Is there any way back?

Yagami

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Like Van Gaal or Mourinho?
They were both completely past it.

One thing we haven't done after Fergie is hire a modern, progressive manager. Moyes was clueless, the aforementioned two were past it, and Ole is out of his depth.

All we need to do is hire the right man. Someone who's with the times.
 

Yagami

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As long as Woodward is involved there's only so much any manager will be able to do.

I can't figure out where I stand with Ole because it's impossible for anyone to do anything meaningful in his position without having someone competent above them.
Didn't Liverpool think the same with their owners? Then they hired a progressive manager in Rodgers and the tide started turning.
 

Devil may care

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We played a team today who are basically the answer to this question, hopefully it doesn't take us as long.
 

caid

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There is but its miles away. We have no bench worth talking about and our first team probably needs half a dozen signings to compete.
 

Mockney

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Didn't Liverpool think the same with their owners? Then they hired a progressive manager in Rodgers and the tide started turning.
And crucially, sacked him as soon as a better, more accomplished alternative became available, despite the enormous good will Rodgers had built with the Liverpool fans.... fans so desperate for success that a best selling book was written about Rodgers’ noble heroic failure!

And yet somehow they still managed to be less cloyingly sentimental than us!
 

Ludens the Red

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I'm not sure though. Firstly it's hard to determine what a "great" manager is. Pep wasn't a great manager when he took over at Barcelona. Klopp wasn't a guarantee even when he came in at Liverpool, and outside of those two, there is no one else you can put in the "great" bracket. You're down to picking from the likes of Pochettino or Jose...managers who've failed at clubs with similar or less expectation than United, or who you know have a short shelf life and come with a guaranteed fallout/car crash ending. Basically, not great managers. Either that or you take a chance on an unknown as we have done.
You think Pochettino failed at Spurs? really? I can't even fathom the idea. If you look at every single aspect of Pochettinos reign at Spurs, they literally improved everywhere, everywhere, there isn't a single aspect where they went backwards under him. Obviously his last season at the club was his weakest but he still achieved two things that there is absolutely no chance of happening this season at United under Ole and that's 4th spot and a CL Final. Considering we've also finished outside the top 4 in four of the last six seasons that overall performance is hardly something we can turn our noses up at.

League finishes - Between 4th and 6th and lower before Poch - Top three three times in a row under Poch, not outside the top 4 in any season bar his first. We've finished 2nd once in six seasons (might as well say seven because we aint finishing that high this season)

Style of play - It's strange how the anti Poch people focus purely on his last 18 months at Spurs, completely disregarding 36 months prior to that of Spurs being one of the best teams to watch in the league. We've basically been an unwatchable team for about 70 of the 76 months since SIr Alex stepped down.

Players - The list is endless, Walker, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Rose, Eriksen, Ali, Dembele, Kane, Son, all became top PL players under his guidance. How many players have improved after signing for United post Fergie? One? two? can't be more than three.

All this achieved with basically a weekly wage cap and a net spend less than teams currently playing in the Championship and currently in the bottom three of the PL.

I get it he didn't win a trophy at Spurs and at United he would be expected to win trophies but at Spurs, how many trophies of any relevance have they won in the last 30 years? two league cups. When judging a manager you can't look at anything in isolation, you can't pick specific time frames that suit the argument, you can't apply the expectancy of a club like United to Spurs because it's worlds apart, you have to look at the entire reign and picture. You look at the club he's at and what level they were at prior to that manager being at the club and like I said, there isn't a single aspect Spurs did not improve at under Poch.

There is absolutely no way and nothing in Ole's managerial history to suggest Ole could have done what Poch did at Spurs, with the same restraints. Absolutely no way.

This isn't me saying Poch is the answer to everything and that he will 100% bring this club back to the top of the elite but if I were hedging my bets on who would do better and if i was in charge of the club and had to make a choice I would pick Poch 99 times out of 100 over Ole. The fact is the board should never have given Ole the job full time, they should never have put him in this position in the same way we shouldn't put other club legends who are not capable of turning around the club in this position.

I also don't buy into this idea that we need a few catastrophic seasons before we can be half decent again, that's nonsense, not saying you said this but it is a general theme making the rounds. I don't expect us to overtake city and Liverpool but this United team needs a proper coach, who can instill some intent and purpose with a clear tactical style. United need to be finishing in 3rd/4th minimum over the next couple of seasons, these things are achievable. Pochettino has proven he can do this and so for me it''s a no brainer. He knows the league, his stock is high, he's respected in football. These things matter and can make a difference. Ole has been here for 13 months and whilst there are a few positives I still scratch my head on a regular basis as to what exactly our team are doing on the pitch (you yourself in the post match thread couldnt work out where anyone was playing) How is that ok?. Then we start looking at things like set pieces and the handling of injuries and I'm just left thinking, what on earth is Ole doing here? And i hate it, constantly having to post things Ole's doing wrong, almost feels like betrayal but it's that fecking cnut Woodward who has put him in this unwinnable position.
 
