Mike's Sheep Draft R1 - Zlatan vs. Pnut

[Michaelf7777777]

Zlatan Tactics

I’m going for a 442.

2 hard working wingers in bale and becks, both willing to track back, put a shift in and both can put in some amazing crosses that MVB will head in for fun.

Cantona uptop with MVB will be able to drop off and spread the play or use his little flicks to find MVB.

Again, 2 hard working midfielders, Dunga staying back more and being the wall in front of the defence, allowing seedorf to venture forward when the space opens up for him.

Two full backs with world cup pedigree, Rojo a bit hasty in the tackle but never one to shy away from the challenge, Gambetta winning it while making the team of the tournament. Both fullbacks will support the wingers.

Hierro and manolas suit each other well, Manolas a strong leader and stopper will allow hierro to play out with the ball.

Aaaand if you do get past those, Barthez in goals, a cat of a shot stopper which isn’t always needed if his fake offside claims are believed.

Pnut Tactics

Narrow 442 diamond

Defence

Standard solid back 4 set up. 2 of England's greatest ever full backs with the legendary Ferrara playing alongside De Felipe.

Midfield

O'Shea plays at the base of the diamond, utilising his ability to play any defensive position, he can shuffle back or out wide to help where needed.

Henderson and Miramontes partnership with Henderson being the obviously more defensive and Miramontes being the more attack minded playmaker of the duo.

Zidane has free reign behind 2 mobile strikers to do his thing.

Attack

Larsson will drift across the front line adding width when required, but mainly linking up with Lineker and Zidane

Lineker will constantly be looking to get beyond the back line and profit from the creative players around him.

 

[Michaelf7777777]

@Zlatan 7 @P-Nut

 

[Moby]

Zlatan after crying the whole draft bangs out that team.

 

[P-Nut]

The only places he's weak is full back and I've got no wingers good game

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Zlatan after crying the whole draft bangs out that team.

cracking 442, even with that moron at leftback.

btw was Gambetta a rightback? For no specific reason i think he was a centerback but its more guessing then stating.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

cracking 442, even with that moron at leftback.

btw was Gambetta a rightback? For no specific reason i think he was a centerback but its more guessing then stating.

A left half back who could play right half back as well. Played the 1950 WC final as a right half back

 

[Moby]

cracking 442, even with that moron at leftback.

btw was Gambetta a rightback? For no specific reason i think he was a centerback but its more guessing then stating.

He got Gambetta after Charlie Chaplin failed.

Yeah pretty much a fullback who could play on either side, with good marking skills.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Zlatan after crying the whole draft bangs out that team.

I can’t remember crying that much, I am playing 2 sheep so they were worth a cry

all the best @P-Nut

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

On the game, yea a terrific 4-4-2. Tough to vote against that.

 

[Enigma_87]

The only places he's weak is full back and I've got no wingers good game

And not that much attacking full backs either.
Really bad matchup as you have a good spine through the middle.

still Henke and Lineker fed by Zidane and Miramontes is who is that de Felipe guy as CB?

 

[Michaelf7777777]

A left half back who could play right half back as well. Played the 1950 WC final as a right half back

He played the "final" (technically the last match of the final pool) as a fullback as the Uruguayan's played the Verrou or Swiss Bolt formation in that game which was a 1-3-3-3 forerunner to Catenaccio

 

[P-Nut]

And not that much attacking full backs either.
Really bad matchup as you have a good spine through the middle.

Yeah not even going to debate it. Only interesting thing would be if I could have replaced O'Shea with a proper ball playing DM, Zidane would then have had the platform to cause all sorts of issues on sheer numbers

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

He played the "final" (technically the last match of the final pool) as a fullback as the Uruguayan's played the Verrou or Swiss Bolt formation in that game which was a 1-3-3-3 forerunner to Catenaccio

I think in that formation back in the day, centre backs were called fullbacks and the wide defenders/Midfielders were called half backs. I don't think he played in the centre. Feel free to correct me.

 

[Michaelf7777777]

In that final formation he played as a RB

 

[Zlatan 7]

Thanks, not much to say really if people have voted. Would be nice to have a little debate just to know where my weaknesss are, aside from full backs.

Thanks for the additional Gambetta info too, he was a tough one to look into when I’m not really knowing where to look.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Thanks, not much to say really if people have voted. Would be nice to have a little debate just to know where my weaknesss are, aside from full backs.

Nothing really stands out as a weakness tactically. You just need a bump in quality to catch up with the stronger teams. Apart from MVB, you lack a big impact player in the team. They are all great support players who fit each other well.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Thanks, not much to say really if people have voted. Would be nice to have a little debate just to know where my weaknesss are, aside from full backs.

Your team lacks someone who can run the game. Neither Seedorf nor Dunga can impose on a game. Workable yet underwhelming partnership.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Thanks both, yeah I see that, hopefully get chance to reinforce, looks like I may have got past round one for the first time and not on a technicality

 

[Chesterlestreet]

In that final formation he played as a RB

Yep, Andrade normally played on the right but was switched to the left for tactical reasons:

Gonzales
Gambetta Tejera Andrade​

Something like a "back four" with a "sweeper" of sorts - very unusual/innovative for the time and a forerunner - as you said above - of later defensive models.

 

[Enigma_87]

Thanks, not much to say really if people have voted. Would be nice to have a little debate just to know where my weaknesss are, aside from full backs.

Thanks for the additional Gambetta info too, he was a tough one to look into when I’m not really knowing where to look.

You need to upgrade both full backs for starters. For this game IMO you have the tactical advantage and the edge.

