Fred has consistently been our best midfielder since the 3-1 against Brighton in November.
McTominay is the key!
- Thread starter devips
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Every one has their opinion on his quality but in my opinion he is integral to ensuring we play of the front foot and allowing the other players to play well.
He performs the role Keane did late on, or Fletcher in big games. The same role Henderson plays for Liverpool.
He is my favourite player and I'd love if he was in a midfield three with Van De Beek/Hwang & Pogba/Soumare .
People are also highly critical of a player that is young and so far from his peak, that is already showing he is a leader, with the right mentality and helps us play so much better.
He performs the role Keane did late on, or Fletcher in big games. The same role Henderson plays for Liverpool.
He is my favourite player and I'd love if he was in a midfield three with Van De Beek/Hwang & Pogba/Soumare .
People are also highly critical of a player that is young and so far from his peak, that is already showing he is a leader, with the right mentality and helps us play so much better.
People was against Fletcher even when we won big things. Sadly these types of players that improve the team rather than make flashy moves will never be liked by fans enough. Today it is about who scores the goals in most peoples heads.
And when he plays against bad teams we lose. This loving for Mctominay just shows how far we have fallin as a club. Adoring bang average players because they are youth products and run alot.
If we bought him from somewhere else or he came in and immediately started showing his quality with mourinho, i think people would have been alot more accepting. For certain players, they can ride the excuse of being young till their in their mid 20s, yet somehow 22 year old Mctominay needs to be perfect right now. He has shown a lot of the talent that some of the younger defensive midfielders that we keep getting linked with have shown or even moreso. The problem is, and its the same thing they initially did with Pogba, fans seem to expect a midfielder to do everything. We essentially got handed the combative player that we were all crying for to complement carrick, now we need a carrick to complement mctominay, its soo frustrating.
Mctominay should not be a key player for us, as defensively inclined players usually are not for teams who are supposed to be attacking. It has nothing to do with lack of quality in him, but rather in the lack of consistency, health and quality in the other members of our front 6. We have some good pieces in the squad. DDG, AWB, MacGuire, McT, Pogba and Rashford, but we need more consistency from other positions to truly be a challenging team. I did not mention Martial as he has to show consistent quality to be regarded as such, which he has not throughout his united career.
Our attacking midfield position, the most important position in our attack, is completely void of any positive quality. Since our wide positions are held by inside forwards, it is important to have players in midfield that can create chances for our forwards. It is not a coincidence that in the 6 years since Sir Alex left, we performed at our best when both Pogba and Mhikitaryan were occupying our creative midfield positions. We need to have an approximate level of creativity in those positions to truly highlight the qualities we have in attack and defence.
he is not better than Fred. He is basically suffering from having low expectations and surpassing those expectations
No way is McTomminay the key to our future. He’s not good enough in possession for one. Mediocre at best on the ball and better chasing it. City have a few far better options than McTomminay in midfield.
I rate him as a decent footballer but those saying him and Fred are a quality midfield partnership over a full season are missing the point.
Fred is the best of the two but neither is a playmaker. How are we supposed to control games? Our midfield options are part of the reason we can’t break sides down or stretch the opposition. It’s all very basic safe passing that isn’t press resistant.
The aim should be to have the ability to pass more not run more than the opposition.
I rate him as a decent footballer but those saying him and Fred are a quality midfield partnership over a full season are missing the point.
Fred is the best of the two but neither is a playmaker. How are we supposed to control games? Our midfield options are part of the reason we can’t break sides down or stretch the opposition. It’s all very basic safe passing that isn’t press resistant.
The aim should be to have the ability to pass more not run more than the opposition.
If you look at the table, all the teams at the top have very good midfields, in quality and depth. Liverpool, Leicester, Man City, Chelsea. Once we get to around 5th with Man Utd, Spurs, Wolves, Sheffield, Arsenal, the midfielders become slightly more average.
I think we're at that above-average level of midfield without Pogba. Meaning Scott is most likely an above-average midfielder, who can potentially be part of a very good midfield unit, or midfield depth. But probably not the absolute key. If we want to climb up the table, we need more quality and more depth in that area; that's inevitable.
I think we're at that above-average level of midfield without Pogba. Meaning Scott is most likely an above-average midfielder, who can potentially be part of a very good midfield unit, or midfield depth. But probably not the absolute key. If we want to climb up the table, we need more quality and more depth in that area; that's inevitable.