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Eddy_JukeZ

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It'll be a while before we seriously contend again.

We are so stuck on old ways instead of moving forward with the times.

We hired 2 past it world class managers in LVG and Jose. And since they didn't work, we should give up on hiring world class managers. It's nonsense.

The Glazers/Woodward are a major problem. Though if they somehow lucked into a great manager, that problem would be lessened.
 

Mockney

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I can't say for certain that Poch is the answer... I have a lot of doubts about him personally... but he at least has a discernibly progressive coaching style, evidenced over two different Premier League spells... Not necessarily good enough to be the ideal fantasy manager of Manchester United, but ironically a lot more palatable an option since Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has lowered the standards and expectations for the job so dramatically, that anyone with an even vaguely exciting reputation can be seen as a potential saviour!

Obviously the biggest issue is Woodward and the Glazers. We all know that... There are a litany of talented, progressive modern young managers out there, which a well run club with a hierarchy of footballing people would be able to identify, rather than relying on low balling whoever is the online tabloid flavour du jour that week.... But at the same time, none of this is an excuse to ignore just how horrendously far our standards have fallen in just a meagre year of Solskjaer's tenure... We sacked Jose after a 2 goal deficit loss at Anfield proved unacceptable, and yet here we (or at least some of us) are, a mere year later, lavishing praise (excuses) on the team for such a valiant performance in unfavourable conditions, after another 2 goal deficit loss at Anfield... What the fecking feckity feck!?
 

bucky

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I can't say for certain that Poch is the answer... I have a lot of doubts about him personally... but he at least has a discernibly progressive coaching style, evidenced over two different Premier League spells... Not necessarily good enough to be the ideal fantasy manager of Manchester United, but ironically a lot more palatable an option since Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has lowered the standards and expectations for the job so dramatically, that anyone with an even vaguely exciting reputation can be seen as a potential saviour!

Obviously the biggest issue is Woodward and the Glazers. We all know that... There are a litany of talented, progressive modern young managers out there, which a well run club with a hierarchy of footballing people would be able to identify, rather than relying on low balling whoever is the online tabloid flavour du jour that week.... But at the same time, none of this is an excuse to ignore just how horrendously far our standards have fallen in just a meagre year of Solskjaer's tenure... We sacked Jose after a 2 goal deficit loss at Anfield proved unacceptable, and yet here we (or at least some of us) are, a mere year later, lavishing praise (excuses) on the team for such a valiant performance in unfavourable conditions, after another 2 goal deficit loss at Anfield... What the fecking feckity feck!?
It wasn't that long ago that we made fun of Klopp for blaming the wind, when results weren't going his way. Managers say stupid things all the time, when poor results come around, even the best ones like Guardiola or Klopp. Has Ole actually lowered expectations though? Genuinely asking. I just don't think he's doing, what Mourinho was doing with his football heritage stuff, for example. Same with the standards bit, they had fallen before Ole arrived.

For the record I think we should sack him and hire Pochettino, since we aren't going to get Rose or Nagelsmann, but I also think that there are genuinely reasons outside of Ole's control that would make it difficult even for the best managers or a better manager like Pochettino, to be successful in our current state.
 
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Bebestation

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Bring in Brendan Rodgers.

He'd come, he's progressive, has a point to prove, builds great squads, plays good footy.

Do it. Do it now FFS.
I'd be on this.

I get scared of managers like Pochettino who are good but can be set in few tactics that don't change that need changing after a whilst.

Do you reckon Rodgers would come in the summer after one season considering Leicester would be in the CL?
 

ravi2

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They were both completely past it.

One thing we haven't done after Fergie is hire a modern, progressive manager. Moyes was clueless, the aforementioned two were past it, and Ole is out of his depth.

All we need to do is hire the right man. Someone who's with the times.
It'll be a while before we seriously contend again.

We are so stuck on old ways instead of moving forward with the times.

We hired 2 past it world class managers in LVG and Jose. And since they didn't work, we should give up on hiring world class managers. It's nonsense.

