted to our tactics from the previous game and completely nullified our attack. I highly doubt we'll see such a tactical switch from our manager in three weeks.
What’s this got to do with the OP?
Everything you’ve stated is pretty much what was said in the post match thread.
If offering contract to Young is true, then rock bottom should be at least in our sight.
A few more injuries - DDG, Young, Mata.
Draw Norwich
Lose on Pens to Wolves
Turn Sky on 4.25 a week on Sunday to see Phil Jones leading the team out at Anfield.....................
Draw Norwich
Lose on Pens to Wolves
Turn Sky on 4.25 a week on Sunday to see Phil Jones leading the team out at Anfield.....................
Ole did a halftime change which completely nullified the overloading at midfield and made us look the better team in second half, but he won't be able to make the switch in the future? City used same tactic last season in 2 games AFAIR, one of them was vs Chelsea that they won 6-0 or 5-0, however Sarri didn't make any proper changes and counter that. Means Ole is better than Sarri from one game?
The same change was called "idiotic" by everyone from Ole out brigade in half time and after full time, the same people were asking why Ole isn't playing Matic all the time. And you call Ole supporting fans reactive, not proactive? Get a grip.
Also, mind that City scored a wonder goal from nowhere when United was the better team or at least as good as City until then. If you have any coaching or playing experience you will know that young players can react badly to that and they did, unfortunately. If you are weaker side and lose psychological advantage, you don't have much of a chance.
Let's add that Ole outclassed Pep at first h2h match with far weaker side.
However that all means nothing because Pep did actually bring good tactics for one half? Whatever fits your agenda I guess
We have hit the rock-bottom already... The club has been run by the board and Ed like a third world country. Spending ludicrously on shady and expensive deals, when they don't work out because of the incompetency and lack of foresightedness of those at the helm, doing a populist stunt by putting a popular figure in-charge, who is a puppet but good at sweet talking, to appease the masses and pretending as if he will steady the sinking ship and bring back the glory days. Applying austerity measures at the expense of fans without cutting back on perks and rewards those at the top enjoy.
Yeah that's my rock bottom I would think. For all our "travails", our plight compared to other teams isn't that dramatic. Relegation would be a new reality entirely.
Nothing this season could be as rock bottom as Mourinho at Anfield last season. To go to Liverpool and show less ambition to score than a minnow in the FA Cup would was utterly embarrassing.