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He improved a bit and it's something happening not so often recently and yes, he was the key also because we have no one better in one of the most neglected formation since Carrick and Scholes retired.
Shame we didin't have him at this age when we were about to sign Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin.
The lad has fantastic attitude and perhaps with help of Michael Carrick who's there everyday, he can improve his decision making even further.
Shame we didin't have him at this age when we were about to sign Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin.
The lad has fantastic attitude and perhaps with help of Michael Carrick who's there everyday, he can improve his decision making even further.
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And in your own words, what role is that?
They tend to be the players to set the tempo, to be the legs in midfield, to break up the play and help play on the front foot. They allow the players around them to worry less about their defensive duties.
I think if you played a traditional two man midfield they would be along side a good ball playing CM like Scholes, Pirlo, etc.
I don’t think you can ‘set the tempo’ without the ball. In fact, the ‘other’ player you describe in your traditional two man midfield sets the tempo for me, and is typically the more difficult to find and replace of the two. That said, both roles are of course very important. A team needs to be able to play without the ball as well as with it.
There’s also a massive spectrum amongst this player you describe too. For instance, Keane, Fletcher, Henderson and McTominay do not all belong in the same sentence at all. Keane was possibly the best player in a star-studded team, and was wanted by every top club in Europe. The others, well, are/were not. Being a ‘Kante-type’ player doesn’t make them all Kante class.
Keane was a great passer and actually able to be a secondary playmaker, as you say he has no business being mentioned with the others. The others are lite Gattusos.
Sad state...
Imagine if 6 years ago they told you that an academy lad will lead the midfield and become key player for United.
(Not because of he's good but because we're bad)
Imagine if 6 years ago they told you that an academy lad will lead the midfield and become key player for United.
(Not because of he's good but because we're bad)
"FORMER Man Utd defender Paul Parker has labelled Scott McTominay as a “modern-day Robbie Savage” as he claimed the Red Devils need better quality players.
He told Eurosport: “Scott McTominay is a good example of the problem.He just runs around trying to kick people, thumping the badge. He’s like a modern-day Robbie Savage. You need more than that.
“If people are saying United are missing McTominay, they’re not really Man United fans. The reason he’s out injured is because he tried to kick someone and hurt himself.
“If that’s what people think United are, then they weren’t around for the good times.
“Every time Solskjaer looks at what his midfield’s going to be – well, let's just say I’m just surprised he’s not gone bald already because it must paralyse his brain that there is no midfield at all at United.
“Whatever he puts out there, there’s absolutely no guarantee it’s going to work. If you’re playing up front, you know that you’re not going to get the ball.
“If you’re in defence, you know that the ball’s going to come straight back. The midfield is the problem at United. They have absolutely no middle ground.”
I make no comment myself - I am not a paid pundit, unlike PP. But I'd be interested in what the forum thinks about this? Especaily the last two paragraphs.
He told Eurosport: “Scott McTominay is a good example of the problem.He just runs around trying to kick people, thumping the badge. He’s like a modern-day Robbie Savage. You need more than that.
“If people are saying United are missing McTominay, they’re not really Man United fans. The reason he’s out injured is because he tried to kick someone and hurt himself.
“If that’s what people think United are, then they weren’t around for the good times.
“Every time Solskjaer looks at what his midfield’s going to be – well, let's just say I’m just surprised he’s not gone bald already because it must paralyse his brain that there is no midfield at all at United.
“Whatever he puts out there, there’s absolutely no guarantee it’s going to work. If you’re playing up front, you know that you’re not going to get the ball.
“If you’re in defence, you know that the ball’s going to come straight back. The midfield is the problem at United. They have absolutely no middle ground.”
I make no comment myself - I am not a paid pundit, unlike PP. But I'd be interested in what the forum thinks about this? Especaily the last two paragraphs.
I think some of our fanbase underrate Roy Keane. One of the greatest midfielders ever and possibly the best midfielder we've ever had.
He reached a higher level of influence than Scholes for me at our club during his peak. Best player on the pitch in one of our most succesful periods and McTomminay will never get close to his level. The only current Premier League midfielder who is better than Keane is De Bruyne I think.