The Glazers/Woodward are a major problem. Though if they somehow lucked into a great manager, that problem would be lessened.
Even if we hire poch or another progressive manager , he will still have to contend with Ed and Mike Judge which means missing crucial transfer targets and incompetence at the board level and then we are back at square one. I do not think it is as simple as hiring a new manager at this point.
 

Red_toad

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Bloated squad? :lol:
must be those 3 central defenders who are permanently injured who are causing the bloat. As I just don’t see it anywhere else.
fullbacks = 1 experienced and younger understudy.
Midfield picks itself as no cover.
Striker = no cover
Right wing = no cover
No10 = 3 players of not sufficient quality who somehow never get injured.
left wing = our striker or right winger
 

Strelok

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Tbh if I'm Poch I'd rather not come here now unless I'm too desperate, which is not the case imo.

We're basically a new Spurs of old with a worse squad and worse structure at the top. Why bury his career here ?
 

Sad Chris

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The pathetic state of the threads and the moaning on the Caf make me want to stop supporting United more than the performances on the pitch, in management and at board level.

At least all three of the above are active as opposed to the never ending whining bunch of rubbish that gets repeated over and over and over again without adding anything of value.

So many great new approaches and insights. Haven’t heard any of the complaints before. Fantastic stuff, really makes me enjoy spending my time here. Especially after losses. Thanks for sharing.
 

Mockney

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It wasn't that long ago that we made fun of Klopp for blaming the wind, when results weren't going his way. Managers say stupid things all the time, when poor results come around, even the best ones like Guardiola or Klopp. Has Ole actually lowered expectations though? Genuinely asking. I just don't think he's doing, what Mourinho was doing with his football heritage stuff, for example. Same with the standards bit, they had fallen before Ole arrived.
Yes, he has. Quantifiably. Klopp had tangibly improved Liverpool by the end of even his first half season. He got a team who'd finished their last season losing 6-1 to Stoke, fighting back from 3 goals down to win a Europa Semi-Final.. A trait that would become a hallmark of his tenure (and indeed the fulcrum of any successful team - see; Fergie Time, etc)... Even before he'd won anything, and Jose was at his peak period here, winning cups and finishing ahead of them, I remember quite vividly how sanguine most Liverpool fans on here were (perhaps the likes of @Dumbstar @B20 @Klopper76 @RobinLFC etc can back me up? )... And how nonchalantly positive they were about him, due to the way he'd got them playing in such a short space of time.... And how thoroughly they continued to thrash Arsenal. Which is basically the unspoken measurement of quality amongst the proper elite teams, and has been for several years now. You won't be considered a genuine big club until you've comprehensively thrashed Arsenal at least once. It's essentially the secret handshake of the G14...
 

bucky

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Yes, he has. Quantifiably. Klopp had tangibly improved Liverpool by the end of even his first half season. He got a team who'd finished their last season losing 6-1 to Stoke, fighting back from 3 goals down to win a Europa Semi-Final.. A trait that would become a hallmark of his tenure (and indeed the fulcrum of any successful team - see; Fergie Time, etc)... Even before he'd won anything, and Jose was at his peak period here, winning cups and finishing ahead of them, I remember quite vividly how sanguine most Liverpool fans on here were (perhaps the likes of @Dumbstar @B20 @Klopper76 @RobinLFC etc can back me up? )... And how nonchalantly positive they were about him, due to the way he'd got them playing in such a short space of time.... And how thoroughly they continued to thrash Arsenal. Which is basically the unspoken measurement of quality amongst the proper elite teams, and has been for several years now. You won't be considered a genuine big club until you've comprehensively thrashed Arsenal at least once. It's essentially the secret handshake of the G14...
I meant with his words not with his skill as a coach or manager. Not sure how he's lowering expectations with the results on the pitch. Quite clearly the majority of United fans think he should go and I am one of them. Seems to me that a lot of fans still know what the expectations and standards should be.
 

Rhyme Animal

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
I'd be on this.

I get scared of managers like Pochettino who are good but can be set in few tactics that don't change that need changing after a whilst.

Do you reckon Rodgers would come in the summer after one season considering Leicester would be in the CL?
Depends what backing he was offered by whoever owns Utd come the Summer...

If he was offered proper backing from the huge funds that Utd generates itself, then yes, I think the draw would be too big for him to resist.

If, however, he was offered a 'yes-man' package, as Ole has clearly taken - where he gets a fraction of the club's income and has to go through unstoppable-moron Woodward then no, I don't think so.

I think it's important too for Utd fans to note that at this point, working with Woodward / Glazers is going to be something that ambitious managers are increasingly wary of.

If I was a manager on the up, at a club that had CL footy and was doing well, I'd be very, very wary of leaving that to work under that regime.