That front 6 looks good. Seedorf and Dunga is a complimentary pairing considering Dunga’s passing range and defensive game and Seedorf energy.

Beckham/ van Basten is a very viable route for goal.

Cantona would probably need upgrading as he isn’t very highly rated around here. Although to me is a very good fit stilistically for van Basten.

In order of necessities it’s full backs and CB though. Manolas probably won’t cut it in next round against a top tier CF.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Although to me is a very good fit stilistically for van Basten.

Agreed. In a 4-4-2 that's a nice combo.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

With regard to Gambetta, someone with time on their hands might want to look up Anto's remarks on him (on here): iirc he wasn't very solid defensively, more of an allrounder - the standout "pure" defender was Andrade who was, as said above, switched to the left for tactical reasons.

 

[Synco]

Cantona would probably need upgrading as he isn’t very highly rated around here. Although to me is a very good fit stilistically for van Basten.

Why is that so?

I think it's a bloody brilliant combo, and it's a bit of a downside of all-time drafts that setups like this are seen as problematic due to the lack of a grade A star player.

 

[Enigma_87]

Why is that so?

I think it's a bloody brilliant combo, and it's a bit of a downside of all-time drafts that setups like this are seen as problematic due to the lack of a grade A star player.

I have no idea tbh. He's rarely picked and whenever he is, usually has zero impact.

One of my favorite players ever. It's the demeanor, character, class, technique, was a brilliant player and deserves a lot of credit. To me it's combination of the lack of success in CL at the time for United and also the competition in his place that play a big role.

In a 4-4-2 he's a great fit and alongside van Basten would even more so highlight his strengths. Maybe in a sheep draft he can finally get some of his deserved credit.

 

[Synco]

In a 4-4-2 he's a great fit

Absolutely, just the player to provide creativity and goal threat in that AM/CF space.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Thanks, not much to say really if people have voted. Would be nice to have a little debate just to know where my weaknesss are, aside from full backs.

Thanks for the additional Gambetta info too, he was a tough one to look into when I’m not really knowing where to look.

You should look up some of Antohan's old posts on Gambetta. IIRC he regarded him quite highly. Your defence is the obvious area for improvement, and your central midfield will probably be seen as a relative weakness at some point soon if you come up against a strong three man midfield. Personally I think Dunga's match-controlling abilities are very underrated, but I do tend to somehow overlook Seedorf in drafts generally.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Cantona suffers from the "second striker" syndrome, I think.

Players who featured in the 4-4-2 variations that were popular for a long time (not least in English/British football), and who played the less "pure" striker-ish part in a two man combo up front, tend to be problematic: they're not poachers/goal machines and not easy to sell as playmakers/10s either.

You pretty much have to go for a particular setup in order to fit them rightly in - and that particular setup is usually limiting in a draft context.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Cantona for me was simply not that great enough. Great leader, very charismatic and of course our history would be very different without him. But wouldn't even be in my top 10 support strikers of all time. Possibly even lower. You need a really diluted draft for the King to have a great run.

Looks great in the setup here of course, but has to be upgraded eventually.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

But wouldn't even be in my top 10 support strikers of all time. Possibly even lower.

Hm - that's a discussion worth having. But not here.

However, you have a point - of course. He's more legendary than most for United fans, but he wasn't historically great as a player.

There was a "King Kenny versus The King" discussion on here some time ago. My opinion in said thread was that King Kenny was better - not an easy thing to say for a United fan, but it's true.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

IIRC he regarded him quite highly.

Tried searching for relevant comments just now - gave up, though.

But Anto did offer an opinion on Gambetta, I remember that - possibly in connection with several different drafts. I vaguely recall him commenting on someone fielding Gambetta against Garrincha - and, again, vaguely remember him concluding Gambetta was a poor fit for that match-up.

Which doesn't say much in itself (most would get roasted against Garrincha) - but the point was (as alluded to above) that Gambetta wasn't a rock solid defender (unlike Andrade, the nephew, who you could plausibly field as someone with a chance to keep Garrincha from running wild).

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

There was a "King Kenny versus The King" discussion on here some time ago. My opinion in said thread was that King Kenny was better - not an easy thing to say for a United fan, but it's true.

Spot on IMO.

 

[Jim Beam]

Always hard to talk about Cantona. All players in the draft are simply that, just football players. He is above that shit.

Wonderful combo with Van Basten here though. And that Dunga - Seedorf midfield is great. Dunga was a cracking player.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Thanks for all the comments, been an interesting read.
I totally agree with my defence, that’s my sheep street and like I said, I know nothing about Gambetta but I was struggling to find someone for that round.

I couldnt believe my luck getting mvb, I thought he’d fit perfect with Cantona and I had Beckham the same round. Beckham crossing for Van Basten seemed too good to turn down.

I was hesitant to use a 442 in a draft as I knew I was likely to be facing a 3 man midfield and face comments of being over run.

I’ll see what the reinforcement round brings

 

[harms]

With regard to Gambetta, someone with time on their hands might want to look up Anto's remarks on him (on here): iirc he wasn't very solid defensively, more of an allrounder - the standout "pure" defender was Andrade who was, as said above, switched to the left for tactical reasons.

I think there was something about his runs... I seem to remember that a certain elements of the game were named after him in Uruguay, although I may be wrong.

Edit: now I'm not sure if that's a good thing

José. Uruguay played pretty much the exact same formation with both Andrades though, the difference is a stylistic one in that Victor was more defensively focused (as opposed to Gambetta, whose name is today the common term for dodge in South America, i.e. gambetear = to dodge).