The second paragraph is laughable. Total disrespect for a young player who is still maturing as a player and doing very well.
The last couple of paragraphs are true but Parker needs to wind his neck in.
Another one for the folder about stupid Paul Parker opinions.
A lot of people seem to rate players just in terms of their technical ability, and passion is derided as mambo jambo nonsense.
Character does account for something, and it can be contagious. Determination and a positive attitude can go a long way. If it was just about flicks, dribbles and Hollywood passes, then he'd fall short. But he brings other qualities to the team that some of the others lack. You'll never catch him strolling around the midfield when we're chasing a game, or dropping his head and watching an opposition player take the ball from him and run off with it.
Character does account for something, and it can be contagious. Determination and a positive attitude can go a long way. If it was just about flicks, dribbles and Hollywood passes, then he'd fall short. But he brings other qualities to the team that some of the others lack. You'll never catch him strolling around the midfield when we're chasing a game, or dropping his head and watching an opposition player take the ball from him and run off with it.
We had a similiar thread when Martial was injured. All players playing in positions without adequate cover would be seen as key if they were injured. Its a question of squad depth - lose one player, any player and we are screwed.
Feeling depressed thinking there is a possibility where Mctominay is actually key to our performances. Cant be true though. Im probably overthinking too much.
Notice I specifically said Keane in his later years. His role adapted and was much more like the role Henderson and McTominay provide the team later on. It is not a reflection of quality is it?!
You would say Maguire plays the same role as VVD, it is not suggesting their of the same quality.
Keane in his early years played further forward and created more, scored more and contributed in the build up much more. That changed. He is also my favourite United player ever alongside Scholes.
I get why you think the likes of Scholes and Pirlo dictate the tempo but as you said you can't dictate the tempo without the ball. The likes of McTominay and Henderson WIN the ball, which ultimately helps set the tempo. Without that player you allow the other team to dictate play and set the tempo as you aren't winning the ball back quick enough or breaking up play to play on the front foot.
I also agree the ball playing midfielder is harder to replace, that doesn't mean McTominay isn't important for us, because he is the one the breaks things up. For that reason I think he is one to stay and play that role, we don't need to worry about that position/role.
I specifically avoided making it about quality or class of player.
Bryan Robson is the greatest midfield player this club has had since 1980. Carried off the pitch by the fans twice, carried the club for 10 years. Rejected moves to juve and the reds in Merseyside, and made Keane look like a baby when he went into tackles. Vinny Jones and John Fashanu said there was one player they never dreemed of roughing up or messing with..... he kicked vinny jones once so hard he was limping for 10 minutes shaking it off and it was in retribution for jones kicking one of our youngers. Keane protected his boys the same.
Players we’re scared of Keane but they respected Robson. He shouted more than Keane but when necessary. He scored 99 goals for us. Longest serving Captain (I’m unsure of this one but think I’m right) broke every bone still made over 400 appearances for the greatest club in the world (his words)
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fecking hell.
can’t think of another top European club where such a poor player would be key.
can’t think of another top European club where such a poor player would be key.
Scotty I saw not the key to the future that isn’t the point, currently he’s the hardest working midfielder we have, he’s scored a few goals and deserves to stay. I don’t think my last post should be taken as me saying he is the starting future (you never know he might kick on) but he is putting more out there for us on the pitch than any of them excluding Fred who is finally geting to grips with the pace of the prem. we do need two midfielders but get the rotten core out. Pogba and Lings, the party media boys must go. We need the same team ethics we had under Keane and Robson and bring back the medieval times as ole calls it
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Whilst not great to read, I love PP, he was a great right back and was one of the final pieces of the prem winning team jigsaw. Please bear that in mind when some are slaughtering him
Is this just another boring post to regurgitate that we aren't very good at the moment?
McTominay is one of our most important players at the moment in my opinion(which is the debate). Everyone knows he shouldn't be.
Then how exactly is he the ‘key’ then? He shouldn’t even be a starting player for us, and that is him, at his current best, under ideal circumstances. What if I said ‘Pereira is the key’, because he’s currently our best option at #10?
In english football, this is absolutely true. He is a excellent squad depth player that can step in and put in a great performance. I really like Scott, he needs better quality around him in order for him to develop and stick to his vital role in the squad.