The name and prestige of Manchester United will always glimmer and hold a romance, but the cretinous, anti-football regime running the club into the ground are, at this point, definitely a glaring issue with the club.

But, in short, yes - if he was given contractual assurances about backing and not dealing with that banker.
 

Zarlak

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I'd be on this.

I get scared of managers like Pochettino who are good but can be set in few tactics that don't change that need changing after a whilst.

Do you reckon Rodgers would come in the summer after one season considering Leicester would be in the CL?
I doubt we're going to hire an ex Liverpool manager.
 

ISMAIL-007

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I just can't see a way back if am being honest, we need a major overhaul to repair all the damage meaning we need a new owner and the change in club structure.
As long as the current regime is still in charge we should just get used to mediocrity.
 

Green Arrow

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The structure of the club needs to change from top to bottom, boardroom, coaching etc.
The club needs serious investment from the stadium itself, the training ground, and the squad itself. This squad cannot carry on the way it is we all know that. This window we might get Bruno or we might sign some short deals or might not get anyone.
Bottom line is the owners need to invest heavily or they might as well leave in the summer if they don't sort this mess out otherwise we can stay a mid table team for the foreseeable future with them in charge.
 
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ranxerox

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To me it’s all about leadership at the top of the club. No way in hell that what’s happened to us since Fergie left would have been allowed to happen at Real Madrid or Barca.
 

UpWithRivers

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One DOF - Campos and the right manager and we will be back. Will it happen? Probably not.
 

RedIan

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First off there is no Devine right too success, being a big club means little... many on here have only experienced success under the Fergie reign.. we were average to crap for many years before his management. We are average to crap again now fergie has gone and have been for 7 years.

Yes we can recover, we are 5th in the league and still a chance of a top 4 finish. We are way off Liverpool and city atm - but 2 more transfer windows with 4 or 5 top quality signings and we can be a strong candidates to challenge them.
Whether you are pro Ole or not, he is going no where for at least another 18 months. Also, like it or not, Woodward is going no where.

We really need a top level director of football to oversee the football side and not a bunch of clueless business men.... then the correct recruitment.
 

bsCallout

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I am confused. What is with all these reactions after losing 2-0 to possibly the best team in the world at their ground with three of our most important players missing?

Now I could understand this 2 months ago with the trajectory we were on but what is it that has suddenly made things that much worse so as to receive this reaction?

We knew we had to get rid of the deadwood first, that's happened/happening.
We wanted the youth to start getting opportunities, and that's happening.
Our front 3 are all producing their best numbers to date.
 

DomesticTadpole

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We might be in top 4 this time next month. Chelsea play arsenal Leicester us and spurs.

Season is better than last in many ways. People have lost sight of how far back we're coming from
We could be, but how often have we taken the chance when it has been handed to us?
 

Ludens the Red

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We might be in top 4 this time next month. Chelsea play arsenal Leicester us and spurs.

Season is better than last in many ways. People have lost sight of how far back we're coming from
How far back were coming from? Do people get paid to say these things?
We were 2nd two seasons ago. We were 6th when Mourinho was sacked and ended the season 6th. We’re now 5th, just how exactly is that coming from far back?
Unless you mean from Sir Alex days?
 

SER19

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How far back were coming from? Do people get paid to say these things?
We were 2nd two seasons ago. We were 6th when Mourinho was sacked and ended the season 6th. We’re now 5th, just how exactly is that coming from far back?
Unless you mean from Sir Alex days?
I have an answer to this on page 6
 

izec

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There is. We need competent people on the football side of things and in coaching to revamp the football structure of the club and the staff, players as well as the medical department. There are plenty of positions that need to be replaced on the football side of things especially.

We wont get the new top manager that will transform us on his own. So we need more changes for that, it relies on Ed to see that and start doing something, with hiring a director of football/sporting director type of guy to revamp our whole strategy and football side of things, starting with players/transfers/staff/manager/coaches. One leads to another. I wouldnt hire just a guy for transfers, i would hire a guy that knows how to get clubs to top clubs, someone revamping the whole structure. Someone that knows and has done it, how to implement and build a successfull club basically on the football side of things, with a clear strategy. My nomination would go to Ralf Rangnick, he is available, successful, passionate and experienced. And he knows football and clubs through various roles.
 

RedCurry

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We need management of the club to change immediately. Woodward has grossly failed since taking over as the CEO. If we fail to qualify for CL this season, I have a suspicion that he will be let go. Surely, Glazers aren't dumb enough to let an incompetent man destroy their wealth.