Yeah agree. Like with both Liverpool and us under SAF we had multiple options in midfield. If more creativity was needed we played with Scholes, Carrick, Giggs etc. When we needed someone to battle it out in big games we used Fletcher and even Anderson when he was good.
Normally the Key in these two types of games.
- Big games = vs top lvl teams
- Important games (= high profile/pressure games, cups and forms related eg. on a bad form run of games and we need to turn things around)
Mctominay is young, he's hungry, he is passionate, he is an excellent midfield enforcer which every great team need. This team need some guts and if we had a couple more players of his mindset we would be in a better place. I remember folk sagging of lampard at the start of his career.............. Look how that worked out. Belive in him and believe he will improve and we could have a top class midfielder there. It's not a coincidence that Jose and ole find him almost undropable.
‘Young, hungry, passionate’ should all be disregarded, they are just words used to pad out a ‘list’ of qualities. Every team needs character, that is true. You shouldn’t be getting into a top side on character though. City’s players don’t lack balls and work rate and all of their midfielders are three times as good as McTominay, which is the bar we have to meet.
The character is just being highlighted because it’s the one outstanding quality. He doesn’t have more character than De Bruyne. Just that nobody keeps banging on about KdB’s attitude. He has passing and shooting we can talk about instead.
You say ‘this team needs some guts’ - I’d say that’s pretty much all we have. It’s the quality that is lacking. Ole has made sure the team is ‘brave’, ‘hungry’, ‘want to improve’, ‘young’ - our problem lies in the unfortunate fact that our footballers are not that good. Generally speaking, they are all brave lads. Beyond that, we’ve yet to see much class in the side. That will improve as the quality of footballer improves. Scott McTominay should never have been allowed to unimpress his way through his United academy career, and then just walk into the first XI at 21 and be an automatic pick week in week out. We need to have some form of higher standard than that. He should at best be made to come up under some senior top pros and understudied, not given a by into the XI as a kid, a kid that was not even an outstanding kid, on the basis that we have nobody else. Who let it get to that?
For what it’s worth, the kid has done incredibly well in terms of what can be reasonably expected of him. It’s just that there is a disparity between what is expected of him and what is expected from us.
As a matter of fact, we may have a squad of 25 or more players, in reality we only have a squad of 18-19. Missing any of Martial, McTom, Maguire, we are doom. I still don't understand the rationale behind loaning out Smalling, our only usable CB, meanwhile Jones and Rojo are hardly used even when fit and available.
Feel sorry for Scott. He’s what I would call a managers dream. If you want him to kick lumps out Of a player he will. If you want him to do a tactical job on a player like mark Hazard out of a game he would.
Only problem is we currently just employ crappy tactics. If the team improves in style he will improve. Can guarantee it.
Only problem is we currently just employ crappy tactics. If the team improves in style he will improve. Can guarantee it.
cmon not bale, no that isn’t the future either
Scott stays. It’s simple. We have no one who puts Scott’s effort and work rate in and Fred is only just starting to find his feet. He’s catching up with Carricks goal tally pretty quickly as well. He can tackle and in my opinion ‘can’ become a very useful holding CM
Sorry this team has no guts. I’m unsure which generation you’re from but I find that comment to be completely incorrect. If you think this team has guts you may want to watch united teams from the past with less talent than this squad, but who made up for it with guts and effort everywhere in the pitch (during early to mid eighties) We’re not very good, we don’t make up for it by having guts and we have a manager who keeps smiling from and through one embarrassment to another.
Scott stays. It’s simple. We have no one who puts Scott’s effort and work rate in and Fred is only just starting to find his feet. He’s catching up with Carricks goal tally pretty quickly as well. He can tackle and in my opinion ‘can’ become a very useful holding CM
The part in bold reminded me of one of Kenny Rogers' songs: "You picked a fine time to leave me, Lucille"
But unlike Lucille and her man, no reason to think McTom wouldn't come back to us
Maybe we should buy or play other midfielders with complementary skills. It will be nice for him to improve his passing but even in the great days with SAF all of our midfielders were not great passers of the ball. I don't rate Liverpool's Henderson above McT but the former has been an integral part of a brilliant Liverpool. If we had top quality in the no 10 a top CM to supplement Fred and McT, good attacking fullbacks and a quality winger - preferably one who can play on both sides - we wouldn't be focussing much on McT weaknesses.
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